Verizon Wireless billing trick, scam $40 "mistake"

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
Choice" plan.

On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
charges and additional benefits.

They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
bill came, with some surprises:

1/ TRICK

Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.

The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".

2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]

The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
365 = 13.15 minutes per day.

The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.

3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"

They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
per line on two-year agreements."

My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.

Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.

QE in NJ
76 answers Last reply
More about verizon wireless billing trick scam mistake
  1. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
    The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
    prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
    cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.

    This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
    service usually has the overage charges refunded before
    you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
    if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
    they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.

    Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
    Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
    prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
    do not carry over from month to month and not all
    months have holidays in them. How would you
    resolve that?

    The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
    sales person entering the contracts.

    Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
    Try calling customer service and explain what
    happened and ask what they can do for you.

    -Quick

    QuienEs wrote:
    > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > Choice" plan.
    >
    > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    > per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
    > charges and additional benefits.
    >
    > They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
    > bill came, with some surprises:
    >
    > 1/ TRICK
    >
    > Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
    > SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
    > can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
    > 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
    >
    > The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    > pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
    > beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
    > peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
    > pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
    > enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
    > minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
    >
    > 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
    >
    > The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
    > Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
    > 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
    >
    > The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
    > 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
    > 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
    >
    > 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
    >
    > They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    > activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
    > per line on two-year agreements."
    >
    > My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    > department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    > activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
    > their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
    >
    > Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
    >
    > QE in NJ
  2. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Talk with customer care. Make that "worry free guarantee" work and let us
    know

    "QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
    > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > Choice" plan.
    >
    > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
  3. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    My god, hasn't anyone read my posts about this company? They will of course
    make EVERY mistake in their favor. Never will you find a mistake in your
    favor. The billing system was written very carefully NEVER to make a favor
    in the customer's favor. If that happened, the company would go bankrupt or
    fall apart because the incompetent work force wouldn't have a clue where
    their money went. *Some* customer's just blow it off and forget about
    it...and there's the rub. Those customer's that do that just dumped millions
    into Verizon's bank account. If you make *mistakes* to millions of
    customer's your bound to get some money out of it. And that's Verizon's
    thinking. Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of
    Verizon.

    "QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
    > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > Choice" plan.
    >
    > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    > per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
    > charges and additional benefits.
    >
    > They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
    > bill came, with some surprises:
    >
    > 1/ TRICK
    >
    > Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
    > SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
    > can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
    > 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
    >
    > The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    > pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
    > beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
    > peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
    > pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
    > enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
    > minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
    >
    > 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
    >
    > The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
    > Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
    > 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
    >
    > The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
    > 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
    > 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
    >
    > 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
    >
    > They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    > activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
    > per line on two-year agreements."
    >
    > My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    > department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    > activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
    > their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
    >
    > Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
    >
    > QE in NJ
  4. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    QuienEs wrote:
    >
    > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > Choice" plan.
    >
    > <snip>

    Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?

    Notan
  5. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    >
    > They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    > activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
    > per line on two-year agreements."
    >
    > My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    > department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    > activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
    > their for everyone.


    I had the same billing computer mistake, It is how the Executives at VZW
    make thier xmas bonuses. ;-)


    --
    peter_may_day

    To email me, remove underwear, and insert, my name
    my_name@yahoounderwear.com

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/who-called-me/
    Directory of unlisted phone numbers

    --
  6. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    In article <pOKEc.2$YK5.1@fe32.usenetserver.com>,
    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote:

    > My god, hasn't anyone read my posts about this company? They will of course
    > make EVERY mistake in their favor. Never will you find a mistake in your
    > favor. The billing system was written very carefully NEVER to make a favor
    > in the customer's favor. If that happened, the company would go bankrupt or
    > fall apart because the incompetent work force wouldn't have a clue where
    > their money went. *Some* customer's just blow it off and forget about
    > it...and there's the rub. Those customer's that do that just dumped millions
    > into Verizon's bank account. If you make *mistakes* to millions of
    > customer's your bound to get some money out of it. And that's Verizon's
    > thinking. Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of
    > Verizon.

    You know, I've had a few issues with Verizon over the last couple of
    years... but the good *far* outweighs the bad.

    For example, they recently sent me 3 phones at *NO* cost to me when they
    didn't even have to give me the time of day.

    I had problems with my 3 Motorola V60s phones I bought 2 months ago. I
    went to a local re-seller (Grand Wireless of Warwick Rhode Island) and
    re-upped my contract for 2 years. I then upgraded from 2 V60i's to 3
    V60s's for $40 bucks each.

    After about 3 weeks, I noticed that I was not getting some calls. The
    call would come in to the phone, and the phone would not ring. It
    wouldn't show on the outer or inner screen - but would show up in the
    Recent Calls Log on the phone. You could call it with the phone in your
    hand, and there was no indication that a call was coming in... but it
    definitetly *was* receiving a call.

    ( - Check out old threads on this group for the full story - )

    Then I noticed that it was happening at random times to each of the 3
    phones. Same phones, in the same room, with good battery strength and
    great signal strength. One phone would *not* work, while the other two
    were fine. Rebooting the phone fixed the problem for a time

    Motorola tried to flash upgrade the software, but that didn't work. I
    then found out that there were others out there with the *exact* same
    problem. Grand Wireless didn't want to hear it. The gave me a few lame
    suggestions, but really didn't want to bother.

    So I called Verizon Customer Service. THEY called Grand Wireless and
    got them to agree to swap out my 3 phones for 3 different models. To
    make a long story short, Grand Wireless agreed to this, but proceeded to
    give me the runaround for a week and a half - but finally told me to
    come in and swap out the V60s's for LG 4400's. (Their choice, not
    mine....)

    When I got down there, they informed me that, yes, I could swap out the
    phones... but I would have to pay an extra $79.99 per phone for the
    privilege. That's an extra $240 bucks, on top of the $120 I'd already
    paid originally.

    Well, screw that! I called Verizon back and read them the Riot Act.
    (Not because they did anything to cause my problem... but because they
    laid the initial ground work with Grand Wireless for the swap out.)

    I talked to a Supervisor who asked me what I wanted. I said "3 new
    phones that work". She asked me if I had any particular phone in mind -
    and I told her about the Samsung a530 I had researched on the net. She
    took my name and address down and said they would take care of it.

    Two days later, I received 3 new Samsung a530's via FedEx. I activated
    all 3 in about 20 minutes over the phone. Problem solved.

    To cap it all off, I called back and asked for the address I was
    supposed to send the 3 Motorola phones back to - and was told that I
    could "keep them as backups". Since I didn't buy them from Verizon,
    they had no interest in getting them back. She said I could keep them
    as Emergency phones, since any cell phone can dial "911", even if you
    don't subscribe to a service.

    > Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of Verizon.

