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Why Bone Spirit works so well, and other things

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Anonymous
August 12, 2005 12:43:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Anyone who has ever played a necromancer and pumped up Bone Spirit knows
that it seems to work better than the listed damage. There are 2 reasons for
this:

The first is obvious to all who play the game. There are VERY few magic
immune monsters in the game. Other than Greater Mummies in hell mode, and
one breed of zombies, NOTHING in the game is MI. But in reality, this is the
lesser reason.

The second and more relevant reason requires delving into the internal
monster tables to understand. Monsters can not only me immune to an attack
type, they can and are also resistant to it. For example, witches in the
throne room in hell mode are Cold Immune. That is easy to see, as they say
so. But Death Lords, who are not cold immune, have 50% Cold Resist. There
are monsters with high CR, FR, LR and PR. But no one is magic resistant, as
the game actually has no such feature. Yes, there are items which have MDR,
but that is not a resistance, that functions the same way as DR does.

Tip:

When doing the Maggot Lair, The stairs down will almost always be at the
point farthest away from the door you entered the level in. Maps in the ML
are built either along the X or the Y axis. You can determine which quickly
by looking for the first long hallway or form looking at the position of the
door you entered on in relationship to the rest of the map you have
uncovered. You can quickly see which direction is the 'long" side of the
level, and the door down to the next level will be on the farthest point
that way.

Observation 1:

There are new maps and layouts. There are now a couple of maps for WSK 2
that do not have the door to WSK3 on the right (there used to be only 1),
and there are 3 new layouts for the Frozen river, and at least one for the
Tamoe Highlands in which the Monastery is not facing the entry into the
Tamoe, but at a 90 degree angle to it. Much of this will make sense only to
those who are map aware in LoD.

Observation 2:

Spell change lag is about 5 times worse than it was at the time I stopped
playing, which was at the last reset. Whether this is a function of overall
performance of battle.net or has to do with the patch is yet to be
determined.

Observation 3:

Runes are dropping SLIGHTLY more often. I have also noted that the
percentage of runes which are garbage is also slightly lower. Does this mean
Zods are dropping like rain drops? No. But I have noted less ELs ELDs and
their ilk and more RAL and ORT and the like.

Lament:

Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that the
next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when to
use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are growing
up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys and
more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and just
talking to them, because this is truly absurd.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 12:43:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Mickey wrote:

> But no one is magic resistant, as the game actually has no such
> feature. Yes, there are items which have MDR, but that is not a
> resistance, that functions the same way as DR does.

I've got (or had rather, my char expired) a crafted safety shield with some
% magic resist...

It does exist in the game, but AFAIK that's the only item magic resist can
spawn on



--
*Jwh101010 sc USWest
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:21:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Mickey,

Thanks for the great info. I'm currently building a bonemancer. I've had a
nice skellimancer before and I took him to Guardian. I agree with you that
they are powerful and a lot of fun. I had a level 67 bonemancer with very
nice gear in last ladder but he died literally the night before the current
ladder (i.e. last Sunday night). So to see how they play in hell diff, I
started another. Oh, and in case it is not obvious, I play only hardcore.
But anyway, here is my question. Would you mind providing your thoughts on
the pros and cons of bonespear vs. bonespirit. Thanks.

G'day,

Jim

"Mickey" <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ZZidnWyMKO5QbWbfRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> Anyone who has ever played a necromancer and pumped up Bone Spirit knows
> that it seems to work better than the listed damage. There are 2 reasons
for
> this:
>
> The first is obvious to all who play the game. There are VERY few magic
> immune monsters in the game. Other than Greater Mummies in hell mode, and
> one breed of zombies, NOTHING in the game is MI. But in reality, this is
the
> lesser reason.
>
> The second and more relevant reason requires delving into the internal
> monster tables to understand. Monsters can not only me immune to an attack
> type, they can and are also resistant to it. For example, witches in the
> throne room in hell mode are Cold Immune. That is easy to see, as they say
> so. But Death Lords, who are not cold immune, have 50% Cold Resist. There
> are monsters with high CR, FR, LR and PR. But no one is magic resistant,
as
> the game actually has no such feature. Yes, there are items which have
MDR,
> but that is not a resistance, that functions the same way as DR does.
>
> Tip:
>
> When doing the Maggot Lair, The stairs down will almost always be at the
> point farthest away from the door you entered the level in. Maps in the ML
> are built either along the X or the Y axis. You can determine which
quickly
> by looking for the first long hallway or form looking at the position of
the
> door you entered on in relationship to the rest of the map you have
> uncovered. You can quickly see which direction is the 'long" side of the
> level, and the door down to the next level will be on the farthest point
> that way.
>
> Observation 1:
>
> There are new maps and layouts. There are now a couple of maps for WSK 2
> that do not have the door to WSK3 on the right (there used to be only 1),
> and there are 3 new layouts for the Frozen river, and at least one for the
> Tamoe Highlands in which the Monastery is not facing the entry into the
> Tamoe, but at a 90 degree angle to it. Much of this will make sense only
to
> those who are map aware in LoD.
>
> Observation 2:
>
> Spell change lag is about 5 times worse than it was at the time I stopped
> playing, which was at the last reset. Whether this is a function of
overall
> performance of battle.net or has to do with the patch is yet to be
> determined.
>
> Observation 3:
>
> Runes are dropping SLIGHTLY more often. I have also noted that the
> percentage of runes which are garbage is also slightly lower. Does this
mean
> Zods are dropping like rain drops? No. But I have noted less ELs ELDs and
> their ilk and more RAL and ORT and the like.
>
> Lament:
>
> Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that the
> next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when to
> use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
> Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are
growing
> up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys
and
> more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and just
> talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
>
> Mickey
>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 3:05:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"JH" <jwhams@comcast.net> wrote:

>Mickey wrote:
>
>> But no one is magic resistant, as the game actually has no such
>> feature. Yes, there are items which have MDR, but that is not a
>> resistance, that functions the same way as DR does.
>
>I've got (or had rather, my char expired) a crafted safety shield with some
>% magic resist...
>
>It does exist in the game, but AFAIK that's the only item magic resist can
>spawn on

One of my few serious complaints about 1.10 and 1.11 is that they did
not bring back some of the old crafting recipes or make new ones. I
enjoyed crafting and although you can still get some good items for
dueling if you do that (less now than in 1.09 because of some of the
more uber equipment out there) and caster boots/ammys can be of some
benefit, there just isn't that much to pick from. I had some awesome
crafted rings many many moons ago, I want them back, damn it!

--

Weretable and the Undead Chairs

USWest - weretable
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 3:45:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Jim Young" <noneayourbusiness@myob.net> wrote in message
news:CITKe.26346$Tt6.1400@fe04.lga...
> Mickey,
>
> Thanks for the great info. I'm currently building a bonemancer. I've had
a
> nice skellimancer before and I took him to Guardian. I agree with you
that
> they are powerful and a lot of fun. I had a level 67 bonemancer with very
> nice gear in last ladder but he died literally the night before the
current
> ladder (i.e. last Sunday night). So to see how they play in hell diff, I
> started another. Oh, and in case it is not obvious, I play only hardcore.
> But anyway, here is my question. Would you mind providing your thoughts
on
> the pros and cons of bonespear vs. bonespirit. Thanks.

Bone Spirit has 2 advantages. One is that it does more damage, the second is
that it is great for monsters than run away or teleport. Once you have
target lock, they can go where they like, it will hunt them down. Spear is
nice in close qaurters, but the fact that it can, if you are in the right
area, damage multiple monsters never really shines my shoes, as I have a
horde of mongols to do that. I use the BS to help drop that first corpse,
and to target the boss in a pack and take him out to save the minions the
damage from things like Holy Shock or LE. I also know that Spirit cannot be
blocked, I am not sure if the same is true for spear. I use Spirit mostly in
places that have packs of knights. My horde will always focus on the Doom
Knights, but the Oblivion Knight will always hang kac, so I do the honors
and let the pack handle the rest.

