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Warning MSI 865PE Neo 2 and Corsair Memory

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July 28, 2003 5:26:18 PM

A couple of months ago I bought the FIS2R motherboard, Corsair LL Twinx memory, Intel 2.8 / 800FSB, and Radeon 9800 Pro. When I put the computer together with version 1.0 release BIOS I had no problem and the computer worked fine as I began to load Wnidows etc. I then decided to upgrade the BIOS to 1.2 which was then available using the MSI live update XP program. The computer locked during the update but fortunately the program creates a rescue floppy during the process. I rebooted with the rescue floppy and the 1.2 BIOS seemed to load without problem. Re started the computer, and nothing, no screen, no keyboard, no boot, nothing. I assumed something had gone wrong during the BIOS update and they were corrupted. MSI do offer a service (cost 15 Euro plus postage both ways) to re load the BIOS correctly, so I sent of the board and received it back within a few days. I put everything together with the D-bracket (diagnostic device) and tried to start the computer. Nothing, no boot screen etc.and the D- Bracket indicated a memory problem. Furious, I contacted MSI again and I agreed to take the board in personaly to their service center in Frankfurt which is 160 Km or 100 miles from where I live. They put the board in a test rig, with their 2.6 processor and memory and the board booted fine. Fortunately I had also brought my Corsair memory with, and so we tried this as well. To my amazement the board booted fine! So went home set up the system again and tried to start the system, nothing, no boot etc.
Desperate I tried talking to MSI again and they have raised all sorts of possible issues, from faulty processor, graphics card, power supply etc.
To cut a long story and many weeks of frustration short, I eventually discovered that MSI probably used a processor with a 533 FSB in the test. In this configuration the 1.2 BIOS work with the corsair memory, however when you put in an 800 FSB processor it does not! Had to buy another memory module to find this out.
So now after seeing Tom's review where he used BIOS 1.3B3 and Corsair Twinx LL memory (same as mine), I decided to upgrade my BIOS from 1.2 to 1.3 so I could use my expensive Corsair memory. Wary of the live update program I did this via a DOS boot disk. Again something has gone wrong, and now my computer won't boot again but this time gives Processor Initialisazion error. No way to use a recovery disk, so I have just had to send my board back to MSI again. All in all I have spent at least the cost of the motherboard again in trying to get the systen running after the first BIOS update. Needless to say I don't give the MSI board full marks at all as I have only had my computer work 6 hours in two months. I have built a number of computers myself with various niggling problems, but these I could always solve myself, and I am certainly no stranger to what should be straightforward BIOS updates. This is an absolute nightmare, and I am still not covinced the system will work when I get the board back again, and cerainly I dare not try another BIOS update.
Anyone else had problems like this with this mobo?
Simleep
July 29, 2003 4:00:25 AM

I have an MSI NEO FIS2R with corsair ll twinx memory (1 gig) and i have no problems. I have an 800 mhz fsb, along with a 9700 pro ati radeon card. But no problems. Computer is running perfectly.
July 29, 2003 5:48:41 PM

I will again repost what has been known all along:

THE I865 AND I875 CHIPSETS HAVE INTERMITANT STABILITY ISSUES WITH EXTREME LOW LATENCY CHIPS BOTH BOARD MANUFACTURERS AND CORSAIR HAVE SAID: "DO NOT USE THE LL AND LLPT DESIGNATED RAM WITH THE I865 AND I875 CHIPSETS, USE C2 DESIGNATED RAM INSTEAD."

The later releases of the corsair chips correct the problem by moving the timings up to 2-3-2-6-T1 rather than 2-2-2-5-T1 that is the standard on the LL chips. It doesn't always happen but it is frequent enough to make it an issue.

Do you guys even read the forums?

Shadus
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July 29, 2003 9:04:50 PM

Don't be so hard I play alot of Golf which takes alot of time. I just joined the forum but typically only visit when I have a problem, so this is new to me. Is their anything I can do about this or do I just have to buy new memory ($$$). How can I check which version of the memory I have?

