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Adobe Responds to Apple, is Fine With Breakup

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May 3, 2010 2:49:43 PM

Great... make yourself incompatible with something so universal that every browser should just come with it installed!

Way to back yourself into a corner, Apple!
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May 3, 2010 2:53:17 PM

*sigh*

Does Steve not realize that flash support is probably the biggest downfall of the iphone?

I do enough w\ my iphone but i'd use it alot more if I had flash.
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May 3, 2010 2:53:59 PM

I'm looking forward to flash on my Droid. Even though Adobe wouldn't limit their market, it would be interesting if Adobe discontinued all products for OS X also.
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May 3, 2010 2:56:48 PM

I am waiting for Adobe to pull their entire CS suite from Apple. Now that would be funny :p 
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May 3, 2010 2:58:55 PM

I place the blame squarely on Adobe. It is entirely their fault that flash lagged and was unmaintained for so very long. Had they stayed on top if it and kept it updated, slim, and stable, this whole thing would be a non-issue.
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May 3, 2010 3:00:57 PM

Amazing, in the past weren't Apple & Adobe close partners? I always heard that Apple were the computers built for artistic programs like Photoshop and such.
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May 3, 2010 3:01:33 PM

I commend Adobe for at least attempting to make Apples latest products a little better experience for users.

But that goes to show you how far Steve Jobs has his head shoved up his a$$...
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May 3, 2010 3:02:12 PM

Eh, no huge loss.

I'm excited for the day that flash dies, mostly because it's hugely inefficient, is reliant of proprietary software, and needs a third party application installed on your system to run. HTML 5 and SVG are the future.

I'm happy Apple made the decision, however we all know it wasn't well intention. But it still may sway public opinion, so yay.
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Anonymous
May 3, 2010 3:06:21 PM

@ Nakal

Adode already said they were not going todo this.

After all the can't afford to cut off 40 % + of their customer base
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May 3, 2010 3:16:47 PM

Adobe should stop making a MAC version of Photoshop. That would get Apple's attention real quick!
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May 3, 2010 3:17:14 PM

Flash is a battery hog, doesn't support x64, and has been known to be so awful that even a dual core system will be unable to display flash without being choppy as the ocean in a hurricane.

I wish Flash would either die or become lean and mean, like Silverlight or HTML5... In my experience using both (SL in Netflix, HTML5 in YouTube) both technologies are FAR superior and more well suited to the internet platform.
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May 3, 2010 3:17:42 PM

Apple better show Adobe some respect. Photoshop and many of Adobes other software are greatly responsible for their Mac sales. Putting all this negative press against Adobe is a bad move.
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May 3, 2010 3:26:49 PM

I'll believe it when I see it. Flash was supposed to be "released" months ago for the Pre, but it's been pushed back again and again.
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May 3, 2010 3:43:41 PM

RDS@ NakalAdode already said they were not going todo this.After all the can't afford to cut off 40 % + of their customer base


Maybe so. It depends on how badly they see themselves threatened by the rift. If Adobe feels threatened enough in other markets they may pull the plug on OSX support. They would lose some business but quickly pick it up again as developers switch to linux or windows based machines for their work. After all, the main difference between an Imac and a regular PC for photoshop is the Imacs excellent monitor. Of course, that wouldn't hurt Mac sales, as the portables don't benefit from the same screen tech as the iMac.
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May 3, 2010 3:44:18 PM

I hope people turn away from the Iphone, there are better phones out there ...personally I'm looking forward to the HTC EVO 4G.
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May 3, 2010 3:44:42 PM

stratplayaAdobe should stop making a MAC version of Photoshop. That would get Apple's attention real quick!

That will get Apple's attention real quick. However, I think it'll do Adobe more harm since Mac users accounts for just over half of their Photoshop sales. Apple, meanwhile will just continue to charge forward with their iPad, iPhone, iPod and iTunes.

