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3589i external antenna?

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Anonymous
June 18, 2004 1:33:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I want to get an external antenna for my '89i, to make this awesome
phone even better in fringe areas. Two questions on that, for anyone
with experience:

1) The traditional external antenna couples a signal through the back
of the phone to the internal antenna. Does that work well??

2) Upon removing the back cover, a connector is visible, presumably
for an antenna. Has anybody used this instead?

thanks...!

More about : 3589i external antenna

Anonymous
June 19, 2004 5:06:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

smokeymike@yahoo.com (smokey mike) wrote in message news:<c1940673.0406172033.7b120557@posting.google.com>...
> I want to get an external antenna for my '89i, to make this awesome
> phone even better in fringe areas. Two questions on that, for anyone
> with experience:
>
> 1) The traditional external antenna couples a signal through the back
> of the phone to the internal antenna. Does that work well??
>
> 2) Upon removing the back cover, a connector is visible, presumably
> for an antenna. Has anybody used this instead?
>
> thanks...!

After lots of research and group effort from a number of 3585/3595i
users, it appears there is only the less desirable inductive type RF
coupler for that nokia series, despite what looks like a possible
external antenna connector hidden under the back cover. No one has
come up with a way to use that hidden port for an external antenna
connector. Apparently, that port lacks the RF connectivity and
physical durability to be used as an antenna connecter. Seems to be a
test port only.


Too bad...a high gain, direct connected external/Yagi antenna,
combined with that phone's already top notch digital performance and
ability to rapidly switch among usable digital networks/bands, has got
more than a few, fringe area, cdma user's curiosity stoked.
Maybe, someone has found the best inductive coupler by now? The other
purpose of a good external would be to boost the somewhat anemic
analog performance.

-
David
Anonymous
June 19, 2004 6:33:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"David L" <davidlind@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e1705cb3.0406190006.7dd73481@posting.google.com
> smokeymike@yahoo.com (smokey mike) wrote in message
> news:<c1940673.0406172033.7b120557@posting.google.com>...
>> I want to get an external antenna for my '89i, to make this awesome
>> phone even better in fringe areas. Two questions on that, for anyone
>> with experience:
>>
>> 1) The traditional external antenna couples a signal through the back
>> of the phone to the internal antenna. Does that work well??
>>
>> 2) Upon removing the back cover, a connector is visible, presumably
>> for an antenna. Has anybody used this instead?
>>
>> thanks...!
>
> After lots of research and group effort from a number of 3585/3595i
> users, it appears there is only the less desirable inductive type RF
> coupler for that nokia series, despite what looks like a possible
> external antenna connector hidden under the back cover. No one has
> come up with a way to use that hidden port for an external antenna
> connector. Apparently, that port lacks the RF connectivity and
> physical durability to be used as an antenna connecter. Seems to be a
> test port only.
>
>
> Too bad...a high gain, direct connected external/Yagi antenna,
> combined with that phone's already top notch digital performance and
> ability to rapidly switch among usable digital networks/bands, has got
> more than a few, fringe area, cdma user's curiosity stoked.
> Maybe, someone has found the best inductive coupler by now? The other
> purpose of a good external would be to boost the somewhat anemic
> analog performance.
>
> -
> David

Here is a link to the user manual for that phone,
http://downloads.nokiausa.com/userguides/3589i.PDF
Page 8 has this info,
ANTENNAS
Your phone has three antennas:
Internal antenna is always active.
Whip antenna is active when fully extended.
The GPS antenna is also internal and is activated
when placing emergency calls or when is selected
from the Location info sharing feature. For more
information on Location info sharing, see "GPS (Location info sharing)" on
page 62.
Do not touch either antenna unnecessarily when the phone is switched on.
Contact with the antenna affects call quality and may cause the
phone to operate at a higher power level than otherwise needed.
While in a call, hold the phone to your ear, placing your finger tips
on the Nokia badge at the mid-center of the back cover (located
below the antenna area on the back of your phone).
=======================================
While what the previous person said seems to be pretty accurate, there are
two points, from the info above, that you need to notice if you want to use
one of those inductive coupler things...or the internal jack/test port
"Whip antenna is active when fully extended". <---- If you do not fully
extend the antenna you have the coupler on, it doesn't do anything.