Mickey

>
> G'day,
>
> Jim
>
> "Mickey" <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:ZZidnWyMKO5QbWbfRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
> > Anyone who has ever played a necromancer and pumped up Bone Spirit knows
> > that it seems to work better than the listed damage. There are 2 reasons
> for
> > this:
> >
> > The first is obvious to all who play the game. There are VERY few magic
> > immune monsters in the game. Other than Greater Mummies in hell mode,
and
> > one breed of zombies, NOTHING in the game is MI. But in reality, this is
> the
> > lesser reason.
> >
> > The second and more relevant reason requires delving into the internal
> > monster tables to understand. Monsters can not only me immune to an
attack
> > type, they can and are also resistant to it. For example, witches in the
> > throne room in hell mode are Cold Immune. That is easy to see, as they
say
> > so. But Death Lords, who are not cold immune, have 50% Cold Resist.
There
> > are monsters with high CR, FR, LR and PR. But no one is magic resistant,
> as
> > the game actually has no such feature. Yes, there are items which have
> MDR,
> > but that is not a resistance, that functions the same way as DR does.
> >
> > Tip:
> >
> > When doing the Maggot Lair, The stairs down will almost always be at the
> > point farthest away from the door you entered the level in. Maps in the
ML
> > are built either along the X or the Y axis. You can determine which
> quickly
> > by looking for the first long hallway or form looking at the position of
> the
> > door you entered on in relationship to the rest of the map you have
> > uncovered. You can quickly see which direction is the 'long" side of the
> > level, and the door down to the next level will be on the farthest point
> > that way.
> >
> > Observation 1:
> >
> > There are new maps and layouts. There are now a couple of maps for WSK 2
> > that do not have the door to WSK3 on the right (there used to be only
1),
> > and there are 3 new layouts for the Frozen river, and at least one for
the
> > Tamoe Highlands in which the Monastery is not facing the entry into the
> > Tamoe, but at a 90 degree angle to it. Much of this will make sense only
> to
> > those who are map aware in LoD.
> >
> > Observation 2:
> >
> > Spell change lag is about 5 times worse than it was at the time I
stopped
> > playing, which was at the last reset. Whether this is a function of
> overall
> > performance of battle.net or has to do with the patch is yet to be
> > determined.
> >
> > Observation 3:
> >
> > Runes are dropping SLIGHTLY more often. I have also noted that the
> > percentage of runes which are garbage is also slightly lower. Does this
> mean
> > Zods are dropping like rain drops? No. But I have noted less ELs ELDs
and
> > their ilk and more RAL and ORT and the like.
> >
> > Lament:
> >
> > Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that
the
> > next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when
to
> > use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
> > Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are
> growing
> > up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys
> and
> > more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and
just
> > talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
> >
> > Mickey
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 3:45:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:34mdndG8CbvqhmHfRVn-uw@comcast.com...
> I also know that Spirit cannot be
> blocked, I am not sure if the same is true for spear.

Spirit, Spear, and Teeth are all unblockable. The one exception is assassin
claw block, which can block all three.

> Mickey
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 9:42:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, "Mickey" wrote:

>> Lament:
>>
>> Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that the
>> next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when to
>> use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
>> Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are growing
>> up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys and
>> more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and just
>> talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
>>
>> Mickey

As a father of 6 children, daddy to 8, I feel you pain intensely.

Spelling and grammar corrections are foolish provocation of (young)
people who are Too Hip to care about the difference between 'u' and
'you'. The difference between "your" and "you're" belong to the same
stratospheric geeklyness that cares about the relationship between
acceleration and jerk.

WAY too many people act like they were raised by a loud T.V.
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 1:34:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Brian Brunner" <brian.brunner@verizon.net.prophet> schreef in bericht
news:lidof1106fcu28g47u5u17e9cngf83btor@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, "Mickey" wrote:
>
>>> Lament:
>>>
>>> Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that
>>> the
>>> next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when
>>> to
>>> use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
>>> Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are
>>> growing
>>> up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys
>>> and
>>> more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and
>>> just
>>> talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
>>>
>>> Mickey
>
> As a father of 6 children, daddy to 8, I feel you pain intensely.
>
> Spelling and grammar corrections are foolish provocation of (young)
> people who are Too Hip to care about the difference between 'u' and
> 'you'. The difference between "your" and "you're" belong to the same
> stratospheric geeklyness that cares about the relationship between
> acceleration and jerk.
>
> WAY too many people act like they were raised by a loud T.V.

You should realise that the public games are also open for the rest of the
world.
So, you will encounter (young) players for whom english is not their native
language.
Try to point out their mistakes and be patient with them.

Jan (player from Holland)
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 1:34:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Jan Lok" <fam_lok@versatel.nl> wrote in message
news:4c591$42fc5110$513bb0c2$19821@news.versatel.nl...
> You should realise that the public games are also open for the rest of the
> world.
> So, you will encounter (young) players for whom english is not their
native
> language.
> Try to point out their mistakes and be patient with them.

I've spoken to many players for whom English is not their native language.
They still know the difference between "you" and "u", "any" and "ne", and
"your" and "ur" for example.