    Not in this guy's opinion... I got 3 brandy-new phones for zip... I
    got great customer service.. and I got that bad taste out of my mouth
    from pricks at Grand Wireless.

    Fred

    --
    "Light moves faster than sound. That's why some
    folks appear bright until you hear them speak..."
  7. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
    by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
    their subscriber.

    What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
    when I have time.

    The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
    of this NG, and see if we missed anything.

    Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
    was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
    still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
    wife's work building.

    QE
    ===========

    On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:

    |QuienEs wrote:
    |>
    |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    |> Choice" plan.
    |>
    |> <snip>
    |
    |Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
    |
    |Notan
  8. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    QuienEs wrote:
    > Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
    > by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
    > their subscriber.
    >
    > What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
    > when I have time.
    >
    > The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
    > of this NG, and see if we missed anything.
    >
    > Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
    > was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
    > still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
    > wife's work building.
    >
    > QE
    > ===========
    >
    > On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:
    >
    > |QuienEs wrote:
    > |>
    > |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > |> Choice" plan.
    > |>
    > |> <snip>
    > |
    > |Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
    > |
    > |Notan
    >

    They did the same thing to me when I switched to the family plan in the
    middle of the month. I refused to accept losing nearly 200 minutes
    because Verizon has a policy to always extract the most from their
    customers. Since I wasn't told the policy upfront, customer service
    agreed to allow the total minutes I would have had coming, had they not
    "pro-rated."

    I have dropped Verizon dsl, pots, and just as soon as another provider
    builds up their network to the point where they can provide the service
    I need, I will finally drop Verizon wireless.

    If you think about it, "Killer Madness" may not be as "mad" as he
    appears. The fact is that your relatives would not have to worry about
    customer service making things right if Verizon didn't have a policy
    that unfairly penalizes customers.

    Tom
  9. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:01:53 -0700, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    wrote:

    |Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
    |The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
    |prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
    |cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.

    As I recall, it starts on the 14th. As to the rest of your post, it
    looks like you cut-and-pasted in some "boilerplate" - I did not
    mention holidays. Nobody carries over minutes except Cingular
    around here. As to calling them, read my post above.
    |
    |This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
    |service usually has the overage charges refunded before
    |you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
    |if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
    |they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.
    |
    |Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
    |Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
    |prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
    |do not carry over from month to month and not all
    |months have holidays in them. How would you
    |resolve that?
    |
    |The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
    |sales person entering the contracts.
    |
    |Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
    |Try calling customer service and explain what
    |happened and ask what they can do for you.
    |
    |-Quick
    |
    |QuienEs wrote:
    |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    |> Choice" plan.
    |>
    |> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    |> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
    |> charges and additional benefits.
    |>
    |> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
    |> bill came, with some surprises:
    |>
    |> 1/ TRICK
    |>
    |> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
    |> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your
    "month"
    |> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
    |> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
    |>
    |> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    |> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
    |> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had
    400
    |> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
    |> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
    |> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents
    per
    |> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
    |>
    |> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
    |>
    |> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
    |> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year
    by
    |> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
    |>
    |> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are
    free.
    |> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes
    apply.
    |> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
    |>
    |> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
    |>
    |> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    |> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation
    fee
    |> per line on two-year agreements."
    |>
    |> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    |> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    |> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume
    that
    |> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
    |>
    |> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
    |>
    |> QE in NJ
    |
  10. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:24:07 GMT, QuienEs
    <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote:
    >The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    >pro-rated partial month.

    This is old news. When I signed-up at a Verizon store, the agent
    explained this to me and told me exactly how many minutes I would have
    for peak, off-peak, and mobile-to-mobile during the first two days.

    If you call them (and be nice!!), you'll probably find that they refund
    the extra amount with no problems. A co-worker of mine just had this
    problem with a plan change in the middle of the month, and Verizon
    refunded the money with no hassle.

    >My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    >department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    >activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
    >their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.

    Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There are
    Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of them?)
    But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
    aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Clarification to my OP

    I posted it to document what they did and get some joy that it will be
    archived in Google Groups forever, and to see if I have missed any
    other tricks. I wasn't a reader of this particular NG until today.

    What KM says below is in sync with my feelings. Maybe someday there
    will be a class action suit about the 13-minutes vs. 18-minutes scam.
    Over the years I have automatically received the benefits of such
    suits, no great shakes, but I got several free calling cards from MCI
    and AT&T. The trick there is that they run out too soon if you don't
    use them. The lawyers got paid in cash.

    BTW, after years of suffering from this kind of corporate abuse, I
    already know how to handle this with Verizon and agree with the
    posters who said call them up and be nice. But why should we have to
    waste time on that ? And what about the millions who don't check
    their bills carefully ?

    Pragmatic, pessimistic QE
    ======================


    On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:38:15 -0400, "Killer Madness"
    <killermo@cnet.com> wrote:

    |My god, hasn't anyone read my posts about this company? They will of
    course
    |make EVERY mistake in their favor. Never will you find a mistake in
    your
    |favor. The billing system was written very carefully NEVER to make a
    favor
    |in the customer's favor. If that happened, the company would go
    bankrupt or
    |fall apart because the incompetent work force wouldn't have a clue
    where
    |their money went. *Some* customer's just blow it off and forget about
    |it...and there's the rub. Those customer's that do that just dumped
    millions
    |into Verizon's bank account. If you make *mistakes* to millions of
    |customer's your bound to get some money out of it. And that's
    Verizon's
    |thinking. Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of
    |Verizon.
    |
    |"QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
    |news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
    |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    |> Choice" plan.
    |>
    |> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    |> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
    |> charges and additional benefits.
    |>
    |> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
    |> bill came, with some surprises:
    |>
    |> 1/ TRICK
    |>
    |> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
    |> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your
    "month"
    |> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
    |> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
    |>
    |> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    |> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
    |> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had
    400
    |> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
    |> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
    |> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents
    per
    |> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
    |>
    |> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
    |>
    |> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
    |> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year
    by
    |> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
    |>
    |> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are
    free.
    |> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes
    apply.
    |> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
    |>
    |> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
    |>
    |> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    |> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation
    fee
    |> per line on two-year agreements."
    |>
    |> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    |> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    |> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume
    that
    |> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
    |>
    |> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
    |>
    |> QE in NJ
    |
    |
  12. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Thank you Tom. And of course we'll come to expect people saying, "did you
    read the fine print", or, "did you ask those questions before signing". I
    bet half the people in this group has been robbed or has had money taken
    from them every month without even knowing about it. Not a lot of money to
    notice right away...but like I said before. When you have billing *mistakes*
    happen to hundred of thousands of people, your going to get a lot of money
    out of it.

