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Why Steam Seems Very Bad, But Your Thoughts?

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January 10, 2010 6:00:13 PM

Ok, i bought Fear 2, which can only be used through Steam, which is not mentioned until you get the box in the mail (thats crappy in itself).

Then, of course, you can 'buy' games from steam that must be used with them and then, if I understand correctly, only on your account.

So, this is very bad, because:

1) you dont own the game, and therefore there is no resale value (I buy games, play them a year, then sell them on ebay, but no more), as opposed to the normal buying the games with CD and key code.

but more importantly:

2) the games are locked to steam. So what happens if steam goes out of business? hey, happens everyday, look at the 1hundred+ year old companies that folded the last year. If I am forced to buy and use games through them, then I could like spend a bunch of money and lose it all when they go bust. Again, dont think they cant, cause it happens all the time.

So, this is very bad.

Steam is simply a company trying to make a buck, as are the companies that develop/provide the games, and there is nothing bad about that, but:

I really hate buying something I cant resale, and there does not seem to be any consumer protection against them going out of business and then customers losing all their stuff.

I would like to state that yes, I am against piracy, and buy all my games either new or used off ebay (never pirated and wont in my life), and there should be another way other than Steam.

Just curious what others think about this.

More about : steam bad thoughts

January 10, 2010 7:11:55 PM

no, that is not how it has always been, so use your seach engines (and of course apparently your gullible enough to believe anything posted on the net, or by steam) to see history.


you buy the cd with the key code, then you can resell it if you want. THAT WAS THE WAY IT ALWAYS WAS. YOU CAN TRANSFER THE RIGHT TO USE THE SOFTWARE, but with steam you cant.

dont you see the difference??? are you that dumb????

anyway, if this is old news, then someone delete this thread and i will go humbly with all the other lambs/cows and into the slaghter pen.
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January 10, 2010 7:30:22 PM

sorry, i take back the disrespectful comments.
anyway, now i know that before buying a game, to research it to see if steam activation is required.
Again, sorry for the crap.

Prediction: in like 5 years, new DRM will be around, and steam will (hopefully) be belly up
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January 10, 2010 7:32:19 PM

i bought FEAR2, dont really care for it, and am now stuck with it (as opposed to selling for a few bucks, letting someone else have fun, and then saving to buy another game)

Im 'steamed', since newegg didnt mention that steam activation was required.
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January 11, 2010 11:02:16 AM

Nope; you buy Licences, not the game. The licences are transferable though, so the end user thinks they "own" the game; they do not.

Remember people, even if Steam goes down, you can still run via offline mode (you just forgo any potential updates). And I'd imagine its a really simple fix to remove the Steam dependency from the game.exe anyway. No different then paying to play any other online game, as you run the risk of the company in question shutting down their servers...
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January 11, 2010 11:53:05 AM

I was like you 5 years ago when I bought a game that required steam and I was like “why do we need steam”. But very quickly I realize the benefits of having steam (in fact now I like steam so much that in the last 2 years the 80% of my games are from steam).

Here are some benefits of having steam:
  • Very good deals, prices
  • One click and you are in the game so simple. No need to use cd's any more.
  • it’s convenient. You don't need to go to the store or waiting for an online delivery.
  • Early release dates.
  • Games auto-update
  • Grate community
  • You can chat with your friends while you play games
  • Steam keep statistics of your games
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    January 11, 2010 3:23:32 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    sorry, i take back the disrespectful comments.
    anyway, now i know that before buying a game, to research it to see if steam activation is required.
    Again, sorry for the crap.

    Prediction: in like 5 years, new DRM will be around, and steam will (hopefully) be belly up

    Steams success/value to customers has very little to do with DRM. The fact that it does offer non-intrusive DRM which other companies have latched onto is just a plus for them.

