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Phones with chips?

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Anonymous
July 8, 2004 2:24:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung (? Or
Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a chip
smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just sitting
in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker removed
the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the V300. It
works there.

Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?

Any pros and cons?

More about : phones chips

Anonymous
July 8, 2004 2:24:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:24:11 GMT, "C C" <someone@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung (? Or
>Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a chip
>smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just sitting
>in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker removed
>the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the V300. It
>works there.

It's a SIM (Subscriber Identity Module) card, and it's used on GSM
networks. T-Mobile, Cingular, AT&T, and even Nextel.

>Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?

Is that 'why doesn't?' GSM is a newer technology, at least to the USA.
Hence GSM networks don't have the coverage that Verizon's CDMA network
has.

>Any pros and cons?

Sure.. The pro is your data is stored on a card - you change phones,
simply swap the SIM card. No real cons, except the network quality.

--
To reply, remove TheObvious from my e-mail address.
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 2:29:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I strongly dissagree with this statement. ATT GSM is far better than
Verizon CDMA coverage in San Diego. I recieve many more dropped calls since
I switched from ATT GSM to Verizon.

"Evan Platt" <evan@TheObvious.espphotography.com> wrote in message
news:8ucpe0duo33t922dvj9a34m2b5sf1cinbu@4ax.com...
> Sure.. The pro is your data is stored on a card - you change phones,
> simply swap the SIM card. No real cons, except the network quality.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 2:39:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:24:11 GMT, C C wrote:

> My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung (? Or
> Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a chip
> smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just sitting
> in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker removed
> the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the V300. It
> works there.
>
> Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?
>
> Any pros and cons?

T-Mobile uses GSM technology, Verizon uses CDMA. They are not compatible,
and the card option is not available for CDMA in North America.
July 8, 2004 4:46:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

This sounds a little far-fetched. Moving a chip from a Samsung to a
Motorola and it worked fine with no modifications? Am I being naive?

Larry E.

C C wrote:
> My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung (? Or
> Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a chip
> smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just sitting
> in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker removed
> the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the V300. It
> works there.
>
> Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?
>
> Any pros and cons?
>
>
>
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 4:46:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Larry <Larry@nospam.net> wrote:
> This sounds a little far-fetched. Moving a chip from a Samsung to a
> Motorola and it worked fine with no modifications? Am I being naive?

Yes. GSM's Subscriber Identification Module is a standard part of the
protocol and all GSM phones or hybrids (like my dad's Nextel Motorola I-90,
which runs Nextel's iDEN protocol as well as GSM) require SIM cards (the
"chips" in question) to store subscriber info.

CDMA doesn't use SIMs at this time.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 5:18:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Halogen8 <lagreca@googles.email.service.com> wrote:
> I strongly dissagree with this statement. ATT GSM is far better than
> Verizon CDMA coverage in San Diego. I recieve many more dropped calls since
> I switched from ATT GSM to Verizon.

ATT GSM is far better than Verizon but you have many MORE dropped calls on
ATT? I think you made a typo or two...

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 5:22:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Yes, it is true.

Earlier today, I learned that my co-worker's friend, bought a phone from
e-bay to replace the V300 that my co-worker is using right now.

This is cool. When you want to change your phone because of damage, or you
just want a new toy to use, just buy the phone and you don't have to go to
your carrier and have the esn transferred to the new phone, or I guess you
can logon to VZW's website and do it yourself there.

This is what we call plug & play on mobile phones!

VZW doesn't even have bluetooth yet.

"Larry" <Larry@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:zP0Hc.76528$kz.15213601@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> This sounds a little far-fetched. Moving a chip from a Samsung to a
> Motorola and it worked fine with no modifications? Am I being naive?
>
> Larry E.
>
> C C wrote:
> > My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung (?
Or
> > Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a
chip
> > smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just
sitting
> > in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker
removed
> > the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the V300.
It
> > works there.
> >
> > Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?
> >
> > Any pros and cons?
> >
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 5:22:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of the SIM chip, however there seems to
be one common misconception about it. While it will transfer your phone
number to any phone you plug it into, sales reps also like to tell you it
will also transfer your phonebook as well. This is not entirely correct.

SIM's were designed a long time ago, and therefore the standard suffers a
bit when it comes to the data it can store. Newer phones will allow you to
store quite a bit of information about a contact. The information includes
multiple phone numbers per contact, email address, home address, etc. SIM
cards on the other hand were only designed to hold a name (only a certain
number of characters long) and one phone number (only a certain number of
numbers long).

So while you can copy your more advanced phone book to your sim card, it
jumbles the data when storing it. Truncating names to the set length the
SIM card was designed to have and only storing one number per name.

This can make some of the data in your phonebook entirely useless. An
example would be if you have a contact name Joe Blow with a cell number of
123-123-1234, home phone of 789-789-7894, work number of 456-456-4561, and
email address of joeblow@hotmail.com. When you transfer this users info to
the Sim card it come accross with a trunctated name, and looses info such as
whether a number was cell, work, or home. It will come across as Joe B
123-123-1234, Joe B2 789-789-7894, Joe B3 456-456-4561. The email address
is totally lost, as the SIM has no way of storing this information.

