The Spiritual Thread. Welcom!

It is simply that, nothing more nothing less. In these days of "Intellectual" domination is it not a good thing to occasionnally turn to more delicat matters, matters of the heart.

Brothers and Sisters ! We may dwell into the study of the inner workings of quantum mechanics or string physics with the aid of sophisticated electronic equipment or we may dwell on the possibilities of fabrication processes to exploit new multilayered processor technology. We may dwell on so so many other worthy physical projets. Our intellectual capacities have but now only recently been awakened...

However, no one can dispute that a duality exists in the makeup of the humand psyche. Call it as you wish: "intellect/emotion", "feminin/masculin", "energy/matter" or "spirit/body"!

I humbly start this thread to discuss and to share any and all views on this subjet. Please contribute what you can.

To start things off may I simply post a very modest view of reality from an American Indian...
<<<De : Cherokee 3 Envoyé : 20/05/2002 13:43
Like Cat I had an atrocious childhood, and prefer to forget about it. It colored my world for many years until I learned a simple fact....quit looking outside for your peace for it is within YOU! You cannot change the whole world..but you can change your little corner of it. In this modern day how many people do you smile at when you walk down the street? That smile could change ONE person's whole day, and perhaps they would smile in return. Perhaps that what those with despair in their eyes are looking for; they think the world has forgotten them, they have become invisible to the rest of the world. They want hope, friendship, and a little love the same as we do. The world has accelerated to where no one "has the time" anymore. Make the time. An extra second? An extra minute? And if someone looks hungry and you have a dollar, what could you do better with it than know that person could at least get a burger at Macs?? My mind and heart always tells me..what if that were me? If someone, even a friend, just needs an ear to listen to their problem for a moment..do you have the time? If a child needs a little attention, do you say "don't bother me, I'm busy?" What if you had a heart attack in the next moment...and there was no more time? You could not change those last words? Not to the person on the street and not to your child? When did you last say I love you and hug someone, regardless of whether they are a child or a grown up? In an age of "Road Rage" I think we all need to do a reassesment of our priorities. As you all know I recently had to re-evaluate mine. So forget the stero typical poker face...and smile once in awhile. Here's one to start you off :-) peace, blessings, & love.

"I always though the real world is what we make of it" Jodie Foster in CONTACT. Carl Sagan.

Reply to pike

I once heard that it takes like 16 muscles to smile :smile: , and like 95 not to :frown: .

...but you are right, most people dont smile around you these days. They must be hard working people, i hope they dont pull a muscle...

love= :smile:

Reply to globe111

I call it Yin and Yang, did you know the chinese had yin and yang universities teaching the philosophy 2000 years before christianity, now thats old.
We tend to think of religion and christianity, because thats the one that makes the most noise, but there are dozens of others.
I myself am not a believer, and believe that religion is a crutch for weak people to lean on, but thats another story.
As Limp Bizkit says. You gotta have FAIIIIIIIITHH!!!!!!

Reply to Anonymous

there are many of us out there (including myself before) where I had to have all of my 5 sences convinced before I believed in something.

But as Pike has relayed, there is that inner being, I call it a soul, (most of us will agree we have it)
And this soul cant be seen, heard, smelled, touched, or tasted- yet we know its there,
we feel it, and we know its true.

...but dont worry, I wont beat anyone up with my crutch :wink:

A person who asks a ? might be a fool for 5 min., but a person who doesnt ask is a fool forever

Reply to globe111

Quote :

I myself am not a believer, and believe that religion is a crutch for weak people to lean on, but thats another story.

believer or non-believer, the bottom line is this: We all will find out the truth eventually.

It's always the one thing you never suspected.

Reply to jlanka

I heard it takes 17 muscles to smile but only 3 to raise my middle finger. (Something like that)

Garbage Can?

Reply to buddry

...religion is what you make it, if it provides a sense of inner peace, go for it. I am not a "believer" either, but, if the natives rub blue mud in their belly, what's a little mud between friends....

