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Nvidia CEO Talks Fermi Shortages, But Feels Good

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April 13, 2010 1:50:44 AM

I really hope they are dedicating resources (ie some good engineers) to the manufacturing process. Nvidia can't be a big player in the desktop graphics sector if they can't efficiently produce their own hardware.

For the consumer's sake, I hope Nvidia pulls through strong. Competition is key for us (the consumers). ATI has done a great job with their latest cards, but we need someone to challenge them and challenge them good.
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April 13, 2010 1:57:45 AM

You'd think after the 20000th Launch-shortage that they'd have learned by now.....
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April 13, 2010 1:59:27 AM

only time will tell
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April 13, 2010 2:06:12 AM

Cannot wait for 250 dollar 5850.
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April 13, 2010 2:22:19 AM

Sorry Nvidia, ATI beat you to this one and still is winning.
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April 13, 2010 2:23:56 AM

Just wondering how their low-ends will look when they come out, seeing as they have problems with those I'm thinking >$100.
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April 13, 2010 2:26:59 AM

nVidia can have the performance crown for all I care, all I want is bang for the buck and ATI provides it.
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Anonymous
April 13, 2010 2:28:06 AM

He's still a crappy CEO.
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a b Î Nvidia
April 13, 2010 2:29:55 AM

As for fanboy rigs go I got all 3 of them that is right one ATI rig that a I use daily as a workstation while a Nvidia setup with dual 9800gt in sli on a xfx 780i. The third isn't what most expect its a 3DFX glide box with a voodoo5 5500 which is required if one wants to enjoy the classics of the 90s with out being in software mode.

The song to be playing now about Fermi is Nearer My God To Thee. If Nvidia doesn't pull it around later this generation and next generation it will not be around for much longer before being bought up and operated by someone else.
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April 13, 2010 2:31:50 AM

Eventually these shortages will drive to the AMD camp (for video cards only though, I'm still an Intel fan in the CPU arena).
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April 13, 2010 2:35:52 AM

Marco925You'd think after the 20000th Launch-shortage that they'd have learned by now.....

Naw i think ati and nvidia go for the shortage just to make demand for their cards last longer at higher levels.
Conspiracy!
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April 13, 2010 2:38:38 AM

"We are working with TSMC really closely. They are doing a fab job."

Hahaha nvidia CEO cracks a pun there... :D 
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a b Î Nvidia
April 13, 2010 2:39:41 AM

"Two years ago, I was just fantasizing about it." - it still is since you cant buy any!

"Huang blames some of the criticism on the fact that Nvidia didn't give reviewers enough time to evaluate the product" - I did not realize the cards ran cooler and used less power over time?!


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April 13, 2010 2:43:01 AM

"Two years ago, I was just fantasizing about it."

get a room .... and a reality check
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April 13, 2010 3:10:55 AM

"the next manufacturing transition that it expects to occur in 18 months."

So thats gtx 580 in 18 months? surely ati will be close to releasing HD7000 series cards by then?
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April 13, 2010 3:21:07 AM

Man this dude is hilarious, he reminds me of the Information minister of Iraq "we will roast their stomatchs".
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April 13, 2010 3:26:56 AM

"Huang blames some of the criticism on the fact that Nvidia didn't give reviewers enough time to evaluate the product"

They would have had their reviews done last year but they couldn't get their hands on the green cards. All they could get was red.

And in 18 months the next die shrink will take place for nvidia. The gt5 or gt6 series (never know with nvidia) will be 40nm. No shrink there, so it should be released within 18 months, I hope for them.
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April 13, 2010 3:36:34 AM

I need to start saving some of this spin to a file somewhere.