"The GPS antenna is also internal and is activated when placing emergency
calls or when is selected from the Location info sharing feature." <---- The
test port is actually for the GPS antenna, note that it is not a standard
connection, so you would need an adapter even if selected from the menu.

There is no jack on the phone, but if you don't mind voiding the warranty,
and adding a jack yourself, I added one to mine and wired it to the external
antenna BUT made sure it was always connected, even if the antenna wasn't
extended.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 19, 2004 4:53:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 02:33:35 -0700, Peter Pan
<Marcs1102GSSPAMMENOT@NOSPAMHotmail.com> wrote:


>> After lots of research and group effort from a number of 3585/3595i
>> users, it appears there is only the less desirable inductive type RF
>> coupler for that nokia series, despite what looks like a possible
>> external antenna connector hidden under the back cover.
>>
>
> Here is a link to the user manual for that phone,
> http://downloads.nokiausa.com/userguides/3589i.PDF
> Page 8 has this info,
> ANTENNAS
> Your phone has three antennas:
> Internal antenna is always active.
> Whip antenna is active when fully extended.
> The GPS antenna is also internal and is activated
> when placing emergency calls or when is selected
> from the Location info sharing feature. For more
> information on Location info sharing, see "GPS (Location info sharing)"
> on
> page 62.
> Do not touch either antenna unnecessarily when the phone is switched on.
> Contact with the antenna affects call quality and may cause the
> phone to operate at a higher power level than otherwise needed.
> While in a call, hold the phone to your ear, placing your finger tips
> on the Nokia badge at the mid-center of the back cover (located
> below the antenna area on the back of your phone).
> =======================================
> While what the previous person said seems to be pretty accurate, there
> are
> two points, from the info above, that you need to notice if you want to
> use
> one of those inductive coupler things...or the internal jack/test port
> "Whip antenna is active when fully extended". <---- If you do not fully
> extend the antenna you have the coupler on, it doesn't do anything.

Non sequitor. Nothing in the Nokia instructions implies what you've
incorrectly concluded. The inductive coupler works without the antenna
being extended. Other similar Nokia phones include an inductive coupler
with the car kits. The inductive coupler doesn't couple with the external
whip antenna, but with the internal antenna, which is located in the top
rear of the phone.
Anonymous
June 19, 2004 5:27:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Peter Pan" <Marcs1102GSSPAMMENOT@NOSPAMHotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2jifjhF11k25oU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> "David L" <davidlind@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:e1705cb3.0406190006.7dd73481@posting.google.com
> > smokeymike@yahoo.com (smokey mike) wrote in message
> > news:<c1940673.0406172033.7b120557@posting.google.com>...
> >> I want to get an external antenna for my '89i, to make this awesome
> >> phone even better in fringe areas. Two questions on that, for anyone
> >> with experience:
> >>
> >> 1) The traditional external antenna couples a signal through the back
> >> of the phone to the internal antenna. Does that work well??
> >>
> >> 2) Upon removing the back cover, a connector is visible, presumably
> >> for an antenna. Has anybody used this instead?
> >>
> >> thanks...!
> >
> > After lots of research and group effort from a number of 3585/3595i
> > users, it appears there is only the less desirable inductive type RF
> > coupler for that nokia series, despite what looks like a possible
> > external antenna connector hidden under the back cover. No one has
> > come up with a way to use that hidden port for an external antenna
> > connector. Apparently, that port lacks the RF connectivity and
> > physical durability to be used as an antenna connecter. Seems to be a
> > test port only.
> >
> >
> > Too bad...a high gain, direct connected external/Yagi antenna,
> > combined with that phone's already top notch digital performance and
> > ability to rapidly switch among usable digital networks/bands, has got
> > more than a few, fringe area, cdma user's curiosity stoked.
> > Maybe, someone has found the best inductive coupler by now? The other
> > purpose of a good external would be to boost the somewhat anemic
> > analog performance.
> >
> > -
> > David
>
> Here is a link to the user manual for that phone,
> http://downloads.nokiausa.com/userguides/3589i.PDF
> Page 8 has this info,
> ANTENNAS
> Your phone has three antennas:
> Internal antenna is always active.
> Whip antenna is active when fully extended.
> The GPS antenna is also internal and is activated
> when placing emergency calls or when is selected
> from the Location info sharing feature. For more
> information on Location info sharing, see "GPS (Location info sharing)" on
> page 62.
> Do not touch either antenna unnecessarily when the phone is switched on.
> Contact with the antenna affects call quality and may cause the
> phone to operate at a higher power level than otherwise needed.
> While in a call, hold the phone to your ear, placing your finger tips
> on the Nokia badge at the mid-center of the back cover (located
> below the antenna area on the back of your phone).
> =======================================
> While what the previous person said seems to be pretty accurate, there are
> two points, from the info above, that you need to notice if you want to use
> one of those inductive coupler things...or the internal jack/test port
> "Whip antenna is active when fully extended". <---- If you do not fully
> extend the antenna you have the coupler on, it doesn't do anything.
>
> "The GPS antenna is also internal and is activated when placing emergency
> calls or when is selected from the Location info sharing feature." <---- The
> test port is actually for the GPS antenna, note that it is not a standard
> connection, so you would need an adapter even if selected from the menu.
>
> There is no jack on the phone, but if you don't mind voiding the warranty,
> and adding a jack yourself, I added one to mine and wired it to the external
> antenna BUT made sure it was always connected, even if the antenna wasn't
> extended.

