Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Is piracy really hurting the pc game industry or is it something else?

Last response: in Video Games
Share

Which do you think hurts the gaming industry more?

Total: 58 votes (13 blank votes)

  • Pirating
  • 18 %
  • Crappy boring games.
  • 56 %
  • Hackers.
  • 7 %
  • Games that dont even work and cant be refunded.
  • 20 %
November 2, 2008 1:05:09 AM

READ THE TOPIC BEFORE VOTING PLEASE!

I think piracy is the least of the worries for the pc games.

First of all, its so much easier to point the finger at the other guy than yourself (gaming industry), they blame people pirating their games, well i say make it so people cant cheat and make sure the game actually works.

Crysis isnt really popular because its BORING! Bioshock and fallout 3 DONT WORK! Crysis multiplayer PEOPLE CHEAT AND HACK!
I can name other games and reasons its not piracy its their laziness and stupidity.


Heres my post on another topic:

"Now days i dont think anything is wrong with pirating for 1 simple reason...... The game just might not run on your PC! Bioshock and Fallout 3 DONT WORK on my PC! im glad i didnt put $50 down on fallout 3, i bought Bioshock and couldnt get past the first mission w/o a constant crash. So now i pirate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy games to make sure if they work, far cry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Cry 2 works just fine i will be buying a new copy within a week, as for fallout 3 and the THOUSANDS of other people that cant get it to work.........NEVER BUYING IT TILL ITS FIXED!

Pirating is the last thing killing PC games, you can pirate xbox360 and PS3 games JUST as easily. BUT what really is killing the PC games is:

1. **** HACKERS! Cant stand playing online games and someone cheats than they say their pro and call you a noob.
2. THE **** GAME NOT WORKING PERIOD! why would i pay $50 for a non refundable game that doesn't even work?
3. THE GAME SUCKS! lets face it Crysis sucked, looks good on a super computer but wow you get like 6 guns to pick from, its big time repetitive.
4. This is where piracy comes into play, all the above hurt alot more than piracy.


ALSO! What about 3rd world countries, they cant afford $50 for a game, at $5 a day thats 10 days of pay and 10 days of no food, WE ARE NO BETTER THAN ANY OTHER BEING, just because we have money doesn't make us better than someone in a 3rd world country, they deserve commodities and luxuries just as much as we do."


After writing all this i want to hear what you think.
November 2, 2008 1:41:16 AM

Quote:
After writing all this i want to hear what you think

1. Stop sucking at gaming. I'm a crappy FPS player and even I can hang on a lot of multiplayer servers.
2. Fix your computer or pay somebody who can.
3. You seem to hate every good PC game out there. Go buy a console.
4. Nothing is Killing PC gaming. But there are more lazy morons out there who either can't figure out how to game on a PC and just want to pop a disc into a shiny box and not have to think about anything more complicated other than "What's d'shoot button?".
November 2, 2008 2:01:59 AM

1. I dont suck at FPS games, im always number 1 and 2 on COD4, just because you are noob at games doesn't mean you should assume everyone else does. BTW what does skill have to do with it? Please use that brain of your before posting (if you have one).

2. It's fixed works perfectly on all but 2 games.
3. wow i didnt know the pc gaming world consisted of like 6 games.
4. Yeah games that dont work and cheaters are killing it.

Feel free to give a real response with more than 2 seconds of thinking.
November 2, 2008 2:29:44 AM

If your 1 or 2 at COD4 then why are you bitching about people cheating. Obviously you care way too much about it. But in reality multiplayer is the top attraction in PC gaming. Games with good-great multiplayer sell better, so I don't think online cheating is hurting PC gaming. Not to mention that cheating is much less of a problem today than it was in years past.

If BioShock is crashing on your system, it's your system not the game. You can get defensive about that or you can take my free advice and try to figure out what's wrong with your system.

If your argument is that one game, Crysis, "sucks" and that's killing PC gaming, well that's just a stupid idea. Crysis was actually a pretty well received and fairly decent selling game. It just didn't live up to all the hype. But I'm not going to argue about why you didn't like the game. It's just not a good argument as to why PC gaming is dying (which I don't even think that's true though).

