PRL 50152 to 50175 in NY

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I think my update to 175 two months ago is causing me to have many, many
calls lost when they never were lost before. The signal strength meter (LG
VX 4400) looks about 2 bars less than it used to in my usual areas, but in
certain sites where I do not remember good service, it is full strength. It
also seems to flow and ebb. Finally, many more of my incoming calls are
going right to voice mail. Being the over analyzing geek that I am, I
suspect that PRL 50175 left off a number of my local sites (Queens, Nassau
and possibly Suffolk) when a few were added. I recall others complaining of
similar problems in NYC and Westchester. Tech support says there are no
memos on the problem, but they will check into it if a good number of
complaints come in. The phone is going into the shop in a day or two to end
my frustration (I hope). Anyone else have a problem with 175? Oh, yeah, I
took a friend's VX 6000 with 152 and full strength on the meter, upgraded to
175 while the car was not moving, and the signal strength bar dropped 2
bars. Very suspicious. I hope she does not kill me! Is there a way to
down grade back to 152?
------------------------------------------------------------
reply address bot resistant and human safe
------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I decoded the PRL's you mention, then did a "diff" on the text. I checked
the SID's and priority changes. I wasn't able to find anything that should
effect your service in New York. CDMA coverage area breathes which means
that as you get more users, there is less usable signal. While some other
cellular technology doesn't work this way, it literally means that you will
see less usable signal when the system is at capacity. i.e. More people use
their phone, and your signal strength indication absolutely does go down.

You can watch this happen. Go to a place that's busy during the day at
night (or sometime when its not busy). Check your phone's signal strength
indicator. Go back to the same place with the same phone at say noon hour,
or during rush hours. Check the signal strength again and you'll see what I
mean.

Verizon seems to be adding something like 2-3 million customers per quarter.
Keeping up with capacity issues will be a definite problem for them. How
well they address this issue will ultimately tell whether they get to keep
all those new customers or not.

Anyway, it's far more likely that what you are seeing is either capacity
issues, or a bad phone.

-Dan

PS: I live in a small town, and we often get the james earl jones voice with
something like "Welcome to Verizon Wireless, all circuits are busy now.
Please try your call again later." I'm actually surprised this happens
here, but other carriers have the same issues too, and from all reports
AT&T, for example, is even worse in my neck of the woods.

--
Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu


"SmartyPants" <schmartypantz@(remove_this)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cMuzc.122281$Nn4.26477980@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> I think my update to 175 two months ago is causing me to have many, many
> calls lost when they never were lost before. The signal strength meter
(LG
> VX 4400) looks about 2 bars less than it used to in my usual areas, but in
> certain sites where I do not remember good service, it is full strength.
It
> also seems to flow and ebb. Finally, many more of my incoming calls are
> going right to voice mail. Being the over analyzing geek that I am, I
> suspect that PRL 50175 left off a number of my local sites (Queens, Nassau
> and possibly Suffolk) when a few were added. I recall others complaining
of
> similar problems in NYC and Westchester. Tech support says there are no
> memos on the problem, but they will check into it if a good number of
> complaints come in. The phone is going into the shop in a day or two to
end
> my frustration (I hope). Anyone else have a problem with 175? Oh, yeah,
I
> took a friend's VX 6000 with 152 and full strength on the meter, upgraded
to
> 175 while the car was not moving, and the signal strength bar dropped 2
> bars. Very suspicious. I hope she does not kill me! Is there a way to
> down grade back to 152?
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> reply address bot resistant and human safe
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> I decoded the PRL's you mention, then did a "diff" on the text. I checked
> the SID's and priority changes. I wasn't able to find anything that should
> effect your service in New York.

Dan,
Thanks for your info. Where are you able to find the text inside the
PRL? I really hope the problem is the phone... that I have some control
over.

------------------------------------------------------------
reply address bot resistant and human safe
------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

www.justalurker.com has binary to text PRL conversion tool so you can see it
in plain form. Getting the PRL off of your phone requires software for your
phone, say bitpim http://bitpim.sourceforge.net/

-Dan

--
Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu


"SmartyPants" <schmartypantz@(remove_this)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ehwzc.79312$mX.26811391@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> > I decoded the PRL's you mention, then did a "diff" on the text. I
checked
> > the SID's and priority changes. I wasn't able to find anything that
should
> > effect your service in New York.
>
> Dan,
> Thanks for your info. Where are you able to find the text inside the
> PRL? I really hope the problem is the phone... that I have some control
> over.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> reply address bot resistant and human safe
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Something key to this discussion.
If the phone is staying on the same SID/system, a PRL will make NO difference
on how a phone performs. In other words, if the roam icon is not changing.