I took apaart my 3585i and here's what I found. The only metallic
contact the external antenna has with the phone, is in the down or
shorted position, when the external is disengaged. There's no direct
electrical contact in the up position with the external antenna.
Appears to be an Inductive type". If there's some gain from the
external, it's from the proximity of the the external to the other
receiver components. This is easy to verify by unsnapping the patch
antenna. There's two tabs, just above the battery. Release and gently
pry up from the bottom. there's one smaller tab on the left top
corner.

One can see the ~35mm GPS antenna segment above the patch cellular
antenna. Didn't notice any antenna pattern inside the plastic patch.
The entire silver colered section is mettalic

The GPS and patch are always connected, at least mechanically. The
supplied external antenna is looking more and more like a placebo.
Don't know how the previous poster hooked up their own
external...there's two small holes in the top of the patch antenna
part(the 1" metallic coated piece of plastic that snaps out) and two
large gold contact pins, which press against the circuit board, just
on the other side.
If someone could come up with an extra "patch assembly", might be an
good location for mounting an external antenna connector, without
having to modify the phone too much. There's quite a bit of space and
nearby large contact pins for attaching or soldering wires.
The GPS antenna is located on the same part. It's a ~35mm metallic "L"
strip.

There's also another "test port", next to the earpiece, on the screen
side of the phone, visible when the faceplate is removed.

Of course it would be much simpler, if Nokia/Verizon had just included
an antenna connector/contacts, either in the bottom of the handset
(still hoping one gets discovered there) or in the usual Nokia 51-61xx
position.

I do not understand how a patch antenna works. There's no familiar
antenna shape, just a rectangular, metallic coated, piece of plastic,
with bare line in an "L" pattern running part way across th patch.
Wonder if the patch and receiver design are optimized for each other?
There's some reason supplied external antenna isn't even hardwired to
the phone?
Do other Nokia patch antenna handsets have ext connecters?

Still want to hook up a Yagi to this phone and see how much
improvement in fringe area D/A reception is possible.

-
David
June 20, 2004 3:35:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

David L <davidlind@my-deja.com> wrote:
: I took apaart my 3585i and here's what I found. The only metallic
: contact the external antenna has with the phone, is in the down or
: shorted position, when the external is disengaged. There's no direct
: electrical contact in the up position with the external antenna.

<snip>

: The GPS and patch are always connected, at least mechanically. The
: supplied external antenna is looking more and more like a placebo.

I've always suspected this - extending the external antenna on my
3589i never seems to make any difference in my average signal
strength. When I put the phone into test mode, I can not see any
difference, on average, by leaving the antenna completely up or down.
Signal strength will always flunctuate regardless of the antenna, so I
so kind of look at the average.

Andrew
--
----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
*******************************************************************
----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info
----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
*******************************************************************
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 3:54:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <e1705cb3.0406191227.2ede9fe1@posting.google.com>,
David L <davidlind@my-deja.com> wrote:
>I took apaart my 3585i and here's what I found. The only metallic
>contact the external antenna has with the phone, is in the down or
>shorted position, when the external is disengaged. There's no direct
>electrical contact in the up position with the external antenna.
>Appears to be an Inductive type". If there's some gain from the
>external, it's from the proximity of the the external to the other
>receiver components. This is easy to verify by unsnapping the patch
>antenna. There's two tabs, just above the battery. Release and gently
>pry up from the bottom. there's one smaller tab on the left top
>corner.
>
>One can see the ~35mm GPS antenna segment above the patch cellular
>antenna. Didn't notice any antenna pattern inside the plastic patch.
>The entire silver colered section is mettalic
>
>The GPS and patch are always connected, at least mechanically. The
>supplied external antenna is looking more and more like a placebo.

