P3 Motherboard
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A socket 370 Coppermine indeed. Why would he want another motherboard though? ~1 GHz was about as good as the P3s got. Some were sold at 1133 MHz, but if I remeber correctly, they were recalled. The point is that he's probably not going to find a better P3 platform where he can put his memory. If he's going to upgrade to P4, forget SDR: it's either Rambus or DDR. I believe a few hybrids exist, but it's simply not worth it. Hybrid boards have addressibility issues, to the best of my knowledge, though I've never used one.
So, once again, why would he need this board?
So, once again, why would he need this board?
I have a Asus P3v4x right here... Just replaced it with a Asus A7n8x
Supossedly, the P3v4x was onea the best ever made! - it did serve me well for over 2 years, and was runnin good when it went back in the box it originaly came in! (also have a slocket and PIII 667 for it, just gatherin dust)
Was thinkin about puttin it on EBAY... but?
I'd give it a NOT DOA Warrenty!
It'll put out the best bench numbers of any PIII mobo i ever ran!
(and run 150FSB+ - No Problem!)
Supossedly, the P3v4x was onea the best ever made! - it did serve me well for over 2 years, and was runnin good when it went back in the box it originaly came in! (also have a slocket and PIII 667 for it, just gatherin dust)
Was thinkin about puttin it on EBAY... but?
I'd give it a NOT DOA Warrenty!
It'll put out the best bench numbers of any PIII mobo i ever ran!
(and run 150FSB+ - No Problem!)
That is tempting. Although I'm hesitant to recommend a VIA based P3 board to him, cause I don't know what else he'll be putting in the system. I'll pass that info on to him though. I was thinking more along the lines of the ABIT SA6 or the ABIT BX6 with a slot to socket adapter. There are cheap BX6s all over Ebay. Would either of these boards work? Does anyone know of any online retailers that carry older hardware?
I have 3 PIII boxes, Abit BE6II, DFI TA64B, & Asys P3v4x, all fully loaded W2k pro/server development/product test boxes. I learned to prefer the VIA 694x chipset as they also come with excellent(fastest) eIde/udma onboard controllers. I'd say if anybody can find/break a chipsets weakness, I can with dev/debug/database and kernal debuggers! i've never had a problem with the later VIA 694x chipsets on the DFI and Assus. Both are strong reliable mobo's, run anything ya throw at em, games or fancy multimedia.
Of course the p3v4x was my personal box, easily runs either the 667 or 1g copermines, all Windows, OS/2 and Linux, and gets the best numbers!
Bx, and I815 are also good, but I get the best REAL thruput with VIA 694's... and a better variety of hardware support...
Check Tom's reviews of PIII mobo's - It dont get any faster or more reliable than the P3v4x! Its objectively TOP SHELF, if not "THE" top a the heap! Thats why i got it!
From Tom's
"Performance Showdown at 133 MHz FSB - The best Platform for Coppermine"
Results:
The results plus the price point clearly favor the Apollo Pro 133A chipset, which is as fast as i820 w/RDRAM, but vastly cheaper
Conclusion:
The CLEAR winner in this competition is VIA's VT82C694X or 'Apollo Pro 133A'. This chipset offers almost the same performance as i820 with RDRAM and it scores even identically to the expensive competition from Intel!
AND the P3V4x mobo is the one they used to whip the I820/RDRAM with!!!
Of course the p3v4x was my personal box, easily runs either the 667 or 1g copermines, all Windows, OS/2 and Linux, and gets the best numbers!
Bx, and I815 are also good, but I get the best REAL thruput with VIA 694's... and a better variety of hardware support...
Check Tom's reviews of PIII mobo's - It dont get any faster or more reliable than the P3v4x! Its objectively TOP SHELF, if not "THE" top a the heap! Thats why i got it!
From Tom's
"Performance Showdown at 133 MHz FSB - The best Platform for Coppermine"
Results:
The results plus the price point clearly favor the Apollo Pro 133A chipset, which is as fast as i820 w/RDRAM, but vastly cheaper
Conclusion:
The CLEAR winner in this competition is VIA's VT82C694X or 'Apollo Pro 133A'. This chipset offers almost the same performance as i820 with RDRAM and it scores even identically to the expensive competition from Intel!