> Jan (player from Holland)
>
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 1:34:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Jan Lok" <fam_lok@versatel.nl> wrote in message
news:4c591$42fc5110$513bb0c2$19821@news.versatel.nl...
>
> "Brian Brunner" <brian.brunner@verizon.net.prophet> schreef in bericht
> news:lidof1106fcu28g47u5u17e9cngf83btor@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, "Mickey" wrote:
> >
> >>> Lament:
> >>>
> >>> Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that
> >>> the
> >>> next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell
when
> >>> to
> >>> use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become
depressed.
> >>> Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are
> >>> growing
> >>> up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying
toys
> >>> and
> >>> more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and
> >>> just
> >>> talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
> >>>
> >>> Mickey
> >
> > As a father of 6 children, daddy to 8, I feel you pain intensely.
> >
> > Spelling and grammar corrections are foolish provocation of (young)
> > people who are Too Hip to care about the difference between 'u' and
> > 'you'. The difference between "your" and "you're" belong to the same
> > stratospheric geeklyness that cares about the relationship between
> > acceleration and jerk.
> >
> > WAY too many people act like they were raised by a loud T.V.
>
> You should realise that the public games are also open for the rest of the
> world.
> So, you will encounter (young) players for whom english is not their
native
> language.
> Try to point out their mistakes and be patient with them.
>
> Jan (player from Holland)

And if this were the case, I'd never say a word. However, 98% of those on
USWest who play the public games or are on the public channels are American.
Frank, who used to play and post here, and who is from Amsterdam used to
worry about his command of English when he decided to come to the states for
a while and work. I always laughed, telling him that his English was better
than most Americans..... and it was.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 1:54:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Excellent post.

So is this your MeatGrinder necro with maxed BSpirit? Any synergies pumped?

Rod
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:07:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

> Lament:
>
> Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that the
> next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when to
> use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
> Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are
> growing
> up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys
> and
> more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and just
> talking to them, because this is truly absurd.

/Rant on

Yes, and sadly it's even worse from a "moral" point of view. I've learned
to never trust anyone on battlenet now. Which is too bad. I built a rocket
sorc and when the new patch came she was perfect for the role of gathering
keys. So I'd gather sets of keys and sell them for items.

First sell was for BER (I knew it was too good to be true) and of course
it was a dupe.

Next sell was for CHAM, VEX, IST -- turned out they were real. But then
got scammed for my CHAM because I did the silly wall run trade in Act I for
a torch. Same thing happened a few days later and I lost 3 keys (not a big
deal considering how fast I can get them). Ran into the same guy 10 minutes
later (after recovering 2 of my lost keys) to trade a terror for a
desctruction key. He put a hate in the trade window and I refused. He
clicked to trade again and put the right key up so I took the trade. Then I
called him on it and further said that I had already recovered the keys he
had stolen from me. He types "wut?'...... I LOL'd and left.

/Rant off

Rod
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:59:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:ZZidnWyMKO5QbWbfRVn-rQ@comcast.com...

> Observation 3:
>
> Runes are dropping SLIGHTLY more often. I have also noted that the
> percentage of runes which are garbage is also slightly lower. Does this
mean
> Zods are dropping like rain drops? No. But I have noted less ELs ELDs and
> their ilk and more RAL and ORT and the like.

I'll agree to a point, to my experience they are dropping quite a bit
better, I had a Dol rune drop in the middle of normal, and had never seen
one drop from a monster earlier than the middle of nightmare.

The countess in normal seems to drop her normal quantity and type of rune,
it is the random monster drops that are more frequent and better.

I was able to make leaf before I did the soldiers quest, and multiple
stealth armors.
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 5:12:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Rod Runnheim" <rodr@lmcg.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:D did6e$pts$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
> Excellent post.
>
> So is this your MeatGrinder necro with maxed BSpirit? Any synergies
pumped?

No, I use BS for 2 purposes, to take down that first corpse when I solo, and
to target lock bosses that tend to leave. Today, while running the pit, I
must have taken out at least 20 boss Dark Archers who ran away, but couldn't
outrun the BS.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 5:14:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Rod Runnheim" <rodr@lmcg.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:D die07$q6o$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
> > Lament:
> >
> > Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that
the
> > next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when
to
> > use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
> > Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are
> > growing
> > up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys
> > and
> > more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and
just
> > talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
>
> /Rant on
>
> Yes, and sadly it's even worse from a "moral" point of view. I've
learned
> to never trust anyone on battlenet now. Which is too bad. I built a
rocket
> sorc and when the new patch came she was perfect for the role of gathering
> keys. So I'd gather sets of keys and sell them for items.
>
> First sell was for BER (I knew it was too good to be true) and of
course
> it was a dupe.
>
> Next sell was for CHAM, VEX, IST -- turned out they were real. But
then
> got scammed for my CHAM because I did the silly wall run trade in Act I
for
> a torch. Same thing happened a few days later and I lost 3 keys (not a
big
> deal considering how fast I can get them). Ran into the same guy 10
minutes
> later (after recovering 2 of my lost keys) to trade a terror for a
> desctruction key. He put a hate in the trade window and I refused. He
> clicked to trade again and put the right key up so I took the trade. Then
I
> called him on it and further said that I had already recovered the keys he
> had stolen from me. He types "wut?'...... I LOL'd and left.
>
> /Rant off