And while Jobs may be right about Flash (very hard for me to admit I agree with him), and the world may one day move towards HTML5. But the fact remains that we're not there YET. Someday, maybe, but not yet.

On top of that, what is so bad about Apple working with Adobe to bring down power consumption and help fix their bugs with Flash? And I still fail to see what was so bad about their Flash CS5 iPhone app compiler.
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May 3, 2010 3:46:05 PM

Flash is crap. It has been the "security leak" as for my wife and kids computers getting "flash" viruses. It is responsible for the most intrusive "wiggly", "take over your screen" advertisements. I will be glad when this product just dies!
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May 3, 2010 3:47:59 PM

As for the iPhone, I hope to see another competitor take the reigns for a while (At least at the moment my contract with ATT ends :) 
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May 3, 2010 3:52:21 PM

As stated earlier by others, I do enjoy my iphone and use it regularly but not providing Flash support realy bites. I think apple is overstepping their bounds with this one and instead of listening to us the consumer they are now deciding what is best for us. After my 2g phone moves on to greener pastures I will most likely be getting a Android instead. Shame, I really enjoyed the innovation that the Iphone brought with it and was holding out for flash support but this is it for me. It may not be the same for everybody but considering most other smartphones run it and utilize it, it would be only logical for apple to follow suit.
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May 3, 2010 4:09:47 PM

SimonettiMy thoughts exactly as I was reading the article. Apple owes Adobe big time, because Apples Creative Suite has ALWAYS pushed Apple sales for professionals, since the early days of Adobe Photoshop.As I've said before, Apple is on a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot streak for the past few weeks.

So Adobe can buy any new technology firm (Macromedia) and slump on the update of their products to work with mobile devices (Adobe cancelled the mobile version of Flash that Macromedia was working on years ago) and x64 browsers - and Apple should just jump on board with anything they do? Not having Flash on the iPhone really shouldn't be a big deal to anyone since it's not a common feature on any smartphone out there, let alone iPhone, but people have been complaining for 3 years. Most of the complainers do not own iPhones and probably never will, they just use it as an arguing point in their anti-Apple crusade. I'm not sure Apple would want to be the beta tester for Flash on the iPhone even if it were available over the past few years. Adobe dropped the ball...Apple hasn't done anything but point that out.

As far as their compiler goes, I'm not really sure I care as an end user what is used to develop apps. I definitely prefer software designed specifically for the platform it's being used on, though. As an app developer, I still don't care since I don't use their stuff.
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May 3, 2010 4:12:48 PM

xpaxThe problem is that Apple has no desire to work with Adobe. The real reasons behind keeping Flash off the iPhone/iWhatever is vendor lock-in. Apple wants to maintain iron-fisted control over the ecosystem, and they want to inhibit developers from producing anything cross-platform. That would allow the same app to be available for Android easily.


This pretty much says it all.
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May 3, 2010 4:20:24 PM

It's kind of funny how everyone knows Flash sucks, but once Apple goes against it, they get support.

Flash blows. Forget who's for it or against it. It's time is up, and it's going away.

It's also pathetic how easily people can be manipulated into getting wired up. Just mention Apple. It's so pathetically human to need someone to hate, and all the base reactions attest to that. All Tom's has to do is put an Apple article in, spin it a bit to make Apple seem even worse, and then watch all the numbskulls go after it like carp after a piece of corn on a hook.

Apple didn't make you buy anything, and haven't ruined your lives. They aren't worthy of being hated. They don't appeal to me in the least, but i like that they are around, and giving people a choice, albeit a choice I don't fully understand. Don't get me wrong, when I hear someone boast they have an Apple, I almost laugh and feel embarrassed for them. They think they're saying they're so cool and trendy, and wealthy enough to own an Apple. They're really saying they don't know anything about computers and want to seem cool.

