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Technical question on Airprime PC card - Unlimited Nationa..

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Anonymous
June 16, 2004 3:25:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

A question that someone here may or may not be able to answer. I keep trying
Verizon tech support and got many different and conflicting answers. I have
a laptop with an Airprime card and an unlimited account. One of my office
mates has a DSL connection, and another has a cable internet connection.
Work is considering putting in a wireless network so we can share things
like printers dial-up etc. The DSL people and the Cable people, both say
that their connections/modems can be a shared resource on the network, yet
the Verizon people say that their Airprime card/unlimited access cant be a
shared resource on the network. It seems sort of silly that DSL or cable can
be shared, but the Airprime card can't.
There is one other piece of info making me wonder (and may answer why we
just don't stick with DSL or Cable), The office is looking to move in a few
months to an area that is out of both the DSL and Cable areas, but has
Verizon service, and as a matter of fact, we are in an area that will be
going to Broadband Access in the next few months, so keeping the unlimited
Airprime cards, and putting it on the network as a shared device, seems to
make the most sense. One of the answers (a majorly absurd one), was that it
can only be used in one machine, and not networked, the card has to be
physically removed from one machine, and inserted into another. That's as
silly as saying you can't use a printer on a network, no network sharing of
printers! It has to be physically disconnected from the machine it is on and
connected to another one! (or an even more absurd statement, from another
tech support (not) person, was that since you will have 8 machines on the
network, you have to buy 8 Airprime cards and 8 unlimited access accounts!)
What is a network for except to share devices?
I get the feeling that the techies at Verizon really don't want to consider
it, since they can make ridiculous statements and make Verizon a lot more
money.
The other option for the new office would be a Sat internet system, Both
Starband and Direcway say those can be shared devices on a network!
Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.
Anonymous
June 16, 2004 11:13:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jbhkeFvdr9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
> A question that someone here may or may not be able to answer. I keep
trying
> Verizon tech support and got many different and conflicting answers. I
have
> a laptop with an Airprime card and an unlimited account. One of my office
> mates has a DSL connection, and another has a cable internet connection.
> Work is considering putting in a wireless network so we can share things
> like printers dial-up etc. The DSL people and the Cable people, both say
> that their connections/modems can be a shared resource on the network, yet
> the Verizon people say that their Airprime card/unlimited access cant be a
> shared resource on the network. It seems sort of silly that DSL or cable
can
> be shared, but the Airprime card can't.
> There is one other piece of info making me wonder (and may answer why we
> just don't stick with DSL or Cable), The office is looking to move in a
few
> months to an area that is out of both the DSL and Cable areas, but has
> Verizon service, and as a matter of fact, we are in an area that will be
> going to Broadband Access in the next few months, so keeping the unlimited
> Airprime cards, and putting it on the network as a shared device, seems to
> make the most sense. One of the answers (a majorly absurd one), was that
it
> can only be used in one machine, and not networked, the card has to be
> physically removed from one machine, and inserted into another. That's as
> silly as saying you can't use a printer on a network, no network sharing
of
> printers! It has to be physically disconnected from the machine it is on
and
> connected to another one! (or an even more absurd statement, from another
> tech support (not) person, was that since you will have 8 machines on the
> network, you have to buy 8 Airprime cards and 8 unlimited access
accounts!)
> What is a network for except to share devices?
> I get the feeling that the techies at Verizon really don't want to
consider
> it, since they can make ridiculous statements and make Verizon a lot more
> money.
> The other option for the new office would be a Sat internet system, Both
> Starband and Direcway say those can be shared devices on a network!
> Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.
>
>
>

God your making this way to technical. You cannot use an air card in a
shared office environment. One it is used for cellular broadband
connection. Secondly on a cable or DSL service a simple broadband router
like Linksys (http://www.linksys.com and additional external cardbus
(Network Cards) or internal Wireless a/b/g will be able to connect to the
net via the placement of the router and the ability to be setup to use that
network.

If you don't have the router and the network cards you cannot share the
connection wireless or via a wired connection.

Your Verizon Wireless Aircard is not compatible so that is not going to work
in that environment.

