Wireless Gain Antenna for Wifi Card

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Most of the hi-gain antenna I've seen are for the router side of a
wireless network. Does anyone make one for the wireless network card
itself?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On 5 Sep 2004 16:08:44 -0700, tommynospam@yahoo.com (tommy) wrote:

>Most of the hi-gain antenna I've seen are for the router side of a
>wireless network. Does anyone make one for the wireless network card
>itself?

Yes. However, your unspecified wireless network card must have some
type of RF connector. This is one reason that the Senao and
Orinoco(Proxim) cards are so popular. The usual way is to attach a
short pigail between the card and the antenna. Then, you can use any
antenna that has an RF connector.

If you don't have an RF connector on your wireless card, I suggest you
either butcher your card to add an RF connector or purchase a suitable
card.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

: Most of the hi-gain antenna I've seen are for the router side of a
: wireless network. Does anyone make one for the wireless network card
: itself?

Sure ;-)

Link below.

m.

--
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WLAN-FAQ: http://milea.pl/pl/wlan-faq/

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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I have a DLink which does not have an RF connector. I'll have to
invest in a suitable card. I'll look at the names you provided and
thanks for the info!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

After re-reading my post, I left off a big fact. I need this for a
PCMCIA card for my laptop. Not for a wireless network card for a
desktop. Do you know if anyone makes a PCMCIA card for a laptop that
has RF connectors?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

After re-reading my original post, I discovered that I left off an
important part. I need this antennae for a laptop PCMCIA card. Any
one make a PCMCIA card with RF connectors?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> If you don't have an RF connector on your wireless card, I suggest you
> either butcher your card to add an RF connector or purchase a suitable
> card.

Did you give up on the Mini-USB?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

tommy <tommynospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> After re-reading my post, I left off a big fact. I need this for a
> PCMCIA card for my laptop. Not for a wireless network card for a
> desktop. Do you know if anyone makes a PCMCIA card for a laptop that
> has RF connectors?

The Orinoco "used to". Now you have to be careful to get one that does.

It is simple enough to buy a USB-wireless adapter. This allows the
antenna/device to be located to a more optimum position.
Some of them have built-in antennas that either readily accept antennas, or
can be modified to connect antennas.
http://www.nodomainname.co.uk/cantenna/cantenna.htm

Or a mini-USB can be mounted to a reflector, or put into a can.
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=175
http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q105513C8

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

 

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On 8 Sep 2004 17:29:17 -0700, tommynospam@yahoo.com (tommy) wrote:

>After re-reading my original post, I discovered that I left off an
>important part. I need this antennae for a laptop PCMCIA card. Any
>one make a PCMCIA card with RF connectors?

If you're going to replace the card, also look into USB radios as a
possible option.

Also, since you seem unwilling to supply numbers, be sure to check if
your laptop uses a 16bit PCMCIA slot, or a 32bit CardBus slot. In
general, 802.11g cards are 32bit, while older 802.11b cards can be
either.

How to add a pigtail and connector to what may be your Dlink card if
you had bothered to specify the make and model (it's hard to be
subtle):
http://c0rtex.com/~will/antenna/

Senao (high power):
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/SenaoCard
Lots of vendors and prices to choose from.

Orinoco (Proxim/Avaya/Agere/Wavelan/Lucent):
http://www.proxim.com/products/wifi/client/

Watch out for the cost of the pigtail as they can almost half the
price of the card.
http://www.fab-corp.com/K1.htm


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:45:21 +0000 (UTC), dold@XReXXWirel.usenet.us.com
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>> If you don't have an RF connector on your wireless card, I suggest you
>> either butcher your card to add an RF connector or purchase a suitable
>> card.

>Did you give up on the Mini-USB?

I never give up. I still have one DWL-122 radio.
http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/pics/wireless/DWL-122/
I removed the PIFA antenna, attached an SMA connector, and made some
bench tests for sensitivity, power out, and such. Then, one of my
signal generators blew up and everything is stalled while I try to fix
it.