    "Tom" <tom@cox.net> wrote in message news:a3LEc.16232$rf7.8402@lakeread02...
    > QuienEs wrote:
    > > Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
    > > by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
    > > their subscriber.
    > >
    > > What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
    > > when I have time.
    > >
    > > The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
    > > of this NG, and see if we missed anything.
    > >
    > > Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
    > > was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
    > > still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
    > > wife's work building.
    > >
    > > QE
    > > ===========
    > >
    > > On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > |QuienEs wrote:
    > > |>
    > > |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > > |> Choice" plan.
    > > |>
    > > |> <snip>
    > > |
    > > |Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
    > > |
    > > |Notan
    > >
    >
    > They did the same thing to me when I switched to the family plan in the
    > middle of the month. I refused to accept losing nearly 200 minutes
    > because Verizon has a policy to always extract the most from their
    > customers. Since I wasn't told the policy upfront, customer service
    > agreed to allow the total minutes I would have had coming, had they not
    > "pro-rated."
    >
    > I have dropped Verizon dsl, pots, and just as soon as another provider
    > builds up their network to the point where they can provide the service
    > I need, I will finally drop Verizon wireless.
    >
    > If you think about it, "Killer Madness" may not be as "mad" as he
    > appears. The fact is that your relatives would not have to worry about
    > customer service making things right if Verizon didn't have a policy
    > that unfairly penalizes customers.
    >
    > Tom
  13. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Sorry...that's not going to work. You'll get an arrogant incompetent
    customer service person helping you out who doesn't like your attitude and
    then you'll never get any kind of customer service satisfaction at all.
    Remember, they have the best cellular network in the world...so we have to
    bow down to them and let them take advantage of us and charge high prices.

    "Alesandra" <rubyebbyrdNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:2khbe8F2akdeU1@uni-berlin.de...
    > Talk with customer care. Make that "worry free guarantee" work and let us
    > know
    >
    > "QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
    > news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
    > > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > > Choice" plan.
    > >
    > > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    >
    >
  14. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Baloney.....:( C'mon already, knock it off......!

    PC

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
    news:0FUEc.3364$YK5.2588@fe32.usenetserver.com...
    | Sorry...that's not going to work. You'll get an arrogant incompetent
    | customer service person helping you out who doesn't like your attitude and
    | then you'll never get any kind of customer service satisfaction at all.
    | Remember, they have the best cellular network in the world...so we have to
    | bow down to them and let them take advantage of us and charge high prices.
    |
    | "Alesandra" <rubyebbyrdNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    | news:2khbe8F2akdeU1@uni-berlin.de...
    | > Talk with customer care. Make that "worry free guarantee" work and let
    us
    | > know
    | >
    | > "QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
    | > news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
    | > > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    | > > Choice" plan.
    | > >
    | > > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
    |
  15. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    QuienEs wrote:
    > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:01:53 -0700, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
    >> The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
    >> prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
    >> cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.
    >
    > As I recall, it starts on the 14th. As to the rest of your post, it
    > looks like you cut-and-pasted in some "boilerplate" - I did not
    > mention holidays. Nobody carries over minutes except Cingular
    > around here. As to calling them, read my post above.

    Yes, it probably does sound like some "boilerplate". You
    (or your relatives) must be about the 1,532,349th person
    to not hear about/listen to/understand the initial prorating.
    So the answer is pretty much refined to something that
    sounds the same every time. Sorry, you haven't unearthed
    some previously unknown Enron magnitude "scam". To
    the best of my knowledge customer service has refunded
    the overage in 1,532,337 of those cases for new customers.
    Thank you for trying to protect all of us though.

    What's the hold up on your relatives calling customer service?
    *611 works 24x7. You and they have free long distance.
    Should take all of 15 minutes including your posting the results.

    -Quick
  16. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    > "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    >
    >>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you are
    >>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    >
    > That was uncalled for.

    No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream about
    how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd already have
    taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to another
    carrier.

    I used to be a wage-slave flunkie working at a gas station owned by one
    of the big oil companies (now I'm a self-employed, slightly better-paid
    flunkie :)

    I recall an experience with a customer who was a cantankerous jerk (though,
    in his defense, he was also an extremely loyal, regular customer).

    At the time, we were selling a small bottle of V8 for 89 cents and tomato
    juice (the same size) for 99 cents. Or it may be the other way around; the
    important thing is that one was 89 cents and the other one was 99.

    So the customer pumps his gas, and walks in and picks out the 89-cent
    product and brings it to the counter, but I mistakenly think it's the 99-cent
    product. HOWEVER, I catch myself before I ring it up and, thinking out loud,
    I say, "Oops, this isn't 99, it's 89."

    This, of course, prompts the customer to tell me I'm trying to cheat him.

    Duh, if I was trying to cheat him I'd just have rung it up at 89 and kept
    the dime. Besides, if I was going to risk my lousy little minimum-wage job
    by screwing over a customer, I'd have attempted to screw over a customer
    for a lot more than a dime. A dime is not worth the trouble. :)

    Point being - there *are* people who will take a situation and twist it around
    to portray it in the worst light possible. KM seems to be one of those people.
    OTOH, maybe he's just an idiot troll.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Steven J Sobol wrote:
    > Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    >> "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage -
    >>> you are excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    >>
    >> That was uncalled for.
    >
    > No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream
    > about how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed
    > he'd already have taken action against Verizon, including dropping
    > them and going to another carrier.

    Ummm, KM has *never* given any particulars about what tripped
    his trigger. The only thing he said was that he was a VZW subscriber
    for years that he is now with AT&T with a COOL phone. I'm sure
    he is only here for altruistic reasons to help all of us to see the light
    as he did after many years of suffering.

    -Quick
  18. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Proconsul wrote:


    > | > Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There are
    > | > Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of them?)
    > | > But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
    > | > aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.


    It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
    service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
    they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
    mentioned to me.

    Picture this - I have an 800 minute plan and exactly midway through the
    month I decide to add a line with a family share plan. If I had used
    600 minutes at this point leaving me with 200 minutes left to use over
    the balance of the month, I would have, under Verizon's pro-rated
    method, used 200 minutes more than I am allotted under their pro-rating.
    Despite the fact that I have 800 minutes to use at any time during my
    monthly period, Verizon will penalize me by charging me for using 200
    minutes in overage, in my case 200 X $.45 minute = $90, instead of
    allowing me to use the actual 400 minutes that I had not used. In other
    words, Verizon says I should have only used 400 minutes halfway through
    the month, despite the fact that it is normally my choice when and how I
    use the minutes.

    I do not consider Verizon's pro-rating policy to be customer friendly at
    all. I also object to spending my time trying to have money returned
    that should have never been taken from me in the first place. I do
    agree that it is better to be "nice," since this is a policy of Verizon
    management, not the csr. Tom
  19. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Tom <tom@cox.net> wrote:

    > It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
    > service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
    > they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
    > mentioned to me.