"But I don't have an "any" key...

Reply to rtfm7235

The truth? You can't handle the truth!

I have a computer and it does weird stuff. please help.

Reply to dhlucke

can hooters be counted as bieng spiritual?

My Next Performance System!!! - P4 Celleron, 128k cache, SDRAM, Integrated graphics, 5400rpm HDD!

Reply to lhgpoobaa

But, the truth is out there!

qlm tera'ngan!
(Translated from Klingon: Attention Earther!)

Reply to GearJammer2513

thanks a lot Jack. ;-)

BTW, congrats on Forum Fixture...

It's always the one thing you never suspected.

Reply to jlanka

Are there not some events in life that make you ask yourself: "Is this all there is? Is this all I am?".

Are there not times in life when you tell yourself: "I can be better than this! I could have been so much wiser than this! I am here, than I will be no more! Why? WHY?
Dammit! I ask myself the question, again and again. If there is no answer to be found, why then am I so bent on asking the question?"

pike

<<<<For all of us who suffer.....

The Other Side

Through each lifetime, rotten rivers to cross.
But what if there's no lifeline and you're sinking or lost?
Just believe in your direction and let your heart explore
'Cause you can't reach new horizons standing on the shore.

And there are mountains we need to climb,
But the moutains standing in our way our only in our minds.
And the risk of going nowhere is the greatest risk of all.
So just listen to the voice that says, "I'll catch you if you fall."

On the other side of doubt is [confidence].
On the other side of pain lies strength.
The journey may seem endless when you know the road is rough,
But on the other side of fear.... is love.

For such a long time I put my dreams aside.
The tides of change felt dangerous, the mountain seemed too high.
But my dreams were slowly fading as time went quickly by,
So I took a breath with every step, never knowing I would find...

On the other side of doubt is [confidence].
On the other side of pain lies strength.
The journey may seem endless when you know the road is rough,
But on the other side of fear....is love.
~Richard Wold

Buddha's final words of advice come to my mind....

"Behold, O monks, this is my last advice to you. All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Work hard to gain your own salvation."

"I always though the real world is what we make of it" Jodie Foster in CONTACT. Carl Sagan.Edited by pike on 05/22/02 12:31 PM.

Reply to pike

If any of you are interested in what I am going threw and also generally interested in esoterism/mysticism this is for you:

From "Buddhist Philosophy" MSN Community Forum

<<<<
From: Gesu (Original Message) Sent: 02/05/2002 12:48 PM

Below is what I have written for Kundalini Survival and Support, through the ages very few people have understood what was happening within the mind , after the princess rises. It is no different in some respects to when someone falls into depression, you have to fight your own mind, but what is behind your mind. After six years spiritually induced mental pain, written below is only a small discription of the vastness of the darkness. Of courses it is only my interpretation of an assault of my sanity, but it will give you an idea what spirituality is about.

http://members.aol.com/ckress/st.html http://kunalini-support.com/

Enlosed is a brief history of my own experiences along with a part of what I have learned in the past six years.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o>My story opens a little differently, for I was having Kundilini symptoms prior to what I thought was my Kundilini arousal. It was initiated at first by a telepathic message that was sent to me by my x-girlfriend after I broke up with her. As a teenager and as an adult I appeared sensitive to certain areas of thought in relationship to spirits, and she was testing me. I received her message in what you would describe as a mild rising of the princess. Small bombs or explosions going off in the chest, heat vibrations, goose bumps and the strange feeling of sexuality along with a very comfortable and rewarding feeling I ever had.

<o> </o>During the next nine months I was constantly subjected to a very pleasant sensation of heat in the chest, which I suspect it to come from my x showing her love one way or another. Till one day it became an inferno, causing me to think of a Doctor, except it was Wednesday and he was not in. I started to consider going to the emergency room and thought I should at least check my temperature before I left, except my temperature was only 95.5 degrees, not exactly on fire but I was burning up.