A PRL only controls how the phone switches between SIDS, not how its receiver
or transmitter functions.

So unless those "missing" sites had a different SID, the PRL is NOT the issue.


"SmartyPants" <schmartypantz@(remove_this)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:cMuzc.122281$Nn4.26477980@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> I think my update to 175 two months ago is causing me to have many, many
> calls lost when they never were lost before. The signal strength meter (LG
> VX 4400) looks about 2 bars less than it used to in my usual areas, but in
> certain sites where I do not remember good service, it is full strength. It
> also seems to flow and ebb. Finally, many more of my incoming calls are
> going right to voice mail. Being the over analyzing geek that I am, I
> suspect that PRL 50175 left off a number of my local sites (Queens, Nassau
> and possibly Suffolk) when a few were added. I recall others complaining of
> similar problems in NYC and Westchester. Tech support says there are no
> memos on the problem, but they will check into it if a good number of
> complaints come in. The phone is going into the shop in a day or two to end
> my frustration (I hope). Anyone else have a problem with 175? Oh, yeah, I
> took a friend's VX 6000 with 152 and full strength on the meter, upgraded to
> 175 while the car was not moving, and the signal strength bar dropped 2
> bars. Very suspicious. I hope she does not kill me! Is there a way to
> down grade back to 152?
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> reply address bot resistant and human safe
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

....Something key to this discussion. If the phone is staying on the same
SID/system, a PRL will make NO difference on how a phone performs...

Thank you to all of you. I am learning a lot here. Yes, the phone is going
to repairs. I was there yesterday but the line was tremendous.--
------------------------------------------------------------
reply address bot resistant and human safe
------------------------------------------------------------

 

[louise]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <cMuzc.122281$Nn4.26477980@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
"SmartyPants" <schmartypantz@(remove_this)yahoo.com> says...
> I think my update to 175 two months ago is causing me to have many, many
> calls lost when they never were lost before. The signal strength meter (LG
> VX 4400) looks about 2 bars less than it used to in my usual areas, but in
> certain sites where I do not remember good service, it is full strength. It
> also seems to flow and ebb. Finally, many more of my incoming calls are
> going right to voice mail. Being the over analyzing geek that I am, I
> suspect that PRL 50175 left off a number of my local sites (Queens, Nassau
> and possibly Suffolk) when a few were added. I recall others complaining of
> similar problems in NYC and Westchester. Tech support says there are no
> memos on the problem, but they will check into it if a good number of
> complaints come in. The phone is going into the shop in a day or two to end
> my frustration (I hope). Anyone else have a problem with 175? Oh, yeah, I
> took a friend's VX 6000 with 152 and full strength on the meter, upgraded to
> 175 while the car was not moving, and the signal strength bar dropped 2
> bars. Very suspicious. I hope she does not kill me! Is there a way to
> down grade back to 152?
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> reply address bot resistant and human safe
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
YES - And if tech support tells you they've no other complaints about
dropped calls and seriously reduced signal strength, email me for the
number of two trouble tickets I've now opened!

I'm on the upper west side of Manhattan. To get a good enough signal to
use, I have a car antenna in front of my apartment window and I'm
attaching that to the VX4400 antenna jack! This is NOT exactly
wireless.

VZ finally acknowledged there was trouble with a nearby cell site but
said they'd made a temporary fix. It hasn't changed at all, or it's
worse.

I tried to "escalate" only to be told it was necessary to open a new
trouble ticket.

I'm not sure if it's the PRL or the site, but I do know I even went
through the trouble of swapping out my phone which was still under
warranty - but as suspected, it made no difference.

I put an old Star Tac 7868 back into service - it made no difference.

email: louise2002@nyc.rr.com

I don't know how to make them take notice. But if enough of us complain
- and if, perhaps, we share trouble ticket numbers.....