    Everyone pro-rates. I was told by Sprint that if I add a phone on the
    date my bill cycles (normally the 29th) I won't have to be pro-rated,
    otherwise I will. I've had the same situation with Verizon in the past too.

    But there is absolutely no excuse for not telling a customer up front.
    If a VZW employee fails to tell people about prorating on a regular basis,
    IMHO they should get canned, as they are pissing off customers unnecessarily.

    > I do not consider Verizon's pro-rating policy to be customer friendly at
    > all.

    I do agree, not about the fact that they pro-rate being ufnair, but I agree
    that the way they do it is ridiculous. Hell, even most of the VZW CSRs I've
    talked to about the subject agree with me.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Tom wrote:
    > Proconsul wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>> Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There
    >>>> are Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one
    >>>> of them?) But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't
    >>>> get so aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
    >
    >
    > It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
    > service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
    > they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
    > mentioned to me.
    >
    > Picture this - I have an 800 minute plan and exactly midway through
    > the month I decide to add a line with a family share plan. If I had
    > used 600 minutes at this point leaving me with 200 minutes left to
    > use over the balance of the month, I would have, under Verizon's
    > pro-rated method, used 200 minutes more than I am allotted under
    > their pro-rating. Despite the fact that I have 800 minutes to use
    > at any time during my monthly period, Verizon will penalize me by
    > charging me for using 200 minutes in overage, in my case 200 X $.45
    > minute = $90, instead of allowing me to use the actual 400 minutes
    > that I had not used. In other words, Verizon says I should have only
    > used 400 minutes halfway through the month, despite the fact that it
    > is normally my choice when and how I use the minutes.

    Sure. *IF* you have your plan for the entire month. You decided
    to terminate your plan in the middle of the month and switch to a new plan.
    How do you propose they charge you? How should they charge
    if you used 1500 minutes of a 2000 minute plan by the middle of the
    month and want to switch to a 400 minute plan?

    I must have switched plans 10 times over the past years. *Every* time
    the CS rep. has strongly suggested that I wait until the end of the billing
    period so as not to get caught with prorating charges. It actually bugs
    me somewhat that I have to take the time to tell them that I am actually
    capable of grasping how prorating works and am then forced to listen
    while it is explained again in excrutiating detail. If I was VZW I would
    cut a lot of overhead by simply not allowing people to switch plans in
    the middle of a billing period.

    I'm pretty sure I've seen the prorating explained in writing as well
    (wasn't it on my contract?)... maybe in the brochures I got with
    every new plan?

    -Quick
  21. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Steven J Sobol wrote:
    >
    > I do agree, not about the fact that they pro-rate being ufnair, but I
    > agree that the way they do it is ridiculous. Hell, even most of the
    > VZW CSRs I've talked to about the subject agree with me.

    And the alternative method would be? (must work for switching
    to a smaller plan too).

    -Quick
  22. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    QuienEs <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote:
    : The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    : pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
    : beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
    : peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
    : pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
    : enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
    : minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".

    ...when I started up my plan, the rep explained when "my month" started,
    and that the first x days would be pro-rated. Their rep should have told
    them that too (and I'll bet they have it in writing on the contract(s)
    they signed, too).

    : 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
    :
    : They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    : activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
    : per line on two-year agreements."
    :
    : My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    : department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    : activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
    : their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.

    I had an activation fee on my first bill which shouldn't have been there.
    I called Verizon and the guy took the charge off. Have they tried that
    yet?

    -Charles

    --
    Charles Robinson
    Minneapolis, MN
    charlesr@visi.com
    http://www.visi.com/~charlesr
  23. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Killer Madness <killermo@cnet.com> wrote:
    : I'm taking a dump. You can't be serious to *have* to be nice to get some
    : help, specially when it's a known billing mistake or a frauderlant code
    : written in their billing software.

    Please - it's "fraudulent", not frauderlent.

    ...and I know that when I deal with upset customers, I'm much more inclined
    to help out the people who are calm, rational, and polite.

    If your angle is to always be confrontational and angry with them (which
    it sounds like you are recommending) then it's not surprising that you
    don't get satisfaction from calling customer service!

    --
    Charles Robinson
    Minneapolis, MN
    charlesr@visi.com
    http://www.visi.com/~charlesr
  24. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Quick wrote:


    > Sure. *IF* you have your plan for the entire month. You decided
    > to terminate your plan in the middle of the month and switch to a new plan.
    I didn't consider myself to have terminated my plan; I thought I added
    to it. Point of fact; had the rep. told me of Verizon's policy, I would
    have emphatically said, "No thanks."

    > How do you propose they charge you?
    I should have had the balance of the month to use the balance of my
    minutes (had I only 10 minutes left for the month, that is the time I
    would expect to still have after making the change). I would then
    expect to pay a pro-rated amount for the time I had the additional
    benefit of the family share plan. At $19.99 mo. per line, a half month
    should have cost me $10.

    How should they charge
    > if you used 1500 minutes of a 2000 minute plan by the middle of the
    > month and want to switch to a 400 minute plan?
    Your example is not at all like what I described, but in your example I
    would expect to pay the over usage fee of 500 mins. X $.45, since I
    would be downgrading to a lower minute plan.

    > I must have switched plans 10 times over the past years. *Every* time
    > the CS rep. has strongly suggested that I wait until the end of the billing
    > period so as not to get caught with prorating charges. It actually bugs
    > me somewhat that I have to take the time to tell them that I am actually
    > capable of grasping how prorating works and am then forced to listen
    > while it is explained again in excrutiating detail. If I was VZW I would
    > cut a lot of overhead by simply not allowing people to switch plans in
    > the middle of a billing period.
    Like I said, the csr did NOT mention the pro-rating. Had he done so, I
    would have simply waited until the first day of my new billing cycle.

    > I'm pretty sure I've seen the prorating explained in writing as well
    > (wasn't it on my contract?)...

    I don't remember; by the time I finished reading the contract I had a
    headache and truly wished I didn't need a cell phone.

    Tom
  25. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Tom wrote:
    > Quick wrote:
    >> Sure. *IF* you have your plan for the entire month. You decided
    >> to terminate your plan in the middle of the month and switch to a
    >> new plan.
    > I didn't consider myself to have terminated my plan; I thought I added
    > to it. Point of fact; had the rep. told me of Verizon's policy, I
    > would have emphatically said, "No thanks."

    Fine. Possibly a shortcoming on the part of the rep. They're human and
    some are better than others. Technically, this is all explained in your
    contract and literature given you and/or mailed to youwhen you first
    get service. The CS executed per your instructions. They failed to
    make sure you actually understood what you were doing. It's pretty
    clear that they have individual plans and family share plans. I will
    assume that when you added a line you made the assumption that
    it was simply a matter of terminology and actually the same plan?
    So yes, the rep probably could have avoided the whole thing by
    being more concientious but it was actually your doing. The
    prorate "surprise" happens *a lot* and it seems that VZW's
    general policy is to give customers a break the first time.
    Especially the prorate when establishing new service.