Your reasons for what you say is killing gaming are just weak and juvenile. Throw in the fact that you admit to using those lame justifications to pirate games just proves that piracy is the real problem. If you really want to prove your point just stop playing PC games all together.
November 2, 2008 8:15:42 AM

What if you don't think the Gaming Industry is hurting.
Prime Example: I invested $1950.00 into a certain company (not giving it out but it isn't to hard to figure out either). On Friday I recieved a $600.00 Dividend Check and I have so far recieved two substantial Dividend checks since I first invested into them.
This Gaming Company is the highest paying Dividend Company in the little list of companies that I have invested in since I first started. The only other one being higher is the one that just recieved 80 Billion from the U.S. Goverment (whoop for 52% Dividend Returns).
So what can I take from this?
CEO's who lead their companies to ruin are to blame for their company failing. Maybe it was to much of an ambitous project from the start like Hellgate London when it should of been a more scaled back approach.
Maybe the games the company was producing was seen as something that was just milking a cow that had long been shot and was seen as such by it's customers.
There are quite a few companies who have faced simular problems and overcame them to become succesful. Wildtangent, Blizzard, Codemasters, Valve, Stardock who have faced the same problems as the above companies and yet they are pulling in incrediable profits. They put a solid product each and every time and customers do reward companies that have a customer first feel to them.
Then you have companies like Lucas arts who feel they can piss on their loyal customers and put out crap products all because they have a "Brand" that they can milk. This just makes people want to Pirate their crap.
Other companies have put out such an array of unreliable work along with their incrediable pieces of work that they don't understand why they are having problems that other simular companies do not have. The problem then becomes the customer and not the company.
We also have a certain company who only reports a partial portion of the total income of a market and this manipulates the public into believing there is a problem when there isn't one.
So my answer isn't even in your poll. The PC Gaming Industry is thriving and always has been. It has had it's moments of dips and rises but it is still rising and will continue to do so. The companies who continue to put themselves first will continue to fall and the companies who put their customers first will continue to thrive.
If one thing is to be noted it's PC Gamers are a remarkably loyal customer base that should be rewarded and made first on every company list. The Pirates will move on but the PC Gamer will always be here making sure that the good companies continue to thrive and the bad ones fall.
There is nothing that is hurting the Gaming Industry. If anything it is stronger and better than it ever has been before.
November 2, 2008 10:13:19 AM

Cuddles has already expressed many of my own thoughts in his post. I just want to add one more example. When Neverwinter Nights was released in 2001, it was a somewhat buggy game and probably didn't sell too many copies. However, Bioware and the community have been very dedicated to patching and polishing the game. The final official patch arrived in summer 2008, seven years from the release. The game has sold seven million copies so far, mainly because of this long-term dedication. Unfortunately, many companies release a game and abandon post-production support and development too soon. In the worst cases a company makes a game in a hurry, makes a few patches for less than a year after release and then forgets about the game.

November 2, 2008 10:28:26 AM

I forgot to mention the example with Neverwinter Nights 2. The game was developed by Obsidian. They received many resources from Neverwinter Nights 1 from Bioware. Basically, they just created a new graphics engine for the game and adapted some of the resources directly from NWN 1. Overall it was a sloppy job, and you can see it in the number of gamers who decided to stay with NWN 1 instead of moving to NWN 2. Especially the multiplayer part of NWN 2 has many various problems and stupid solutions.
Sometimes it feels like Bioware have treated NWN 1 as an "own baby", whereas Obsidian have treated NWN 2 as a "stepchild". :D 

November 2, 2008 11:49:07 AM

The reason that the PC market isn't as large as it used to be is due to cost, in my opinion. An xbox 360 can now be picked up for as little as £100 or £140 with a Hard Drive. Compare this to a £700 gaming computer and you can see why many people are moving to consoles for their fix.

I'm lucky myself in that i'm quite well off with a decent job and steady income. This gives me a large amount of disposable income to spend on things i like, such as PCs, Stereos and motorbikes. However a lot of people, especially during the current financial crisis, really can't justify spending large amounts of money on a gaming PC whereas a Console is much cheaper.

This theory could be very wrong, but it's just something i've been thinking about recently. However i do believe it is hard to say that PC gaming is "Dying". Services like Steam etc prove this. Just look at the amount of people playing games on Steam at any one point or all the people (11 million) paying to play World of Warcraft. However there is a flipside to this arguement - most of these gamers are playing games that're really quite old, such as CSS and World of Warcraft rather than buying newer products which supports the industry.

I'm probably going to read this back later and realize my analysis of the industry was absolutly terrible, ah well! Bloody hangovers...
November 2, 2008 12:13:44 PM

Giving the OP a hard time aside, I agree with Cuddles and Morton that PC gaming isn't dying or really even suffering. Actually I agree that it's doing pretty well. But I do still think that piracy does affect the way game developers/publishers think about games and game sales. You can argue about how many sales piracy has cost gaming, but DRM is an obvious response to piracy and most agree that they don't want it. Another trend has been smaller developers and publishers getting swallowed up by bigger companies like EA, possibly in part to protect themselves against piracy. Companies are also less willing to take a risk on new games, favoring more homogenues titles instead. It's not all caused by piracy but piracy still plays a big part.