Louise

 

[louise]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <jeCdnbuzzcyPF1PdRVn2hw@comcast.com>,
junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui says...
> I decoded the PRL's you mention, then did a "diff" on the text. I checked
> the SID's and priority changes. I wasn't able to find anything that should
> effect your service in New York. CDMA coverage area breathes which means
> that as you get more users, there is less usable signal. While some other
> cellular technology doesn't work this way, it literally means that you will
> see less usable signal when the system is at capacity. i.e. More people use
> their phone, and your signal strength indication absolutely does go down.
>
> You can watch this happen. Go to a place that's busy during the day at
> night (or sometime when its not busy). Check your phone's signal strength
> indicator. Go back to the same place with the same phone at say noon hour,
> or during rush hours. Check the signal strength again and you'll see what I
> mean.
>
> Verizon seems to be adding something like 2-3 million customers per quarter.
> Keeping up with capacity issues will be a definite problem for them. How
> well they address this issue will ultimately tell whether they get to keep
> all those new customers or not.
>
> Anyway, it's far more likely that what you are seeing is either capacity
> issues, or a bad phone.
>
> -Dan
>
> PS: I live in a small town, and we often get the james earl jones voice with
> something like "Welcome to Verizon Wireless, all circuits are busy now.
> Please try your call again later." I'm actually surprised this happens
> here, but other carriers have the same issues too, and from all reports
> AT&T, for example, is even worse in my neck of the woods.
>
>
I too suspect it is a capacity issue. But what does one do?

I'll never sign a 2 year contract again even though I've been a
satisfied user for 6 years.

Louise

 

[louise]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <_hJzc.79335$mX.26956106@twister.nyc.rr.com>, "SmartyPants"
<schmartypantz@(remove_this)yahoo.com> says...
> ...Something key to this discussion. If the phone is staying on the same
> SID/system, a PRL will make NO difference on how a phone performs...
>
> Thank you to all of you. I am learning a lot here. Yes, the phone is going
> to repairs. I was there yesterday but the line was tremendous.--
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> reply address bot resistant and human safe
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
see my post - I had my vx4400 swapped out - I also reinstated an old
Star Tac - no difference.

It is their service that has radically deteriorated in the last month or
so and I suspect it has to do with number portability.

Is there any government type agency one can complain to?

Louise

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>> Is there a way to down grade back to 152?

> YES - And if tech support tells you they've no other complaints about
> dropped calls and seriously reduced signal strength, email me for the
> number of two trouble tickets I've now opened!

Were you able to drop back down a PRL? Did it make a difference?
------------------------------------------------------------
reply address bot resistant and human safe
------------------------------------------------------------

 

[gerry]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:12:01 -0400, Louise <none@nospam.com> wrote:

>In article <jeCdnbuzzcyPF1PdRVn2hw@comcast.com>,
>junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui says...
>> I decoded the PRL's you mention, then did a "diff" on the text. I checked
>> the SID's and priority changes. I wasn't able to find anything that should
>> effect your service in New York. CDMA coverage area breathes which means
>> that as you get more users, there is less usable signal. While some other
>> cellular technology doesn't work this way, it literally means that you will
>> see less usable signal when the system is at capacity. i.e. More people use
>> their phone, and your signal strength indication absolutely does go down.
>>


>I too suspect it is a capacity issue. But what does one do?
>
>I'll never sign a 2 year contract again even though I've been a
>satisfied user for 6 years.
>

I've had this often, particularly in seasonal usage areas. Nearest tower
gets saturated, you get directed to a distant tower with weak signal.

There is an easy test for this - try the phone at 3 AM when few folks are
on! If you get a good signal, it most likely a tower saturation issue.

gerry


--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> really? how much? Where do you see the cost vs. risk points?
> 2 year contract with new-any-2 on one end and purchase your
> own phone and activate month to month from the very start.
>
> -Quick

If you monitor the cellular newsgroups over time, you will see a
recurring question "How do I get out of my contract?"

Some of these folks have planned poorly, others have had
unforseen life changes (job layoffs etc). Others have had
quality of service issues. i.e. Works great at my house, something
changes, and now it doesn't work there at all, and nobody can
fix it-- this really happens as I know people who it's happened to.

For me, with 2 lines, to quit service, it's what $350. No thanks,
I'd rather pay the $35 activation fee, and possible slight increase
in phone price upfront, get a 1 year, and go month to month.

If you make plan changes, or buy a new phone, contract length
gets extended by the same increment you began with (this is
true in my market, may not be in yours). i.e. 2 yr folks, will
get extended 2 years if they make changes.

If you want to give me a 2 year contract, give me something
good for it. i.e. AT&T historically added 50% more peak
minutes to anyone willing to take a 2 year contract. This benefit
outweighs the risk. The meager discount Verizon gives for
a two year contract is not worth even the cost of one month's bill.