    >> How do you propose they charge you?
    > I should have had the balance of the month to use the balance of my
    > minutes (had I only 10 minutes left for the month, that is the time I
    > would expect to still have after making the change). I would then
    > expect to pay a pro-rated amount for the time I had the additional
    > benefit of the family share plan. At $19.99 mo. per line, a half month
    > should have cost me $10.

    Ok, consistent with your assumption that it was the same plan with
    a line added to it.

    > How should they charge
    >> if you used 1500 minutes of a 2000 minute plan by the middle of the
    >> month and want to switch to a 400 minute plan?
    > Your example is not at all like what I described, but in your example
    > I would expect to pay the over usage fee of 500 mins. X $.45, since I
    > would be downgrading to a lower minute plan.

    Correct, that's how they do it but they don't differentiate between going
    up, down, or sideways to the new plan.

    > Like I said, the csr did NOT mention the pro-rating. Had he done so,
    > I would have simply waited until the first day of my new billing
    > cycle.

    >> I'm pretty sure I've seen the prorating explained in writing as well
    >> (wasn't it on my contract?)...
    >
    > I don't remember; by the time I finished reading the contract I had a
    > headache and truly wished I didn't need a cell phone.

    Weak excuse. Understandable, but weak. Your decision of effort
    vs. risk. You didn't put forth the effort to understand what you were
    doing, the rep didn't put forth the effort make sure you understood
    what you were doing, you were surprised, they cut you slack and
    credited you the overage. You're upset that you had to call them
    to say you didn't understand and the rep didn't make sure you
    understood?

    They have made changes where (most of the time) sales and CS
    will stress the prorating (they didn't do this some time ago). If
    I were them I would do away with mid-cycle plan changes. I
    find them convenient. Upcomming wedding, trip, job, etc. switch
    up in plans. Then switch back down to normal. On Local Digital
    Choice and going out of town for a week or 2 of vacation? Switch
    to AC and switch back next month.

    Here is something I don't know about: How many times can you
    switch plans in a single month?

    -Quick
  26. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Tom wrote:

    > Quick wrote:
    >
    >

    > How should they charge
    >
    >> if you used 1500 minutes of a 2000 minute plan by the middle of the
    >> month and want to switch to a 400 minute plan?
    >
    > Your example is not at all like what I described, but in your example I
    > would expect to pay the over usage fee of 500 mins. X $.45, since I
    > would be downgrading to a lower minute plan.

    Edit:
    Actually, with your example, I would have waited until the end of the
    month to switch. Tom
  27. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Quick <dhorwitz@nospamcisco.com> wrote:

    > What? You mean you couldn't have made the plan change a
    > couple of days early to be *effective* on you billing cycle?
    > It would change in the system at midnight, last day of the
    > current plan.

    Um, I could have, actually a CSR offered to do this for me; but I still
    would have to wait 30 days, regardless. Even if the change takes effect at
    midnight on the first day of the billing cycle, you still have to pay the
    full bill according to the plan *you just switched from* and while you wait
    30 days to get your money back, it sits in VZW's checking account, presumably
    collecting interest. 'Scuse me? I don't think so. As I pointed out to the CSR
    I was talking to, VZW will turn my service off if I wait thirty days to pay
    my bill. They obviously expect prompt payment. Therefore, when I am due a
    credit, I will expect prompt issuance of the credit from them.

    And it is a problem because not only am I switching due to things being
    broken here and not getting fixed, I'm trying to minimize my cellular costs
    right now; I'm underemployed and looking for contract work at this particular
    moment. I need the money *now.*

    I complained long enough to end up getting a credit for my troubles from
    the CSR, but it still hasn't posted yet. I'll give it another day or two
    before I complain; I've been issued recent credits for dropped-call problems
    and they seem to take an average of three business days to make it to my
    account.

    The one other time I had a credit issue was when VZW mistakenly posted a
    check that was supposed to have been post-dated. They very readily agreed
    to give me my money back, but said it would take six to eight weeks, after
    which I informed them that they would be paying all of my bounced check fees
    if they did. I had to keep on them, and that meant calling every day, but I
    managed to get the check within about a week, and got the check deposited
    just in time, before other stuff started bouncing.

    If VZW owes you a credit, you *really* have to hound them...

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  28. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Quick wrote:


    > Fine. Possibly a shortcoming on the part of the rep.
    Possibly? Listen up; the pro-rating wasn't mentioned.


    The CS executed per your instructions.
    You just refuse to get the point, don't you?

    It's pretty
    > clear that they have individual plans and family share plans. I will
    > assume that when you added a line you made the assumption that
    > it was simply a matter of terminology and actually the same plan?
    > So yes, the rep probably could have avoided the whole thing by
    > being more concientious but it was actually your doing

    Ok. On the one hand we have Killer Madness who doesn't like anything
    about Verizon; no, I'm wrong, he did mention Verizon had a good network.

    Quick, on the other hand, can't find a thing wrong with Verizon that
    doesn't somehow relate to a deficiency on the part of the customer.

    Get this straight. Verizon's pro-rating policy is clearly intended to
    be favorable to Verizon at the expense of the customer. Verizon could
    have just as easily done it the way I described - at least under the
    circumstances I mentioned. Verizon talks a lot about customer service,
    but when it comes to performing, Verizon often drops the ball; just like
    when the csr failed to mention the pro-rating. Despite your comments,
    customers should not have to comb over the contract in order to make
    minor changes to their contracts.

    Tom
  29. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    I vote "idiot troll"....

    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:r-GdncSlIYhHrHndRVn-hQ@lmi.net...
    > Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    > > "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you are
    > >>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    > >
    > > That was uncalled for.
    >
    > No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream about
    > how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd already have
    > taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to another
    > carrier.
    >
    > I used to be a wage-slave flunkie working at a gas station owned by one
    > of the big oil companies (now I'm a self-employed, slightly better-paid
    > flunkie :)
    >
    > I recall an experience with a customer who was a cantankerous jerk (though,
    > in his defense, he was also an extremely loyal, regular customer).
    >
    > At the time, we were selling a small bottle of V8 for 89 cents and tomato
    > juice (the same size) for 99 cents. Or it may be the other way around; the
    > important thing is that one was 89 cents and the other one was 99.
    >
    > So the customer pumps his gas, and walks in and picks out the 89-cent
    > product and brings it to the counter, but I mistakenly think it's the 99-cent
    > product. HOWEVER, I catch myself before I ring it up and, thinking out loud,
    > I say, "Oops, this isn't 99, it's 89."
    >
    > This, of course, prompts the customer to tell me I'm trying to cheat him.
    >
    > Duh, if I was trying to cheat him I'd just have rung it up at 89 and kept
    > the dime. Besides, if I was going to risk my lousy little minimum-wage job
    > by screwing over a customer, I'd have attempted to screw over a customer
    > for a lot more than a dime. A dime is not worth the trouble. :)
    >
    > Point being - there *are* people who will take a situation and twist it around
    > to portray it in the worst light possible. KM seems to be one of those people.
    > OTOH, maybe he's just an idiot troll.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    > Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    > PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    > Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  30. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Steven J Sobol wrote:


    > And it is a problem because not only am I switching due to things being
    > broken here and not getting fixed, I'm trying to minimize my cellular costs
    > right now; I'm underemployed and looking for contract work at this particular
    > moment. I need the money *now.*

    Good luck with your search for contract work. Tom
  31. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Tom <tom@cox.net> wrote:
    >> And it is a problem because not only am I switching due to things being
    >> broken here and not getting fixed, I'm trying to minimize my cellular costs
    >> right now; I'm underemployed and looking for contract work at this particular
    >> moment. I need the money *now.*
    >
    > Good luck with your search for contract work. Tom

    I'm not too worried about it... it is coming, it's just taking its sweet
    time :P

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  32. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    "QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
    > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > Choice" plan.
    >
    > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    > per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
    > charges and additional benefits.
    >
    > They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
    > bill came, with some surprises:
    >snipped


    Minutes are figured on monthly basis, not yearly. They divide 30 days into
    whatever plan you have. Yes, it doesn't take into account there are some
    days that may be weekend days but thats just how it works. Its not some big
    scam you are making it out to be. Its clearly laid out in the Customer
    Agreement. It should have been explained to them when they got the phones.
    There is even a printout that comes with the contract that shows exactly the
    prorated charge for the month and the minutes allowed.

    As far as the activation fees, I have never seen anyone get charged
    incorrectly on them. A simple call to CS should fix that. Would of been
    alot quicker than coming on here and posting about it.


    KC
  33. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

    >Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    >> "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you are
    >>>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    >>
    >> That was uncalled for.
    >
    >No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream about
    >how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd already have
    >taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to another
    >carrier.

    I'm not objecting to your portrayal of him. I'm objecting to your
    stereotypes about people who take lithium.


    ==
    Jack Hamilton
    jfh@acm.org

    ==
    In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted comfort and security.
    And in the end, they lost it all - freedom, comfort and security.
    Edward Gibbons
  34. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    "Giambi" <byegiambi2WINNER@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >"Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message
    >news:R8VEc.6145$151.1579@fed1read02...
    >> Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you
    >are
    >> excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    >
    >Not so far from the truth. If you're wondering where our friend Killer
    >suddenly came from about a month ago (and why he might have some spare time
    >on his hands, along with the shitty attitude), here's a clue:
    >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=lfednQBj-ZyZRjPdRVn-gg%40comcast.com

    Different host name, different news server. No indication they're the
    same person.


    ==
    Jack Hamilton
    jfh@acm.org

    ==
    In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted comfort and security.
    And in the end, they lost it all - freedom, comfort and security.
    Edward Gibbons
  35. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    customer's favor. How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    favor. Most of you have missed my point and are only thinking of yourselves
    and have no clue on what I've been saying the last couple months. I'm even
    talking like white trailer-trash teenager and still no one can understand
    me.


    "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    news:r-GdncSlIYhHrHndRVn-hQ@lmi.net...
    > Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    > > "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you
    are
    > >>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    > >
    > > That was uncalled for.
    >
    > No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream
    about
    > how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd already
    have
    > taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to another
    > carrier.
    >
    > I used to be a wage-slave flunkie working at a gas station owned by one
    > of the big oil companies (now I'm a self-employed, slightly better-paid
    > flunkie :)
    >
    > I recall an experience with a customer who was a cantankerous jerk
    (though,
    > in his defense, he was also an extremely loyal, regular customer).
    >
    > At the time, we were selling a small bottle of V8 for 89 cents and tomato
    > juice (the same size) for 99 cents. Or it may be the other way around; the
    > important thing is that one was 89 cents and the other one was 99.
    >
    > So the customer pumps his gas, and walks in and picks out the 89-cent
    > product and brings it to the counter, but I mistakenly think it's the
    99-cent
    > product. HOWEVER, I catch myself before I ring it up and, thinking out
    loud,
    > I say, "Oops, this isn't 99, it's 89."
    >
    > This, of course, prompts the customer to tell me I'm trying to cheat him.
    >
    > Duh, if I was trying to cheat him I'd just have rung it up at 89 and kept
    > the dime. Besides, if I was going to risk my lousy little minimum-wage job
    > by screwing over a customer, I'd have attempted to screw over a customer
    > for a lot more than a dime. A dime is not worth the trouble. :)
    >
    > Point being - there *are* people who will take a situation and twist it
    around
    > to portray it in the worst light possible. KM seems to be one of those
    people.
    > OTOH, maybe he's just an idiot troll.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    > Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
    sjsobol@JustThe.net
    > PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    > Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  36. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Well, for sure SOMEONE hasn't got a clue.....:) I wonder who it might be???

    PC

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
    news:_14Fc.90692$904.5909@fe35.usenetserver.com...
    | Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    | customer's favor. How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    | The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    | favor. Most of you have missed my point and are only thinking of
    yourselves
    | and have no clue on what I've been saying the last couple months. I'm even
    | talking like white trailer-trash teenager and still no one can understand
    | me.
    |
    |
    | "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
    | news:r-GdncSlIYhHrHndRVn-hQ@lmi.net...
    | > Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    | > > "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    | > >
    | > >>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage -
    you
    | are
    | > >>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    | > >
    | > > That was uncalled for.
    | >
    | > No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream
    | about
    | > how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd
    already
    | have
    | > taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to
    another
    | > carrier.
    | >
    | > I used to be a wage-slave flunkie working at a gas station owned by one
    | > of the big oil companies (now I'm a self-employed, slightly better-paid
    | > flunkie :)
    | >
    | > I recall an experience with a customer who was a cantankerous jerk
    | (though,
    | > in his defense, he was also an extremely loyal, regular customer).
    | >
    | > At the time, we were selling a small bottle of V8 for 89 cents and
    tomato
    | > juice (the same size) for 99 cents. Or it may be the other way around;
    the
    | > important thing is that one was 89 cents and the other one was 99.
    | >
    | > So the customer pumps his gas, and walks in and picks out the 89-cent
    | > product and brings it to the counter, but I mistakenly think it's the
    | 99-cent
    | > product. HOWEVER, I catch myself before I ring it up and, thinking out
    | loud,
    | > I say, "Oops, this isn't 99, it's 89."
    | >
    | > This, of course, prompts the customer to tell me I'm trying to cheat
    him.
    | >
    | > Duh, if I was trying to cheat him I'd just have rung it up at 89 and
    kept
    | > the dime. Besides, if I was going to risk my lousy little minimum-wage
    job
    | > by screwing over a customer, I'd have attempted to screw over a customer
    | > for a lot more than a dime. A dime is not worth the trouble. :)
    | >
    | > Point being - there *are* people who will take a situation and twist it
    | around
    | > to portray it in the worst light possible. KM seems to be one of those
    | people.
    | > OTOH, maybe he's just an idiot troll.
    | >
    | > --
    | > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    | > Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
    | sjsobol@JustThe.net
    | > PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    | > Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three
    kids.
    |
    |
    |
  37. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    "Jack Hamilton" <jfh@acm.org> wrote in message
    news:bjq9e0laiatvop9u9mf5gpok8lf3rg1lh9@4ax.com...
    | Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
    |
    | >Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
    | >> "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    | >>
    | >>>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you
    are
    | >>>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    | >>
    | >> That was uncalled for.
    | >
    | >No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream
    about
    | >how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd
    already have
    | >taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to
    another
    | >carrier.
    |
    | I'm not objecting to your portrayal of him. I'm objecting to your
    | stereotypes about people who take lithium.