So maybe piracy isn't "killing" PC gaming, but it's still doing harm. A better question might be "How much better would PC gaming be without piracy?".
November 2, 2008 12:20:20 PM

quantumsheep said:
The reason that the PC market isn't as large as it used to be is due to cost, in my opinion. An xbox 360 can now be picked up for as little as £100 or £140 with a Hard Drive. Compare this to a £700 gaming computer and you can see why many people are moving to consoles for their fix.

I've never liked that reasoning for two reasons. Most people who have a console also have a PC that is used for things other than gameing. So even if it's a bottom of the line PC it's still a cost. Anything over that basic cost is the actual cost needed to game with a PC ( see what i mean?). People always qoute a price above whats needed to be spent to get an experince better than a console.
I do agree though that a load of PC games only seem to get a patch or two and then are pretty much unsupported, even when bugs are still present.
As for Crysis, I think all the "you need to spend £2000 on a PC to play it " hurt it's sales and remember isn't it 70% of a games sales/income are in the first 3-6 months after release(not counting the online pay to play types). Them numbers are probably wrong but it's a high proportion in a short amount of time.
November 2, 2008 1:18:11 PM

Its been stated in several magazines that piracy numbers would be less then 10% of total sales. I dont know if that means anything to anyone here but its not killing the market thats for sure. Grocery and retail are about that on average per year as well for losses.
November 2, 2008 3:31:40 PM

Mosswalker said:
Its been stated in several magazines that piracy numbers would be less then 10% of total sales. I dont know if that means anything to anyone here but its not killing the market thats for sure. Grocery and retail are about that on average per year as well for losses.


The entertainment industry executives blame everyone else but themselves for failures. Piracy is the perfect scapegoat. Hey, I bet all pirates are Witches/Communists too. :whistle: 
November 2, 2008 6:24:55 PM

I think all you guys speak for the computer literate gaming community and I agree with the thrust of whats been said.

I am not very computer literate but love to play games, its like my car, I can drive it like a demon and from reading and forums can usually diagnose whats wrong with it, but would never attempt to fix it myself.

I have just invested in a rig to play new games and have spend ages thinking over what to put on my xmass list for games. The industry might be doing well but gone are the days when you could buy a computer buy a game put them together and then play.

Will it work on vista, is a 64bit system gonna cash it, can my new rig play any of my old games (without who knows what patches or running as an administrator or something), What the hell is the deal with DRM and the like.

The industry may be serving you computer literate guys and gals well but for someone who loves games but just wants to be able to buy a computer and a game and without having to arse around doing who knows what then install and be able to play it its a frigging nightmare.

to return to the car analagy its like only being able to buy a car if you can personally change out the starter motor and having to learn to do this in a different way everytime yoy drive somewhere new.

Before anyone says I don't want an xbox or similar I like computers and work at home a lot on one (doing simple things like typing).

I think the industry must be losing a shed load of cash from potential customers who are frankly a little scared of spending cash they have to save for on a game they might not be able to get to work, I know I am, and I don't want to have to pay the same amount again to get someone to get it to work for me, and i'm not old and stupid but with 2 kids a PhD to finish etc I don't have the time to learn what I perhaps need to know and don't know why I should have to put so much time in when I have bought the game and computer and just want them to work...is that so unreasonable.
November 2, 2008 9:15:12 PM

Consoles aren't really any cheaper than they ever were, and I remember paying $3500 for a 486DX2/66 with 8MB of RAM. Screaming machine indeed, I could run two BBS nodes, have a third tossing mail, and be running Aces of the Pacific, all under Windows 3.1.

At the same time, AoP required 611kb of conventional RAM be available (with the sound, mouse, and other drivers loaded in the window), my PAS sound card used two DMA channels and three IRQ's, while the two modems took up two more.. my mouse had an interrupt..
That wasn't an easy configuration, and any new game had to be configured to work within it.

Today, the bleeding edge games continue to push hardware limits and drive hardware sales more than any other software category, they always require something more. This is why publishers used to get money from chipmakers to help with costs. I'm not sure if that's gone away as profit margins have been squeezed.

In the end though, there are probably a lot more people like jackdog who don't care to spend a lot of time working on their computer to be able to play on their computer, when they can just play on a console with more than adequate graphics and audio.

Instant gratification is the core of our commercial economy, is it not?
November 3, 2008 9:05:59 AM

I'm sure Jackdog has a point - but my personal experience does make me wonder if it's a little exaggerated.

I've never had any config issues with a Steam game (and I have about 70) - I buy it, I download it, I play it. Steam has milked me for far more cash than I would have normally spent on games - it's so simple and well put together, buying is a doddle and the convenience factor is as good or better than a console.

I've only had one hardware config issue in the last year or so - crappy 4870 drivers, but no extreme tech knowledge required. Downloaded lastest official drivers, used them to set clock & fan speeds, job done until the proper fixed drivers are released. Being able to use Google effectively these days really does let you get out of almost any game-related issue anyway.

