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Mixed 800/1900 MHz coverage areas

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Anonymous
July 8, 2004 10:21:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I've read where Verizon has both 800 and 1900 (PCS) MHz coverage
licenses in the same area. The DC metro area (where I am located) is
one of those areas with both coverages listed in the PRL. PCS is
listed with a higher priority than the 800 D/A coverage.

Using my LG VX4400, I've used Force Mode (Under Menu 0) to PCS
(instead of Automatic) in the past. This always resulted in a
Searching for Service message to appear. From this, I've taken it
that PCS mode wasn't active.

Yesterday, much to my surprise, I tried this at my home in Northern
Virginia (near Dulles airport) and service continued. To me, this
means PCS is now available in Northern Virginia. When I got to work
in downtown DC, I tried the same thing. Only this time, I got the
Searching for Service message. So, I presume PCS is not active in DC
as yet.

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time that I've actually
been in a dual 800/1900 area. Since I've detected no difference in
service, I can only conclude that it works seamlessly.

I also assume that, when at my home, I'm now working in PCS mode since
that has a higher priority in the PRL. Is there some way to actually
tell if you are in 1900 versus 800 on the VX4400? One easy way to
tell before was to check the SID. If it was in the 4000 range, it was
PCS. However, both 800 and 1900 show a SID of 0018 here, so that
trick doesn't work.

Also, does anyone know if an automatic handoff will occur when
traversing from a 1900 area into an 800-only area (or vice versa)?
Specifically, if I happen to initiate a call at my home in PCS mode,
will it automatically shift to the 800 frequencies when I leave the
1900 coverage area?

Has anyone else encountered this 800/1900 dual coverage, and do you
have any experiences to share?

Thanks.

Don
July 8, 2004 1:38:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2004 06:21:36 -0700, dmccanless@wmata.com (Donald P.
McCanless) wrote:

>Also, does anyone know if an automatic handoff will occur when
>traversing from a 1900 area into an 800-only area (or vice versa)?
>Specifically, if I happen to initiate a call at my home in PCS mode,
>will it automatically shift to the 800 frequencies when I leave the
>1900 coverage area?

I can't speak to how it works with CDMA, but I know that with GSM and
TDMA in areas where they have both a lower and higher frequency used
in the same place there is no difference and the carrier often deploys
both in the same area to add capacity to the network. That's what
AT&T does since they operate PCS and cellular in the same area in many
places. I'd assume it was the same for CDMA.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Anonymous
July 8, 2004 9:47:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <kvtqe0tra8h8o29lg6ptgssfnphv9a956m@4ax.com>,
Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 8 Jul 2004 06:21:36 -0700, dmccanless@wmata.com (Donald P.
>McCanless) wrote:
>
>>Also, does anyone know if an automatic handoff will occur when
>>traversing from a 1900 area into an 800-only area (or vice versa)?
>>Specifically, if I happen to initiate a call at my home in PCS mode,
>>will it automatically shift to the 800 frequencies when I leave the
>>1900 coverage area?
>
>I can't speak to how it works with CDMA, but I know that with GSM and
>TDMA in areas where they have both a lower and higher frequency used
>in the same place there is no difference and the carrier often deploys
>both in the same area to add capacity to the network. That's what
>AT&T does since they operate PCS and cellular in the same area in many
>places. I'd assume it was the same for CDMA.

The only difference is that when you change bands, it will be a "hard"
handoff (stop using one, start using the other, drop call if there is
a problem), rather than the usual CDMA "soft" handoff, where the phone
is listening to both at the same time for a period while transitioning
between the two. TDMA and GSM have only hard handoffs, so in their case,
a band change is no different than a normal handoff.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 12:50:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

x-no-archive:yes
Here in the NY/NJ market, Verizon is currently overlaying 1900Mhz onto all
their 800Mhz cell sites, & it should be up & running between August-October,
depending on the Specific Area/Zone.
I have no firm information if calls will cross-band handoff, or if they will
not.
On your question about "how to tell", there should be a "field test mode"
for your phone that will show Band, signal & channel info .. Do an internet
search o find out how to enable the test mode....
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 3:27:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

dmccanless@wmata.com (Donald P. McCanless) wrote in message news:<21df82ba.0407080521.4d2b316a@posting.google.com>...
> <edit>
> I also assume that, when at my home, I'm now working in PCS mode since
> that has a higher priority in the PRL. Is there some way to actually
> tell if you are in 1900 versus 800 on the VX4400? One easy way to
> tell before was to check the SID. If it was in the 4000 range, it was
> PCS. However, both 800 and 1900 show a SID of 0018 here, so that
> trick doesn't work.
>
> Also, does anyone know if an automatic handoff will occur when
> traversing from a 1900 area into an 800-only area (or vice versa)?
> Specifically, if I happen to initiate a call at my home in PCS mode,
> will it automatically shift to the 800 frequencies when I leave the
> 1900 coverage area?
>
> Has anyone else encountered this 800/1900 dual coverage, and do you
> have any experiences to share?

For the basic template of coincident VZW Cellular 800 MHz & PCS 1900
MHz spectrum licences, compare these two maps on my site:

http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/vzw_cel.html
http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/vzw_pcs.html

A user in alt.cellular.alltel or in ALLTEL.HowardForums.com posted
this list of VZW SIDs in ALLTEL PRL 1203 that have added PCS ACQ
channel tables to the PRL. Such should indicate active CDMA1x 1900
overlay in at the very least said markets.

2 – Los Angeles, CA;
4 – San Diego, CA;
8 – Philadelphia, PA;
12 – Houston, TX;
17 – St. Louis, MO;
18 – Washington, DC;
56 – Buffalo, NY;
59 – Kansas City, MO;
64 – Las Vegas, NV;
228 – Santa Barbara, CA;
250 – Atlantic City, NJ;
498 – Reno, NV.

As at least one other poster has noted, IS-136 TDMA, GSM, &
CDMA/CDMA1x are all capable of hyperband-handoff -- the term for
interfrequency-handoff between Cellular & PCS, GSM & DCS, or vice
versa, etc. However, CMDA interfrequency-handoff -- whether hyperband
or not -- will always be "break before make" hard-handoff rather than
the CDMA preferred "make before break" soft/softer-handoff.
Conversely, TDMA handoff is always both hard-handoff &
interfrequency-handoff. Thus, the time-division air-interfaces are a
bit more adept at hyperband-handoff -- as the combined FDMA & TDD
structure of TDMA does not require the mobile to transmit & receive
simultaneously -- thereby allowing the mobile between receiving
timeslots to seek control channels on other frequencies for better
mobile assistance w/ handoff -- dubbed MAHO. CDMA has no such luxury
-- CDMA requires both transmitting & receiving continuously -- though
the multi-fingered RAKE receiver mitigates that disadvantage somewhat.

Finally, much of the overlapping VZW PCS spectrum is or will be
devoted to the 1xEV-DO overlay whose carrier channels will be
unavailable & undetectable to 1xRTT mobiles -- as the EV-DO pilot,
sync, & paging channels are broadcast in a cyclical time-division
basis rather than continuous basis. D.C. is the current Lucent test
market for VZW's EV-DO deployment -- San Diego is the Nortel test
market. As such, at least one or two of the three possible CDMA
carrier channels in VZW's PCS D 10 MHz license in your market is
occupied by EV-DO. At best, probably only one of the three possible
CDMA carriers is 1xRTT.

If you enable the debug field service screen on your handset, note the
CDMA carrier channel on which you idle or on which you are assigned a
traffic channel. VZW Cellular B-side will utilize carrier channels
such as CEL 384, CEL 425, CEL 466, et al. But VZW PCS will use PCS
0325, PCS 0350, &/or PCS 0375 -- the only three ARFCN assignments w/
the PCS D 10 MHz license. If you observe any of the latter three
channel numbers, then you are using 1900 MHz.

Andrew
--
Andrew Shepherd
cinema@ku.edu
cinema@sprintpcs.com
http://www.wirelesswavelength.com/
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 3:27:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2004 06:21:36 -0700, dmccanless@wmata.com (Donald P.
McCanless) wrote:

<snip>
>
> Is there some way to actually
>tell if you are in 1900 versus 800 on the VX4400? One easy way to
>tell before was to check the SID. If it was in the 4000 range, it was
>PCS. However, both 800 and 1900 show a SID of 0018 here, so that
>trick doesn't work.
>

Menu 0,2,1

Yagi Bear
Anonymous
July 10, 2004 8:45:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2004 06:21:36 -0700, dmccanless@wmata.com (Donald P.
McCanless) wrote:

>Also, does anyone know if an automatic handoff will occur when
>traversing from a 1900 area into an 800-only area (or vice versa)?
>Specifically, if I happen to initiate a call at my home in PCS mode,
>will it automatically shift to the 800 frequencies when I leave the
>1900 coverage area?