Remind me. What was I suppose to be working on with it? I found some
sketches of a patch antenna where I planned to attach the radio.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:3bu0k0dmq03utbu8t5dcq2oo76d6i7m8pp@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:45:21 +0000 (UTC), dold@XReXXWirel.usenet.us.com
> wrote:
>
>>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>>> If you don't have an RF connector on your wireless card, I suggest you
>>> either butcher your card to add an RF connector or purchase a suitable
>>> card.
>
>>Did you give up on the Mini-USB?
>
> I never give up. I still have one DWL-122 radio.
> http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/pics/wireless/DWL-122/
> I removed the PIFA antenna, attached an SMA connector, and made some
> bench tests for sensitivity, power out, and such. Then, one of my
> signal generators blew up and everything is stalled while I try to fix
> it.
>
> Remind me. What was I suppose to be working on with it? I found some
> sketches of a patch antenna where I planned to attach the radio.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

As I recall, you were going to see about the gain from putting on an
external antenna on the DWL-122.

--
Bob Alston

bobalston9 AT aol DOT com


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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> Remind me. What was I suppose to be working on with it? I found some
> sketches of a patch antenna where I planned to attach the radio.

We were talking about a USB radio and antenna similar to
http://www.geocities.com/lincomatic/wifipatchantenna.html
or Trevor's biquad.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

you're right, dude, I didn't supply numbers but not because I was
unwilling. I have a DLINK card and I was almost positive that I
couldn't hook an external antenna without breaking in to the card
itself which is something I wasn't willing to do.

I was really looking for a solution with a card that was designed for
accepting an external antenna and an antenna that was professionally
made instead of the preverbial "tin foil" method.

Thanks for the links! I'll check them out.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Oops. Still didn't mention it. It is the DLINK DWL-G650.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On 11 Sep 2004 23:52:19 -0700, tommynospam@yahoo.com (tommy) wrote:

>Oops. Still didn't mention it. It is the DLINK DWL-G650.

See? That was painless. There's nothing really wrong with tearing
open a PCMCIA card and attaching a pigtail for an external antenna or
using one buried inside. The DWL-650+v2 model has an MMCX jack inside
that requires you drill a hole in the cover to connect.
http://www.jsbw.de/01010027.JPG
http://www.jsbw.de/01010028.JPG
http://www.jsbw.de/01010031.JPG
I'm not sure what's inside a DWL-G650 as I haven't ripped one apart
yet. You might get lucky and actually find a suitable connector.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
newsls8k0lesrloe1o04icvutmjatqqbtl7hg@4ax.com...
> On 11 Sep 2004 23:52:19 -0700, tommynospam@yahoo.com (tommy) wrote:
>
> >Oops. Still didn't mention it. It is the DLINK DWL-G650.
>
> See? That was painless. There's nothing really wrong with tearing
> open a PCMCIA card and attaching a pigtail for an external antenna or
> using one buried inside. The DWL-650+v2 model has an MMCX jack inside
> that requires you drill a hole in the cover to connect.
> http://www.jsbw.de/01010027.JPG
> http://www.jsbw.de/01010028.JPG
> http://www.jsbw.de/01010031.JPG
> I'm not sure what's inside a DWL-G650 as I haven't ripped one apart
> yet. You might get lucky and actually find a suitable connector.
>

So, does all this mechanical disruption give a better result than installing
a USB device at the focus of a dish?

John


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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:57:01 +0100, "John Beeston"
<john.Beeston@talk21.com> wrote:

>So, does all this mechanical disruption give a better result than installing
>a USB device at the focus of a dish?

In general yes. A properly designed antenna is much better than
hanging a USB card in a dish or can. The problem with a dish is that
at best, it's 50% efficient. The illumination angle of the USB radio
is almost hemispherical causing much of the radiation from the
transmitter to go in useless directions. The cans have their own
collection of problems. However, with a connector and panel (patch)
antenna, no signal is lost to overspray or reflector efficiency. All
of it goes into the antenna and in the general direction you want to
operate.

However, in the case of a PCMCIA (or cardbus) radio vs a USB radio,
there's also a question of power. Some USB radios are seriously under
powered at +12dBm while some PCMCIA cards belch up to +23dBm. No USB
radio comes close.

On the other foot, USB radios can easily be deployed where they will
do the most good for a clear RF path. A PCMCIA card, driving an
external antenna, will require a length of very lossy coax to be
optimally positioned. Therefore, all the increased power output of
the PCMCIA card can be lost in coax cable and connector losses.