<o> </o>I ended up in a book store reading about Chakras and eastern Philosophy and started to realize that I was in communication with my x-girlfriends soul, my own soul, or some spirit that was guiding me.

<o> </o>It was roughly three months later that I felt I had a full Kundilini awakening not as intense as others would describe there own, but it was enough for me to realize, I was no longer hungry and for being winter in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1lace>Ohio</st1lace></st1:State>, I felt I could run around naked outdoors.

<o:p> </o:p>A few months later my two sons started to accept the fact that I was not going crazy for they started to see and do strange things, including remembering times when they found themselves in space or the universe when there were teenagers.

<o:p> </o:p>That was six years ago, today as I write this I will make a lot of claims, which you will suspect that I am one of those with the messiah syndrome, and that might be rightly so.

<o:p> </o:p>For once I came in communication with that spirit within; it guided me to the point of no more learning in all the major religions and Yoga which my words may run parallel to your opening statements pertaining to eastern philosophy.

<o:p> </o:p>I will use Hinduism to the best of my ability to describe what I have learned. The initial awakening of the spirit within is not the true Kundilini princess, she is there more as Sakti, the energy within governing the lower three Chakras. Shiva governs the upper four Chakras, when these Chakra points line up which would cause the original Kundilini Princess to rise instead, it becomes a battle ground, who is stronger, the Terrestrial God or the Celestial god. You could also look at as a combination of the energy and princess just formed; this is one of the reasons why there is so much conflict, pain and despair with the emergence of the gods. Eventually, if you meditating you may notice abstract patterns of color that seem to dance within you mind that may look like, male and female sexual organs. This is Shiva and the princess dancing, and possibly one day you are going to receive the strangest feeling to imagine yourself as a huge penis {the Linga in Hinduism} and as you become a part of this bizarre ritual in your mind, you bring the two Gods together, to copulate and give life to your own soul. You will probably question me on that; give life to your own soul for you have not been born yet.

<o:p> </o:p>It does not matter what religion you believe in even Jesus stated you have to be born again, in Hinduism it is a little different, they say Enlightenment is the only way to find Heaven in a way Jesus is saying the same thing. So in the truest sense with the rising of the princess you are born again or enlightened.

<o:p> </o:p>As for understanding what is happening in the body, a little bit of Hinduism will help, in this world there is nothing real, everything is an illusion including your physical self, so what does that mean. When giving birth to your spirit which was the only object that you know to be real, it begins a learning period to know how to exist in what we call a death realm and what I become to know as true life.

<o:p> </o:p>If you can accept the fact that you do not exist, it would be easier to overcome some of the symptoms that are associated with the rising. There is a struggle with the god of nature and the god of the heavens. One is constantly telling you that you have a body the other is saying no, you are a god.

<o:p> </o:p>There is a reason for it; I have come to learn through a lot pain and grief, that this world we believe to be real along with all its surroundings is a continuous dream, a state of death that is referred to as Bardo. This is one of the reasons why some many people go to doctors and have weird Delta score readings; for you are really sleeping and you have reached the highest state of All Consciousness [Buddhism, Hinduism]. This allows you if you notice to think quite clearly in your sleep dreams, that is if you still dream. It also allows determining where you will go when you die, for nature will follow most people into the grave, along with all their desire of food, sex and the most will still have some sort of thought.

<o:p> </o:p>To become comfortable in the transition states, if you can come in communication with the inner spirit and set up a dialogue through the Chakras you will recognize its voice. Those vibrations that you have and gut feelings are the inner spirit yelling out to you. If you can associate a thought with a feeling, you will be able to communicate with your own self. Some individuals will even be able to communicate through another individual such as a wife or husband that may sound possessed.

