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Would they put limits even without Pirating?

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  • PC gaming
  • Games
  • Consoles
  • Video Games
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Last response: in Video Games
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June 27, 2009 6:15:08 AM

I think that most of the companies use Pirating as an excuse. With the limits on how many times you can install a game on a computer starting to show up more and more I think the experiment is almost completed. PC has always been the place to go when you want to experiment. Want the latest, greatest graphics you don't stop at the local console but at the PC. Want to try some whacky you venture... well there is no place to go but with the PC. Hell, you don't even have to put out a half way decent game for the PC. You make a Console Game and then you port over to PC and if the game doesn't really work on the PC well... them people don't really count anyways. So why the anti-pirating, activation limiting, soft-ware?
It's pretty widely excepted that for you to sell a game on the PC you have to put out a fairly decent game. If you don't then the people who tried out the game by Pirating, will send out the word the game is for crap, and nobody will buy it. Don't believe me then wait till Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3 comes out. If a game company wants to sell a game on the PC they have to put the work in and it can get expensive. For half the price they can put out half the quality and sell twice the amount on a console, then you got DLC, and the PC becomes the great experiment but there is a problem.
The problem is called Renting, Second Hand Selling, and even Pirating. If you think Pirating on the PC is bad then you haven't seen the numbers for all the non-sales because of Rentals, Second Hand Buying, and loaning. For every game that is bought there is probably nine that are played that haven't ever been purchased. The thing is that back in the day you didn't have to put in all that amount of work to make some money on the game but as the consoles get bigger and better all of that is changing. It's starting to cost some serious dollars to make a decent game for the 360 or PS 3 and if you include the PC well... With all that lost revenue the game companies need to come up with a plan to stop the blood letting or they are going to have to really begin to make good games and not decent ones. Stop the loss of Revenue or make a Good Game? Hmmmm... What if they put in an Activation limit and make the Support to get that Activation Limit Raised so inefficient that most people would rather just buy the game again than go through the hassle.
So, the next stop for this Anti-Pirating Activation Limits is the Consoles. PC was just the experiment to see if they could get it working. It was never about Pirating because most of the companies knew that all you had to do was make a good game (and support it) for it to sell well on the PC. This has been and always was about Gamestop, the Rentals, and all those little turds who need to be suckered out of their money. Unlike PC Users who have a suffient crowd that know's how to bypass the activation limit, the Console Users are made up of... Let's just say that for many of the console crowd, flipping burgers is an excercise of brainpower that many have a hard time grasping the concept in (OK imagine that this is a Gamepad you take burger like this and flip like OMG what the hell is wrong with you).
What I'm saying is with or without Pirating the companies still wanted the Limited Activation in their Games and their focus was never to stop Pirating in the first place. Their clear objective was figuring out how to stop Gamestop, the Rentals, and the little kids giving their Game to their friend to play.

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June 27, 2009 10:25:16 AM

Hackers will mod the code for privately run online play anyways. Once you have it why would you go out and buy a legal copy?
June 27, 2009 11:28:04 AM

The question, "Once you have it (the game) would you go out and buy a legal copy?"
Yes. If there isn't a demo of a Game I'll download and try it. If I play a game over two hours then I make sure to pay for it. If I shut the game off after only playing on it for five minutes then I delete it. If I really love a game I'll pay full price.
If a Game comes with Tages DRM with limited installations then welcome to the Pirate list. Securom really doesn't bother me but that 3 installation and Dark Sectors 2 installations (plus no support) does grate me. With unlimited bandwith I have no problem downloading them Tages DRM Games over and over and over again.
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June 27, 2009 7:46:29 PM

What pisses me off is the fact that people who use P2P (me included, but not for games) to DL games don't have to go through the activation crap process and have less crap installed on their system. I purchase only legit games (for example GTA4) where I feel I get screwed. I have to do an activation unlike piraters who don't have to deal with extra crap because there's patches for that. Also I get junk installed on my system whether I want it or not like the "social club". I don't like online multiplaying, and I feel I should have the choice to have extra crap installed or not..
as well I have no internet connection as I'm having problems with connections to my house..
THERE HAS GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!This will be my last R*/take2 game..

I am all for Piraters as the prices of games are waaaayyy too much money. As well GTA forces most people to upgrade their GPU..WTH is up with that.
SORRY BUT I AM PISSED!!
June 27, 2009 9:29:02 PM

You have a right to be. I found GamersGate to be pretty excellent all in all with the activation limit thing. The fact that I will only deal with them on games with DRM Activation is a definate plus and I have no problem advertising that they are the best. When I need to get more activations I have only one email address to write to instead of trying to figure out where the website is and which email for which game... etc.
Tages is a problem though. Once Anno 1402 comes out on the Torrent's I plan on downloading it at least a hundred different times. They need to be taught a lesson about using that DRM scheme where they can't undo the activation limits... either that or put in Big Bold Letters: For More Activations please Email with this code ####: ****@ whatever.com.
Still, I just see all of this leading up to a much bigger agenda and that is to combat that little Console Crud Monsters who never buy a game but just rent or buy second hand.
June 29, 2009 7:20:56 PM

Isn't this activation limit issue kind of old? Aren't companies moving away from it? What upcoming or recently released big name titles are even using it anymore? I think companies tried it, saw it wouldn't work and are getting away from it.