Yes...handoffs between 800 and 1900 are most certainly possible and
*do* happen.

VZW recently turned up 1900 coverage on I-20 in Cleburne County, AL to
fill a native coverage gap between the Atlanta and Anniston areas
(RCC/Unicel and Cingular have the two 800 MHz licenses in Cleburne
County); driving along I-20 from Atlanta to Anniston you'll go from
800 on SID 41 in Georgia, to 1900 on SID 113 in Cleburne County, back
to 800 on SID 113 a few miles into Calhoun County.

For awhile in Macon, GA, VZW phones preferred 1900 over 800; leaving
the immediate Macon area (say, along I-16), phones would hand off from
1900 to 800. VZW phones now prefer 800 in Macon.

Here in Atlanta, and in a number of other areas (Macon, Chattanooga,
etc.), VZW has one 1900 MHz carrier channel running on 1900 in some
areas, but the coverage is very weak and VZW doesn't let phones
actually register on it; any attempt by a phone to register on 1900
results in the network knocking it back to a carrier channel on 800,
or sometimes down to AMPS.

-SC
--
Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
....
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might
be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune
Anonymous
July 10, 2004 6:05:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:27:55 GMT, Yagi Bear
<cnb_repair@spamproofingyahoo.com> chose to add this to the great equation
of life, the universe, and everything:

>On 8 Jul 2004 06:21:36 -0700, dmccanless@wmata.com (Donald P.
>McCanless) wrote:
>
>> Is there some way to actually
>>tell if you are in 1900 versus 800 on the VX4400? One easy way to
>>tell before was to check the SID. If it was in the 4000 range, it was
>>PCS. However, both 800 and 1900 show a SID of 0018 here, so that
>>trick doesn't work.
>
>Menu 0,2,1

Right. The second line in that display is Mode. It will be either A(MPS),
C(ellular), or P(CS).

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"Zaphod Beeblebrox, this is a very large drink. Hi." - Zaphod Beeblebrox
July 10, 2004 6:22:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> >> Is there some way to actually
> >>tell if you are in 1900 versus 800 on the VX4400? One easy way to
> >>tell before was to check the SID. If it was in the 4000 range, it was
> >>PCS. However, both 800 and 1900 show a SID of 0018 here, so that
> >>trick doesn't work.
> >
> >Menu 0,2,1
>
> Right. The second line in that display is Mode. It will be either A(MPS),
> C(ellular), or P(CS).

Is there anyway to tell which band I am on using my VX 4500? I don't
believe the 4500 has this capability? ( I tried going to Menu>0 and I get
sevice code??????) What's this? anyone get anywhere with this unlisted menu
selection?

Bob
Anonymous
July 10, 2004 8:02:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 7/10/04 8:22 AM, in article
gYSHc.2706$JW6.1499151@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net, "Bob" <rfa5@optonline.net>
wrote:

>
>>>> Is there some way to actually
>>>> tell if you are in 1900 versus 800 on the VX4400? One easy way to
>>>> tell before was to check the SID. If it was in the 4000 range, it was
>>>> PCS. However, both 800 and 1900 show a SID of 0018 here, so that
>>>> trick doesn't work.
>>>
>>> Menu 0,2,1
>>
>> Right. The second line in that display is Mode. It will be either A(MPS),
>> C(ellular), or P(CS).
>
> Is there anyway to tell which band I am on using my VX 4500? I don't
> believe the 4500 has this capability? ( I tried going to Menu>0 and I get
> sevice code??????) What's this? anyone get anywhere with this unlisted menu
> selection?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
The service code on VZW phones is six zeros which means the phone is not
locked like some other providers do.

Steve
Anonymous
July 12, 2004 1:24:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2004 06:21:36 -0700, dmccanless@wmata.com (Donald P. McCanless)
chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
everything:

>I've read where Verizon has both 800 and 1900 (PCS) MHz coverage
>licenses in the same area.

It would be nice if they did it in Chicago, too. Even with a very strong
signal, it can sometimes take several seconds or longer to place a call. I
don't suppose they kept any of the Primeco spectrum when they sold it to US
Cellular?...

Well, I can at least smile at this dream: in a couple of years, Cingular
will have consolidated the AT&T customers onto the Cingular Cell-A towers
and sell off at least some of the AT&T PCS spectrum and towers; maybe VZW
can buy it.

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"Modesty is one of my girlish qualities." - Witch Hazel
!