But, I don't hate Apple for that. They make a lot of money for their shareholders. I'm not crazy about their users though. I can't stand the pretentiousness.
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May 3, 2010 4:21:53 PM

kelldoreI think apple is overstepping their bounds with this one and instead of listening to us the consumer they are now deciding what is best for us.


Say, now, that is some dangerous thinking, kelldore. Steve knows best, just breathe a sigh of relief, and know that you don't have to worry about what you may or may not be missing. /sarcasm
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May 3, 2010 4:26:25 PM

As we have seen in the past, the more you embrace open standards the more you prosper. It seemed for a while that Apple was understanding this and was actually taking a bigger bite of the apple (hehe). Though with iTunes they think they can corner all markets with a closed approach, unfortunately for them it is not always the case. If you create hardware that is ahead of it's time (ipod, iphone) then yes you can close off the software side of things and control every portion of it (like consoles can). What Steve has ALWAYS failed to see is that the mac is just a PC (personal computer). Unless they can continue to innovate the hardware market with fresh Ideas, they are going to be right back in the same boat they were in back in the 80's...
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May 3, 2010 4:27:30 PM

1 year later. Everything will be HTML5. Microsoft is hopping on the HTML5 bandwagon as well. Google owns Youtube and Youtube will also be HTML5. Apple and any other company not using Adobe will only take a temporary hit. I know a lot of web designers and most of them say way more positive things about HTML5 over Flash. As a user, I've had no problems with flash, I love it. But I guess web designers / programmers see it differently than the users. Thumb me down, but It's so many articles out there about HTML5 over Adobe that hasn't been posted on Toms yet.
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May 3, 2010 4:31:34 PM

xpaxThe problem is that Apple has no desire to work with Adobe. The real reasons behind keeping Flash off the iPhone/iWhatever is vendor lock-in. Apple wants to maintain iron-fisted control over the ecosystem, and they want to inhibit developers from producing anything cross-platform. That would allow the same app to be available for Android easily.


Can Tom's just post this on the main page? Just right under the Tom's Hardware logo?

I honestly don't care if Apple wants to support Flash or not...just don't blow smoke, and tell me the truth. Apple does not want to share, fair enough, it is capitalism at its finest. Just admit it Steve...
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May 3, 2010 4:31:52 PM

Instead of working with Adobe to list criteria for flash to run on the iPhone they have outright said "NO". 1984 is now.
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May 3, 2010 4:36:19 PM

Adobe won't pull any of their design products from Apple. They're a clever company (for the most part) Flash on mobile devices is something very different to a design computer. Adobe still make a large sum of money with design companies who use Mac and adobe products.

Apple is foolishly limiting their mobile devices by excluding flash, if HTML5 does take the crown then fine but currently, even though Adobe was a little sleepy with their Flash development, it's still in use rather extensively throughout the web.

Sadly it's the end-users which are getting hurt...again! A poor move on Apple's part but I suppose they have their reasons.
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May 3, 2010 4:37:27 PM

Nothing is more frustrating than navigating to a website and seeing the ? icon on my iPhone.

Many businesses/sites don't even support a non-flash version of their site anymore, since flash support is basically expected to be part of the general user's browsing capabilities.
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May 3, 2010 4:39:33 PM

I'm still going with the notion that Adobe became way too comfortable in its position with their flash player. They have shown very little progress in improving it, and it remains as a horribly inefficient load on the CPU (major hurt on netbooks). There is a movement weather it is being recognized yet or not, but HTML5 appears to be coming soon in full force. We now have two major hardware/software companies backing the new standard in MS and Apple, then we have a now majority or browser makers on board expressing interest and eventual adoption, and then it hurts when YouTube and their parent company Google have expressed interest in moving from the Flash standard. Time will tell if Flash is all but done or if Adobe can improve enough on its own behalf to sway the tide back over to them.
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Anonymous
May 3, 2010 4:47:18 PM

"" After all, the main difference between an Imac and a regular PC for photoshop is the Imacs excellent monitor.""

Funny how people stand by this argument and the screens themselves have never been made by apple now its Lg for the longest time it was sony, Im always amused at this argument (it gets tossed around alot!) as one of the reasons for apples superiority in the graphics market when all they did was ask for a pretty case around the screen of a monitor you can buy and use on any system and probably far cheaper too
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May 3, 2010 5:09:49 PM

The problem Flash is faster than HTML5, just try with youtube. Open the task management you will see the Flash requires less CPU than HTML5 in the same video.
http://www.youtube.com/html5

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Anonymous
May 3, 2010 5:21:36 PM

Jobs is a stupid eunuch. Flash is just necessary these days. Internet without flash is like a sex without the orgasm; you get the fun but without the pleasure.
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May 3, 2010 5:33:52 PM

I can just hope that Adobe whithers up and dies soon, rather than bring their garbage to more platforms. I've had it with cleaning up systems from malware that uses flash and pdf vulnerabilities to install.

I now consider Adobe a willing enabler of fake antivirus programs.
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May 3, 2010 5:43:22 PM

If Apple dosen't like Flash - fine !! But give the people that buy apple products the option to install it if they so chose!!! I am getting just about sick and tired of Apple dictating what and what should not be on their machines. I watched Apple take Logic away from PC users... now LaLa and shutting it down now this BS about flash!

I personally dont care what platform anyone uses. But (in risk of repeating myself) I or anyone else should be able to choose what software, what plug in, what ever how ever a consumer wants... you want world domination Apple ? Allow clone makers to make apple hardware that runs Windwos, Linux and MacOS all on the same machine! make a smartphone that will allow the use of Droid, Moblin, WinCE, Win7, Chrome ,.....infact I challenge ANY PC manufacture to do what I just suggest and put a middle finger to Apple EULA !!! I am getting sick and tired of these NutJobs!
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May 3, 2010 5:47:34 PM

Actually from a Graphic Designers stand point, flash is FAR easier (from a designers stand point!). If you don't have a computer science degree, Silver Light and HTML 5 aren't what all the new graduates have been trained in, in an art world. We just graduated learning flash and build our portfoilos in it. I mean yes, many knew both(Graphic Design AND Web Design) but I find it to be quite the opposite of the standard degree . Personally i'm kinda of shiting a brick at the idea of having a soon to be useless degree if I dont pick up silver light / java asap.

No many people get a degree in both Art (the design of the page), and computer science(programming / "web design").

Flash is the one breathe of fresh air to a computer art major who can't make a fully functional site all with in one suite.

As a PC user, and a avid fan of Flash, I wish they would find ways to work together.

(Although I will say Adobes lack of x64 support as been a pain in our asses for YEARS)

Maybe one day their get smart and find more programs that marry Art and CS together.
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May 3, 2010 5:48:31 PM

No one commented on reasons, why Apple might not want Flash on their devices. Look at Kongregate.com. Thousands of flash games for free. Why would you ever buy an app (the appstore really is the money maker long term), if you can get most of the functionality for free?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but from a business POV, I can understand the rationale.
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May 3, 2010 5:54:14 PM

thrasherbill"" After all, the main difference between an Imac and a regular PC for photoshop is the Imacs excellent monitor.""Funny how people stand by this argument and the screens themselves have never been made by apple now its Lg for the longest time it was sony, Im always amused at this argument (it gets tossed around alot!) as one of the reasons for apples superiority in the graphics market when all they did was ask for a pretty case around the screen of a monitor you can buy and use on any system and probably far cheaper too