My hardware in the past year has changed from X2 to Phenom, GPU from 7900 to 8800GT to 4850 to 4870. I don't do anything special apart from not downloading every toolbar junk on offer and I stick on XP-P as I like to play a few older games.

I too have been gaming on PCs since the Doom days (when I finally admitted the PC was better than my Amiga :)  ) - if you look after your PC, it will run just fine. To go back to the car analogy - if you filled it up with 5 tons of free crap from every petrol station you visit, don't be suprised if it accellerates like a dog, you can't see out of it and it falls off the road when you try to corner :D 
November 3, 2008 4:17:23 PM

purplerat said:
Companies are also less willing to take a risk on new games, favoring more homogenues titles instead. It's not all caused by piracy but piracy still plays a big part.

So maybe piracy isn't "killing" PC gaming, but it's still doing harm. A better question might be "How much better would PC gaming be without piracy?".


There's already an answer to that question if we just look at PC gaming involving massive multiplayer online games. MMOGs have monthly fees and account keys, so there's much less piracy in that gaming sector. Still, many companies working on such games are not willing to take much risks either, sticking to (dull) old familiar game features.
November 3, 2008 5:10:12 PM

Quote:
There's already an answer to that question if we just look at PC gaming involving massive multiplayer online games. MMOGs have monthly fees and account keys, so there's much less piracy in that gaming sector. Still, many companies working on such games are not willing to take much risks either, sticking to (dull) old familiar game features.


I'm not saying that piracy causes developers to stick with old ideas that have been tested and proven rather than taking risks, but it cetainly encourages them to do so. MMOs however are a competely different beast because they rely on a dedicated base continuing to play the same game for as long as possible. What good would it do Blizzard to release a completely different MMO from WoW? They'd be eating directly into their own subscriber base. With standard games that's not really a problem. Blizzard released WarCraft 2, then took a very different route with Star Craft. Even after that when they went back to War Craft 3 they still mixed up the gameplay quite a bit from the previous title. You can't really do that with an MMO without the risk of hurting youself even if the game is a success, and maybe even more so if it is.
Either way I still think it's hard to argue that PC gaming would be better off if piracy was not an issue.
November 3, 2008 5:49:08 PM

it is a mixture of all of them

DRM hit first, as developers assumed that people would pirate (while there are a small group who will always pirate)

DRM leads to piracy, which leads to stronger DRM which leads to even more piracy as legit customers move to piracy to avoid the DRM

many new games are very short and cost a lot and you cant get your money back if they suck, this makes people less willing to spend money on games, as when a item cost $50-60 you don't take risks in seeing if it is good or not

Games like CSS used to be fun but whats the point in playing when theres always at least 1 jerk who starts shooting you from under the map or uses a aim bot or uses a hitbox hack

jedi academy was well worth the money, good long gameplay and great multiplayer especially with the ja+ mod and the extra maps, which extended the life of the game by about 2 years

then it went down hill due to a big that allows users to do custom attacks, for example, a user will use the red saber stance but will do something called fanning which allows the person to attack extremely fast, faster than the blue stance, so they can pull off 10 hits in the time it takes you to do 1 hit which basically means if they hit you, it is a 1 hit kill due to the speed of the attacks, the game is no fun anymore and almost no one plays it because of players who use those attacks

most multiplayer games have annoying players like this and not much is done to fix it. there many websites that have aimbots, wallhacks, map hacks and other items up for download and are not detected by punk buster. and no matter how many times you report those sites to punkbuster, all you get is a generic reply and nothing gets done


some games are extremely buggy and almost useless and because the DRM makes it impossible to get your money back, theres no motivation to risk $50-60 on a game that has a chance of not working
November 3, 2008 6:26:12 PM

quantumsheep said:
The reason that the PC market isn't as large as it used to be is due to cost, in my opinion. An xbox 360 can now be picked up for as little as £100 or £140 with a Hard Drive. Compare this to a £700 gaming computer and you can see why many people are moving to consoles for their fix.



What makes you think the market isn't as large as it once was? From the evidence I've seen it's just as good as it's always been. A couple of developers say they don't want to work for the PC anyway namely Peter Molynuex and Epic, well I'm sorry but when was the last time either of them had a decent game out on the PC? Peter Molyneux for all of his past hits is frankly past it and out of touch with his audience and Epic is a company that really has not produced the goods for the PC for a few years as well.
November 3, 2008 7:04:06 PM

Quote:
DRM hit first, as developers assumed that people would pirate (while there are a small group who will always pirate)
DRM leads to piracy, which leads to stronger DRM which leads to even more piracy as legit customers move to piracy to avoid the DRM


That's such a stupid statement. Ask yourself this question. If DRM disappeared would there still be piracy? Of course and probably more of it. Any small amount of piracy caused by DRM is offset by the small amount that DRM prevents. But if you did the reverse and completely eliminated piracy would there still be DRM? No why would there be?