<o:p> </o:p>The biggest thing I have come to realize is that the nature aspect will do anything it can to discourage you in giving up the physical life you know. It will threaten you with all kind of ailments and fear of ailments, diseases and medical necessities to keep a grasp on you. In all reality to overcome the nature side, you have to become the God you were created to be, for there is no other way of getting into Heaven. So you have to overcome all fear of dying, any fear that has been developed in this world, what eventual happens you become a person without emotion, within the dualistic mind frame of Hinduism a watcher a non doer. So as a watcher in this dream you start period of adjustment, you only observe and stop participation. For the fact is that you start switching position with your own soul, a mirror image, if you started to notice that you physical mind is not as sharp as it use to be, not interested in watching or doing things as you use to be able to and really do not care about anything anymore is because that spiritual side of yourself is becoming everything that you were in the physical state, instead you are becoming awake in the spiritual state, it is a trade off, are you looking for eternal life and to be free from all control, it is up to you, its your choice if you have the strength to become that god, you have to fight for it.

<o:p> </o:p>I will give you some warnings, if you are willing to fight back, it will be painful whether physically or emotionally. If you capable of coming in contact with your inner nature it on occasion will lie to you; if someone or something tells you that you have to do something or you cannot do something, it is coming from the wrong side of your soul. The higher aspect will give you very subtle hints in dream and visions, but will never tell you what to do. Because this is a dream and a horrendous mind game, there are no sins, no rules; you can not feel guilty about anything, for this is a handle that nature uses to control you through guilt and fear. If you forgive yourself everyday in the beginning you will notice recurring dreams showing up that were really bizarre and guilt laden. Cleansing the dark areas of the subconscious allowing depression to slowly dwindle away.

<o:p> </o:p>The second warning is once started on the path and in contact with the unknown while reaching different levels of acceptance. Everything changes; the hand that reaches out to help you overcome eventually will try to confuse you. What really is happening is that your inner nature is trying to make you strong enough to stand on your own two feet to be that person who you were created to be.

<o:p> </o:p>In the truest sense of what I am saying is if you can overcome the physical mind which is what the Buddhist and the Hindus call the veil of ignorance you will find the Garden of Eden or if you want to call it heaven it is right here.

<o:p> </o:p>For eventually you will come to realize that you do not have to do anything here, most individuals have lost their appetite, and I would suspect also their sex drive. It will even come to point that all of our lives functions are only a dream. Including, breathing, heartbeat and everything we think is necessary to live here. When you start detaching oneself from this illusion, you become who you are to be, I AM.

<o:p> </o:p>In short to overcome the symptoms of the Kundilini rising, you have to realize everything is a thought. A thought that is instilled through nature to control you; if you give into the pain and feelings that are generated through the body, they only get worse. Once you accept them no differently as everyday life or pleasure, they become less noticeable. Any fear or thought that is in your mind that emphasizes a feeling is used against you.

<o:p> </o:p>This is only a short synopsis of the elements that can be construed to ovulate within the mind of an individual with random belongings of additional mind frames.

<o:p> </o:p>You can take what I have written with a grain of salt, it is your choice to listen to me, for my sons, my girlfriend and those around accept and believe it at as the truth.

<o:p> </o:p>If anyone has questions or needs help, I am presently living in <st1:place><st1:City>Atlanta</st1:City>, <st1:country-region>Georgia</st1:country-region></st1:place> and my E-mail is BUDDHA2002@msn.com

<o:p> </o:p>

Love, Richard Stanaszek….A.K.A. Gesu in the msn. Communities
>>>>

pike [cool! is it not?]
[i love ya all]

"I always though the real world is what we make of it" Jodie Foster in CONTACT. Carl Sagan.Edited by pike on 05/24/02 12:01 PM.

Reply to pike

Quote :

"Is this all there is? Is this all I am?".

I find the more I contemplate such matters, the less I actually acheive, due to my belief in myself over all other beliefs. I do believe meditation is an excellent way to allow the body and mind to relax, and it allows you to put things in perspective.

Not so much a religeous aspect, as a personal health and clean mind thing.

Tuppence for free. :smile:

~ What do you mean "It isn't working!"...Now where's my sonic screwdriver? ~

Reply to camieabz

Quote :

Are there not some events in life that make you ask yourself: "Is this all there is? Is this all I am?".