-Dan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> 1) I believe you can *start* month to month?
> Full price on phone (*no* subsidy but you could purchase it
> elsewhere), $35 activation fee, no $175 ETF.
--> Verizon does not offer this option anywhere in the nation. You must
assume
a one year contract to begin service with Verizon. You can call customer
service
to verify that this is correct. Your idea is a good one-- the main reason
for contracts
is for vendors to recoup their subsidy on the phone. i.e. If this business
were logical
then you would be correct. Unfortunately, Verizon requires a 1 yr contract
even
for customer supplied equipment simply because they can.

> 2) 1 year contract.
> $35 activation fee.
> Something like $200 off list price of phone??
> $175 ETF.
--> Actually there is typically a very small difference between a 1 year
price
and a two year price on Verizon phones. It all depends on the time period
you check.
I have even seen the 1 year and 2 year price be the same (or off by $10 )
depending
on phone model. At the moment, most all of the Verizon phones are $50
cheaper
on average with a 2 year.

> 3) 2 year contract.
> $0 activation fee.
> Something like $30 more phone subsidy than 1yr contract.
> Same $175 ETF.

> +$100 NE2 at end of 2yr and commit to another 2yr.
--> New every 2 does depend on a 4 year commitment. 2 yr completes,
then you must re-up for another two years! Total of 4 year commitment
for $100 benefit. Let's see, 48 months at $40-$60 per month on average
how much is that $100 really worth? I'm talking about the freedom to
quit your service without penalty when you like. That's valuable.


--> If you are totally satisfied with your sevice, and basically never plan
to discontinue it, then the 2 year is definitely a better deal.

Yes, risk is limited by the cost, but I have 2 lines so my "out" is $350
and not $175. Cost for me to do 2 lines on 1 year contract was the
same (in my case) as doing 2 year. i.e. I got the 2 year price on my
second phone and they waived the activation fee on the second phone
so I was only out the $35 initial activation fee.

By the way, I don't generally disagree with what you've said. Hopefully
this discussion will help others choose what works best for them. I only
disagree with the service without contract point you made. i.e. Verizon does
require at least one year...

-Dan

 

[louise]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <RdQzc.80493$mX.27130764@twister.nyc.rr.com>, "SmartyPants"
<schmartypantz@(remove_this)yahoo.com> says...
> >> Is there a way to down grade back to 152?
>
> > YES - And if tech support tells you they've no other complaints about
> > dropped calls and seriously reduced signal strength, email me for the
> > number of two trouble tickets I've now opened!
>
> Were you able to drop back down a PRL? Did it make a difference?
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> reply address bot resistant and human safe
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
sorry, my "yes" was in response to the fact that I too am having
problems. I know no way to drop down to a previous prl

Louise

 

[louise]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <eio0d09eu2ocq2gq8458prptm9teks87ch@4ax.com>,
gerrry_net@gogood.com says...
> [original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:12:01 -0400, Louise <none@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <jeCdnbuzzcyPF1PdRVn2hw@comcast.com>,
> >junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui says...
> >> I decoded the PRL's you mention, then did a "diff" on the text. I checked
> >> the SID's and priority changes. I wasn't able to find anything that should
> >> effect your service in New York. CDMA coverage area breathes which means
> >> that as you get more users, there is less usable signal. While some other
> >> cellular technology doesn't work this way, it literally means that you will
> >> see less usable signal when the system is at capacity. i.e. More people use
> >> their phone, and your signal strength indication absolutely does go down.
> >>
>
>
> >I too suspect it is a capacity issue. But what does one do?
> >
> >I'll never sign a 2 year contract again even though I've been a
> >satisfied user for 6 years.
> >
>
> I've had this often, particularly in seasonal usage areas. Nearest tower
> gets saturated, you get directed to a distant tower with weak signal.
>
> There is an easy test for this - try the phone at 3 AM when few folks are
> on! If you get a good signal, it most likely a tower saturation issue.
>
> gerry
>
>
>
That's a great idea and I am going to do it just to compare the service
and quality (the next time I'm up at 3 AM, that is).

But, I must note that they seem to have fixed it. My service isn't
perfect, but it seems to be pretty much back to the way it always has
been. And, after having to open several trouble tickets, having to swap
out a perfectly good phone, etc., they did "apologize" by offering a
rebate of one month of service.

If the "fix" holds, I have to give them credit for trying and for
eventually resolving it.