Secondly why do you keep on talking about games costing $50-$60? Do you live somewhere outside the US where games cost more or are you just lying to make your case sound better? Top tier big name titles sell for 49.99. That's the upper price range for PC games not including special editions. But there are still plenty of titles that come out less than $50. Crysis Warhead was only $29, WoW WotLK (although an expansion) $39 and a lot of second tier comes come out in the $30-$40 range. Factor in money saved on presales (like Steam's 10% off) and the price drop that most games get in the first couple months and the average PC game cost is probably well below $40. Compare that to PC game prices 10/20 years ago and factor in inflation and PC games have never been cheaper. Cost of games is a lame argument for both piracy and any percieved down trend in PC gaming.
November 3, 2008 7:44:43 PM

consoles are very expensive compared to pcs

on a console, lets base it on the current prices

xbox 360, $260

xbox live $60 a year

xbox 360 game $60

total $380 to enjoy 1 game



the average console is discontinued after 5 years


60x5 = $300 to keep the 360 running for 5 years with no games, just xbox live

$260+ 300 = $560

but with a PC, there is no monthly fee to use it, all extra costs are just for games

consoles are cheaper in the short run but in the long run they become more expensive than PC

and you can build a gaming pc for $500 http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/system-builder-mara...

and it can run the latest games faster than the xbox 360 will
November 3, 2008 7:47:14 PM

I hate it when people complain about hackers on PC games, the real problem is all the people complaining about hackers when they get their butts kicked. People would rather just not admit that the kid who plays 6-8 hours a day can somehow be extremely good at a game.

November 3, 2008 8:02:37 PM

Quote:
I hate it when people complain about hackers on PC games, the real problem is all the people complaining about hackers when they get their butts kicked. People would rather just not admit that the kid who plays 6-8 hours a day can somehow be extremely good at a game.

Agree, and if you're complaning about hackers in online video games you seriously need to find something better to do with your time.
November 3, 2008 8:10:09 PM

purplerat said:
Quote:
I hate it when people complain about hackers on PC games, the real problem is all the people complaining about hackers when they get their butts kicked. People would rather just not admit that the kid who plays 6-8 hours a day can somehow be extremely good at a game.

Agree, and if you're complaning about hackers in online video games you seriously need to find something better to do with your time.



in some cases, it can be hard not to when in games like css and cod4 you will see a player once in a while who is either shooting you from under the map or floating in the air


or when a player discovers a glitch that gives them a unfair advantage like this one (I have cod4 and i do see this every once in a while )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_3-PBgmBiA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZiLgibKe1E



and it is very annoying when this happens with a kill cam activated so you will see things like a player slowly moves up to you, takes their time to aim, then kills you with out you ever seeing them because there invisible

or when you see a kill cam of a player like 500 feet in the air dropping grenades and killing you
November 3, 2008 8:16:18 PM

Quote:
in some cases, it can be hard not to when in games like css and cod4 you will see a player once in a while who is either shooting you from under the map or floating in the air

If it bothers somebody that much the solution to that is pretty simple. Only play with people you know. If you can't figure that part out, then once again you need to find something else to do besides play video games.
November 5, 2008 5:13:39 AM

purplerat said:
Quote:
in some cases, it can be hard not to when in games like css and cod4 you will see a player once in a while who is either shooting you from under the map or floating in the air

If it bothers somebody that much the solution to that is pretty simple. Only play with people you know. If you can't figure that part out, then once again you need to find something else to do besides play video games.


I guess you dont play games, and if you dont play games why are you on this thread? THERE ARE CHEATING FUX OUT THERE! Ya it ruins games badly, i QUIT CRYSIS cause of the nonstop cheaters, cod4 tons of cheaters. I cant gather 100 people at the same time to game with, and even than i cant control if they cheat or not. Your about the biggest dumbass on the forums. You need to find something better to do than to troll the forums spreading ****.
November 5, 2008 1:54:16 PM

Dude, you are way too invested in gaming. Why are you getting so defensive over comments that weren't even directed to you? Rather than cursing me out and name calling how about you act like somebody who's testicles have descended and have a grown up conversation.
Yes I do game, but I also have a real life so I don't get too wound up on whether or not somebody beating me in a VIDEO GAME is cheating. Even so and with the somewhat limited time I do spend playing online games I don't think it's too hard to find a good server with regular players where such issues are not much of a problem. Usually I find a server that's well run with regular players and stick with that server. If somebody cheats they're usually caught pretty quick and banned. What I also find is that the people who constantly bitch about cheating when they lose and act obnoxious about it are usually shown the door too. Basically what I'm saying is that I don't seem to have much trouble finding good grown up games where people are adult enough to not get so involved that they need to cheat nor bitch about losing.
Another point I think you might be missing as it relates to the topic of this thread is that online cheating and piracy are tied together. Cracking a game to allow cheating goes right along with cracking it to pirate. I would bet that most cheaters are using pirated copies. It just seems more practical that if you are going to cheat you might as well use a pirated copy since you'll have to go through much of the same to cheat anyways. Plus cracked servers that allow pirated games are probably more likely to have cheating as well. The same systems that could be used to prevent piracy in multiplayer games could easily go hand-in-hand with anti-cheating measures.
Anonymous
June 30, 2009 11:42:09 PM