Simleep
July 29, 2003 9:10:31 PM

Examining my memory chips, they have 2226T1. Good or Bad?
Simleep
July 29, 2003 9:12:25 PM

set to 2 3 2 6 1t

3 386DX-25's...12 volts...glue and some ln2 and a wicked amount of overclocking and you get a willamantee minus 36 pins, 33.75 million transistors and a couple hundred mhz... :cool:
July 29, 2003 9:32:56 PM

I'll be building a system on that motherboard in a couple of days with geil pc3200 gl5123200B (value), 2 sticks of 512 each. I'll let you know how it goes. I remember reading that bit about the corsair memory, but don't remember seeing anything about a geil issue. Best of luck.
July 30, 2003 11:43:47 AM

Its a chipset issue with the timings not the brand. The corsair LL ram is just below the recommended timings, if the geil is also below it may have the same results (some i865/i875 boards handle it fine, some don't.)

I would guess you are pretty safe with value ram, it's generally the crap that doesn't meet the more stringent standards of the higher grade ram.

Shadus
July 30, 2003 1:50:38 PM

kingston is the best ram for THIS board. people are having a problem flashing their bios on this board and ending up with a dead board. On the ealier bios versions I mean. The newest one seems to be fine. The problem is, if you try to update, it may kill your board. In my opinion, that board should be avoided for that very reason, unless you know your not getting the first bios version with your new board.It's possible that you'll get suck with a quirky bios. I returned mine and got the IC7-G.
July 30, 2003 7:28:06 PM

Strange you should say that, but on both occaisions when I flashed the BIOS I did end up with a dead board, despite getting the message that the BIOS update had succeded and to re-start the computer. Very unhappy at the moment but I think my board should arrive tomorrow. I will try the memory settings of 2326 and post what happens.
Thanks to everyone who has helped so far. Now I know what the problems probably are, I am less likely to take a hammer to the components!
Simleep
July 31, 2003 4:49:07 PM

Phoned MSI today to find out why my mobo hadn't been returned yet. Seems they are experiencing problems loading the BIOS themselves. They were still working on it but may send me a new mobo if they can't get it working. Hope it will still arrive this weekend.
a b V Motherboard
a b } Memory
August 1, 2003 4:50:06 AM

Actually it's a memory problem :smile: . These chipsets just push the memory a little harder than other chipsets.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
August 1, 2003 4:53:25 AM

indeed i beleive that originally intel was going to look towards a diffrent ram technology for the 800mhz fsb cpus...

3 386DX-25's...12 volts...glue some ln2 and a wicked amount of overclocking and you get a willamantee minus 36 pins, 33.75 million transistors and a couple hundred mhz... :cool:
a b V Motherboard
a b } Memory
August 1, 2003 5:55:59 AM

Yes, they were going to use DDRII-400, which runs at 100MHz I believe.

They wrote quite a lengthy white paper on the subject, showing what improvements had to be made to modules for the new standard. Of course it's still an open standard, Intel doesn't want to be in the business of licencing memory technology (bitter aftertaste of Rambus?), but instead simply wants the fastest, most stable PC's, in order to beat AMD. Probably half of the stuff in the white papers was already on the table at Jedec.

I read an article a while back that showed the weaknesses of DDR and how DDRII would fix them, and it refered to Intel's guidelines. Intel felt that DDR400 would be impossible to produce in adequate quantities at the highest settings, and so far they've been right.

I think their next chipsets will support DDRII 400 and DDRII 533 exclusively.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
August 1, 2003 7:32:20 AM

but i beleive an issue with ddr II is it runs hotter than standard ddr...or at least that is the case in graphics cards using ddr II...

I think though that it is best for intel that they went with ddr...it is cheeper and thus they probably got more buyers...and how many end useres actually relise ddr's shortcommings...

3 386DX-25's...12 volts...glue some ln2 and a wicked amount of overclocking and you get a willamantee minus 36 pins, 33.75 million transistors and a couple hundred mhz... :cool:
a b V Motherboard
a b } Memory
August 1, 2003 11:20:59 PM

Ah, well, DDRII probably won't have those types of heat problems at such low speeds as "400" and "533".

I believe it's actually more expensive to make, but since you can get the same performance from lower clock rate chips, the cheaper chips more than make up for the expensive parts that connect them.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
August 5, 2003 8:25:02 AM

Well the end of the story I hope. I received what looks like a new mobo back from MSI yesterday, but loaded with the 1.3 BIOS. Got the board up and running with some generic ram, and then set the memory timings to 2326T1. Plugged in the first bank of corsair ram and re-booted. No problem. Plugged in the second bank and still everything seems to go without problem. CPU seems to be running very hot, though this could be the extraordinary temps. we are having in Germany at the moment. At last a computer that works, I am happy.
!