Louise

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

--
peter_may_day

To email me, remove underwear, and insert, my name
my_name@yahoounderwear.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/who-called-me/
Directory of unlisted phone numbers

> There is an easy test for this - try the phone at 3 AM when few folks are
> on! If you get a good signal, it most likely a tower saturation issue.
>

I live in western MA, and have the same problems as the original poster. I
have three VX4400s, and can sit here at 1:30 AM and call one from the other
and get sent to voicemail without a single ring. Then reverse, call from the
other one back and get sent to voicemail as if the one I just called on,
sitting 3 feet away, is out of range. Sometimes they ring the first time,
sometimes they don't. they always work just fine if I call again a second
time. Also a lot of people who call me have gotten the viocemail when my
phone was sitting at home. (worth noting that I live in sight of a VZW
tower, about a mile away.)

 

[gerry]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:07:51 GMT, "peter_may_day"
<my_name@yahoounderwear.com> wrote:

>> There is an easy test for this - try the phone at 3 AM when few folks are
>> on! If you get a good signal, it most likely a tower saturation issue.
>>
>
> I live in western MA, and have the same problems as the original poster. I
>have three VX4400s, and can sit here at 1:30 AM and call one from the other
>and get sent to voicemail without a single ring. Then reverse, call from the
>other one back and get sent to voicemail as if the one I just called on,
>sitting 3 feet away, is out of range. Sometimes they ring the first time,
>sometimes they don't. they always work just fine if I call again a second
>time. Also a lot of people who call me have gotten the viocemail when my
>phone was sitting at home. (worth noting that I live in sight of a VZW
>tower, about a mile away.)
>

There is no concept of "my tower", there may be a "nearest tower" Sounds
like you are betting bumped to a more distant tower when idle during the
day, when the 2nd tower can't handle the weak signal, the network
redirects you.

Camping in Western MA is one place I had network sending be to distant
tower problems. VZW clearly marks it as a poor coverage area. It also has
a low population and lots of mountains.

I don't know about VX4400s, but with my phone (Nokia) I can read the
numbers representing the tower and face I'm actually connected to, even on
idle. This has helped tracing the problem in a location in CT.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

 

[gerry]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:07:51 GMT, "peter_may_day"
<my_name@yahoounderwear.com> wrote:

>> There is an easy test for this - try the phone at 3 AM when few folks are
>> on! If you get a good signal, it most likely a tower saturation issue.
>>
>
> I live in western MA, and have the same problems as the original poster. I
>have three VX4400s, and can sit here at 1:30 AM and call one from the other
>and get sent to voicemail without a single ring. Then reverse, call from the
>other one back and get sent to voicemail as if the one I just called on,
>sitting 3 feet away, is out of range.

Try dialing *18 when you get home. It is an obsolete (supposedly) free way
to tell the system where you are. Was needed a long time ago to roam on
other SIDS. ANY free number will force the network to try it's best
(within human programming errors) to find the strongest signal tower
available.

At any rate, idling on a lesser used, more distant tower has given me
grief in rural areas.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

 

[gerry]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:07:51 GMT, "peter_may_day"
<my_name@yahoounderwear.com> wrote:

>
>--
>peter_may_day
>
>To email me, remove underwear, and insert, my name
>my_name@yahoounderwear.com

Any reason you start with -- which is convention to signal for traditional
news readers not to quote anything below the "--"?

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:53:12 -0400, gerry <gerrry_net@gogood.com> chose to
add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

>[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:07:51 GMT, "peter_may_day"
><my_name@yahoounderwear.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>--
>>peter_may_day
>>
>>To email me, remove underwear, and insert, my name
>>my_name@yahoounderwear.com
>
>Any reason you start with -- which is convention to signal for traditional
>news readers not to quote anything below the "--"?

Actually, the *proper* signal is "-- " (with a space after the two
hyphens). But most newsreaders will obey "--" as well.

My guess is that he accidentally placed his sig at the top instead of the
bottom.

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"I sure wish I knew what was going on." - Henry Blake
"Oh, I'll tell you later, sir." - Radar
"You always say that, Radar, but you never do." - Henry

 

[gerry]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:06:23 GMT, David S
<dwstreeter@spamisnaughty.att.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:53:12 -0400, gerry <gerrry_net@gogood.com> chose to
>add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:
>
>>[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:07:51 GMT, "peter_may_day"
>><my_name@yahoounderwear.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>peter_may_day
>>>
>>>To email me, remove underwear, and insert, my name
>>>my_name@yahoounderwear.com
>>
>>Any reason you start with -- which is convention to signal for traditional
>>news readers not to quote anything below the "--"?
>
>Actually, the *proper* signal is "-- " (with a space after the two
>hyphens). But most newsreaders will obey "--" as well.
>

You are correct, formal is "-- ". One could argue that those starting
without the space are not following convention.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots