round ca bles for new computer

Ege · Jul 14, 2003

I want to get round cables for my new computer:

mobo: Asus A78NX Deluxe rev.2

HD: WD 'special edition' 80gb EIDE. Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA100

DVD-rom: Pioneer Slot-feed. Interface: ATA PIO Mode4/Multi Word DMA

CD-RW: Lite On 52x24x52. Interface : ATAPI-E/IDE, support up to Ultra-DMA

Floppy: SONY 1.44MB 3.5 INCH INTERNAL FDD DRIVE - OEM

My question is: what are the best quality round cables i can get to connect all these components? ATA133? ATA100? SATA? Im a complete newb to this so don't laugh. Someone told me to get SATA cables for the Hard drive so i can upgrade later to an SATA drive... is this good advice?

RCPilot · Jul 14, 2003

I've never had much luck with rounded cables that are bought. I've always done my own (& that was a hell of a while ago) or run the PATA cables, just keep your case neat for air flow.

Honey, what's that smell? Don't bother me now I'm working on my computer! OOPS!

pIII_Man · Jul 14, 2003

sata cables are only for sata drives...and yours are not...for drive cables...just stick with a name brand such as antec and you'll be fine...the only other thing you have to make sure of is if the cables are rated for your devices (so ata 100 for you).

There is no smell better than fried silicon :evil:

RCPilot · Jul 14, 2003

Yea, I didn't read that part. My mistake. SATA cables are only for SATA HDD's.

I've never seen good rounded PATA cables for sale that are wroth anything. I'll stand by that.

Honey, what's that smell? Don't bother me now I'm working on my computer! OOPS!

pIII_Man · Jul 14, 2003

hmmm really...i have never bought them...what brands have you tried...just so i know to stay away. I bet antec makes some good ones but again no experience.

There is no smell better than fried silicon :evil:

Edited by pIII_Man on 07/13/03 10:35 PM.

coolsquirtle · Jul 14, 2003

Vantec have pretty good ones, have one in my comp and 3 in my dad's

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Skyrez · Jul 14, 2003

Well you mentioned SATA, these will be the standard eventually but as of now it isn't quite as fast as IDE133. Basically you would have to use a EIDE to SATA converter and these devices take some speed away. So go with EIDE cables. Vantec does make some good ones, but i have had good luck even with the cheap ones.

jihiggs · Jul 14, 2003

ata 133 is nothing. sata has the potential to be faster but it hasnt happend yet, maybe those 10k rpm drives

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randy66 · Jul 14, 2003

I've used cables sold by SVC with no problems , on 4 systems , there cheap (under $3 usd) but are good , been using for over 1 year + they look good

RCPilot · Jul 14, 2003

I've never used the Antec rounded cables, so I have on experience with them.

I'm sure there's some cheap cables that do work. I've just never had much luck with rounded cables, ever.

I read quite awhile ago how to make rounded cables out of PATA cables. So that's what I did & have never had a problem with them. I can't seem to find the link though.

Now I'm lazy & use only Antec cases & they have plenty of room to place the PATA cables behind the drive cages & they won't obstruct air flow at all. So that's the way I currently build them. It's been at least 2 years since I've made rounded cables out ot PATA cables. I just don't need them anymore, I guess.

Honey, what's that smell? Don't bother me now I'm working on my computer! OOPS!

smitbret · Jul 14, 2003

I'll 2nd the Vantec.
-Brett

TKS · Jul 14, 2003

I third the Vantecs...love em and no problems here...over a yr. here.

To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer.
Farmers' Almanac, 1978

TKS

Syndil · Jul 15, 2003

Actually ATA cables are flat for a darned good reason, especially Ultra-ATA cables with 80 elements. The extra 40 wires in an Ultra-ATA cable are ground wires, specifically spaced every-other-wire with the data cables in order to combat interference. If you destroy this arrangement, separate the wires, and bundle them into a tube, you completely defeat the purpose of the extra 40 wires. However, this is not always critical, especially with modern drives that are able to handle data corruption better than what the EIDE specification requires. If you want a really exhaustive explanation, check out <A HREF="http://www.dansdata.com/rcables.htm" target="_new">this article at Dan's Data</A>.

_________________________________________________
Armadillo[TcC] at Lanwar and MML

kinney · Jul 15, 2003

I use vantec rounded cables
vantec is a good choice for anything actually

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

chandanarahul · Jul 15, 2003

Why don't u try some cheap ones and if u see if the drives r doing bad switch back to IDE cables. I don't think it'll give u any trouble.

shadus · Jul 15, 2003

> Well you mentioned SATA, these will be the
> standard eventually but as of now it isn't
> quite as fast as IDE133.

Actually that is incorrect. ATA133 is really no faster than ATA100 because of drive limitations, much like SATA is no faster than PATA (other than in writes) because of drive limitations. However, a native SATA drive is marginally faster at writing information and reads at about the same speed as a PATA drive.

Shadus

DOOM · Jul 15, 2003

> ATA133 is really no faster than ATA100 because of drive limitations

What limitations would those be? If you're referring to spindle speed, then there's still an improvement in cache performance.

If an ATA100 drive with 8MB cache has a cache hit percentage of 30%, then upping the interface to 133MB/s will result in about a 25% improvement in overall data throughput. Even allowing for other devices on the PCI bus (NIC, modem, sound, etc), a very inefficient ATA133 drive controller, or a lower cache hit rate, there will still be a noticeable improvement in disk speed (at least 5%, I'd wager).

The problem is that such an increase in speed is not worth the corresponding increase in cost.

> much like SATA is no faster than PATA

I'm sorry, I don't understand how a 10,000rpm drive with 150MB/s interface is not faster than a 7200rpm drive with a 100MB/s interface. If you are getting results like these, I would suspect a poorly designed controller, or a poorly clustered drive.

> However, a native SATA drive ... reads at about the same speed as a PATA

So why do all the benchmarks pit SATA against SCSI?

You are saying there is no difference between fast drives and slow ones, and I am saying there is, but it may not be worth the cost.

-DOOM
__________

GeneticWeapon says: "Your days posting here have about come to an end... I promise you that by the time I'm done making my point to you, you wont want to be here anymore...you fuucking bitch."

Syndil · Jul 16, 2003

If you're looking for hard facts about drive performance, this site has anything you could possibly want:

<A HREF="http://www.storagereview.com/" target="_new">http://www.storagereview.com/</A>

I'd look up the performance numbers myself, but frankly, I'm not that interested.

_________________________________________________
Armadillo[TcC] at Lanwar and MML

pIII_Man · Jul 16, 2003

limitations...well lets just say that an ultra ata133 hard drive on a 66mb/s ide channel would have almost the exact performace the same hard drive on an ata133 interface.

Sata being no faster than ata...theoretocally sure sata wins however if drives cannot keep up than whats the point...again hard drives only have a 40mb/s sustained transfer rate.

Sata being compared to scsi...the only sata drive i have seen compared to scsi is the WD Raptor...and for good reason comparing a 7200 rpm drive to a 10k rpm drive is just not kosher.

There is no smell better than fried silicon :evil:

pIII_Man · Jul 16, 2003

syndil...possibly round cables have a better cable insulation than flat ones? But either way good point. I have never heard of problems w/ data corruption using round cables though.

There is no smell better than fried silicon :evil:

DOOM · Jul 16, 2003

My point is that since we've hit the spindle rate barrier at about 10,000, all that's left is to increase the buffered performance, which can actually have considerable impact on overall performance. Going from a 2M cache to an 8M cache gives a 15% boost in performance. I am reasoning a step further and saying that if you increase the efficiency of that cache, it will not have a negligible effect on the overall performance of the drive.

However, I think we would probably agree on the point that spending your money on SATA now is dubious, since newer technologies like solid state are just around the corner.

GeneticWeapon says: "Your days posting here have about come to an end... I promise you that by the time I'm done making my point to you, you wont want to be here anymore...you fuucking bitch."

Blessedman · Jul 16, 2003

I have never read so many made up stories in my life about rounded cables. I have done benchmarking on proper length 80 element rounded cables and have found a 2% diffrence in performance. The amount of airflow i gain inside my case by not having huge flat ribbons through-out my case is justification enough to use them.

Syndil · Jul 16, 2003

I have never read so many made up stories in my life about rounded cables. I have done benchmarking on proper length 80 element rounded cables and have found a 2% diffrence in performance.

Like I said...

this is not always critical, especially with modern drives that are able to handle data corruption better than what the EIDE specification requires.

And you'd better research your material before you start throwing around insults like a troll. I made nothing up. If you want to peruse the official ANSI/INCITS specs for the latest version of IDE, ATA/ATAPI6, you can pony up $18 and download the PDF from <A HREF="http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=932242" target="_new">http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=932242</A>. The document you want is "ANSI/INCITS 361-2002: Information technology - AT Attachment with Packet Interface - 6 (ATA/ATAPI-6)".

Or, you can read this document, which is a proposed revision of the ATA/ATAPI6 standard:

<A HREF="http://www.t13.org/docs2002/d1410r3b.pdf" target="_new">http://www.t13.org/docs2002/d1410r3b.pdf</A>

It includes all the specs of the original standard, along with some minor revisions. The cable specification was not changed. See Figure A.5 and Table A.6 on page 402 for the required layout of an 80 conductor cable for use in an UltraDMA > 2 configuration (configurations requiring an 80 pin cable as opposed to a 40 conductor cable are disclosed on page 14, table 4.2.2.2). The standard is so strict that it even specifies the distance between the conductors to be 0.635 mm +/- 0.0406 mm. These people don't fool around - and I know what the hell I'm talking about.

_________________________________________________
Armadillo[TcC] at Lanwar and MML

round ca bles for new computer

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