    Steam is a hugely successful distribution service first and foremost. Use of Steam for DRM could be completely eliminated and it would have almost no impact on the service.
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    January 11, 2010 6:42:17 PM

    stop hating on steam... i'm happy with steam. Have never had any problems at all.

    i could see the concern if they were to go out of business, but I doubt that's going to happen. ( unless they insist on charging $60 for games like MW2 )
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    January 11, 2010 6:46:14 PM

    Just to mention, I know many people who make a new account for every steam game, and then they sell those accounts.
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    January 12, 2010 5:13:25 PM

    michaelmk86 said:
    I was like you 5 years ago when I bought a game that required steam and I was like “why do we need steam”. But very quickly I realize the benefits of having steam (in fact now I like steam so much that in the last 2 years the 80% of my games are from steam).

    Here are some benefits of having steam:
  • Very good deals, prices
  • One click and you are in the game so simple. No need to use cd's any more.
  • it’s convenient. You don't need to go to the store or waiting for an online delivery.
  • Early release dates.
  • Games auto-update
  • Grate community
  • You can chat with your friends while you play games
  • Steam keep statistics of your games


  • Is everyone who works at steam going to dogpile me? Please, I must respond to this marketing blitz:
    1) Very good deals, prices (not compared to used ones at amazon or ebay, by far, and even new ones are expensive or no different than ones bought retail at the store and can resale them later, so thats a ridiculous statement, with steam still cant resale game later)
    2) One click and you are in the game so simple. No need to use cd's any more. (ummm...you still have to install from the cd's and then activate throug steam, so no difference. also, after normal installing the cd, it is only one click to normally play the game anyway, and you cant resale the game)
    3) it’s convenient. You don't need to go to the store or waiting for an online delivery. (maybe, but i like to go to the store, or order online only takes like 4 days anyway, and the prices can be much less expensive, plus you get to keep the game for resale)
    4) Early release dates (i dont know if that is true or not, but i thought games were released everywhere on the same day, still cant keep the game for resale)
    5) Games auto-update (so, I am capable of updating my games, still cant resale game)
    6) Grate community (I dont need anymore 'community', still cant resale games)
    7) You can chat with your friends while you play games (you can do that anyway, but still cant resale games)
    8) Steam keep statistics of your games (so, i dont care about that anyway. And exactly what does steam use this information about me for anyway?? Hummm? Still cant resale the games)
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    January 12, 2010 5:16:19 PM

    Did I mention that with Steam, you cant keep the game for resale.
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    January 12, 2010 5:17:26 PM

    One last word, if I failed to get my point across:

    You cant resale a game from Steam
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    January 12, 2010 7:34:08 PM

    Here's an idea...don't buy your games from steam if you want to resell them. It sounds like the games you play don't have alot of replayability or don't have much life after you beat. Or you just become bored very easily. Whatever it is, just buy the cd if it bothers you that much. I, personally, love steam for those reasons listed above too. Also, what happens if you lose your cd? You're gonna have to buy a brand new one (or used one). Or what happens if your cd gets scratched? You're SOL. With steam, all of the files are stored on the computer. So no more lost or scratched CDs. To each his own though.
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    January 12, 2010 8:15:13 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    Is everyone who works at steam going to dogpile me? Please, I must respond to this marketing blitz:
    1) Very good deals, prices (not compared to used ones at amazon or ebay, by far, and even new ones are expensive or no different than ones bought retail at the store and can resale them later, so thats a ridiculous statement, with steam still cant resale game later)
    2) One click and you are in the game so simple. No need to use cd's any more. (ummm...you still have to install from the cd's and then activate throug steam, so no difference. also, after normal installing the cd, it is only one click to normally play the game anyway, and you cant resale the game)
    3) it’s convenient. You don't need to go to the store or waiting for an online delivery. (maybe, but i like to go to the store, or order online only takes like 4 days anyway, and the prices can be much less expensive, plus you get to keep the game for resale)
    4) Early release dates (i dont know if that is true or not, but i thought games were released everywhere on the same day, still cant keep the game for resale)
    5) Games auto-update (so, I am capable of updating my games, still cant resale game)
    6) Grate community (I dont need anymore 'community', still cant resale games)
    7) You can chat with your friends while you play games (you can do that anyway, but still cant resale games)
    8) Steam keep statistics of your games (so, i dont care about that anyway. And exactly what does steam use this information about me for anyway?? Hummm? Still cant resale the games)


    1) It seems like you haven't noticed, but you can buy games off Steam, and it'll download them & install them for you. And Steam has a deal every weekend that's usually a VERY good deal. I got the entire Orange Box for $10 on one, got 4 games (3 very good ones) for $10 on another, and grabbed a few other things at 50-75% off.