Pardon for digging up this old thread, but if you people are so worried about cheaters then play in servers with ACTIVE admins.. i was admin in few CSS servers and trust me, no cheater got away, the list of banned SteamIDs was extremely long.. the community also dislike cheaters so they inform you + you can see with your own eyes, some cheats are hard to notice but a good admin will notice them also.. only stupid only rely on anti-cheat software, good servers have active admins around to keep an eye on the players so i find the whine about cheaters quite.. stupid..
July 1, 2009 10:36:09 AM

Do not listen to ChaosGS is just an angry noob, because he cannot manage to get Bioshock and fallout 3 to work on his pc.
July 1, 2009 12:34:28 PM

razor512 said:
consoles are very expensive compared to pcs

on a console, lets base it on the current prices

xbox 360, $260

xbox live $60 a year

xbox 360 game $60

total $380 to enjoy 1 game



the average console is discontinued after 5 years


60x5 = $300 to keep the 360 running for 5 years with no games, just xbox live

$260+ 300 = $560

but with a PC, there is no monthly fee to use it, all extra costs are just for games

consoles are cheaper in the short run but in the long run they become more expensive than PC

and you can build a gaming pc for $500 http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/system-builder-mara...

and it can run the latest games faster than the xbox 360 will


^+1

Something that most people cant grasp

July 1, 2009 2:53:32 PM

I know this is essentially an old thread but it's a good one, so apologies if they are required.

FWIW I think those who download and play hacked games would do it anyway regardless of DRM. Those people who feel this is ok are likely to be those who would never have bought it anyway so in effect it isn't lost revenue in that wa,y but does involve a cost through server support and increased development costs etc.

I think it would stop pretty quickly if the gaming industry slapped a few folk with fines (see Jammie Thomas recently), this would stop the kids who rip stuff off the net with no regard for the impact that has. What do the panel think??

I also agree with the suggestion of playing a multiplayer with friends for a better experience, you have to expect some buggering about online, that's why games come with the disclaimer that game experience may differ online.
Interested in thoughts re fines...

AC
July 1, 2009 5:41:55 PM

The industry isn't hurting, only companies who are releasing rehashed garbage of no value over and over again.

Look at companies that release quality games of good variety, like Stardock. They have no problems making money.

Compare now to the late 90s, then every genre had many games released. Now all we get is bad action games over and over. Tons of sandbox games like Assassins Creed, GTA, and Prototype with zombies thrown in.

Why would I want to buy the same game I played last week? I hate flavor of the week trash, so game companies do not get my money. Piracy has nothing to do with it, its the quality of what they are releasing. I can only buy Fear or Assassins creed so many times. Give me Mech Warrior, Wing Commander, X-Com, Master of Orion, or Il-2 Sturmovic please -> all games in dead genres because they dont make money... routinely disproved whenever the rare gem in these genres are released. I guess if 14 year olds and xbox 360 users living in trailer parks dont want it then its not made. The industry was better before it was mass market, when gaming was for nerds.

edit: I laugh at whoever voted for hackers as usually the people who claim hacks are absolutely terrible players with deluions of grandure who can't comprehend people being better than them. When I used to play CS I had 12 year olds call me a hacker at all times. Even got banned from servers for not being terrible. Anyone who thinks that hackers is ruining the gaming indutry is clearly not thinking or sees hackers at every corner.
July 3, 2009 1:55:32 AM

Okay, I only read the first couple of posts because I didn't feel like going through all 38. But here's my take on the video game industry (PC only) in regards to where it is/where its going, and it can be argued both ways.