I don't know if it'll be as funny ten years down the road as it is now, but it's really good right now!
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April 13, 2010 3:41:06 AM

Next manufacturing process they will be die shrinking the 480 and selling it as a new product. 8800/9800/GTS 250 anyone?
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April 13, 2010 5:30:04 AM

He is proably high on meth lol
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April 13, 2010 5:43:46 AM

Are the 68xx cards coming out later this year?
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April 13, 2010 6:01:47 AM

@dreamphantom - Your case and water cooling setup would still be good for an ATI card.
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April 13, 2010 6:02:29 AM

TomD_1"the next manufacturing transition that it expects to occur in 18 months."So thats gtx 580 in 18 months? surely ati will be close to releasing HD7000 series cards by then?


If Nvidia is seriously looking at 18 months for their next product to hit the market, ATI is going to run away with the ball since there is already talks of their next line-up within the next 12 months or less along with the strong lead they already have over Nvidia having had their HD5000's out for so long. Seriously Nvidia better be hoping to take the CUDA world by storm because at present rate, they have failed the graphics/rendering race by far.
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April 13, 2010 6:06:32 AM

who cares if he feels good?
get them cheaper..everyone knows we need the competition for ATi, or they'll end up just like nVidia when they had the monopoly
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Anonymous
April 13, 2010 6:21:21 AM

Worst CEO I've seen. Second only to AMD's previous blunder, Ruiz. He's going to drive this company into the ground. All ego, no results. If the board had any clue they would drop him, just like I did with my Nvidia shares.
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April 13, 2010 6:26:04 AM

Quote:
Even with the problems at the 40nm process, the Nvidia wants to transition its full product line for the sake of higher margins


G92c anyone? snicker snicker snicker
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April 13, 2010 6:26:25 AM

Come-on people, do you realise that there are clearly driver issues as seen on most gaming benchmarks where the GTX 295 match or beat the performance of the GTX 480 in Far Cry 2? Do not forget ATI's strugle with it's die shrink problems with the ATI 2900XT, Nvidia is hitting the same problems ATI did.
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Anonymous
April 13, 2010 6:31:19 AM

just hurry up and step up production nvidia. i hate the fact that i just paid marked up value for a 5850 when it should be 260 again.
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April 13, 2010 6:35:22 AM

Huang's "Yields are improving," comment just cracks me up. If the rumor mill is even close, claiming 5-10% yield, and they go from 5-10% to 10-15%, technically it may have doubled. Unfortunately, it's still a rather piss-poor yield percentage. Really, the only way to go is up as it really couldn't get much worse.

Of course, no actual yield numbers will be released. Can't scare off the stockholders!
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Anonymous
April 13, 2010 6:42:35 AM

Dedicating "several" engineers for manufacturing issues is a nice PR, but utterly useless, activity. Nvidia engineers are not going to address TSMC yield issues and if it is a design issue/marginality they need design engineers on the problem to provide more margin for the process but this means new tapeouts/silicon spins and months (if not quarters) worth of time.

Putting 'several' engineers to look at TSMC manufacturing issues is the ultimate "lipstick on a pig" effort meant to appease analysts and trick non-technical, non-industry folks.

ATI/AMD actually designed in some redundancy and didn't push the design as agressively knowing some of the potential issues with 40nm, Nvidia appears to have pushed the envelop. It also helps that they have a smaller chip and were not really doing a new architecture but I think Nvidia was too aggressive with the design and when that happens you can either simplify the design or get ready to grind out multiple Silicon Revs (A1, A2, A3...) and deal with shortages
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April 13, 2010 6:59:13 AM

To all the "ATI beat NVIDIA this time and is still winning" boys: pleeease continue!
The more ranting is on the net, the less people will try to get the first wave of the cards. So I get mine sooner. And then, when the drivers mature, and all see ATI just can't win against this one, I won't be having the problem of getting one anymore.
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April 13, 2010 7:32:52 AM

verunTo all the "ATI beat NVIDIA this time and is still winning" boys: pleeease continue!The more ranting is on the net, the less people will try to get the first wave of the cards. So I get mine sooner. And then, when the drivers mature, and all see ATI just can't win against this one, I won't be having the problem of getting one anymore.


by the time the drivers mature many nvidia owners will have a roasted dead card on their hands
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a b Î Nvidia
April 13, 2010 8:25:26 AM

The thing that seems to go over JHH's head and those of the people interviewing him is that this 'TSMC issue' is not unique to nVidia, ATi/AMD had to use the same process, and earlier in the cycle, yet they are able to produce more cards.

It's strategic decisions that affected the outcome this time around, not a lack of engineers (too later to try and fix this without a new metal layer). Those strategic decisions were made well into last year, and that responsibility lies at the feet of upper management, not the engineers.

The only thing nVidia management did right was to chum the waters with promises and rumours and FUD to keep people interested and delay them from switching sides. Not admirable, but effective non the less.

Now comes the hard part, making money from the cut-throat mid-range market while waiting for a manufacturing transition to help cure some of the ills of the line.

By the looks/sounds of it, similar to the HD2900 for AMD/ATi, Fermi will be nVidia's watershed moment that causes them to re-focus and re-think their future, which should lead to more competitiveness then, but likely not now (similar to the GF8800 era).
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April 13, 2010 8:40:03 AM

Remember they had Intel's Larrabee threatening to enter the GPGPU arena and this pushed them to put in more compute based features than was required.

During the next fab shrink, if they do a straight multiply and shrink paying close attention to power and heat then they should beat AMD.

Fermi is a solid architecture for both gaming and compute applications, it was just implemented prematurely in the wrong fabrication process (40nm).

In the next round AMD will need to beef up its geometry and tessellation to match Nvidia's and at that point the to architectures will tend to even out.

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Anonymous
April 13, 2010 9:37:34 AM

Its official, just looked at my Personal PC Parts savings account and it tells me it will be the big bad 6XXX series card for my next GPU upgrade, third time ATi for me after years of Nvidia, Heck haven't Bought a Nvidia card for a customers Machine in years now that I think of it.
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April 13, 2010 10:43:56 AM

"Even with the problems at the 40nm process, the Nvidia wants to transition its full product"
Ah, maybe they could rebrand the 8800GT, I mean GTS250 to a 3xx series!
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April 13, 2010 11:55:23 AM

I've noticed a lot of talk about the AMD 6xxxs on here.

Have there been any leaks? I know AMD doesn't keep blowing sweet nothings at us like nVidia, but I'm just curious.
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April 13, 2010 12:02:18 PM

I wonder what happened to larrabee was it? can it destroy the 5000 series and fermi ?
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April 13, 2010 12:55:42 PM

he is still fantisizing on beating AMD too....
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April 13, 2010 1:36:57 PM

dreamphantom_1977I'm still running a single 8800gtx. I never thought it would last this long. If I get a fermi card and it last's half as long i'll be happy. The only things that are stopping me from buying an ati are physX, tessellation, and 3d 3-way monitor setup. I plan on buying another card as soon as I can afford it. Gonna have to up my power supply first. I know tessellation is gonna be a huge feature in future games. I'm sure of it, because it's so easy for programmers to take advantage of it, and thats a huge selling point of fermi. I agree with everyone about waiting to do a die shrink, but I just can't wait. Been waiting to long. And who knows how long that will take or how much trouble they will have with 32nm. Could be a couple of months, could be a couple of years.



Come on, 3d gaming is a gimmick. So is anything 3d for that matter.
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April 13, 2010 1:46:24 PM

Um Dreamphantom, Physx is beyond useless, all DX11 GPU's have tesselation (it's kinda the defining DX11 feature), and 3d 3 way monitor gaming isn't happening anytime soon.
It'll remain a marketing gimmick until next gen consoles come out(2014 earliest), and ONLY if they support 3D gaming. If not, then no developer is gonna make 3D games.
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April 13, 2010 1:56:18 PM

Quote:
According to something I've read recently due to TMSC scrapping the 32nm process all manufacturers need to push back and scrap their plans. That might mean that all new architecture won't be available by AMD this year. Although would have been ready for mass production in the second half of this year. This also means that no die shrinks will happen before 2011 most probably which is bad for consumers.

Scrapping 32nm process? Care to cite a source?

Even if they have/did/do, this isn't really bad news. Being forced to work with a more mature 40nm process means they might finally get decent yields. Can you imagine that? No more production shortages! Lowered production costs! Combine the two and you've got yourself a consumer win!
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April 13, 2010 2:28:10 PM

RazberyBandit said:
Scrapping 32nm process? Care to cite a source?

Even if they have/did/do, this isn't really bad news. Being forced to work with a more mature 40nm process means they might finally get decent yields. Can you imagine that? No more production shortages! Lowered production costs! Combine the two and you've got yourself a consumer win!



This could be what he was refering to: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/201004011714...

It's still not really clear if it will be the 6000 series though, or just a revamp of the 5000 series. Maybe a 5880, and 5890 with a larger memory bus. Larger than 256 bus, and default core clocks at 1.0Ghz and higher would be nice. From what they say in the article, this gpu will not be the full next gen card, but a hybrid that uses tech from the 5000 series and a future GPU series, so it would be nice if they didn't try to pass it off as the 6000 series. Of course this is all just speculation on my part. :p 
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April 13, 2010 2:57:57 PM

Well i can't afford a $300+ video card, so GTX 275 here i come...just come down a little...
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April 13, 2010 3:04:21 PM

If you wanna buy a 480 Tigerdirect has them in stock now Galaxy GTX 480s just bought two of them last night.
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a b Î Nvidia
April 13, 2010 3:12:14 PM

I get the feeling AMD isn't scared at all by Fermi. NVidia needs a revision before they can have decent yields, and by that time AMDs next set of cards will be out.
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April 13, 2010 4:09:49 PM

Why are folks rating down the nVidia fanboys? We should be thanking them because if NO ONE drank their koolaid, our AMD cards would be that much more expensive. We need sheep to keep buying crappy products for this illusion of competition to continue...
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April 13, 2010 4:39:49 PM

tinytim67Worst CEO I've seen. Second only to AMD's previous blunder, Ruiz. He's going to drive this company into the ground. All ego, no results. If the board had any clue they would drop him, just like I did with my Nvidia shares.


I'm glad someone else realizes what a complete failure Ruiz was, and is. This ass-clown is responsible for the failure of AMD right now, and the horrible CPUs they currently sell. Now before the AMD supporters get outraged, keep in mind the Phenom X4 is roughly the same size of the Nehalem, both on the same process technology, and gets destroyed by it. It's a bad design and Ruiz was the general behind this development, Jerry Sanders is who ran the ship during the development of the K7.

Nvidia needs someone a bit more professional. He's not as incompetent as Ruiz (who is?), and certainly not as visionless (again, who is?), but he's brash, obnoxious, and unprofessional and rubs way too many people the wrong way.

Nvidia is in a bad way. They don't make CPUs, and the merging of CPU/GPU is already starting, and with their chipset market basically going away, they are in a tough spot. They're pursuing a strategy I thought would fail completely - making the GPU more and more for things besides graphical processing. It's not as clear they are failing as I thought they would, so I guess he deserves credit there. He's done pretty well with the cards he was dealt.

The bigger, larger, more powerful GPU designs don't seem to be winning a lot of the hearts of gamers who write here. I guess ATI's approach makes more sense to more people here, as they don't seem as obsessed with making the unit enormous.

I don't share the belief that we need Nvidia. I've had nothing but headaches with their lousy chipsets (lucky, they are belly-up in that market now), and headaches with their graphics cards too (more than ATI, but I'm sure others have a different opinion). But, more to the point, Intel is getting into the graphics market, and while I don't doubt their first few products will have issues (Larrabee 1 already has), I wouldn't bet against them forever. They'll figure it out in time.
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Anonymous
April 13, 2010 5:16:47 PM

I am still running a 8800 GT 512M and probably the best bang per dollar after three years. I can wait for the ATI 6xxx or the next Nvida series.
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