Are there not times in life when you tell yourself: "I can be better than this! I could have been so much wiser than this! I am here, than I will be no more! Why? WHY?
Dammit! I ask myself the question, again and again. If there is no answer to be found, why then am I so bent on asking the question?"

A strong urge at questionning is a natural function that points to the existence of answers.

Not all answers are easely found.
Some answers must not be sought to be found!

pike
:smile:

:lol: If it sucks, pull your zipper down! :lol:

Reply to pike

more , er, info about that kundalini thingy...

<<<<<
De : Gesu Envoyé : 19/05/2002 17:27
Pike,

Slowly you will see what you think is compassion towards your children and other individauls turns to love and understanding without emotion. You may feel cold and undeserving in regards to life in general a lack of appreciation in the moment as I was judged as. But there are benefits from this calmeness of mind for they generate a true knowledge of life without criticism.

As the days turn you will start to notice that you become the watcher in this dream, a part from the rest of the world in different to the surrounding for it is a dream for we are not alive and only play a mind game of this reality.

That is why I say do not put importance on anything the thought of life or any action in this make believe world. For all thoughts or actions will be used against you, you will be place in situations which will cause fear or bliss, so I suggest shed all feelings at the moment till you understand what is happening, which is not easy.

In the truest sense as the Buddha said in the past "Be as a new borne babe, forget everything you know, and do the right thing".

You will be placed in a lot of conflict as you dwell on the problems of the mind, do not fear for one day you will have at-one-moment and realize a truth and there will be many truths, if you realize nothing can hurt you or change your direction, you will escape from fear.

love,Gesu <http://sc.communities.msn.com/img/emoticons/emlove.gif
>>>>>>

Holding his sword of love and his shield of compassion, he went into the world!

Reply to pike

Quote :

I once heard that it takes like 16 muscles to smile , and like 95 not to .

maybe that's why i'm always tired,hmmm.

Quote :

I heard it takes 17 muscles to smile but only 3 to raise my middle finger. (Something like that)

LOL!

Quote :

Are there not some events in life that make you ask yourself: "Is this all there is? Is this all I am?".

pike, when you come to realize you're a meaningless spec of dust in the whole scheme of everything and lose all expectations, it becomes much more pleasant and peaceful. see i already know i'm a worthless piece of sh*t. now i just gotta work on the being happy and enlightened part

[insert philosophical statement here]

Reply to mbetea

Quote :

"I always though the real world is what we make of it" Jodie Foster in CONTACT. Carl Sagan.

- Real Word -
1° Those institutions at which 'programming' may be used in the same sentence as 'FORTRAN', 'COBOL', 'RPG', 'DBASE', etc. Places where programs do such commercially necessary but intellectually uninspiring things as generating payroll checks and invoices.

2° The location of non-programmers and activities not related to programming.

3° A bizzare dimension in which the standard dress is shirt and tie and in which a person's working hours are defined as 9 to 5 (see Code Grinder).

4° Anywhere outside a university. "Poor fellow, he's left MIT and gone into the Real Word." Used pejoratively by those not in residence there. In conversation, talking of someone who has entered the Real Word is not unlike speaking of a deceased person. It is also noteworthy that on the campus of Cambridge University in England, there is a gaily-painted lamp-post which bears the label 'REALITY CHECKPOINT'. It marks the boundary between university and the Real World; check your notions of reality before passing.
This joke is funnier because the Cambridge 'Campus' is actually coextensive with the center of Cambridge town. (see also Fear and Loathing, Mundane and Uninteresting).

- Fear and Loathing -
A state inspired by the prospect of dealing with certain real-word systems and standards that are totally Brain-Damaged but ubiquitous -- Intel 8086, COBOL or EBCDIC or any IBM machine bigger than a workstation. "Ack! They want PCs to be able to talk to the AI machine. Fear and loathing time!"