Reasons why the industry (imo) is going downhill some:

1. Games aren't coming out fast enough
2. The games that do come out aren't as innovative/appealing as games prior
3. Solid games that are out are able to be played for many months, if not years, and still be fun to the players (ex: COD, Halo, WC III, etc.)
4. New ideas for games aren't coming out either. It's the same thing over and over with just an improvement on graphics/map changes.
5. A large population of gamers play MMO's (I just stopped playing WoW, and played mostly just that for 2 years)

Reasons why the industry is going uphill somewhat:

1. People love their games and the sequels to them (COD4 = COD WaW, WoW/Sims expansions, next year for sports games)
2. People have invested a substantial amount of money in their PC to be able to run high end games and don't want to see that PC go to waste.
3. Gamers are accustom to...gaming! They have friends IRL that they play with and it's always something to do.
4. Stress reliever. People get pissed and so they play video games to blow off some steam, as well as get even more pissed at the game. (Lol)
5. On the console side, the Wii has taken a huge step. More specifically, making the target audience of video games ALL ages. Games such as the Wii Fit, bowling, baseball, hunting games and whatever else there is. Playing video games can be used as a family activity where everybody will enjoy it, not just a 20 year old college student playing COD4 until 3 AM with a final at 8 AM....me. =P

The fact that you talked about gaming being "buggy" or not working really is stupid to say. With MMO and online games where there its capable to update and makes those fixes, yes, its a bit annoying. But that comes with the nature of the games. Bioshock on the other hand...I played that game the whole way through and didn't really run into any issues, and I just started playing Fallout3 and its going great too.

And as for you talking about Crysis being bad...not all games are going to be blockbusters. Just because the game gets a lot of publicity doesn't mean it's going to be awesome. IMO, Crysis is a better benchmark then it is a game.


It just sounds like to me that you're getting bored with the games that you're playing right now and in result you think that the video game industry is going to the crapper. Maybe you should take up a different genre. I never played an RTS before and I just picked up EndWar. I could be wrong though, who knows.

Either way, it can be argued both ways. It has it's good times, and it has it's bad. Every industry is a roller coaster.



-Charles


P.S. I'm really looking forward to the KOTOR MMO.
July 7, 2009 1:19:34 AM

I Built my system a while ago and have not stopped upgrading. I agree how fallout 3 crashes alot. "Crashes" but i have figured out the problem long ago, People who understand how to actually USE the computer will have a much better time than the people who complain.

But i agree with the fact that piracy is hurting pc gaming, companies are now making maybe 50% of what they would have made if piracy Didn't exist. To be honest, i am waiting for torrent many games also. but I also buy my fair share mainly because i love playing online, so in that sense PC gaming isn't really dying.

It's people not being able to work their computers! I WIN! loll!!!!!+ consoles are much easier to use, disk in and play sorta thing. i own an xbox 360 also because most of my friends play it. There is nothing like playing Gears of war 2 with 9 of your friends from school ;) 
July 7, 2009 1:42:45 AM

Well yeah torrenting games hurts the industry, it's a given...but not near as much as movies do with the movie industry (thats a COMPLETE different topic lol). But still, the amount of damage that pirating is doing to the video game industry isn't anywhere close to actually hurting it.

50% is an exaggeration. By a lot. It's probably something along the lines of 6-8%, which is still a substantial amount. You will always have games that you want to play online and require a unique key to where you HAVE to buy the game. You'll always have gifts for friends and family (or yourself). You'll always have consumers who don't even want to touch torrenting due to viruses or whatever. You'll have people who like the feeling of having the actual disc and take pride in the vast library of games they've collected over the years. And then you'll have people who might torrent a game to try it out and then go out and buy it if they like it enough (such as me).

Yeah, piracy hurts, but its not detrimental.



-Charles
July 30, 2009 3:48:48 PM

Piracy should be prosecuted at the end user level as a 1st degree misdemeanor. Problem solved. In fact it wasn't Freddie Mac and Fanny May who ruined our economy it was chinese gang bangers, who think their badass and seed these torrents. Illegal torrenting is badass and we all know where badasses go.
July 31, 2009 8:13:00 PM

bpogdowz said:
Piracy should be prosecuted at the end user level as a 1st degree misdemeanor. Problem solved. In fact it wasn't Freddie Mac and Fanny May who ruined our economy it was chinese gang bangers, who think their badass and seed these torrents.




[sarcasm] Yup. Torrenting kills the video game industry, which hasn't made money in years. That's the downfall of our whole economy. [/sarcasm]

July 31, 2009 11:07:47 PM

@ bpogdowz

Wtf are you talking about? You seriously think that if somebody gets a little misdemeanor they are going to stop torrenting when they have been for the past 5+ years??? ROFL. Think again.

They will continue to do it, but just change how they do it. Do you stop speeding just because you get a ticket one time? NO. You just watch out for cops more. The fact that you are actually serious with what you said is hysterical.


And FYI, the video game industry makes MORE money then any other entertainment industry and is CONTINUING to grow. Here's a little taste of how dumb you sound compared to the FACTS...


Spiderman 3 holds the record for the most money brought in on opening day @ $59 million. Grand Theft Auto IV, opening day...just ONE day....$310 MILLION.


The video game industry has grown over 20% in the last two years, which is over $21 billion dollars. As of 2007, there were 267 million games sold which comes out to 540 games sold EVERY MINUTE. And if the industry has grown even more since then, what do you think the figures would look like now?