Also, the aperature area of a good size dish is quite a bit larger
than a typical panel antenna. That means the dish will theoretically
have more gain (but a narrower beam width). However, if it per chance
has the same gain as a panel antenna, it's likely that the beamwidth
of the dish will be narrower than the patch.

In other words, it's not an easy comparison. I've done better with
reflector backed biquad antennas and sheet copper patch antennas than
with opertunistic reflectors and cans. However, I haven't exerted
much effort trying to make reflectors work while panels and biquads
get my full attention.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

More painful than you think.

No seriously, ok, ok, I pryed it open after much debate and yes, did
indeed see that funny, small connector that is apparently the MMCX
jack that showed in the pictures. I saw this and didn't know what it
was. Didn't look like anything that I could "jack" anything in to so
I dismissed it until I saw your post. So this is a jack that is a
standard connector that could be used with one of those fab-corp.com
15 dBi Parabolic Grid Directional Antennas with the right "pig tails"?
(Although I'm very familiar with almost every aspect of a computer,
I'm a newbie with the wireless hardware end of things so forgive me if
I don't use the right terminology. still learning.)

Thanks for the information!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On 13 Sep 2004 07:31:52 -0700, tommynospam@yahoo.com (tommy) wrote:

>More painful than you think.

I mean't supplying the model number of the card. Actually, I would
also like the FCCID number so I can dig through the techy details on
the FCC web pile.

>No seriously, ok, ok, I pryed it open after much debate and yes, did
>indeed see that funny, small connector that is apparently the MMCX
>jack that showed in the pictures.

Photo shopping list of common connectors to choose from:
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/connectors.php

>I saw this and didn't know what it
>was. Didn't look like anything that I could "jack" anything in to so
>I dismissed it until I saw your post.

Argh. I goofed. It's not an MMCX connector. It's a Hirose u-FL
conenctor. Also made by IPAX.
http://www.hirose.co.uk/productreleases/ufl.htm
http://www.hirose-connectors.com/products/U.FL_5.htm
(The USA web pile seems to be screwed up). Fab-Corp carries them (at
the bottom of their pigtail page).

>So this is a jack that is a
>standard connector that could be used with one of those fab-corp.com
>15 dBi Parabolic Grid Directional Antennas with the right "pig tails"?

Yep. The pigtail should be as short as possible and then connect to
an antenna or a fat length of LMR-400 coax. Coax cable losses at
2.4GHz are very high. The smaller the coax cable diameter, the higher
the loss per ft. The antennas usually have an N-Female connector, so
your pigtail will need to be a Hirose u-FL to N-Male.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

What would be your antenna of choice make and model for a narrow band
directional function? I mentioned that I was looking at the
www.fab-corp.com parabolic dish. What do you think about these?

I've seen the panel anntena but what are "biquad" antennas? One last
thing, how do the Antenex 14.6 dBi Yagi anntenas on fab-corp compare
to the dish anntena?

Sorry for so many questions. You understand this stuff to a level
that I can only dream right now.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> However, in the case of a PCMCIA (or cardbus) radio vs a USB radio,
> there's also a question of power. Some USB radios are seriously under
> powered at +12dBm while some PCMCIA cards belch up to +23dBm. No USB
> radio comes close.

DWL-122 USB-Mini Transmitter Output Power 16dBm (40mW)
Orinoco Classic Gold/Silver PCMCIA card Nominal Output Power 15 dBm

> Also, the aperature area of a good size dish is quite a bit larger
> than a typical panel antenna. That means the dish will theoretically
> have more gain (but a narrower beam width). However, if it per chance
> has the same gain as a panel antenna, it's likely that the beamwidth
> of the dish will be narrower than the patch.

For particular point to point, a fixed dish installation would be better,
because of the narrow beam width, delivering better power to a point.

> In other words, it's not an easy comparison. I've done better with
> reflector backed biquad antennas and sheet copper patch antennas than
> with opertunistic reflectors and cans. However, I haven't exerted
> much effort trying to make reflectors work while panels and biquads
> get my full attention.