    Object away, that's your privilege - like so many, you take offense where
    none was offered and you ponderously proclaim virtuous "caring" when the
    situation clearly called for a little levity to counter the unceasing RAGE
    over a trifle.....

    The guy acts mightily like he needs lithium - or perhaps just tying his
    hands behind his back so he can't type would be enough.....:)

    Lighten up - that's what HE should do......

    PC


    |
    |
    |
    | ==
    | Jack Hamilton
    | jfh@acm.org
    |
    | ==
    | In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted comfort and
    security.
    | And in the end, they lost it all - freedom, comfort and security.
    | Edward Gibbons
  38. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    I didn't write the paragraph you're commenting on.....:)

    FWIW, Verizon's policy is clear, simple, direct, to the point and easily
    understood. There are those, however, who just must make a big deal out of
    nothing......

    PC

    "Tom" <tom@cox.net> wrote in message news:A4YEc.7$jp1.5@lakeread04...
    | Proconsul wrote:
    |
    |
    | > | > Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There
    are
    | > | > Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of
    them?)
    | > | > But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
    | > | > aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
    |
    |
    | It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
    | service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
    | they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
    | mentioned to me.
    |
    | Picture this - I have an 800 minute plan and exactly midway through the
    | month I decide to add a line with a family share plan. If I had used
    | 600 minutes at this point leaving me with 200 minutes left to use over
    | the balance of the month, I would have, under Verizon's pro-rated
    | method, used 200 minutes more than I am allotted under their pro-rating.
    | Despite the fact that I have 800 minutes to use at any time during my
    | monthly period, Verizon will penalize me by charging me for using 200
    | minutes in overage, in my case 200 X $.45 minute = $90, instead of
    | allowing me to use the actual 400 minutes that I had not used. In other
    | words, Verizon says I should have only used 400 minutes halfway through
    | the month, despite the fact that it is normally my choice when and how I
    | use the minutes.
    |
    | I do not consider Verizon's pro-rating policy to be customer friendly at
    | all. I also object to spending my time trying to have money returned
    | that should have never been taken from me in the first place. I do
    | agree that it is better to be "nice," since this is a policy of Verizon
    | management, not the csr. Tom
  39. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
    news:1088706049.846646@sj-nntpcache-3...
    | Tom wrote:
    |

    <snip>
    ?
    |
    | I must have switched plans 10 times over the past years. *Every* time
    | the CS rep. has strongly suggested that I wait until the end of the
    billing
    | period so as not to get caught with prorating charges. It actually bugs
    | me somewhat that I have to take the time to tell them that I am actually
    | capable of grasping how prorating works and am then forced to listen
    | while it is explained again in excrutiating detail. If I was VZW I would
    | cut a lot of overhead by simply not allowing people to switch plans in
    | the middle of a billing period.

    Fully agreed - I've changed plans many times, and the CSR has NEVER failed
    to warn about prorations and NEVER failed to suggest the best way to do
    things.....several times delaying the change until it would coincide with
    the billing cycle. All the complaining is, IMO, mostly sour grapes....

    PC
  40. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    "Giambi" <byegiambi2WINNER@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:2kjv54F36u8sU1@uni-berlin.de...
    | "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message
    | news:R8VEc.6145$151.1579@fed1read02...
    | > Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you
    | are
    | > excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
    |
    | Not so far from the truth. If you're wondering where our friend Killer
    | suddenly came from about a month ago (and why he might have some spare
    time
    | on his hands, along with the shitty attitude), here's a clue:
    |
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=lfednQBj-ZyZRjPdRVn-gg%40comcast.com

    I'm not surprised - his problem as reported in that link is serious. I hope
    things work out for him in that regard.....

    PC
  41. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Killer Madness wrote:
    >
    > Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    > customer's favor. How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    > The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    > favor. Most of you have missed my point and are only thinking of yourselves
    > and have no clue on what I've been saying the last couple months. I'm even
    > talking like white trailer-trash teenager and still no one can understand
    > me.

    It's not a matter of not having a clue, it's a matter of not really caring.

    Don't go away mad, just go away.

    Notan
  42. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    That activation fee mistake happened to me, too. I got my phone from a VZW
    store. I am not sure if the salesdroid explained to me on a expected
    partial billing.

    Random? I signed up last June 3. My first bill showed I had a partial from
    June 3 to June 11. My billing cycle is every 12th of the month.

    Why can't Verizon just start the billing cycle on the day of the signing of
    the contract???

    "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
    news:1088643865.996749@sj-nntpcache-3...
    > Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
    > The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
    > prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
    > cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.
    >
    > This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
    > service usually has the overage charges refunded before
    > you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
    > if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
    > they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.
    >
    > Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
    > Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
    > prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
    > do not carry over from month to month and not all
    > months have holidays in them. How would you
    > resolve that?
    >
    > The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
    > sales person entering the contracts.
    >
    > Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
    > Try calling customer service and explain what
    > happened and ask what they can do for you.
    >
    > -Quick
    >
    > QuienEs wrote:
    > > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    > > Choice" plan.
    > >
    > > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    > > per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
    > > charges and additional benefits.
    > >
    > > They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
    > > bill came, with some surprises:
    > >
    > > 1/ TRICK
    > >
    > > Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
    > > SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
    > > can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
    > > 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
    > >
    > > The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    > > pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
    > > beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
    > > peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
    > > pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
    > > enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
    > > minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
    > >
    > > 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
    > >
    > > The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
    > > Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
    > > 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
    > >
    > > The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
    > > 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
    > > 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
    > >
    > > 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
    > >
    > > They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    > > activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
    > > per line on two-year agreements."
    > >
    > > My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    > > department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    > > activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
    > > their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
    > >
    > > Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
    > >
    > > QE in NJ
    >
    >
  43. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Proconsul <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
    > I didn't write the paragraph you're commenting on.....:)
    >
    > FWIW, Verizon's policy is clear, simple, direct, to the point and easily
    > understood. There are those, however, who just must make a big deal out of
    > nothing......