I just took apart a 3585i. Amazing - same thing. But then I never noticed
much difference with the antenna extended.

This probably explains why the 6585, which has no external antenna,
has comparable reception to the 3585i-3589i. Apparently, Verizon
isn't going to carry the 6585, even though it undoubtedly would be
quite popular (it is very similar to the Nokia 6200).

All this makes me wonder about the relationship between Nokia and VZW.
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 4:42:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>From: davidlind@my-deja.com (David L)
>Date: 6/19/2004 4:27 PM Eastern

"I took apaart my 3585i and here's what I found. The only metallic contact the
external antenna has with the phone, is in the down or shorted position, when
the external is disengaged. There's no direct
>electrical contact in the up position with the external antenna...."
This may be true for a 3885, but it is WRONG for the 3589i.
If you take off the back cover of a 3589i you can Clearly see that BOTH the
top & bottom of the external rod antenna have the metal contact. When the
antenna is extended it makes contact with the bottom of the whip, & when it is
retracted it makes contact with the top of the whip, (acting as an upside-down
antenna, extending downward into the phone.).
This whip IS the internal antenna of the 3589i when it is retracted.
The test mode of the 3589i always shows a noticable difference in signal
strength for me when the whip is extended, however one must realize that,
unlike the 5185i & other Nokias, the signal strength number is not in "real
time", & is only sampled every 40 to 60 seconds or so. Simply stand up the
nokia somewhere, wait to get a sig reading, extend the antenna & wait 'till it
updates........
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 4:42:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>"I took apaart my 3585i and here's what I found. The only metallic contact the
>external antenna has with the phone, is in the down or shorted position, when
>the external is disengaged. There's no direct
>>electrical contact in the up position with the external antenna...."
> This may be true for a 3885, but it is WRONG for the 3589i.
> If you take off the back cover of a 3589i you can Clearly see that BOTH the
>top & bottom of the external rod antenna have the metal contact. When the
>antenna is extended it makes contact with the bottom of the whip, & when it is
>retracted it makes contact with the top of the whip, (acting as an upside-down
>antenna, extending downward into the phone.).
> This whip IS the internal antenna of the 3589i when it is retracted.
> The test mode of the 3589i always shows a noticable difference in signal
>strength for me when the whip is extended, however one must realize that,
>unlike the 5185i & other Nokias, the signal strength number is not in "real
>time", & is only sampled every 40 to 60 seconds or so. Simply stand up the
>nokia somewhere, wait to get a sig reading, extend the antenna & wait 'till it
>updates........

Extending the antenna gives me around a 3 dBm gain on my 3589i.

1x mode only updates the signal strength at the slow rate. Change to IS-95 or
analog mode and it updates once a second.
--
Dave
Visit my New England Cell Phone Page at
http://markson.net/cell_phones.htm
(to reply take out the "remove" in my e-mail)
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 8:03:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Dave Markson <dave@markson.removeit.net> wrote in message news:<af3bd0ljcnapmf1ultv1cf33cv9pvarngs@4ax.com>...
> Extending the antenna gives me around a 3 dBm gain on my 3589i.


I have found the same. And one can verify also that if the whip is in
the middle position (neither fully up nor down) the sig strength
suffers a few dB.

Note that the whip probably only helps for the 850 band signals, where
it makes the phone ~1/2 wave long. For the 1850 band, the collapsed
antenna is already ~1/2 wave long.

By the way, what's under the sticker beneathe the batterywhich says
"do not remove this sticker"??

-mike
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 4:41:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

smokeymike@yahoo.com (smokey mike) wrote in message news:<c1940673.0406201503.1ff856a1@posting.google.com>...
> Dave Markson <dave@markson.removeit.net> wrote in message news:<af3bd0ljcnapmf1ultv1cf33cv9pvarngs@4ax.com>...
> > Extending the antenna gives me around a 3 dBm gain on my 3589i.
>
>
> I have found the same. And one can verify also that if the whip is in
> the middle position (neither fully up nor down) the sig strength
> suffers a few dB.
>
> Note that the whip probably only helps for the 850 band signals, where
> it makes the phone ~1/2 wave long. For the 1850 band, the collapsed
> antenna is already ~1/2 wave long.
>
> By the way, what's under the sticker beneathe the batterywhich says
> "do not remove this sticker"??
>
> -mike

Ok a little recap..

The external antenna on the 3585i/3595i and others does improve signal
strength, but my take a while to show up on the debug screen.

The 3595i has three antennas, a patch a gps and a whip.
The whipo does have metal contacts at the top and the bottom. However,
in the extended position the bottom metallic sleeve does not connect
to any metallic part. It's just a plastics sleeve next to and held on
by the patch antenna. So the external antenna still some kind of
inductive signal transfer. Not a bad thing, just surprising. I assume
Nokia has more sophisticated methods of designing and measuring RF
transfer than my continuity tester:) 
It appears that patch attenna location is also used by other inductive
type pickups for external antenna applications.

The "do not remove patch" is a water damage indicater, changes color
when dunked. Or so I've heard...

So, anyone inspired to removed an external antenna connecter from a
junk 5100/6100 nokia, drill a hole in the 3585i/3595i patch assembly
then run a couple of leads to the patch contact pins...then use a
common Nokia adapter to hook a Yagi/magmount up to the 3585/3595i?? A
hole will need be drilled in the back case as well.
Not sure wether to go as far as to to scratch off contacts to the
patch, in order to disengaged any possible signal interaction. To
switch back to stock, just snap in an unmodified patch assembley and
perhaps use an undrilled back cover.

The point is to provide a direct antenna connection, as opposed to
using the available inductive pickup exteranl adapter, which is the
only method of attaching an external antenna for this model phone.
Hopefully, hard wiring will improve signal transfer, over the
inductive design especially with 800 analog.

Neeed a junk Nokia's ext connecter and another patch assembly...though
I doubt drilling one hole in the patch is going to make a huge
difference.
-
David
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 8:48:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I'm screwed:( 

I wouldn't recommend taking off the internal antenna modual, and if
you do, don't break off the _very_ brittle contact;-(
Guess it's a comparitivley cheap lesson, in why not to take apart
one's phone. Nokia only sells this part to service level 2 shops and
they want $40 to for the "repair"! Jeez it's a snap in part, $4.50
from Tessco and takes less than 1 minute to replace. But with
controlled parts distribution through Nokia, and the requirement to
follow specific repair procedures, by certified technician.... it gets
expensive real quick.
The tech said something about training for each new model. Also using
torque settings and screw tightening patterns on phones. Although not
complicated, mostly modular plug ins, there's a bit more finesse to
taking apart and putting together handsets, than I have been aware of.

Anyway, the tech said it is recommended the whole modual be replaced
once removed...of course he'd say that, but it's sort of believable,
in a world full of robot assembly lines and brittle contact pins.

If anyone has a dead 3585i or any other of the Nokia dualband 35xx
series, I sure could use an antenna modual, Part Number 0660284.


Now where's some conductive epoxy and a small wire...?

-
David
Anonymous
June 23, 2004 12:33:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

>I'm screwed:( 
>
>I wouldn't recommend taking off the internal antenna modual, and if
>you do, don't break off the _very_ brittle contact;-(

Ouch. It may be cheaper to pick up a 3585 at Wal-Mart.
--
Dave
Visit my New England Cell Phone Page at
http://markson.net/cell_phones.htm
(to reply take out the "remove" in my e-mail)
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 3:40:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Dave Markson <dave@markson.removeit.net> wrote in message news:<gtjhd01bkvrmpkdv1gk4qrh0ctv08gs48n@4ax.com>...
> >I'm screwed:( 
> >
> >I wouldn't recommend taking off the internal antenna modual, and if
> >you do, don't break off the _very_ brittle contact;-(
>
> Ouch. It may be cheaper to pick up a 3585 at Wal-Mart.

I don't use the phone much...so I cut out a piece of very thin
stainless steel and shoved it in the slot, replacing the original gold
contact pin, bending it to match the other existing contact. Works
fine, for now. If I lose contact and signal, a drop of conductive glue
on the end of the replacement contact will be the next step...
No more taking phones apart for fun!

-
David
!