Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (
More info?)
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:29:12 +0100, Clive Page <junk@page.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
>In message <kd8mk05kuvul5bakj8orqrs13ofc1pfktl@4ax.com>, Jeff Liebermann
><jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> writes
>>I bought a Dodge truck. I couldn't figure out how to make it go, so I
>>called the factory. They were not very helpful. I couldn't
>>understand why they insisted that I learn to drive before they would
>>tell my how to fix the engine. Their support was apparently in
>>Detroit, where they speak a very strange style of the kings English.
>>I don't like Dodge. Maybe if I bought a Ford or Chevy, the factory
>>would teach me to drive and fix my engine over the phone.
>I don't think that is a very good analogy.
I guess I have time for another rant...
The analogy has its weak spots. For example, the automobile
manufacturers have a large and fairly competent dealer networks
designed to provide service. The wireless router manufacturers do
not. With a vehicle, you can deal with the dealer or independent
service network. With wireless routers, you're stuck with dealing
with Netgear.
Yet, Netgear isn't really the manufacturer. Netgear buys their
products from Bromax, Eumitcom, Cameo Comm, Delta, and other overseas
manufacturers. Netgear is somewhat like the automotive dealer
network. They can provide some level of service, but cannot fix
fundamental defects. If Netgear gets handed some buggy firmware by
their supplier, there's little they can do until the next inevitable
release. Why didn't you call Taiwan and ask for support?
>I know how to drive my
>Netgear router, but for the first few months after purchase it crashed
>for reasons totally beyond my control.
I guess you didn't read the 2nd paragraph of my posting. Feel free to
trash Netgears reputation and support. However, without specific
models, versions, releases, and firmware numbers, your complaints have
little weight. Every manufacturer of anything (including some stuff I
designed) has their problems, their loss leaders, their losers, and
their bugs. Even versions of the same product differ in quality. If
you judge the quality of a product or vendor by a single product or
single incident, you will rapidly run out of vendors to select from.
Supply some details or don't bother complaining.
>If you had a car or truck which
>did that, wouldn't you expect the manufacturer to respond, and maybe
>even pay you compensation?
Sure. The courts are full of product liability cases, where the
victim has to sue the manufactory in order to get their attention.
I've also watched companies go out of business dealing with
multimega-dollar claims. See:
http://www.bigclassaction.com
for a wide selection of cases. No match for Netgear. Sorry.
Corporations are evil and should be made to pay for their mistakes.
Also, being a victim is quite popular these days.
>I *know* that it was Netgear's fault, because they subsequently produced
>revised firmware which works fine.
That's fortunate because in the past, Netgear has simply abandoned the
product and the customers. I had about 5 of the original Netgear
WAP11 access points (with the Atmel chipset) that never did work
right. Four firmware updates never did fix the hangs and lockups.
Eventually, Netgear came up with the version 2 incantation of the
WAP11 with totally different hardware and firmware. It was better but
had some other problem. I think the 4th mutation finally worked
right. There was no trade up or warranty available for victims of the
original WAP11 radios. I still buy Netgear products, but not if
there's another alternative.
>But they responded to my emailed
>query only to say that they didn't provide support by email. The
>alternative was to call their phone line, which (in the UK) is more
>expensive than normal calls, and which, from various reports I've seen,
>takes a huge amount of your time.
Most support organizations look at it differently. They try to be
thorough. If it takes all day, that's just fine with them. It's much
better than the bad old days where if they couldn't fix your problem
in 5 minutes on the phone, you were effectively disconnected or put on
permanent hold until a "level 2 tech" or some such non existant expert
could be found.
As for charging for support calls, I find it rather rare that I have
to call support for any product. Therefore, I find it difficult to
justify subsidizing YOUR support calls. There's no such thing as
"free" support as the cost is plowed into the product cost. If you
want phone support, you can pay for it, not me.
>I think that the Netgear product that I bought is now ok, but having
>some experience of their software support policy, I would not recommend
>them to others, and will seek alternative brands when I next need
>networking hardware. Is that so unreasonable?
Nope. That's fine. Would you like to see my black list of companies
which I can do without? Just one problem. Like you, I won't bother
to supply details on my grievances with these companies. How
reasonable is that?
>Their poor support has lost them a customer. Only monopolies can afford
>to do that on any significant scale.
Netgear (Cisco) is far from a monopoly. Let me put is more bluntly in
rhetorical question format. How much would you pay for good support?
Do you want to pay for someone else's support calls? Perhaps the
money spent on support would be better invested in testing and
programming? If you want quality, wouldn't it be better if you bought
a higher priced product supported by an experienced dealer network
(Cisco 1200, Sonicwall, Proxim)?
Quality, support, cheap.... pick two.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
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