    I kinda-sorta agree with you. The *concept* is easy enough to understand
    if it's explained by CS. Doing the math may be a different matter. <G>

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
  44. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    C C wrote:
    > That activation fee mistake happened to me, too. I got my phone from
    > a VZW store. I am not sure if the salesdroid explained to me on a
    > expected partial billing.

    doh!

    > Random? I signed up last June 3. My first bill showed I had a
    > partial from June 3 to June 11. My billing cycle is every 12th of
    > the month.
    >
    > Why can't Verizon just start the billing cycle on the day of the
    > signing of the contract???

    Sounds like a basis for your next class action.
    "VZW *always* starts your billing cycle a week or less after you
    sign up knowing that you will be using a lot of minutes immediately
    trying out your new phone and service which will result in proration
    overage charges resulting from their intentionally uncomprehensible
    prorating calculation." yea... that's the ticket.

    -Quick

    >
    > "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
    > news:1088643865.996749@sj-nntpcache-3...
    >> Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
    >> The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
    >> prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
    >> cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.
    >>
    >> This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
    >> service usually has the overage charges refunded before
    >> you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
    >> if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
    >> they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.
    >>
    >> Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
    >> Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
    >> prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
    >> do not carry over from month to month and not all
    >> months have holidays in them. How would you
    >> resolve that?
    >>
    >> The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
    >> sales person entering the contracts.
    >>
    >> Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
    >> Try calling customer service and explain what
    >> happened and ask what they can do for you.
    >>
    >> -Quick
    >>
    >> QuienEs wrote:
    >>> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
    >>> Choice" plan.
    >>>
    >>> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
    >>> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
    >>> charges and additional benefits.
    >>>
    >>> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
    >>> bill came, with some surprises:
    >>>
    >>> 1/ TRICK
    >>>
    >>> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
    >>> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your
    >>> "month" can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of
    >>> random, 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
    >>>
    >>> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
    >>> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
    >>> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had
    >>> 400 peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
    >>> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
    >>> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents
    >>> per minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
    >>>
    >>> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
    >>>
    >>> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
    >>> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
    >>> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
    >>>
    >>> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
    >>> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes
    >>> apply. 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
    >>>
    >>> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
    >>>
    >>> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
    >>> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation
    >>> fee per line on two-year agreements."
    >>>
    >>> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
    >>> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
    >>> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
    >>> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
    >>>
    >>> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
    >>>
    >>> QE in NJ
  45. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:48:29 -0400, "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com>
    wrote:
    >Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
    >customer's favor.

    Of course not. You'd have to be a moron to do that. Someone might see
    the post and fix the mistake. I've seen people do similar things
    regarding their Internet Service Provider (e.g., brag about how they're
    being undercharged), and two days later their account gets cut off.

    >How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
    >The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
    >favor.

    Oh, so you'd design a system that WOULD make mistakes in the customer's
    favor? I hope you don't look for a job in the software industry. I can
    see your resume now: Wrote a billing system that intentionally made
    mistakes. Sure!
  46. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:45:02 -0400, Tom <tom@cox.net> wrote:

    >Proconsul wrote:
    >
    >> | > Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There are
    >> | > Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of them?)
    >> | > But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
    >> | > aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
    >
    >It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
    >service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
    >they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
    >mentioned to me.

    The "mistake" I was referring to was the apparent failure of the agent to
    adequately describe the pro-rating of minutes during the initial billing
    period.
  47. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Sorry - you need to do your "editing" and "snipping" more carefully....I
    didn't write any of the words quoted below.....

    However, since you choose to address your comments to me, I'll reaffirm that
    I don't buy the usual complaint that the CSR screwed up. It's my experience
    that most people don't listen to what they're told and don't read what they
    sign. THEN, they feel self-righteous and complain to the high heavens when
    they find out they didn't understand what they signed or what they had been
    told....

    Calm down, lose the "attitude" and then talk to the service people - they'll
    cheerfully correct any real mistake, even if it's YOUR mistake......

    PC

    "Bob Scheurle" <njtbob2@X-optonline-X.net> wrote in message
    news:1cmbe0hdtkq2ae9l3p33k1lp2eg5r8fp6j@4ax.com...
    | On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:45:02 -0400, Tom <tom@cox.net> wrote:
    |
    | >Proconsul wrote:
    | >
    | >> | > Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There
    are
    | >> | > Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of
    them?)
    | >> | > But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
    | >> | > aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
    | >
    | >It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
    | >service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
    | >they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
    | >mentioned to me.
    |
    | The "mistake" I was referring to was the apparent failure of the agent to
    | adequately describe the pro-rating of minutes during the initial billing
    | period.
    |
  48. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    Proconsul wrote:
    > However, since you choose to address your comments to me, I'll reaffirm that
    > I don't buy the usual complaint that the CSR screwed up. It's my experience
    > that most people don't listen to what they're told and don't read what they
    > sign. THEN, they feel self-righteous and complain to the high heavens when
    > they find out they didn't understand what they signed or what they had been
    > told....

    While what you say is true, I can't understand why Verizon does it this
    way. Surely if the billing date was the same as the day the contract
    started then there wouldn't be anything to explain, omit, understand
    or make an error on.

    Roger
  49. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

    "Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in
    news:KDUEc.3347$YK5.1122@fe32.usenetserver.com:

    > Thank you Tom. And of course we'll come to expect people saying, "did
    > you read the fine print", or, "did you ask those questions before
    > signing". I bet half the people in this group has been robbed or has
    > had money taken from them every month without even knowing about it.
    > Not a lot of money to notice right away...but like I said before. When
    > you have billing *mistakes* happen to hundred of thousands of people,
    > your going to get a lot of money out of it.
    >

    Conversely, I won the lottery a few years ago when a credit for over $400
    showed up on my Verizon Wireless bill! I sat tight, figuring the idiots
    running the company would notice their error and kept putting money into
    the wireless pot to pay the bill after the error was discovered.

    The same idiots you've dealt with never noticed or wouldn't admit they'd
    made a mistake of this proportion to their managers, putting their asses on
    the block. So, I got a "Good Customer Bonus" for a few months before my
    credit ran out....to my delight.....(c;

    Does anyone but me ALWAYS overpay and recurring bill by some odd amount
    like 73 cents? I always do. If the bill is for $42, I send them a check
    for $42.73 and always maintain that little credit to my account. You just
    KNOW whatever company has these few dollars on that stupid computer have
    GOTTA screw up every so many billings......ad nauseum. I used to play this
    game with Bell$not landline for 30 years.....worked great!

    Larry
    try it....great fun.
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