It is sad, isn't it? One can start to feel like Diogenes, looking for one
good man. Sadly, the game didn't come with a lamp.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 7:19:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:12:53 -0400, "Mickey"
<mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote:

>No, I use BS for 2 purposes, to take down that first corpse when I solo, and
>to target lock bosses that tend to leave. Today, while running the pit, I
>must have taken out at least 20 boss Dark Archers who ran away, but couldn't
>outrun the BS.
>
>Mickey
>

It is effective... there are times when my wife nags me, and try as I
might, I can't outrun the "BS". ;-)

Guy
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 7:19:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Guy Smiley" <email@email.com> wrote in message
news:70qpf1pcb84tkefrdmubbbl93t8hi691fk@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:12:53 -0400, "Mickey"
> <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote:
>
> >No, I use BS for 2 purposes, to take down that first corpse when I solo,
and
> >to target lock bosses that tend to leave. Today, while running the pit, I
> >must have taken out at least 20 boss Dark Archers who ran away, but
couldn't
> >outrun the BS.
> >
> >Mickey
> >
>
> It is effective... there are times when my wife nags me, and try as I
> might, I can't outrun the "BS". ;-)

I was waiting......

Mickey
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 10:35:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

While pondering glazed doughnuts Guy Smiley <email@email.com> mistakenly typed
:
: On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:12:53 -0400, "Mickey"
: <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote:
:
:>No, I use BS for 2 purposes, to take down that first corpse when I solo, and
:>to target lock bosses that tend to leave. Today, while running the pit, I
:>must have taken out at least 20 boss Dark Archers who ran away, but couldn't
:>outrun the BS.
:>
:>Mickey
:>
:
: It is effective... there are times when my wife nags me, and try as I
: might, I can't outrun the "BS". ;-)
:

As you've noticed it has infinite range.
-dave
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 3:23:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On that special day, Mickey, (mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net) said...

> It is sad, isn't it? One can start to feel like Diogenes, looking for one
> good man. Sadly, the game didn't come with a lamp.

Diogenes was the guy in the barrel, who told Alexander to step out of
the sun. The lamp guy was So"I know, that I don't know"crates.


Gabriele "too much interested in antics, er, antiquities" Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:26:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fd42fd$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Mickey wrote:
> > And if this were the case, I'd never say a word. However, 98% of
> > those on USWest who play the public games or are on the public
> > channels are American. Frank, who used to play and post here, and who
> > is from Amsterdam used to worry about his command of English when he
> > decided to come to the states for a while and work. I always laughed,
> > telling him that his English was better than most Americans..... and
> > it was.
>
> I have a Ukrainian friend who resides in NYC who is the same. He visits
most
> years for a couple weeks during the NZ summer (NYC winter). In fact the
> spare room is now refered to as "Vitaliy's room". I met him on a NG. He's
> paranoid about his command of the English language. In fact he speaks
better
> than most native English-speakers I know. Now, his accent, that's a
> different story. :-) It took me two days in his company to be able to
> understand him on-the-fly, not have to pause after each statement and
think
> it through to work out what he was saying. I think that is the source of
his
> paranoia (or at least any communication problems he may have) although he
> says it's the language itself.

See, and I wouldn't have even realized he had an accent. I had so many
people speaking so many European and Middle Eastern languages around me
growing up, I do not hear their accents.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:29:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Gabriele Neukam" <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:D dj3u7$a8b$05$1@news.t-online.com...
> On that special day, Mickey, (mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net) said...
>
> > It is sad, isn't it? One can start to feel like Diogenes, looking for
one
> > good man. Sadly, the game didn't come with a lamp.
>
> Diogenes was the guy in the barrel, who told Alexander to step out of
> the sun. The lamp guy was So"I know, that I don't know"crates.
>
>
> Gabriele "too much interested in antics, er, antiquities" Neukam

Sorry dear, but in this case, you are simply incorrect. Diogenes of Sinope
was a philosopher from Greece who walked the streets of Athens with his lamp
looking for one honest man.

For further reference:

http://members.tripod.com/~Diogenes_MacLugh/diogenes.ht...

Mickey
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:31:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fd444d$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Mickey wrote:
> > Anyone who has ever played a necromancer and pumped up Bone Spirit
> > knows that it seems to work better than the listed damage. There are
> > 2 reasons for this:
> >
> > The first is obvious to all who play the game. There are VERY few
> > magic immune monsters in the game. Other than Greater Mummies in hell
> > mode, and one breed of zombies, NOTHING in the game is MI.
>
> You forget the Wailing Beasts in some of the Ruined Temple-type places in
> Kurast. Sorry to be pedantic. Also the new quintuple immunes in Uber
> Tristram.

Yes, but they are in temples people only go into on a whim, and as actually
special critters, as theya re the same base type as the similar critters in
that can spawnin those areas, but with special mods, just to make those
areas interesting. BTW, taht is a remnant left over from the BETA, in which
you could ONLY find elite items in those odd, underground areas.

>
> Excellent post BTW. :-)

Thanks kindly.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:31:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:IpadnZ2dnZ0EnYnjnZ2dnUPqYN-dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@comcast.com...

> > You forget the Wailing Beasts in some of the Ruined Temple-type places
in
> > Kurast. Sorry to be pedantic. Also the new quintuple immunes in Uber
> > Tristram.
>
> Yes, but they are in temples people only go into on a whim,

Well, or to get an extra 5 stat points from Lam Esen's tome.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 7:58:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fda8d9$1@news.orcon.net.nz...

> LOL. Snap! At almost exactly the same time, within a minute of each other
if
> both of our PC clocks are right.

Heh, great minds think alike.

> --
> ~misfit~
>
>
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 12:01:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net> wrote in message
news:D kfLe.4572$F_7.3644@fe06.lga...
>
> "Mickey" <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:IpadnZ2dnZ0EnYnjnZ2dnUPqYN-dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@comcast.com...
>
> > > You forget the Wailing Beasts in some of the Ruined Temple-type places
> in
> > > Kurast. Sorry to be pedantic. Also the new quintuple immunes in Uber
> > > Tristram.
> >
> > Yes, but they are in temples people only go into on a whim,
>
> Well, or to get an extra 5 stat points from Lam Esen's tome.

I have never seen the wailing beasts in the Ruined Temple. They are in
Forgotten Reliquary and the 2 in the Kurast Causeway. The Ruined Temple has
the Rogues, Ghouls and Arachs.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 12:04:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fd846d$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Mickey wrote:
> > See, and I wouldn't have even realized he had an accent. I had so many
> > people speaking so many European and Middle Eastern languages around
> > me growing up, I do not hear their accents.
>
> Yeah. I'm actually quite good with accents as well. I grew up in England
and
> there are so many different regional dialects that you *have* to be good.
> Some of them are almost a seperate language in themselves. However Vitaliy
> was the first person with a strong Ukranian accent I'd had occaision to
talk
> with and I'm not as young and quick as I used to be. :-)

Ukrainian accents, like all Slavic accents require developing an ear. Once
you have, you can understand them quite easily. The only accent I have
trouble is that of people from India, and I suspect a major part of that is
that they speak very quickly.

Mickey
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fe099f$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Mickey wrote:
> > "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:42fd846d$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> >> Mickey wrote:
> >>> See, and I wouldn't have even realized he had an accent. I had so
> >>> many people speaking so many European and Middle Eastern languages
> >>> around me growing up, I do not hear their accents.
> >>
> >> Yeah. I'm actually quite good with accents as well. I grew up in
> >> England and there are so many different regional dialects that you
> >> *have* to be good. Some of them are almost a seperate language in
> >> themselves. However Vitaliy was the first person with a strong
> >> Ukranian accent I'd had occaision to talk with and I'm not as young
> >> and quick as I used to be. :-)
> >
> > Ukrainian accents, like all Slavic accents require developing an ear.
> > Once you have, you can understand them quite easily. The only accent
> > I have trouble is that of people from India, and I suspect a major
> > part of that is that they speak very quickly.
>
> That sounds right. Vitaliy didn't talk a lot when he first arrived. He was
> jet-lagged and exhausted after a 14-hour lay-over at LAX as well as the
> flight itself. (I think the fact that he *was* so tired may have made his
> accent more pronounced too) However, once he'd rested and we got to
talking
> everything was fine. I understand him perfectly now. However that first
day
> was difficult, especially when I was driving him back from Auckland
airport
> and trying to talk with him at the same time.
>
> Indian accents I have no trouble with. This area of New Zealand I live in
> has the highest proportion of Indian immigrants of the whole country. (The
> town just up the road is even called Bombay). It's a major market-garden
> area and for some reason it seems that virtually all the vegetable
producers
> are of Indian extraction.

Anyone speaking in a language other than their native tongue gets a much
more pronounced accent when they are tired. Annunciation is hard work :) 

Mickey
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 7:10:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fe0b11$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> I'm probably wrong but I have a vague recollection of seeing them in there
> once.