AND the P3V4x mobo is the one they used to whip the I820/RDRAM with!!!
readin back a bit, i noticed the ole BX still get PIII preformance tops, so i did Sandra's on mine (again) - can only compare BE6II(BX) and TA64B(VIA) at present. Both exactly same, PIII1000, CAS2 mem, WD7200 disk, ATI Vid, W2k...
BX(BE6II) mem=792 cpu=2644/1351 filesys=1240 PR=1200
VIA(Ta64) mem=864 cpu=2635/1340 filesys=2219 PR=1209
I'm suprized, the BX does win the CPU score, not by much, but does win!
However the VIA Apollo Pro stomps it on Mem and Filesys scores...
And real world thruput is no comaprisin - The VIA much snappier.
We gotta cut the BX some slack cuz a its onboardthe Highpoint(Hot Rod)33 eide/udma controller. I updated to HotRod66 drivers but it's always been slow(and a pain) in comparison to other eide/udma controllers... Perhaps good in its day as onea the first udma controllers, but its definitely been left behind.
There's now slack for Mem score however, BX just gets whipped bad!
And i'm admittedly a "path to memory" lover when it comes to real thruput.
Am pretty sure the p3v4x will smoke em both! but it's in the box right.
BX(BE6II) mem=792 cpu=2644/1351 filesys=1240 PR=1200
VIA(Ta64) mem=864 cpu=2635/1340 filesys=2219 PR=1209
I'm suprized, the BX does win the CPU score, not by much, but does win!
However the VIA Apollo Pro stomps it on Mem and Filesys scores...
And real world thruput is no comaprisin - The VIA much snappier.
We gotta cut the BX some slack cuz a its onboardthe Highpoint(Hot Rod)33 eide/udma controller. I updated to HotRod66 drivers but it's always been slow(and a pain) in comparison to other eide/udma controllers... Perhaps good in its day as onea the first udma controllers, but its definitely been left behind.
There's now slack for Mem score however, BX just gets whipped bad!
And i'm admittedly a "path to memory" lover when it comes to real thruput.
Am pretty sure the p3v4x will smoke em both! but it's in the box right.
- Dec 31, 2007
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No, i815 boards are limited to 512MB, and something like 6 banks (which would mean boards with a 4th slot share a bank, no double sided DIMMs on those banks).
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
- Dec 31, 2007
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P3V4X was probably the best VIA chipset ever made, but VIA made garbage. BX was the best PIII chipset. Even the i815E chipset was better than anything VIA.
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
- Dec 31, 2007
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The best chipset is the Intel BX series. The best boards are the Abit BE6-II and Asus P3B-F. I can't remember the number of slots on the BE6-II, but the P3B-F has 4.
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
THe BE6-II has 3 slots, max 256 each, total 768MB - I have one right here...
(with slow HighPoint HotRod33 disk controller, BX doesnt support EIDE/UDMA!!!)
Perhaps on a test bench the BE6II might squeak out a bit more CPU score,
But in the REAL WORLD, gamin and workin, both a my VIA Apollo Pro boards SMOKE the BE6-II, and leave it way behind! I mean, not even close!
Why do ya think I didn't get another BE6 or BX, VIA kept improvin, side by side literally runs away from BX in comparison!
And the P3V4X, 4 mem slots, 512 each, 2Gig total, FAR BETER Mem preformance and UDMA100 disk controller (not even mentionin 4X agp vidio) is the fastest, most versitle and reliable PIII mobo of the bunch i've got!
(with slow HighPoint HotRod33 disk controller, BX doesnt support EIDE/UDMA!!!)
Perhaps on a test bench the BE6II might squeak out a bit more CPU score,
But in the REAL WORLD, gamin and workin, both a my VIA Apollo Pro boards SMOKE the BE6-II, and leave it way behind! I mean, not even close!