This can be particularly bad if you have multiple users with similar first
names, and it truncates their full name to only be part of their first name.
So now you have a bunch of first names and numbers, with no way to
differentiate whether a number was a work number, cell, or home number, or
even worse, which Joe you saved.

My example is a little extreme, as it will let you store more than 5 letters
for a name in the SIM, but trust me, I've had this happen before, and it
made all of my info useless. Its not nearly as cool as the sales reps would
have you think, or as could as it could be today if they would just come up
with a standard and implement it in newer SIM cards and phones.

Disclaimer: I am writing this as a past GSM user who now has Verizon and
does not like CDMA at all. I will switch back to GSM for sure once my
contract is up.

"C C" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7l1Hc.3451$X84.446@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> Yes, it is true.
>
> Earlier today, I learned that my co-worker's friend, bought a phone from
> e-bay to replace the V300 that my co-worker is using right now.
>
> This is cool. When you want to change your phone because of damage, or
you
> just want a new toy to use, just buy the phone and you don't have to go to
> your carrier and have the esn transferred to the new phone, or I guess you
> can logon to VZW's website and do it yourself there.
>
> This is what we call plug & play on mobile phones!
>
> VZW doesn't even have bluetooth yet.
>
> "Larry" <Larry@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:zP0Hc.76528$kz.15213601@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> > This sounds a little far-fetched. Moving a chip from a Samsung to a
> > Motorola and it worked fine with no modifications? Am I being naive?
> >
> > Larry E.
> >
> > C C wrote:
> > > My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung
(?
> Or
> > > Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a
> chip
> > > smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just
> sitting
> > > in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker
> removed
> > > the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the
V300.
> It
> > > works there.
> > >
> > > Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?
> > >
> > > Any pros and cons?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
July 8, 2004 10:35:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:24:11 GMT, "C C" <someone@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung (? Or
>Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a chip
>smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just sitting
>in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker removed
>the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the V300. It
>works there.
>
>Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?

The smart chip is called a SIM (subscriber identity module) and is
part of the GSM specification. All subscriber information is stored
on the smart chip so you can just remove the card from one device
(phone or PDA phone) put it in another device and your phone service
has been changed. No need to reprogram the phone.

CDMA (which Verizon, Sprint PCS and some others use) in its
implementation in North America does not use removable card technology
though it is in use in some Asian implementations. The card is called
a R-UIM (Removable User Identity Module)
<http://www.cdmatech.com/solutions/products/r-uim.jsp&gt; and does
basically the same thing as a SIM and is a similarly sized smart card.
I'm not sure why the North American CDMA operators haven't adopted
this except perhaps to lock in their customers. Even Nextel uses a
smart card in their recent handsets now and you are no longer required
to program a handset to transfer to different equipment.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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July 8, 2004 10:38:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 00:46:23 GMT, Larry <Larry@nospam.net> wrote:

>This sounds a little far-fetched. Moving a chip from a Samsung to a
>Motorola and it worked fine with no modifications? Am I being naive?

Happens every day in GSM technology. It doesn't matter whether it's
Samsung, Motorola, LG, Nokia, Palm, Blackberry, etc. As long as the
device is either from your operator or the device is unlocked it will
work in any compatible device.

Don't want to lug around a PDA phone this weekend and want to use it
just as a phone? Simple, just remove the SIM smart card from one
device and put it in another. Just power it up and your service is
transferred to the other device.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
remove NONO from .NONOcom to reply
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 11:13:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <8ucpe0duo33t922dvj9a34m2b5sf1cinbu@4ax.com>,
Evan Platt <evan@TheObvious.espphotography.com> wrote:
>It's a SIM (Subscriber Identity Module) card, and it's used on GSM
>networks. T-Mobile, Cingular, AT&T, and even Nextel.

Some Nextel phones have support for roaming on overseas GSM service. The
SIM is used for that functionality. It is not used for their native iDEN
service in the US, and it cannot access GSM service in the US/Canada.
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 12:14:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

The other nice thing about SIMs is that you can store your phone book on
it and transfer that from photo to phone as well. There are CDMA phones that
use this sort of technology, just not here in the US.


--
Thomas M. Goethe

"C C" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7l1Hc.3451$X84.446@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> Yes, it is true.
>
> Earlier today, I learned that my co-worker's friend, bought a phone from
> e-bay to replace the V300 that my co-worker is using right now.
>
> This is cool. When you want to change your phone because of damage, or
you
> just want a new toy to use, just buy the phone and you don't have to go to
> your carrier and have the esn transferred to the new phone, or I guess you
> can logon to VZW's website and do it yourself there.
>
> This is what we call plug & play on mobile phones!
>
> VZW doesn't even have bluetooth yet.
>
> "Larry" <Larry@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:zP0Hc.76528$kz.15213601@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> > This sounds a little far-fetched. Moving a chip from a Samsung to a
> > Motorola and it worked fine with no modifications? Am I being naive?
> >
> > Larry E.
> >
> > C C wrote:
> > > My co-worker just signed up with T-Mobile. He said he got a Samsung
(?
> Or
> > > Sanyo). The phone has all the ESN, Phone book, etc. programmed in a
> chip
> > > smaller than an SD card. He has a friend who has a Moto V300 just
> sitting
> > > in the closet. His friend said, here, try this out. My co-worker
> removed
> > > the chip from his brand new T-Mobile phone and installed it in the
V300.
> It
> > > works there.
> > >
> > > Why does Verizon have this kind of technology?
> > >
> > > Any pros and cons?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
July 8, 2004 1:22:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2004 07:13:03 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) wrote:

>In article <8ucpe0duo33t922dvj9a34m2b5sf1cinbu@4ax.com>,
>Evan Platt <evan@TheObvious.espphotography.com> wrote:
>>It's a SIM (Subscriber Identity Module) card, and it's used on GSM
>>networks. T-Mobile, Cingular, AT&T, and even Nextel.
>
>Some Nextel phones have support for roaming on overseas GSM service. The
>SIM is used for that functionality. It is not used for their native iDEN
>service in the US, and it cannot access GSM service in the US/Canada.

Newer Nextel phones have a SIM (or the equivalent) and do not need to
be programmed as previously.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
remove NONO from .NONOcom to reply
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 8:51:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 22:29:17 -0700, "Halogen8"
<lagreca@googles.email.service.com> wrote:

>I strongly dissagree with this statement. ATT GSM is far better than
>Verizon CDMA coverage in San Diego. I recieve many more dropped calls since
>I switched from ATT GSM to Verizon.

I'd say on the whole, nationwide, Verizons service is better than AT&T
GSM.

Evan
--
To reply, remove TheObvious from my e-mail address.
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 9:13:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Read what I said again and it should make sense.

"I recieve many more dropped calls since I switched from ATT GSM to
Verizon."

In other words, I recieve more dropped calls with Verizon than ATT GSM.

This is not my opinion but hard numeric facts derived from use of both
systems within the same area.

"Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:-7-dnSl4pdOHenHd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> Halogen8 <lagreca@googles.email.service.com> wrote:
> > I strongly dissagree with this statement. ATT GSM is far better than
> > Verizon CDMA coverage in San Diego. I recieve many more dropped calls
since
> > I switched from ATT GSM to Verizon.
>
> ATT GSM is far better than Verizon but you have many MORE dropped calls on
> ATT? I think you made a typo or two...
>
> --
> JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
> Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
sjsobol@JustThe.net
> PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
> Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 1:26:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Halogen8 <lagreca@googles.email.service.com> wrote:
> Read what I said again and it should make sense.
>
> "I recieve many more dropped calls since I switched from ATT GSM to
> Verizon."
>
> In other words, I recieve more dropped calls with Verizon than ATT GSM.

Got it.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 3:44:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 06:35:04 -0700, Joseph
<JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.NONOcom> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:24:11 GMT, "C C" <someone@microsoft.com>
>wrote:
>
<snip>
>I'm not sure why the North American CDMA operators haven't adopted
>this except perhaps to lock in their customers. Even Nextel uses a
>smart card in their recent handsets now and you are no longer required
>to program a handset to transfer to different equipment.
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> remove NONO from .NONOcom to reply

It's because of an old FCC rule (Section 22.919) that applies to
analog capable phones which requires a hard-coded ESN to prevent
cloning/theft. This rule is currently under consideration for
revision.
See FCC 01-153A1.pdf

Yagi Bear
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 4:33:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <v4tqe09tkum68cc0rkf0d7iv3vpv1ij0ta@4ax.com>,
Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 8 Jul 2004 07:13:03 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) wrote:
>
>>In article <8ucpe0duo33t922dvj9a34m2b5sf1cinbu@4ax.com>,
>>Evan Platt <evan@TheObvious.espphotography.com> wrote:
>>>It's a SIM (Subscriber Identity Module) card, and it's used on GSM
>>>networks. T-Mobile, Cingular, AT&T, and even Nextel.
>>
>>Some Nextel phones have support for roaming on overseas GSM service. The
>>SIM is used for that functionality. It is not used for their native iDEN
>>service in the US, and it cannot access GSM service in the US/Canada.
>
>Newer Nextel phones have a SIM (or the equivalent) and do not need to
>be programmed as previously.

My bad. I seem to be a bit behind on this one.. The initial "world"
iDEN phones from Motorola had a SIM only for international (900MHz)
GSM access, which was not used on the iDEN side. Now iDEN phones indeed
use a SIM card on the iDEN side, including iDEN-only phones.

Sorry for the out-of-date info. The part about only supporting
international GSM (at 900MHz) seems to still be accurate.

The CDMA/GSM phones, such as the Samsung SCH-A790, likewise only support
international GSM (although they support both 900 and 1800MHz).
July 9, 2004 6:00:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 2004-07-09, CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote:
> The CDMA/GSM phones, such as the Samsung SCH-A790

Are there others?
!