    2) Most games requiring Steam are actually Valve (who owns/runs Steam) games, and most are bought off Steam, anyway.

    3) A store that will auto-download and auto-install for you, is very convinient.
    4) If you pre-order a game with Steam, you can download 99% of it BEFORE it's released, and it'll download the last tiny bit at midnight, so you can play exactly at midnight if you are that crazy.
    5) Auto-updating is useful. Means you never have to worry about it at all.
    6)Community is important for some people
    7)Chatting with friends is a good thing
    8)It's fun to sometimes look up your kill/death ratio, or look it up with every class you play with, every gun, etc.

    OH! And you never replied to my thing, that lots of people buy steam games, but use a different account for every one, and then SELL that account + games. Hence, you effectively CAN reSELL games.

    And it's "resell" not "resale"
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    January 12, 2010 9:30:25 PM

    Great, old games cheap (orange box?? give me a break, like 3-5 year old games??? made for a ATI x1600pro?? I think my grandmother is playing those games)

    My model is basically this:

    I buy like 2 of the newest games (like $50 each). I play them for like 2 months (come on, if you cant make it through a game in 2 months, you must really be a bad gamer), then sell them before the price has come down (say for like $30 each, while they are still listed new or on your favorite steam site for $50), then....

    I buy another 2 new games and do it all over again - its the equivalent of always having the newest games for 1/2 the price, every 2 months or so. Yes, I go through a lot of games, but life is too short to still be playing multiplayer on an online game with 7 people.

    I dont know about yall, but after I finish a game, its done, and replay bores me (play over again, knowing what is going to happen???? Does anyone really play a game over again??? Please, get a life)

    I bet I have played more games Desakav than your whole family tree - for half the price.

    The only exception I have found is Call of Duty Modern Warfare, where online you can keep unlocking weapons/stuff in the multiplayer.

    PS Shakespeare:
    American Heritage Dictionary: resale NOUN:

    The act of selling again.

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    January 13, 2010 12:29:06 AM

    Any game worth playing is worth playing for 4+ years

    If a game is worth getting rid of in under 1 year, it's not worth my time.

    Nut shell: Single player blows

    Hell, Starcraft is still fun and so is TF2 and CS and Quake3.

    Steam is awesome, now I don't need to keep track of my media if I feel like reinstalling an old game.
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    January 13, 2010 11:03:25 AM

    Quote:

    1) Very good deals, prices (not compared to used ones at amazon or ebay, by far, and even new ones are expensive or no different than ones bought retail at the store and can resale them later, so thats a ridiculous statement, with steam still cant resale game later)


    I still have my old DOS collection; you don't re-sell good games. Granted, some games [Strategy, RTS, RPG] are more re-playable then others, but I've replayed all the games in my Steam collection [about 30 now I think] at least 2-3 times.

    Quote:

    2) One click and you are in the game so simple. No need to use cd's any more. (ummm...you still have to install from the cd's and then activate throug steam, so no difference. also, after normal installing the cd, it is only one click to normally play the game anyway, and you cant resale the game)


    Not always; When you buy a game of Steam, you don't need the physical media. Some games chose to use Steam as their DRM platform though, which means that even with the physical disk, you need to install through Steam. Fear2 and MW2 are two examples of this.

    Quote:

    3) it’s convenient. You don't need to go to the store or waiting for an online delivery. (maybe, but i like to go to the store, or order online only takes like 4 days anyway, and the prices can be much less expensive, plus you get to keep the game for resale)


    Generally, theres not a giant price difference unless you find someone on Amazon who is selling at a significant discount. I just went on a Steam binge, and comparing amazon to Steam, I found every gameon Steam cheaper. Plus, I didn't have to wait more then 2 hours to get the game fully delivered and installed via Steam.

    Quote:

    4) Early release dates (i dont know if that is true or not, but i thought games were released everywhere on the same day, still cant keep the game for resale)


    Steam generally lets you pre-load games, and will occasionally unlock the game a day or two early.

    Quote:

    5) Games auto-update (so, I am capable of updating my games, still cant resale game)


    I should note you can choose to turn Auto-update off.

    Quote:

    6) Grate community (I dont need anymore 'community', still cant resale games)


    Quote:

    7) You can chat with your friends while you play games (you can do that anyway, but still cant resale games)


    You chat via the Steam client, regardless of game support and what game each person is playing. Outside of other third party programs (Xfire, etc), there is no way to accomplish this.

    Quote:

    8) Steam keep statistics of your games (so, i dont care about that anyway. And exactly what does steam use this information about me for anyway?? Hummm? Still cant resale the games)


    Steam mainly tracks sales (so it knows when to discount), playing time (so it knows how to allocate servers, i guess), and achievements (Self explanatory).

    Basically, your argument comes down to lacking re-sale. MY advice, if you want to re-sell games that quickly, you probably shouldn't get them in the first place.
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    January 13, 2010 3:17:34 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:


    I dont know about yall, but after I finish a game, its done, and replay bores me (play over again, knowing what is going to happen???? Does anyone really play a game over again??? Please, get a life)

    I bet I have played more games Desakav than your whole family tree - for half the price.

    The only exception I have found is Call of Duty Modern Warfare, where online you can keep unlocking weapons/stuff in the multiplayer.

    PS Shakespeare:
    American Heritage Dictionary: resale NOUN:

    The act of selling again.


    hahaha. couple of things about that above quote. First off, you say "get a life" because someone plays a game over again and then you go on to brag that you've played more games than a person's entire family tree. Am I the only one that sees the irony in that?
    Second, good job on using the dictionary to find a word. Unfortunately, you're using it in the wrong context. Yes, resale is a noun and it is a real word, but the way you're trying to use it is as a verb. In that scenario, it would be RESELL.
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    January 13, 2010 6:10:29 PM

    Im guilty on both points. That actually is quite funny, the get a life thingee and Im a game hog, and then my misuse of the word :pt1cable: 
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    January 14, 2010 2:05:10 PM

    @ OneHumongousLoser,

    It seems that your entire argument against Steam revolves around not being able to resell your games. Understandable but two points; First off Steam is hardly the only method of blocking resales and in the case of FEAR2 it's only the mechanism being used by the publisher who decided to block resales. Lots of publishers are choosing to go this way and Steam is simply a distribution service which can be utilized by these companies to prevent resales of PC games. Your anger is misdirected at Steam when it should be at the publishers who don't want you reselling their games.

    Secondly, realize that a lot of games have zero interest in reselling they used games. Many take great pride in building a large library of games - even bad games or hardly played titles. In my 20+ years of gaming I've sold/traded maybe 5 games and I regretted each one. Getting $20 here and there, maybe $40, even a few hundred for a handful of titles is not worth it for me to part with my games. Even worse almost every game I've every traded or sold I've ended up buying again at some point because I wanted to play it again. Even if I make a net profit on selling the game then buying it later for less I still would rather have had it all along.
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    January 14, 2010 2:52:35 PM

    these days a gamer needs steam like he needs oxygen.

    team fortress 2, left 4 dead 2, counterstrike source, modern warfare 2.

    even if valve/steam were to go out of business with no contingency plan to support the customers, it won't be long before unofficial cracks are available online.

    steam is the future. dev's lose millions of £ every year because it's too easy to bittorrent games instead of buying.
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    January 14, 2010 3:05:12 PM

    purplerat, couldn't agree more. Think of it this way too, when you see a great a movie, do you think to yourself, "That was great! I'm never going to watch that again." Of course not and it's the same with a great game. Especially for a lot of newer games which let you take slighty different paths in the story based on your actions, you can get alot of replayability from such games. Add in multiplayer and stat tracking and you've got a time-consuming combination.
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    January 14, 2010 5:17:17 PM

    I should mention, with my replaying, part of that has to do with the kinds of games I enjoy. Strategy (both real-time and turn-based), RPG, stealth, and story-heavy games are my favorites, so... I replay most things twice given enough time.