Oh and I use both a wireless G card and wired connections on my network.
They work great. Just be sure to set up individual MAC address filters or
you'll have every tom, dick and harry trying to use the connection (DSL or
Cable)

Elector
Anonymous
June 16, 2004 11:13:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:NZ0Ac.31461$mz.22919@nwrdny02.gnilink.net
> "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2jbhkeFvdr9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> A question that someone here may or may not be able to answer. I
>> keep trying Verizon tech support and got many different and
>> conflicting answers. I have a laptop with an Airprime card and an
>> unlimited account. One of my office mates has a DSL connection, and
>> another has a cable internet connection. Work is considering putting
>> in a wireless network so we can share things like printers dial-up
>> etc. The DSL people and the Cable people, both say that their
>> connections/modems can be a shared resource on the network, yet the
>> Verizon people say that their Airprime card/unlimited access cant be
>> a shared resource on the network. It seems sort of silly that DSL or
>> cable can be shared, but the Airprime card can't.
>> There is one other piece of info making me wonder (and may answer
>> why we just don't stick with DSL or Cable), The office is looking to
>> move in a few months to an area that is out of both the DSL and
>> Cable areas, but has Verizon service, and as a matter of fact, we
>> are in an area that will be going to Broadband Access in the next
>> few months, so keeping the unlimited Airprime cards, and putting it
>> on the network as a shared device, seems to make the most sense. One
>> of the answers (a majorly absurd one), was that it can only be used
>> in one machine, and not networked, the card has to be physically
>> removed from one machine, and inserted into another. That's as silly
>> as saying you can't use a printer on a network, no network sharing
>> of printers! It has to be physically disconnected from the machine
>> it is on and connected to another one! (or an even more absurd
>> statement, from another tech support (not) person, was that since
>> you will have 8 machines on the network, you have to buy 8 Airprime
>> cards and 8 unlimited access accounts!) What is a network for except
>> to share devices?
>> I get the feeling that the techies at Verizon really don't want to
>> consider it, since they can make ridiculous statements and make
>> Verizon a lot more money.
>> The other option for the new office would be a Sat internet system,
>> Both Starband and Direcway say those can be shared devices on a
>> network!
>> Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>
> God your making this way to technical. You cannot use an air card in a
> shared office environment. One it is used for cellular broadband
> connection. Secondly on a cable or DSL service a simple broadband
> router like Linksys (http://www.linksys.com and additional external
> cardbus (Network Cards) or internal Wireless a/b/g will be able to
> connect to the net via the placement of the router and the ability to
> be setup to use that network.
>
> If you don't have the router and the network cards you cannot share
> the connection wireless or via a wired connection.
>
> Your Verizon Wireless Aircard is not compatible so that is not going
> to work in that environment.
>
> Oh and I use both a wireless G card and wired connections on my
> network. They work great. Just be sure to set up individual MAC
> address filters or you'll have every tom, dick and harry trying to
> use the connection (DSL or Cable)
>
> Elector

Sorry for getting technical here, but tech support seems to have it's brain
up it's rear, and gives absurd and conflicting answers.
Just did a test at a friends, and now I am even more perplexed than ever. He
has a cell/MO/wireless network etc, and when he (or anyone else on the
network) logs on he/they can use the cell link, so now I am even more
confused why a cell phone/MO can be a shared resource, but an Airprime card
can't be!?!

Let me restate, if I connect a cellphone and MO on a networked machine, make
it a shared resource, others can use it (just like DSL/Cable/Sat), yet the
Airprime card that is supposed to be always on (and which can do the even
higher speed Broadband), can't. So handsets/MO can do it, but the card
can't, and unfortunately, there's no handset/mo combo at the moment that can
use Broadband.

Basically the dilemma is I would like to use my existing card (which is
still on contract for 6 months, and work will pay for it and the remaining
contract if I can get it working), or in the new location, they will
probably just get a Sat system.

The part that's annoying, is that it makes no logical sense for a phone/mo
combo to work, yet the data card won't.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 16, 2004 11:13:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2jbhkeFvdr9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> A question that someone here may or may not be able to answer. I
>> keep trying Verizon tech support and got many different and
>> conflicting answers. I have a laptop with an Airprime card and an
>> unlimited account. One of my office mates has a DSL connection, and
>> another has a cable internet connection. Work is considering putting
>> in a wireless network so we can share things like printers dial-up
>> etc. The DSL people and the Cable people, both say that their
>> connections/modems can be a shared resource on the network, yet the
>> Verizon people say that their Airprime card/unlimited access cant be
>> a shared resource on the network. It seems sort of silly that DSL or
>> cable can be shared, but the Airprime card can't.

Ummm, you're sort of mixing things and levels here.

1) Legal or intended use.
VZW may be saying that there Airprime card/connection is intended
for use by a single PC/device. On the other hand, DSL and Cable are
marketed for use by multiple users like a household. VZW *may* be
marketing the unlimited plan as being intended for a "single user". Kind
of like Sprint data plans? that prohibit tethered or "machine" use.

2) Technical

Although this is not what everybody is talking about (some may be)
there is a difference at the IP level. The provider can allocate you
a) a single dynamic IP address
When you connect you get a single IP address. Actually it is the
DSL modem, cable modem, or aircard that gets assigned an IP
address. When you make a connection to something (remote IP
address) this is the IP address used by the remote end to reply to.
b) a single static IP address
This is a "permanent" IP address assigned to your end if the link --
again, the DSL modem, cable modem, or aircard (don't know if you
have this option for an aircard. it's up to the provider). Every time you
connect (or turn on your modem/aircard) you will have the same IP
address. One would use this to allow the establishment of connections
*to* you that were initiated from the outside. You host your web page
locally or run a game server that others connect to, etc.
c) multiple static IP addresses
More than one of b) above. This is a matter of reserving those IP
addresses
and traffic routed to any of them will come to you. Think of it as your
modem(s) having more than one IP address.

With the above in mind there are many ways of "sharing" a single link that
has a single IP address. aka Network Address Translation (NAT) and/or
Network Address Port Translation. Something on your end of the link has
a single IP address on the link side and can handle multiple addresses
(different,
usually private) on the other side/inside. It sort of acts like a
connection proxy.

Most of the time these different functions are combined into a single
device.
Router, modem, firewall, homeportal, access point, etc.

Most often a DSL or Cable modem (except the card ones) are also
a router and DHCP server. They handle the link layer modem part,
network address translation, DHCP (dynamic IP assignments) for the
inside network, and routing.

Your Aircard probably doesn't do this. I believe it only does the modem
part (and maybe gets its own IP address on the outside). The modem
part in this case is making the cell call to VZW's modem and probably
running PPP or some other authentication/encapsulation protocol.

SO... to share this connection you would probably use something like
Microsoft's connection sharing or someother scheme where the PC with
the Aircard is the one with the connection and everybody on the inside
talks through it. Connection sharing basically gives you NAT functionality
but uses a different scheme internally.

Bottom line is that, from the perspective of sharing, all the links you
mentioned are the same. For the setups you are familiar with, a) above,
there is no difference and really no way to tell if its being used that way
from the outside.

-Quick
Anonymous
June 17, 2004 1:19:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Can you use Internet Connection Sharing on one computer which should
allow the rest to use the connection of the first?


--
Thomas M. Goethe


"Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jbmb6F107hplU1@uni-berlin.de...
> "Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:NZ0Ac.31461$mz.22919@nwrdny02.gnilink.net
> > "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:2jbhkeFvdr9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >> A question that someone here may or may not be able to answer. I
> >> keep trying Verizon tech support and got many different and
> >> conflicting answers. I have a laptop with an Airprime card and an
> >> unlimited account. One of my office mates has a DSL connection, and
> >> another has a cable internet connection. Work is considering putting
> >> in a wireless network so we can share things like printers dial-up
> >> etc. The DSL people and the Cable people, both say that their
> >> connections/modems can be a shared resource on the network, yet the
> >> Verizon people say that their Airprime card/unlimited access cant be
> >> a shared resource on the network. It seems sort of silly that DSL or
> >> cable can be shared, but the Airprime card can't.
> >> There is one other piece of info making me wonder (and may answer
> >> why we just don't stick with DSL or Cable), The office is looking to
> >> move in a few months to an area that is out of both the DSL and
> >> Cable areas, but has Verizon service, and as a matter of fact, we
> >> are in an area that will be going to Broadband Access in the next
> >> few months, so keeping the unlimited Airprime cards, and putting it
> >> on the network as a shared device, seems to make the most sense. One
> >> of the answers (a majorly absurd one), was that it can only be used
> >> in one machine, and not networked, the card has to be physically
> >> removed from one machine, and inserted into another. That's as silly
> >> as saying you can't use a printer on a network, no network sharing
> >> of printers! It has to be physically disconnected from the machine
> >> it is on and connected to another one! (or an even more absurd
> >> statement, from another tech support (not) person, was that since
> >> you will have 8 machines on the network, you have to buy 8 Airprime
> >> cards and 8 unlimited access accounts!) What is a network for except
> >> to share devices?
> >> I get the feeling that the techies at Verizon really don't want to
> >> consider it, since they can make ridiculous statements and make
> >> Verizon a lot more money.
> >> The other option for the new office would be a Sat internet system,
> >> Both Starband and Direcway say those can be shared devices on a
> >> network!
> >> Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > God your making this way to technical. You cannot use an air card in a
> > shared office environment. One it is used for cellular broadband
> > connection. Secondly on a cable or DSL service a simple broadband
> > router like Linksys (http://www.linksys.com and additional external
> > cardbus (Network Cards) or internal Wireless a/b/g will be able to
> > connect to the net via the placement of the router and the ability to
> > be setup to use that network.
> >
> > If you don't have the router and the network cards you cannot share
> > the connection wireless or via a wired connection.
> >
> > Your Verizon Wireless Aircard is not compatible so that is not going
> > to work in that environment.
> >
> > Oh and I use both a wireless G card and wired connections on my
> > network. They work great. Just be sure to set up individual MAC
> > address filters or you'll have every tom, dick and harry trying to
> > use the connection (DSL or Cable)
> >
> > Elector
>
> Sorry for getting technical here, but tech support seems to have it's
brain
> up it's rear, and gives absurd and conflicting answers.
> Just did a test at a friends, and now I am even more perplexed than ever.
He
> has a cell/MO/wireless network etc, and when he (or anyone else on the
> network) logs on he/they can use the cell link, so now I am even more
> confused why a cell phone/MO can be a shared resource, but an Airprime
card
> can't be!?!
>
> Let me restate, if I connect a cellphone and MO on a networked machine,
make
> it a shared resource, others can use it (just like DSL/Cable/Sat), yet the
> Airprime card that is supposed to be always on (and which can do the even
> higher speed Broadband), can't. So handsets/MO can do it, but the card
> can't, and unfortunately, there's no handset/mo combo at the moment that
can
> use Broadband.
>
> Basically the dilemma is I would like to use my existing card (which is
> still on contract for 6 months, and work will pay for it and the remaining
> contract if I can get it working), or in the new location, they will
> probably just get a Sat system.
>
> The part that's annoying, is that it makes no logical sense for a phone/mo
> combo to work, yet the data card won't.
>
>
Anonymous
June 17, 2004 1:19:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Thomas M. Goethe wrote:
> Can you use Internet Connection Sharing on one computer which
> should allow the rest to use the connection of the first?

That is what connection sharing does.

The downside is that the computer with the physical connection
always has to be there and running for some other computer to
use the connection (it doesn't have to be connected until needed
but 1 particular computer is the designated one all others will
go through).

-Quick
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 6:28:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Peter: you said that tech support gave you conflicting advice. One would
guess it was both yes and no. It would be helpful if you had shared their
advice, then I could give it a go.

Apologies if I'm repeating myself or anyone else:
In my opinion: do not think "modem". Think that once you've got a
connection established, you can share it. But you may need a 2nd network
card. I've always thought it could be done, just haven't tried it.

With two network cards, it "should" be possible. You are connected to the
network with your Aircard. You in turn, serve the other network with from
your 2nd network connection if you have one.

I've always meant to try this, but hadn't. It should be possible, and now
I'm going to wait for your original tech advice on what would/wouldn't work.
I'll need to find a laptop with either a wi-fi or internal 10/100 network
card built in; and then try it with my aircard. I've tried putting two
cards into the pcmcia slots, and the aircard is fat enough and HOT enough
that I choose not to try two cards at the same time. The engineer in me
says YES, the dr says "okay, then (the dr should) make a prototype setup and
prove it". Waiting for your reply.

the dr.

"Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
news:1087416454.87738@sj-nntpcache-3...
> > "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:2jbhkeFvdr9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >> A question that someone here may or may not be able to answer. I
> >> keep trying Verizon tech support and got many different and
> >> conflicting answers.
<snip>
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 6:28:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Found out a bit more, and it's worse than I thought. The older software
(Venturi version numbers given, but it doesn't have to actually be used, v
2.2 and below) has no problem with sharing, but they came out with a new
version (v 2.3) that supports the aircard at broadband speeds, but has a
software patch that SPECIFICALLY stops sharing on a network. From my trials
with an older version of mobile office (v2.1) and a regular cellphone
tethered to a laptop, it worked fine, but when I upgraded to the newer
software, it stopped working!

So it is yes for the old software, and no for the newer software...

ARRRRRRGGGHHH!!



"dr.wireMORE" <dr.wireMORE@VZW-MidWESTma.com> wrote in message
news:WfCBc.6824$Pt.6763@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com
> Peter: you said that tech support gave you conflicting advice. One
> would guess it was both yes and no. It would be helpful if you had
> shared their advice, then I could give it a go.
>
> Apologies if I'm repeating myself or anyone else:
> In my opinion: do not think "modem". Think that once you've got a
> connection established, you can share it. But you may need a 2nd
> network card. I've always thought it could be done, just haven't
> tried it.
>
> With two network cards, it "should" be possible. You are connected
> to the network with your Aircard. You in turn, serve the other
> network with from your 2nd network connection if you have one.
>
> I've always meant to try this, but hadn't. It should be possible,
> and now I'm going to wait for your original tech advice on what
> would/wouldn't work. I'll need to find a laptop with either a wi-fi
> or internal 10/100 network card built in; and then try it with my
> aircard. I've tried putting two cards into the pcmcia slots, and the
> aircard is fat enough and HOT enough that I choose not to try two
> cards at the same time. The engineer in me says YES, the dr says
> "okay, then (the dr should) make a prototype setup and prove it".
> Waiting for your reply.
>
> the dr.
>
> "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
> news:1087416454.87738@sj-nntpcache-3...
>>> "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:2jbhkeFvdr9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
>>>> A question that someone here may or may not be able to answer. I
>>>> keep trying Verizon tech support and got many different and
>>>> conflicting answers.
> <snip>
!