Why do ya think I didn't get another BE6 or BX, VIA kept improvin, side by side literally runs away from BX in comparison!
And the P3V4X, 4 mem slots, 512 each, 2Gig total, FAR BETER Mem preformance and UDMA100 disk controller (not even mentionin 4X agp vidio) is the fastest, most versitle and reliable PIII mobo of the bunch i've got!
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I don't know what you've been smoking, but even THG showed the i815E was faster than the VIA (any Apollo version), and that the BX was faster than the i815E. So to say any garbage VIA beats the BX in any way, shape, or form, is nothing more than lies, hypocracy, and perhaps a bit of brand promotion. I've had hundreds of boards with just about every chipset imaginable, including (to my chagrin) some of those VIA chipset boards.
The one Intel chipset that VIA could beat was the lowely i820, and we saw what happened to THAT chipset!
Back in those days the VIA Apollo Pro 133A wasn't even compatable with a bunch of MY hardware, some of which was the most state of the art you could buy! Of course there was a fix, don't buy state of the art hardware!
So you have a slow chipset that does very poorly against the competition, has compatability issues, stability issues, and is basically just garbage any way you look at it. Now I do understand you wanting to rid yourself of that board, and I do understand that it has 4 slots, but this guy wants an HONEST ANSWER, NOT A SALES PITCH, SO QUIT LYING TO HIM!!!
And the P3B-F also has 4 SDRAM slots, supports ALL PIII CPU's (Even the 1400 Tualatin, simply by adding a cheap Slot-T adapter), and is equal in most ways to other top notch BX boards. So I'll have to stick with that as an HONEST recommendation.
Oh, and AGP4x couldn't give these chipsets any advantage over AGP2x, not even on the GeForce2 GTS, which was state of the art at the time (and thus often crashed VIA chipset boards).
As for UDMA 100, I have to admit that I did add an IDE card to my last BX system when I finally got around to using a drive (WD 800JB) which could exceed 33MB/s (my previous drives, UDMA 66 and 100, only had continuous transfers of around 30MB/s).
So unless he's running a state of the art drive, he doesn't even need the faster IDE protocols. And unless he's running a current state of the art card, he won't have much use for AGP4x either.
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
The one Intel chipset that VIA could beat was the lowely i820, and we saw what happened to THAT chipset!
Oh, and <A HREF="http://www17.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20000611/i815-04.html" target="_new">here's some benchmarks to prove what I'm saying</A>, as if I wasn't already an authority on the matter! Of course VIA Apollo Pro 133A doesn't simply loose to BX, but does so by a rather large margin! Heck, even the simple i815 breaks it's back! Wow, talk about garbage!
Back in those days the VIA Apollo Pro 133A wasn't even compatable with a bunch of MY hardware, some of which was the most state of the art you could buy! Of course there was a fix, don't buy state of the art hardware!
So you have a slow chipset that does very poorly against the competition, has compatability issues, stability issues, and is basically just garbage any way you look at it. Now I do understand you wanting to rid yourself of that board, and I do understand that it has 4 slots, but this guy wants an HONEST ANSWER, NOT A SALES PITCH, SO QUIT LYING TO HIM!!!
And the P3B-F also has 4 SDRAM slots, supports ALL PIII CPU's (Even the 1400 Tualatin, simply by adding a cheap Slot-T adapter), and is equal in most ways to other top notch BX boards. So I'll have to stick with that as an HONEST recommendation.
Oh, and AGP4x couldn't give these chipsets any advantage over AGP2x, not even on the GeForce2 GTS, which was state of the art at the time (and thus often crashed VIA chipset boards).
As for UDMA 100, I have to admit that I did add an IDE card to my last BX system when I finally got around to using a drive (WD 800JB) which could exceed 33MB/s (my previous drives, UDMA 66 and 100, only had continuous transfers of around 30MB/s).
So unless he's running a state of the art drive, he doesn't even need the faster IDE protocols. And unless he's running a current state of the art card, he won't have much use for AGP4x either.