I generally giggle to myself when people talk about the great Apple IPS displays being the second coming. There are FAR better IPS displays out there than Apple's with much faster response times and better color accuracy. Apple displays are only a middle of the road quality S-IPS (sometimes they're H-IPS) screen. Of course, you really have to know what you're doing to buy the right thing or you'll end up with a crappy IPS, they're definitely not all created equal (even though most of them are created by LG/Phillips). For graphics work, IPS are pretty much the way to go as their color accuracy from off-center viewing is the best (and you can usually touch them without distorting the image). However, for gaming or movies (where you're not doing much off-center viewing), I generally recommend VA screens, as they're cheaper, have better viewing angles and contrast than TN (usually mid to high 170s viewing angles and occasionally have better blacks than cheaper IPSes), and you can buy ones with fast response times for much less than a fast response time S-IPS of equal size. You can get a decent S-M/PVA monitor for half to a third the price of a high quality, fast response time S-IPS.
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May 3, 2010 6:01:26 PM

ROFL you go to the Microsoft sides with Apple on HTML5, but when this article gets posted, all the Apple haters....well hate more. Kids kids kids....when will you grow up!
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May 3, 2010 6:24:18 PM

It's simple. If you want or need Flash don't buy an iPod Touch, iPhone or iPad. See any gangs of Apple Hoodies hanging around street corners waiting to stuff Apple hand-helds into your pockets? No. Didn't think so.
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May 3, 2010 6:34:45 PM

This is exactly what is wrong with Adobe.

Instead of saying they would endeavour to win their (Apple's) business by addressing their concerns - a vector for viruses and reliability issues, something we should all be concerned about - they responded as they have to everyone in the past 20 years, by telling them to eff off.

I couldnt care less it was Steve Jobs/Apple who made the original statement - its true and it affects everyone. Adobe's PDF reader is not only the single largest vector for virus infections on PC's, its the largest, surpassing the 50% mark as the vector for virus infections overall... Adobe is bad news. When hackers speak of vectors to get their viruses on PC's, Adobe is always mentioned in the same breath as Microsoft and Apple... Wake up people.

Os





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May 3, 2010 6:46:32 PM

NakalI am waiting for Adobe to pull their entire CS suite from Apple. Now that would be funny

Adobe has already stated that they don't use their customers to battle other companies...unlike some other company starting with A.
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Anonymous
May 3, 2010 7:24:51 PM

I witnessed multiple flash apps demoed live at an adobe CS5 launch event last Thursday. The hardware used included a Nexus one and a Motorola Droid. Speed and performance looked fine. Adobe looked to have all the hand gestures licked also.

"In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices", is Mr Jobs implying the iPhone is not up to running flash? Roll on June.
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May 3, 2010 7:26:58 PM

it's good to remember that Microsoft also jumped on Apple's wagon so quickly, Microsoft+Apple against Flash: it doesn't make U sense?
There should be something much better to present as instead for Adobe Flash!
They are clever enough not just to tell something raise other aggression (I mean Steve)
Lets follow the movements, Time is the best storyteller.
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May 3, 2010 7:31:07 PM

everyone states flash has poor performance... but have they actually fired up html5 or svg?? it's horrid... and then you have all the codec and browser compatibility issues... it'll be 5-10 years before they take off as a viable option... flash is nowhere near perfect, but it's still fairly impressive in it's animation and video capabilities... crysis has speed issues on most machines, so does that mean we should bash it and all switch to games written in javascript... O_o
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May 3, 2010 7:54:07 PM

Flash is a good example of what tends to happen to any product when it achieves monopoly. Flash has been for some time a must-have product, which made Adobe less inclined to investing in it's development. Afterall, if anyone who wants to see videos need your product, why the hell spend money making it better? They'll use it anyway.
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May 3, 2010 8:01:32 PM

such a stupid move on apple...even tough flash is buggy..wtf
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May 3, 2010 8:40:21 PM

There is an easy way to get onto Apple mobile products. Stop making Flash for the Mac platform, period. If you think flash is bad... try 3rd party flash emulators. Mac people will go bats*** insane without the ability to view 1/3 of the internet's videos in a week.
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May 3, 2010 9:35:42 PM

Apple is so stupid, I hate that company.
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!