- Brain-Damaged -
1° generalization of 'Honeywell Brain Damage' (HBD), a theoretical disease invented to explain certain utter cretinisms in Honneywell Multics; Obviously wrong; Cretinous; Demented. There is an implication that the person reponsible must have suffered brain damage, because he should have known better. Calling something brain-damaged is really bad; "Only six monocase characters per files name? Now that's brain-damaged!"

2° (especially from Mac World) May refer to free demonstration software that has been delibately crippled in some way so as not to complete with the product it is intended to sell (synonim: crippleware).

- Crippleware -
1° Software that has some important functionality deliberately removed, so as to entice potential users to pay for a working version.

2° Variety of Quiltware that exhorts you to donate to some charity (compare careware, naqware)

3° Hardware deliberately crippled, which can be upgraded to a more expensive model by a trivial change (e.g. cutting a jumper). An excellent example of crippleware is Intel's 486SX chip, which is a standard 486DX chip with the coprocessor dyked out (in some versions it was present but disabled). To upgrade, you buy a complete 486DX chip with working coprocessor (its identity thinly veiled by a different pinout) and plug it into the board socket. It then disables the SX, which becomes a fancy power sink. Don't you love Intel

note: dont pay attention to the oldness of the examples used, the importance is the message behind which is transported by.

Strange World, isnt it?

The debat is open ...

if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...

Reply to labdog

So you think albert E was weak minded? He was a Christian, and believe it not so was Darwin you latter wished and regretted that his 'story' caught on like it did.
Jesus is The only God according to the bible, he is also the only way to heaven.

Reply to logger

Now you are making sense!

pike

Holding his sword of love and his shield of compassion, he went into the world!

Reply to pike

mb! perhaps the following will give you more inseight..and perhaps not!

<<<<<
** In conversation with God book It is written that after Death You can
return to any planet or any civilization ( there are thousands of such
civilization existing in this Universe ) to any spirit or astral plane and
you can Or stay with ALL THAT IS ( GOD or being or Creator ). There are menu
of innumerable choices after death which one have ( after death as there is
no time and space exist whatever we choose get manifested instantly). It
describe earth as co-created drama/Dream where each one has come due to
desire to Experience it . and what you do or don't do on earth does-not
matter( as it is all drama created by energy units called souls) and after
death heaven & total freedom , love , joy & what ever one want is
guaranteed to everyone (if they want that).
Ganga What you feel about above things I described ?

G: yes... it is true to a point.... you cannot go higher than where you
are.... it is not comfortable for those
of a low nature to reside with those of higher knowing.... their
vibration is to intense.... and indeed
there is the enjoyment of "experience" so you freely choose to
re-incarnate.... but remember Karma
is the law and in place.... so while you get what you want - you
also pay the price.... freewill is in
play but karma is the taskmaster.... eventually you will learn
that

harmony and love release the
pain... and that there is no karma attached to these..... those
that are caught up in personal identity
will not go to the Formless Absolute..... they may go to a realm
where an aspect or form is located....
but eventually all re-enter the play....

>>>>>

pike

Holding his sword of love and his shield of compassion, he went into the world!

Reply to pike

Someone questionned me on this, so here it is:

<<<<<<
De : pike (Message d'origine) Envoyé : 05/06/2002 13:23
I remember, looking at a picture at 4 years old, that I was happy, "I" was there!
I remember, at 10 years old, that I was sad, my parents were fighting, "I" was there!
I remember, at 15 years old, that I was in love with this beautifull girl, "I" was there!
I remember, at 16 years old, that with drugs I sensed a connection between all the people around me and that somehow I was them, "I" was there!
I remember, at 17 years old, with drugs, this connection with people was my undoing and my death had been decided, I closed my eyes and accepted death, "I" was there!
I remember at 18 years old, that my spiritual search was burning me alive and I could not support the pain any longer, I ended my life, "I" was there!
I remember from 18 to 44 years old, everything! "I" was there!