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
Garbage Huh...
Then how come ya run a Sandra on em, right now! Both exactly same, PIII1000, CAS2 mem, WD7200 disk, ATI Vid, W2k...
BX(BE6II) mem=792 cpu=2644/1351 filesys=1240 PR=1200
VIA(Ta64) mem=864 cpu=2635/1340 filesys=2219 PR=1209
Sandra' not a bad Real World bench mark!
Bx does do CPU well! BUT ONLY 2644/2635=1.0034 -> .0034% a very small amount!
How about MEM! 864/792=1.09 -> VIA864x literally RUNS away 9% faster!
(and thats with a DFI TA64B, a respectable, but midrange VIA preformer)
(and we won't even mention IO, BX admittedly has a sad IO subsystem...)
VIA does REAL WELL when ya have to push anything thru it!
and Side by Side the VIA box will already be playin or workin before the BX is even finished bootin! Literally...
Now i'm a software guy, not hardware, but I AINT LYIN!
ya run a build which inclues a good mix or graphic resources, multimedia, and gool ole CPU complin/linkin and readin/writin and side by side the BX is Many Minutes behind the VIA!!! Even function testin with repetitive test scripts, including games, and REAL WORLD, I'm waitin on the BX box... Signifigantly!!!
Numbers is one thing - Real World is another! Even Bench numbers, Via Memory preformance is way above BX... and movin thru memory faster gives ya that real world juice!
I've had all 3 of my PIII mobos since around W2k release.
All, includin the (BX) BE6-II have never lost an OS, and have run w2k since early 2000 without reinstall. I can't say about win9x, but with a 32bit OS (NT,W2k,XP) the VIA boxes clealy steps out better that the BX box, and are less finiky about the hardware ya put in em... I can't even put a 3Com nic and a soundblaster together the BE6 with out popin and crackin(no mater what slots), while VIA doesn't care! I know, I've heard and read VIA had stability and hardware issues, but i think its just a Win 9x thing. Maybe with 9x and manual jumpered IRQ & PortAddr hardware BX preforms OK, but with 32 bit OS and HAL(HArdwareAbstractionLayer) VIA is just too smooth and swift. I've NEVER and a stability or hardware problem with W2k and VIA Apollo Pro's...
Think I'll just agree to disagree. In my experience having both, with W2k on, VIA just left BX behind and never looked back...
As for my P3v4x, i really dont want to get rid iof it. Actually i'm keepin it to replace the slow, finky, limited BX BE6-II, it'll be a big preformance increase...
CAll it garbage if ya like but its pretty swift, smooth and stable and will run 150+ fsb in a heartbeat!
And if i were to put my P3v4x on Ebay (just watch em) , it'd go faster and for more bucks than any other PIII mobo.
Now that's Popular Opinion and REAL WORLD preformance!!!
Then how come ya run a Sandra on em, right now! Both exactly same, PIII1000, CAS2 mem, WD7200 disk, ATI Vid, W2k...
BX(BE6II) mem=792 cpu=2644/1351 filesys=1240 PR=1200
VIA(Ta64) mem=864 cpu=2635/1340 filesys=2219 PR=1209
Sandra' not a bad Real World bench mark!
Bx does do CPU well! BUT ONLY 2644/2635=1.0034 -> .0034% a very small amount!
How about MEM! 864/792=1.09 -> VIA864x literally RUNS away 9% faster!
(and thats with a DFI TA64B, a respectable, but midrange VIA preformer)
(and we won't even mention IO, BX admittedly has a sad IO subsystem...)
VIA does REAL WELL when ya have to push anything thru it!
and Side by Side the VIA box will already be playin or workin before the BX is even finished bootin! Literally...
Now i'm a software guy, not hardware, but I AINT LYIN!
ya run a build which inclues a good mix or graphic resources, multimedia, and gool ole CPU complin/linkin and readin/writin and side by side the BX is Many Minutes behind the VIA!!! Even function testin with repetitive test scripts, including games, and REAL WORLD, I'm waitin on the BX box... Signifigantly!!!