I've noticed that.
I suppose my biggest discrepancy is in making a distinction between a
reflector and an antenna. I consider the reflector to be part of an
antenna assembly. There is a feed element, and a reflector. I don't see
any radio difference between a rubber duckie antenna mounted at the proper
place in front of a reflector and a pre-built dish that has a dipole as the
feed element.

As far as cans as waveguides, most of my experience is with the 90 ton
dish on top of Mt. Umunhum. That had a 9" circular waveguide delivering
substantial power to a reflector that was probably fifty feet away from the
end of the waveguide.

"At Almaden, California, testing of an AN/FPS-24 radar could only be
conducted at times when the local television stations were not
broadcasting."

http://mail.the-kgb.com/dante/military/milpics7.html

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:46:26 +0000 (UTC),
dold@XReXXWirel.usenet.us.com wrote:

>DWL-122 USB-Mini Transmitter Output Power 16dBm (40mW)
>Orinoco Classic Gold/Silver PCMCIA card Nominal Output Power 15 dBm

My measurements show the DWL-122, with an SMA connector in place of
the PIFA antenna, belches about +13dBm. My Orinioco (pre-Proxim)
Silver card puts out +15dBm. While my absolute measurement accuracy
is probably off, the relative numbers are quite accurate.

>For particular point to point, a fixed dish installation would be better,
>because of the narrow beam width, delivering better power to a point.

Differnt types of antennas with identical gains will deliver identical
power levels "to a point" regardless of the beamwidth.

It really depends upon what you're trying to do with the antenna. If
you're doing point to point, then a narrow beam is highly desireable.
However, if you're trying to illuminate a distant "area", more
beamwidth is desireable. In general, for a given gain antenna, a
narrower beamwidth implies lots of side lobes, or crummy efficiency.
I went through a few of the antennas on the fab-corp.com web pile.
Antenna gain vert
beamwidth
Dish 15dBi 19deg
Microcepter 16dBi 27deg
Rootenna 14dBi 35deg
Arc Wireless 13dBi 38deg
Not exactly a perfect comparison, but close enough to illustrate the
point.

>"At Almaden, California, testing of an AN/FPS-24 radar could only be
>conducted at times when the local television stations were not
>broadcasting."
>http://mail.the-kgb.com/dante/military/milpics7.html

Argh. I've lived in Ben Lomond since about 1974. When I first moved
in, I could see the big rotating dish on Umunhum out my window. Every
time it came around, I could hear the buzz on every radio in the house
and on some resonant wires around the house. I couldn't record
anything without adding the buzz. Good ridance.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On 13 Sep 2004 13:59:12 -0700, tommynospam@yahoo.com (tommy) wrote:

>What would be your antenna of choice make and model for a narrow band
>directional function? I mentioned that I was looking at the
>www.fab-corp.com parabolic dish. What do you think about these?

Their die cast dish antennas are fine. No clue who made them.
I'm partial to Pacific Wireless dishes:
http://www.pacwireless.com/products/directional.shtml

>I've seen the panel anntena but what are "biquad" antennas?

http://trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm

>how do the Antenex 14.6 dBi Yagi anntenas on fab-corp compare
>to the dish anntena?

I don't like yagi's. They're too narrow bandwidth, have side lobes
all over the place, usually have boresight errors, and are
rediculously long for any reasonable gain. At 15dBi gain, I would use
a panel antenna or dish. At 24dBi, the only viable option is a dish
because a yagi would be about 20ft long. For the same price as the
Antenex yagi, you can get a much higher gain dish.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS

 

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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:10:19 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

>At 24dBi, the only viable option is a dish
>because a yagi would be about 20ft long.

Sigh. I gotta hire a better proof reader.

A 24dBi yagi would be about 20 wavelengths long or about 2.5 meters
long. One of my reference books claims 16dBi is about the practical
limit for yagi antennas. Any longer boom length and the gain increase
is fairly nominal. For example, to get 3dB more gain, the boom length
of the antenna must be more than doubled.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:53:06 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

Duh. Forgot to add a yagi antenna:
Antenna gain vert
beamwidth
Dish 15dBi 19deg
Microcepter 16dBi 27deg
Rootenna 14dBi 35deg
Arc Wireless 13dBi 38deg
Maxrad yagi 15dbi 30deg


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558