I've seen them in there too.

> --
> ~misfit~
>
>
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 9:27:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Mickey wrote:

> Lament:
>
> Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that the
> next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when to
> use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
> Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are growing
> up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys and
> more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and just
> talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
>
> Mickey

It's not the spelling that bothers me so much. I make many errors
myself trying to type in the heat of gameplay, so I can forgive
that.


However....

It would be nice as a parent to get some re-enforcement from
school teachers in regard to spelling and grammar. I can't tell
you of all the countless times I've had to re-educate
my kids after they come home from school with announcements in
hand that contained many basic errors and misspellings.

I'm a house-dad myself and have worked hard the past 18 years
to see that my kids get every advantage possible. Of
course that has meant no expensive vacations, no new cars,
no cell phones and all the other goodies some parents seem
to be working so hard to provide for their kids, so your
message is well received by me.

What I really find lamentable is the lack of chivalry, common decency,
and regard for fellow players. It's this that does not bode well for
future generations. Those are things that should be taught by
schools and parents as well.

mike
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 11:22:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On that special day, Mickey, (mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net) said...

> Sorry dear, but in this case, you are simply incorrect. Diogenes of Sinope
> was a philosopher from Greece who walked the streets of Athens with his lamp
> looking for one honest man.
>
> For further reference:
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~Diogenes_MacLugh/diogenes.ht...

I stand corrected.


Gabriele "been living with dogs for 35 years" Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 11:55:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Mickey <mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net> wrote:

> Sorry dear, but in this case, you are simply incorrect. Diogenes of Sinope
> was a philosopher from Greece who walked the streets of Athens with his lamp
> looking for one honest man.
>
> For further reference:
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~Diogenes_MacLugh/diogenes.ht...

everyone is right on this one:

<http://sangha.net/messengers/alexander/quotes.htm&gt;
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 2:21:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fe9307@news.orcon.net.nz...
> ~misfit~ wrote:
> > Mickey wrote:
> >> Anyone speaking in a language other than their native tongue gets a
> >> much more pronounced accent when they are tired. Annunciation is hard
> >> work :) 
> >
> > Yeah, I figured that. He has only been an English speaker for less
> > than 10 years, he lived in Ukrania
>
> That doesn't look right huh? I guess it's The Ukraine? Damn ignorant
misfit!

Actually, it's just Ukraine. As in, he was born in Ukraine :) 

Max has instructed me :) 

Mickey
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 7:56:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:34:39 +0200, "Jan Lok" <fam_lok@versatel.nl>
wrote:

>>
>> "Brian Brunner" <brian.brunner@verizon.net.prophet> schreef in bericht
>> news:lidof1106fcu28g47u5u17e9cngf83btor@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, "Mickey" wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Lament:
>> >>>
>> >>> Playing public games is somewhat depressing for me. When I think that
>> >>> the
>> >>> next generation, the one we will turn this all over to cannot tell when
>> >>> to
>> >>> use "where" or "wear", "there" "their" or "they're", I become depressed.
>> >>> Where are the parents here? Do the not know that their children are
>> >>> growing
>> >>> up illiterate? Maybe they should spend less time working and buying toys
>> >>> and
>> >>> more time actually being with their children, reading wi th them, and
>> >>> just
>> >>> talking to them, because this is truly absurd.
>> >>>
>> >>> Mickey
>> >
>> > As a father of 6 children, daddy to 8, I feel you pain intensely.
>> >
>> > Spelling and grammar corrections are foolish provocation of (young)
>> > people who are Too Hip to care about the difference between 'u' and
>> > 'you'. The difference between "your" and "you're" belong to the same
>> > stratospheric geeklyness that cares about the relationship between
>> > acceleration and jerk.
>> >
>> > WAY too many people act like they were raised by a loud T.V.
>>
>> You should realise that the public games are ...

not the context of my comment... I'm speaking expressly of posts in
newsgroups.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 8:00:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005, "Mickey" wrote:

>> See, and I wouldn't have even realized he had an accent. I had so many
>> people speaking so many European and Middle Eastern languages around me
>> growing up, I do not hear their accents.

and this returns to the central point (IMHO): It's not the grasp of the
language, it's the attitude that if WE don't understand, it's not THEIR
problem; however they mutilate the language is fine with us, or WE have
a problem. Loud T.V.'s don't care either, neither about the volume nor
the programming. They just ...