Numbers is one thing - Real World is another! Even Bench numbers, Via Memory preformance is way above BX... and movin thru memory faster gives ya that real world juice!
I've had all 3 of my PIII mobos since around W2k release.
All, includin the (BX) BE6-II have never lost an OS, and have run w2k since early 2000 without reinstall. I can't say about win9x, but with a 32bit OS (NT,W2k,XP) the VIA boxes clealy steps out better that the BX box, and are less finiky about the hardware ya put in em... I can't even put a 3Com nic and a soundblaster together the BE6 with out popin and crackin(no mater what slots), while VIA doesn't care! I know, I've heard and read VIA had stability and hardware issues, but i think its just a Win 9x thing. Maybe with 9x and manual jumpered IRQ & PortAddr hardware BX preforms OK, but with 32 bit OS and HAL(HArdwareAbstractionLayer) VIA is just too smooth and swift. I've NEVER and a stability or hardware problem with W2k and VIA Apollo Pro's...
Think I'll just agree to disagree. In my experience having both, with W2k on, VIA just left BX behind and never looked back...
As for my P3v4x, i really dont want to get rid iof it. Actually i'm keepin it to replace the slow, finky, limited BX BE6-II, it'll be a big preformance increase...
CAll it garbage if ya like but its pretty swift, smooth and stable and will run 150+ fsb in a heartbeat!
And if i were to put my P3v4x on Ebay (just watch em) , it'd go faster and for more bucks than any other PIII mobo.
Now that's Popular Opinion and REAL WORLD preformance!!!
- Dec 31, 2007
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On both 3D Mark 2001 and in Games, I've had much better performance on the BX, and the reason I mention that is because that's where you can SEE the difference. But I see you're lying again:
I was getting over $100 each for my BE6-II motherboards last year. And they were old then!
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
I was getting over $100 each for my BE6-II motherboards last year. And they were old then!
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
Am usin a "Super SLocket-III" (made in china, mfg???) have 2, everything autodetects fine, FSB and voltage changes still work thru em... no problems with em and don't even know their there!
An per mobo's - I'm easy, non argumentive...
I use what gives ME the best numbers and real thruput - and have a BE6-II thats gonna be replaced soon too! I got one of each! Hey, if it works well, better get two for production redundancy!
Will see if I can ghost the partitions offa the BE6, put em on another box and do a repair install and get everything to work(maybe?).
Between the two i might be able to get a new P4 rig...
And personally, i don't care where the reliability/stability(first) and speed(second) comes from, both BX and Apollo Pro have served me well with actually no problems(except that HPT366 controller, becareful with that sucker and any fast disk with cache!!! it'll getcha!).
And I certanily can't call VIA Apollo Pro's "gargage". Ya know, with just a little care selecting hardware, i can throw a W2k CD (Pro,Server,Adv Server) in those VIA's, have every/all devices detected and installed(first pass! W2k CD only) - and run "Every" product M$ has from current MSDN Enterprise Subscription (CommerceServer, .Net, Exchange, SQL, i mean the whole ball game!) and NEVER GET A BLUE SCREEN! I can do the same thing with SuSE Linux on em too! I can't say that for any BX i've ever had! Ya just can't call that garbage! (especially with better Sandra numbers on everything except CPU score)
I'll always keep onea these VIA's as long as W2K is still around!
It's just too tuff to find a matched set that runs the whole ball game.
Anyway, may have both or either up for sale soon!
(Ya know, I've never installed VIA-4-in-1 drivers! - always wondered what those problems were all about? Actually i don't think i've ever put a driver on any a my VIA boxes that wasn't a M$ digitly signed driver - including DirectX. Maybe that's why mine run so smooth??? As much as I hate M$, ya gotta love em too!)
An per mobo's - I'm easy, non argumentive...
I use what gives ME the best numbers and real thruput - and have a BE6-II thats gonna be replaced soon too! I got one of each! Hey, if it works well, better get two for production redundancy!
Will see if I can ghost the partitions offa the BE6, put em on another box and do a repair install and get everything to work(maybe?).