"I" am here
During all those years, everything has changed about myself, with one exception: "I"
I am indeed beginning to discover this elusive "I".
What is the nature of this "I" ?
Is it my ego? No ! My ego is but a creation of the smaller I and not of "I".
Where and when has this "I" appeared as consciousness? At the moment of birth ? At the moment of conception? 100 life cycles ago?

No doubt in my mind that when I die, "I" will continu as awareness and that is why I must strive to enable "I" to maintain an awareness during all states of consciousness, waking, sleeping, dreaming. More subtle practice of meditative techniques will make this possible.

Am I making any sense whatsoever ? Does all this sound like total "rubbish" to you ?

pike <http://sc.communities.msn.com/img/emoticons/emrose.gif>

De : Gesu Envoyé : 05/06/2002 13:52
Your logic is the truth, All Consciousness is the goal !

love,Gesu <http://sc.communities.msn.com/img/emoticons/emlove.gif>

Réponse
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De : Black Water Envoyé : 05/06/2002 14:38
Am I making any sense whatsoever ? Does all this sound like total "rubbish" to you ?

It sounds like projection of awareness onto what may or may not be aware at all.

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De : Palzang Envoyé : 05/06/2002 19:13
Life is like a series of pictures strung together, like a movie. It is our mind that strings them all together into an "I" that seems to exist as a separate entity. Yet when we look back on our life, as you have, Pike, we see that we are really different at different points in that life. Do you look the same now as when you were 4? Do you think the same? Is there one atom in your body now that was there then? Nope. They all change out over time (about every 7 years actually, give or take). So what's the connection, the constant? The deluded belief in "self". That's what goes from moment to moment, from life to life. Only when you can get beyond this belief in "self" and "other" can you truly experience buddhanature.

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De : sevol Envoyé : 05/06/2002 21:44
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In pure direct awareness \emptiness, there is no object, to have an object an observer must be present, and in direct awareness \ emptiness , both observer and observed are not one, they are gone. The moment YOU notice, there is no longer direct awareness , there is a memory...a picture, strung together into an self existing entity......
........ thoughts, thoughts are not YOU, you hear them a split second after, and sometimes you only notice them when you begin to feel them, the awareness we refer to is not pure awareness, it comes after the fact, always after, thoughts and memories are part of the projection, they are the karma part of you, that which projects, forcing you to see things the way you do.

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De : pike Envoyé : 06/06/2002 00:42
Palzang!

When I look back on my life, I seem to feel that in fact there is an entity that simply IS, and is close to unchanging. That, I feel, is the part of the total psyche that we may perhaps call the "witness". You see, I feel a part of me was witnessing all that was happening during those 40 years or so.

Palzang! I remember well that night when I took my life and other times of great anguish and I feel there was a component, what I call the "I", that was untouched by all this emotionnal drama and simply "WAS" and observed.

It is most difficult to grasp and properly discuss with words, but of course that is the tool at our disposal.

<<<<<THGC! This is it!>>>>>
One last experience to perhaps help me in explaining my position, if I may. 6 weeks ago I dreamt of a hellish situation and woke up with a strong feeling of this nature in me. That night, as I walked uneasily towards my basement, I heard sounds. Now here there are definite seperations between events:
1- The sound was perceived (immediatly at this first step, I feel "I" was aware of this sound)
2- then there was a physical response to the perception, or stimuli if you prefer, the physical reaction in this case was goose bumps along my back and an increase of heart beat rate. In essense my body gave me the awareness of FEAR! "I" as always simply observing.
3- My will, my day to day consiousness, perhaps simply "me", did not focus on my bodies signals of fear. I used my will to focus awareness on other things in order of course not to fall into the drama of fear. (no need to mention that this would have been most catastrophic) So then I willed my focus on the steps that I was walking down , then the computer I was stating up, etc. All this time I was in a physical state of fear, as this was the continuous signal from my physical body. Here, once more, "I" was but an observer to all this.

pike :-)

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De : pike Envoyé : 06/06/2002 00:43
Sevol!

thank you!

>>>>>>

pike
[take care]

"Help Needed"! In bringing HEAVEN down to earth!

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