    Also, here's a huge advantage for me with Steam: since I'm in college, and I move a lot (probably ~3 times a year), I don't have to worry about having enough space for my games, moving my games, or my roommates stealing my games. Steam has been the way I've bought most of my games in the last few years for those reasons alone. Oh, and weekend deals, I'm not a graphics whore so I know there are a LOT of older games I've missed.

    And the most I've ever spent on a game was about $35. Once for Oblivion, which I dropped 6 months and 150+ hours into, and once for the Witcher, which I've sunk 90 hours into, am not yet done, and I bought 4 months ago.

    And thanks to someone who pointed out the using a noun in a verb's place, I was gone... :( 
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    January 14, 2010 7:18:07 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    Great, old games cheap (orange box?? give me a break, like 3-5 year old games??? made for a ATI x1600pro?? I think my grandmother is playing those games)

    My model is basically this:

    I buy like 2 of the newest games (like $50 each). I play them for like 2 months (come on, if you cant make it through a game in 2 months, you must really be a bad gamer), then sell them before the price has come down (say for like $30 each, while they are still listed new or on your favorite steam site for $50), then....
    .


    As somebody else has already said... Games that are actually good have replay value. If you just play through a game once in 8 hours and that's it... it's definitely not worth 50-60$. I still play starcraft and tf2 also... you know they did something right when starcraft has been out for 10 years and still have tens of thousands of people playing it online.
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    January 15, 2010 2:55:38 PM

    You are all a bunch of hoarders
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    January 17, 2010 3:55:17 AM

    I think the best analogy mentioned above was movies. Do you just buy a movie then resell it? Selling a game is selling your memories. Tempted to buy the ID pack off of steam. <3 Doom

    And talking about the money aspect. The industry makes about 1-2 semi-decent games per year. At $20 resale, you're saving ~$40 per year. I can save more than $40 on my heating by putting a $6 piece of styrafoam in my bay window during the winter.
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    January 19, 2010 8:13:27 PM

    Gamestop is a huge sucess, and a big chain store now.

    Now, what is it that they do....ummm......oh yes!!!... People sell their old games to them, and then they sell those used games to other people who want to play it !!!

    Come on people, there is a huge demand for used games.


    At Christmas, the lines were really long. Their sales were huge!

    Now, if steam were to allow selling of MY games that I BOUGHT WITH MY MONEY... but actually steam owns everything, even though I bought it...should be robbery.

    Please tell me about how people take pride in owning a game library through steam??? You have no game boxes, no cd's, no manuals - what are you gonna do, print out your account game list from steam and post it next to your computer?? (Look at my account!!! gosh, i have so many games, some the smithsonian even has in their museum too - oh yeah, that 1995 Doom game, let me play it again!! waahooo)

    By the way, Doom3 on ebay is $3.00+3.50 shippin= $6.50
    and on steam its $20!!!

    Doom3 Resurection of Evil is $10 + 3.50 shipping= $13.50 while on steam its $20!!!!

    and you can resell them if you want to.

    tell me again about these great prices, i bet i could beat all of them on ebay/amazon (and oh yes, get the box and cd and can resell them!!!)

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    January 20, 2010 2:10:54 AM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    Gamestop is a huge sucess, and a big chain store now.

    Now, what is it that they do....ummm......oh yes!!!... People sell their old games to them, and then they sell those used games to other people who want to play it !!!

    Come on people, there is a huge demand for used games.


    At Christmas, the lines were really long. Their sales were huge!

    Now, if steam were to allow selling of MY games that I BOUGHT WITH MY MONEY... but actually steam owns everything, even though I bought it...should be robbery.

    Please tell me about how people take pride in owning a game library through steam??? You have no game boxes, no cd's, no manuals - what are you gonna do, print out your account game list from steam and post it next to your computer?? (Look at my account!!! gosh, i have so many games, some the smithsonian even has in their museum too - oh yeah, that 1995 Doom game, let me play it again!! waahooo)

    By the way, Doom3 on ebay is $3.00+3.50 shippin= $6.50
    and on steam its $20!!!

    Doom3 Resurection of Evil is $10 + 3.50 shipping= $13.50 while on steam its $20!!!!

    and you can resell them if you want to.

    tell me again about these great prices, i bet i could beat all of them on ebay/amazon (and oh yes, get the box and cd and can resell them!!!)

    Gamestop doesn't sell used PC games so your comparison is invalid.

    Also you sound like an idiot when you make fun of others for wanting to keep their old games yet you make such a big deal about the damn box and paper that comes in the box. I don't care about a game manual. Never even read one and I throw all of those over sized boxes away as soon as I get the game out. BTW I do have Doom II on my desktop and it's always great fun to jump in on nightmare for a few minutes when I have nothing better to do.

    Honestly I don't really get why people bother selling or buying used PC games at all. Just pirate them, it's essentially the same thing anyways so why not save your money? I'm not advocating piracy but if you don't care about licensing anyways you might as well be smart about it and save yourself a few more dollars. Oh yeah, that's right - you really love those boxes and manuals. Stupid me, I only keep the games.
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    January 20, 2010 11:42:19 AM

    Absolutely untrue strangestranger. A used game has been bought from them, they got their money for the game. Piracy they get absolutely nothing. I dont equate buying a used game with piracy (I really never thought of it that way though, and really hate piracy. Will have to mull that one).

    Is this really the best yall can come up with for responses? nit pick my arguments/rants/posts??

    I really expected better responses, but I guess you cant polish a turd (steam) and make it look good.
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    January 20, 2010 11:47:20 AM

    Used games do not give a cent to the publisher/developer. They are sold secondhand. Devs/Publishers only make money on the initial sale to the distributors that sell the game.

    And as stated above, Gamestop doesn't sell used PC games [mainly due to CD key issues]

    If the PC industry wants more money, stop flooding the market with FPS that are exactly the same. [Seriously, the last advancement in FPS was Halo [health system]]
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    January 20, 2010 12:31:30 PM

    Gamestop sells very few PC games, I know.
    My main point was they sell used games.
    So what is the difference between selling a used console game and a used PC game?
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    January 20, 2010 2:00:52 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    Gamestop sells very few PC games, I know.
    My main point was they sell used games.
    So what is the difference between selling a used console game and a used PC game?

    99% of console users are not going to buy a game copy it and sell it to somebody else. With PC games it's incredibly easy to do so. When I was buying PC games retail I would always copying the game, write down the key and find any necessary cracks just in case something happened to the game. If I sold any of those games there is nothing stopping from still playing them. Not only would the developer not get anything from the person who bought the game off me, but I would be making pure profit without losing anything off of that developers work.

    Also I think more and more developers are looking at used console sales and asking what's the difference from PC games. They'd like to see used console game sales go the way of used PC games.
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    January 20, 2010 2:44:37 PM

    I didnt know that.
    wow, I should have been making copies all these years (just joking).

    I dont know how to copy a PC game, much less how to acquire a pirated copy (unless a used game falls into that category).

    So, basically, the whole steam concept eventually comes down to copyright protection (and game sale protection). I can understand and appreceiate that.

    I can understand that, but still dont like it.
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    January 20, 2010 9:02:37 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    Absolutely untrue strangestranger. A used game has been bought from them, they got their money for the game. Piracy they get absolutely nothing. I dont equate buying a used game with piracy (I really never thought of it that way though, and really hate piracy. Will have to mull that one).

    Is this really the best yall can come up with for responses? nit pick my arguments/rants/posts??

    I really expected better responses, but I guess you cant polish a turd (steam) and make it look good.

    *cough* http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-polishing-a... *cough* 2min 30sec into the video

    Actually on topic - As others have said, Steam also is a means of fighting software piracy. I can't tell you how many LANs I've been to where someone purchased a game (say, Serious Sam) and then the rest of us used his install disk to install the game and then play multiplayer for hours. With Steam, each of us have to purchase the game. I'm actually very happy due to this process - this way the developers get their revenue in order to put back into producing better games for us.
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    January 21, 2010 12:17:40 PM

    "I'm actually very happy due to this process - this way the developers get their revenue in order to put back into producing better games for us. "

    Utterly bogus argument. You are giving up rights of purchase, your right of ownership, you meak little socialist/communist wimp.

    You paid for something, you should be the owner to resell as you want to.

    Does this mean you are also willing (and support):
    buying one car - and have to crunch it since you cannot resell it?
    buy one house - and never move because you cant resell it?
    etc. etc. etc.


    In short - buying anything - and never actually owning it? Sounds like you are.

    Fine, wake up one day with nothing to show for your hard work.







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    January 21, 2010 12:40:34 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:

    ...
    Utterly bogus argument. You are giving up rights of purchase, your right of ownership, you meak little socialist/communist wimp.
    ...


    Does this qualify as Godwin's Law?

    It's close enough for me.
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    January 21, 2010 12:48:17 PM

    No. I made no analogies to Hitler or any of that.

    Only to an economic system where people give up individual rights, and individual ownership for some supposedly 'common good' that history shows ends in more suffering, more hardship than otherwise would happen.

    Fine, I will quote Benjamin Franklin then:

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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    January 21, 2010 1:00:18 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    No. I made no analogies to Hitler or any of that.

    Only to an economic system where people give up individual rights, and individual ownership for some supposedly 'common good' that history shows ends in more suffering, more hardship than otherwise would happen.

    Fine, I will quote Benjamin Franklin then:

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    Ok, then you've displayed a complete lack of understanding of IP and licensing. Anyways, as has already be mentioned you are completely free to sell your Steam account and all games associated with that account. You can also create individual accounts for each game and sell them individually. So your argument is fail either way.

    Also your ideas of economic/social systems is flawed. Socialist systems would support ideas and IP as being common property and not restricted to individual (or corporate) ownership. The licensing/copyright system is a product of capitalism where everything people can claim ownership and rights over an idea or intellectual property. In a capitalist system it's the creator of a given idea, or who every first thinks to claim ownership, who has the right to determine how it is sold, traded, used etc.

    In a communist system somebody who creates an idea does so for the common good not for their own benefit. If you lived in a communist country and created a game it would be owned by everybody not you (i.e. Tetris).
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    January 21, 2010 1:44:05 PM

    You people cant handle DISSENT. My arguments are not extreme, they have been played over and over, with the same questions and conclusions by thousands (if not millions).

    Quit mis-characterizing my arguments (trying to imply I invoke Nazis??), and then shooting them down. That works on AM talk radio for the weak minded. I expected more from here.

    I dont know what a Troll is, besides a fictional character.

    Just because some lawyers get together somewhere and passes some laws DOES NOT MAKE THEM RIGHT, NOR THE BEST LAWS. THERE CAN BE OTHER WAYS THAT ARE BETTER, so pull your heads out of the sand, you brain-washed masses.

    Also, steam specifically states that if they find you are selling your accounts, they will disable it, and ban you (maybe you should read their policy before you start spouting off about how great they are, and they allow this and that)
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    January 21, 2010 1:51:13 PM

    You're the one calling anybody who doesn't agree with you "weak minded". I use Steam, like it and have no problem with it. I don't sell games regardless of where I bought them so that arguments is pointless to me. For some reason that really seems to bother you.
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    January 21, 2010 3:50:07 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    Gamestop sells very few PC games, I know.
    My main point was they sell used games.
    So what is the difference between selling a used console game and a used PC game?


    The potential for banned CD keys mostly. Its not good business to sell a used PC game, then find out the games CD-key is invalid/banned. Console games are free of that restriction, so as long as the disk runs, there are no ways for Gamestop to get hurt.
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    January 21, 2010 4:47:50 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    I really expected better responses, but I guess you cant polish a turd (steam) and make it look good.



    Didn't Mythbusters successfully polish a turd?

    I thought I saw an episode about that very thing. :lol: 

    Have you learned anything yet?

    Like maybe you're preaching to the choir?

    You'll never convince any dedicated Steam fan to see this your way, one reason being they're already seriously invested in it and will defend it to the end.

    You can make your claims until you're blue in the face and not change a Steam fans opinion.

    Most of my actual resell-able games, I give to friends because I cannot recoup my investment anyway.

    If Steam did go under, provisions would have to be made, and are probably already in place, by Steam for game updates to be available that would allow offline use, or else not only would they go under, but the lawsuits would stretch to the moon, so that's really nothing to fear.