Also the idea that people pirate games because of DRM, or to stick it to companies who us it is kind of bunk. Case in point for (for both of my points) is The Sims 3. A game that a year ago seemed 100% certain for extreme DRM only shipped with a disc check. Yet despite the limited DRM The Sims 3 ended up getting pirated MORE than Spore, which many said was pirated because of it's DRM.

My argument at the time for Spore was that it was pirated because the DRM made it easy to do so, not because people were protesting EA. So essentially EA learned their lesson which is people will steal a game no matter what, so why bother with troublesome DRM.

Really the argument over activation limits is over. The next thing is micro-transactions. Companies are going to be moving towards a "pay-to-play" model. They'll let you activate the game as much as you want, rent, trade, and sell second hand - hell they'll probably be giving the base games away for free before long. Then it will be all about how much are you as an individual willing to pay/how much do you want to play. Think not? Look at what's been the most successful games lately - MMOs. If anything the P2P/pirating network will be used by the gaming companies to distribute games for them hoping some % will pay for extra levels, weapons, maps, etc.
June 30, 2009 1:16:50 AM

Ubisoft just released Anno 1402 with a Tages 3 limit activation and a no removal of the DRM. It's placed in the Steam system too... so not old but just getting started.
June 30, 2009 1:32:01 AM

Activision
June 30, 2009 3:49:24 AM

I have it down as Ubisoft releasing the game.
June 30, 2009 1:27:01 PM

Never even heard of Anno 1492. I'm looking at what major publishers are doing with major titles to see what the trend is. I'm sure there are still games out there using activation limits, but looking at what Sims 3 and eventually Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 do as far as DRM is what I'm interested in.

BTW, I just searched on Steam and can't even find Anno 1492.
June 30, 2009 1:34:36 PM

It's also called Dawn of Discovery.
June 30, 2009 2:06:46 PM

Ok, I've heard of that. Looks like a good game too. But like I said it's not quite on par with major blockbuster releases. ***I'm just going mention right now that this has nothing to due with how good the game is*** But for a title like this the decision to use activation limits may very well have been made a year ago or more and now it's not worth it to go back and take it out. Conversely for a title like the Sims 3 it probably much more worthwhile to go back and strip out controversial DRM. And I definitely think the trend will be going towards not using those types of DRM anymore.
June 30, 2009 6:30:35 PM

I sure hope so. :) 
June 30, 2009 7:28:14 PM

Cuddles said:
I sure hope so. :) 

But will the alternative be any better, or possible worse?
July 1, 2009 8:32:54 AM

I honestly feel that the PC DRM was just a test phase. They found out what they needed (or finding out what they need) and are preparing for the Next Gen Consoles. I'm willing to bet that the games for the Next Gen Consoles are going to be tied to the console itself. The money lost to Pirating is just loose change compared to the money that is being loss in the second hand market. It's all legal too which just ticks them off even more. There will still be rentals but those disks will cost five or six times the normal.
The thing is PC games will have already gone through this phase and will have figured out alternative DRM like Steam and Impulse.
July 1, 2009 5:47:30 PM

Piracy is a paper tiger, ever notice that its companies who routinely release bad games or flavor of the week garbage are the ones who complain about it?

Ask Paradox, Stardock, Valve, or Bioware if piracy is hurting their massive profits. Atari is always in the red because they are one of the worst publishers on the planet.

When every company goes to digital distribution to elimiate piracy you will see the same companies finding a new excuse for their terrible products not selling.
July 1, 2009 11:48:35 PM

Jees what a terrible product that brings in more income than you make despite piracy.
July 3, 2009 2:38:44 PM

photog10 said:
What pisses me off is the fact that people who use P2P (me included, but not for games) to DL games don't have to go through the activation crap process and have less crap installed on their system. I purchase only legit games (for example GTA4) where I feel I get screwed. I have to do an activation unlike piraters who don't have to deal with extra crap because there's patches for that. Also I get junk installed on my system whether I want it or not like the "social club". I don't like online multiplaying, and I feel I should have the choice to have extra crap installed or not..
as well I have no internet connection as I'm having problems with connections to my house..
THERE HAS GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!This will be my last R*/take2 game..

I am all for Piraters as the prices of games are waaaayyy too much money. As well GTA forces most people to upgrade their GPU..WTH is up with that.
SORRY BUT I AM PISSED!!


I completely agree with you, in fact this is why I started pirating. A few months ago I bought the oblivion GOTY edition (with Securom) and when I put the second disc to install (the one with all the expansions) I got a message saying how my disc wasn't legit so I couldn't use it. I spent over a week emailing securom (that i could of been used playing the game) and in the end they told me I'd just have to get another disc. So if any game has intrusive DRM it's not even worth it to try to go through with playing it. Teach all of those companies a lesson.
July 3, 2009 3:21:43 PM

Blaming piracy's always been the easy road. It was in 1984 when C-64 games flopped and it still is in 2009. Copy protection was crap then, and still is.

They even had a golf game that required a plug on an RS-232 port to be able to play, so it wasn't just a software copy that was needed. Of course, you could get one of those from a bucket at the computer shop for $1.99, they made them by the dozens.

Really though, install limits mean I won't touch it. Online restrictions I don't mind. I mean if I dug out Redneck Rampage Rides Again and find that it can't be installed, I'd be annoyed that I bought it in the first place 12 years ago or whatever it was. The same applies to my old vinyl records and what's left of the old cassettes in a box, if they were limited use, they'd just be garbage.
July 6, 2009 1:36:42 AM

LOL why is there an illegal DRM cracking post? Let me guess the topic starter works for danisoft.
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