2009 has been the highest selling year or video games in history and its not even over, and you're saying that there's a problem???

I seriously advise for most of you to read up on articles and pay attention to the stock market / news before you make such stupid comments which only make you appear dumb.



-Charles
August 1, 2009 12:06:40 AM

This topic is old, I still maintain there isn't anything especially wrong with the PC gaming marketing and issues there are effect all platforms not just the PC.

The one thing we are all going to have to get used to is that major video game releases will nearly always be cross platform. The only exceptions is hard core games like ARAM, simulators and RTS which is suited for PC gamers, the days of a game like Crysis being PC only are over. However the same applies to the consoles just look at home many exclusives the PS3 has lost over the last two years, it just doesn't make sense to make games for a single platform anymore given how much it costs to produce games and how fragmented the industry is at the moment.

If it makes you fill any better then at least studios should get better at porting games more effectively to the PC then they have done in the past.
August 2, 2009 5:53:06 PM

Just a misdemeanor? You get three of those for the same thing you're going to the pen.
August 3, 2009 1:23:40 AM

Piracy is a problem?, not for me
August 3, 2009 5:11:53 AM

bpogdowz said:
Just a misdemeanor? You get three of those for the same thing you're going to the pen.



Lol...well first off you have to get caught. Second, you have to be dumb enough to be caught 2 more times. 3rd, it depends on the class of the crime. Different states have different rules.

You remind me of Dwight from The Office.

*Conversation between two co-workers. One of them being Dwight, a moron who thinks he's so cool and is in control of everything. The second, Jim...an easy going guy who screws around with Dwight all the time*


Jim: [picking up a ticket on his desk] What's this?
Dwight: That is a demerit.
Jim: "Jim Halpert, tardiness." Oh, I love it already.
Dwight: You've got to learn, Jim, you're second in command, but that does not put you above the law.
Jim: Oh I understand. And I also have lots of questions. Like what does a demerit mean?
Dwight: Let's put it this way. You do not want to receive three of those.
Jim: Lay it on me.
Dwight: Three demerits, and you'll receive a citation.
Jim: Now that sounds serious.
Dwight: Oh it is serious. Five citations, and you're looking at a violation. Four of those, and you'll receive a verbal warning. Keep it up, and you're looking at a written warning. Two of those, that'll land you in a world of hurt in the form of a disciplinary review, written up by me and placed on the desk of my immediate superior.
Jim: Which would be me.
Dwight: That...is correct.
Jim: Okay, I want a copy on my desk by the end of the day or you will receive a full disadulation.
Dwight: What's a dis...what's that?
Jim: Oh, you don’t want to know.


You sir, are Dwight.
August 3, 2009 12:14:00 PM

If you get caught, that's right as of right now but what I said it should be prosecuted as a 1st degree at the end user level. There is no not getting caught scenario. You will be caught and prosecuted and there is no hiding it. We all know where badasses go.
August 3, 2009 7:27:50 PM

bpogdowz said:
If you get caught, that's right as of right now but what I said it should be prosecuted as a 1st degree at the end user level. There is no not getting caught scenario. You will be caught and prosecuted and there is no hiding it. We all know where badasses go.



I guess you're favorite song goes, "I fought the law and the law one...I fought the law and the law one...". Lol.

And FYI, I know around 100 people who have never been caught and will never get caught because they understand the methods of how one does get cause and they take the necessary precautionary steps in order to avoid being caught.

And even if you do get caught, 99% of the time its by your ISP, and they really couldn't care less. The most that'll happen to you from them is that you'll get your internet shut off for a few weeks or a verbal warning. Lol.

There are billions of torrents downloaded weekly probably and how many of them do you hear about in the news? A handful.
August 4, 2009 2:24:44 AM

We all know where badasses go so take your little turd ring out these forums.
August 4, 2009 7:51:21 AM

bpogdowz said:
We all know where badasses go so take your little turd ring out these forums.



What is up with you and saying "We all know where badasses go"? Did you drop the soap in the high school locker room after basketball and are now scarred forever because of it? If so, continue saying it. If not, get a new saying.
August 4, 2009 3:28:07 PM

Stop trolling u flamin f@ggot.
August 5, 2009 6:43:45 PM

well I think that the game developers are as much to blame as the hackers/ pirates, lousy games, poor coding, lack of support, the perfect climate for unrest and how many of you think that
COD WOW was better than COD4
Far Cry2 better than Far Cry
I'm still playing Free Lancer, Max Payne, and COD2, COD4, and Quake4, good games are just as much fun if you put them away for sometime and then get them out, I love Serious Sam, non stop killing orgy, but it is my opion
August 5, 2009 6:53:47 PM

Its nothing to take a pen home from an employer, but you wouldnt take a stapler home.
If the games were better, peoples wallets would be more accessable
!