    Fortunately for you, no one is making you purchase games from Steam, unfortunately for you, there are some fantastic games coming, you'll only get through Steam.

    So, as it stands, thats just the way it is.

    My only complaint is not even Steams fault, I'm on a Satellite internet connection causing my ping rate to be too high to be able to play online smoothly, which causes lag in the game and ruins it for other players, but maybe one day we'll get cable out where we live.

    There are some really good things about Steam, like not having to track down game updates, or getting some special time limited game discount sale offers you'll never get off Ebay, or game file repairing capabilities.

    Also you can upgrade a HDD or build a completely new machine and all your games are at Steam waiting to be re downloaded and installed and you're back in business.

    So there are some really good things about Steam that IMO outweigh holding an Installation set of CDs or DVD in your hand that could actually go bad over time anyway and you have a handful of nothing.

    Carry on! :hello: 


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    January 21, 2010 6:41:17 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    Utterly bogus argument. You are giving up rights of purchase, your right of ownership, you meak little socialist/communist wimp.

    Wow, name calling over the internets? Your e-peen just grew 1.5 inches!

    "I dont know what a Troll is, besides a fictional character. "

    Troll (also known as Internet Troll) - In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

    On-topic: Tell you what - don't buy anything that's dependent on the Steam Client. Case closed. You can continue buying and reselling your precious games. I'll continue supporting Steam/Valve because I believe they are heading in the right direction against software piracy. You can think of it as an investment - I'll continue to put money into the company as long as they continue to come out with exciting games. Do I get any return with my investment? Hell yeah I do - it's called entertainment.

    @ 4ryan6 "Didn't Mythbusters successfully polish a turd?" - Check my first post in this thread, 9 posts above yours.
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    January 21, 2010 6:53:49 PM

    tpnp said:
    Wow, name calling over the internets?

    @ 4ryan6 "Didn't Mythbusters successfully polish a turd?" - Check my first post in this thread, 9 posts above yours.


    Sorry I missed that name calling and the Mythbusters turd polishing show! My Bad! :pfff: 
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    January 21, 2010 7:04:17 PM

    OneHumongousLoser said:
    "I'm actually very happy due to this process - this way the developers get their revenue in order to put back into producing better games for us. "

    Utterly bogus argument. You are giving up rights of purchase, your right of ownership, you meak little socialist/communist wimp.

    You paid for something, you should be the owner to resell as you want to.

    Does this mean you are also willing (and support):
    buying one car - and have to crunch it since you cannot resell it?
    buy one house - and never move because you cant resell it?
    etc. etc. etc.


    In short - buying anything - and never actually owning it? Sounds like you are.

    Fine, wake up one day with nothing to show for your hard work.



    You were holding your own until the insults entered into the picture, you've violated the forum Terms of Use which in this case gets you a 3 day vacation and your thread closed, when you come back make your points but leave the insults out of it. Ryan
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    November 5, 2010 10:08:10 AM

    By PM request of the OP, OneHumongousLoser, This topic has been reopen by 4ryan6
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    November 8, 2010 12:13:32 PM

    Ok, so I did some more investigation, bought more games on Steam, and came to the conclusion that Steam is the best way forward for keeping PC gaming alive, and that it is actually a very good service.

    I found that when they have their sales, the final price beats buying a game and reselling it. Also you get to keep the game (for all eternity).

    So, now i have like 15 games, and almost all were bought at huge discount, and I also feel good about keeping gaming alive by my money going to developers (who hopefully will have incentive to produce better games, improvement happens when money is the incentive).

    So, I would like to apologize to all that I may have insulted in the heat of the moment.

    Regards,
    1HumongousLoser
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    November 8, 2010 1:00:38 PM

    That's...

    That's like the best turnaround ever.
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    November 8, 2010 1:57:17 PM

    This is what happens when you believe something you know nothing about.

    OT: Steam rocks, but I still always check Amazon, esp. if it's not on sale.
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    November 8, 2010 3:52:49 PM

    4ryan6 Edit: Leave out the insults or action will be taken against you!

    you can make a separate account for every game you activate on steam. Hence the game is bound to a single login.

    Hence: you can now sell your games DIGITALLY without even using the freaking post office!
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