Between the two i might be able to get a new P4 rig...
And personally, i don't care where the reliability/stability(first) and speed(second) comes from, both BX and Apollo Pro have served me well with actually no problems(except that HPT366 controller, becareful with that sucker and any fast disk with cache!!! it'll getcha!).
And I certanily can't call VIA Apollo Pro's "gargage". Ya know, with just a little care selecting hardware, i can throw a W2k CD (Pro,Server,Adv Server) in those VIA's, have every/all devices detected and installed(first pass! W2k CD only) - and run "Every" product M$ has from current MSDN Enterprise Subscription (CommerceServer, .Net, Exchange, SQL, i mean the whole ball game!) and NEVER GET A BLUE SCREEN! I can do the same thing with SuSE Linux on em too! I can't say that for any BX i've ever had! Ya just can't call that garbage! (especially with better Sandra numbers on everything except CPU score)
I'll always keep onea these VIA's as long as W2K is still around!
It's just too tuff to find a matched set that runs the whole ball game.
Anyway, may have both or either up for sale soon!
(Ya know, I've never installed VIA-4-in-1 drivers! - always wondered what those problems were all about? Actually i don't think i've ever put a driver on any a my VIA boxes that wasn't a M$ digitly signed driver - including DirectX. Maybe that's why mine run so smooth??? As much as I hate M$, ya gotta love em too!)
Unolocogringo
Illustrious
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I still have a P2b, P2b-f and a P3v4x. The p3v4x is the worst system of all. First if you plug in a Geforce video card the bios reverts to agp 2x,even if it says 4x.
Also at higher buss speeds the memory will not run with 4/way interleave . There are programs that force agp4x and 4/way interleave on the memory but my board never ran stable at agp4x.
I downgraded from a P2b to a P3V4X for a couple of weeks then replaced it with a P2B-f.
Sandra benchmarks are theoretical and in no way show real world performance.
I still have all of the comps running as game machines and the P3V4x is the slowest at gaming.
I aint signing nothing!!!
Also at higher buss speeds the memory will not run with 4/way interleave . There are programs that force agp4x and 4/way interleave on the memory but my board never ran stable at agp4x.
I downgraded from a P2b to a P3V4X for a couple of weeks then replaced it with a P2B-f.
Sandra benchmarks are theoretical and in no way show real world performance.
I still have all of the comps running as game machines and the P3V4x is the slowest at gaming.
I aint signing nothing!!!
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The Abit Slotket III is probably the best. Iwill and Asus made similar parts. Whatever slotket you use, it will have to be at least Coppermine compatable.
Some cheap slotkets are available on eBay, these usually work. I bought one not too long ago for $4, the one that other guy suggested, and it worked fine.
Of course if you want future upgradability, the Slot-T from Upgradeware will support both Coppermine and Tualatin cores on the more modern Slot-1 boards, but the Slot-T cost $20.
I have a spare Abit Slotket III AND a spare Upgradeware Slot-T, if you'd rather buy from me
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
Some cheap slotkets are available on eBay, these usually work. I bought one not too long ago for $4, the one that other guy suggested, and it worked fine.
Of course if you want future upgradability, the Slot-T from Upgradeware will support both Coppermine and Tualatin cores on the more modern Slot-1 boards, but the Slot-T cost $20.
I have a spare Abit Slotket III AND a spare Upgradeware Slot-T, if you'd rather buy from me
<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
The only downside to the P3B-F is that there's no 1:2 divider for the AGP bus. Therefore, if he's running a 133MHz FSB processor (which the originally mentioned 933MHz PIII is) he'll have to OC the AGP bus to 89MHz. That might or might not be a problem, depending on the video card. Technically the FSB at 133MHz is OC'ing the chipset, since it only 'officially' supports 100MHz FSB. However, that shouldn't be a problem.
That (upgrade) which does not destroy you(r system's stability), makes it stronger. Nietzche
That (upgrade) which does not destroy you(r system's stability), makes it stronger. Nietzche
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