Thus my acerbic observations about people acting like they were raised
by a loud TV.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 9:33:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:44:34 +1200, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz>
wrote:

>> Mickey wrote:
>> > "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
>> > news:42fe9307@news.orcon.net.nz...
>> >> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> >>> Mickey wrote:
>> >>>> Anyone speaking in a language other than their native tongue gets a
>> >>>> much more pronounced accent when they are tired. Annunciation is
>> >>>> hard work :) 
>> >>>
>> >>> Yeah, I figured that. He has only been an English speaker for less
>> >>> than 10 years, he lived in Ukrania
>> >>
>> >> That doesn't look right huh? I guess it's The Ukraine? Damn ignorant
>> >> misfit!
>> >
>> > Actually, it's just Ukraine. As in, he was born in Ukraine :) 
>> >
>> > Max has instructed me :) 
>>
>> Thanks, I've never been sure. Everyone always seems to say *the* Ukraine for
>> some reason.

It's natural for people thinking in languages with articles like "the".

Russian and Ukrainian don't have such articles.

"Problem with language is people think their language is full definition
of language; that other languages are only different in detail, not in
principle." This reads like bad English, or (somewhat) like a
Slavic-speaker thinking in their Slavic language and translating
on-the-fly to English.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 1:08:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Brian Brunner" <brian.brunner@verizon.net.prophet> wrote in message
news:3oltf1ha9j89gaci5n0rlp4gktfk3p6kid@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:44:34 +1200, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> >> Mickey wrote:
> >> > "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
> >> > news:42fe9307@news.orcon.net.nz...
> >> >> ~misfit~ wrote:
> >> >>> Mickey wrote:
> >> >>>> Anyone speaking in a language other than their native tongue gets
a
> >> >>>> much more pronounced accent when they are tired. Annunciation is
> >> >>>> hard work :) 
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Yeah, I figured that. He has only been an English speaker for less
> >> >>> than 10 years, he lived in Ukrania
> >> >>
> >> >> That doesn't look right huh? I guess it's The Ukraine? Damn ignorant
> >> >> misfit!
> >> >
> >> > Actually, it's just Ukraine. As in, he was born in Ukraine :) 
> >> >
> >> > Max has instructed me :) 
> >>
> >> Thanks, I've never been sure. Everyone always seems to say *the*
Ukraine for
> >> some reason.
>
> It's natural for people thinking in languages with articles like "the".
>
> Russian and Ukrainian don't have such articles.
>
> "Problem with language is people think their language is full definition
> of language; that other languages are only different in detail, not in
> principle." This reads like bad English, or (somewhat) like a
> Slavic-speaker thinking in their Slavic language and translating
> on-the-fly to English.

Yes, as someone for whom English is a 3rd language, I first learned to
translate into English, and quite some time later, to think in it :) 

Mickey
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 1:12:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fecc5d@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Mickey wrote:
> > Exactly my point. If a person/couple is NOT willing to give up that
> > which they must to be good parents, they should not be parents at
> > all. There is no job, I repeat for the hearing impaired, NO JOB ON
> > EARTH as important as being a parent.
>
> I agree with the above statement 100%. Probably why I don't have any
> children, I've been too particular about making sure of a stable
environment
> first and haven't found one to my satisfation. Probably a mistake.
>
> > You know, no matter HOW much
> > money you make, no matter HOW many toys you annex, when it is all
> > said and done, and teh party has ended, your children are all you
> > really leave behind. One day, even Shakespear's work will be
> > forgotten, but my genes will still be in the pool.
>
> I envy you my friend. I've always maintained that the ONLY thing you
> absolutely have to do right in this life is raise your children well. In
> fact, as you say, when the curtain drops, all that's left is your
> contribution to the gene pool and how well you have raised them.
>
> I'd love to have children but, alas, at ny age it probably isn't going to
> happen now. I'd be too old to be there for them when they are going to
> sports and so on. However I've had more than one phonecall from other
> people's children, people who I've lost touch with, on 21st's etc.
thanking
> me for being there for them when it counted. I content myself with that.

That's not true. One of the best fathers I know didn't have his first child
until he was in his early 50s. The joke he tells is that he will have to
stop by the social security office to pick up his check before dropping the
kids off at school. It isn't how old you are, it's how old you act, and how
much you interact. In certain ways, males do better as parents with age, as
they are less impatient and more willing to spend time doing kid things.
When Jake (my 10 year old) wants to ramble on for 30 minutes about his
PokeMon game, I can now actually tolerate it. 25 years ago, I think I would
have gone ballistic :) 

Mickey
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 9:39:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On that special day, Mickey, (mickeySPAMb@SPAMcomcastSPAM.net) said...

> > It would be nice as a parent to get some re-enforcement from
> > school teachers in regard to spelling and grammar. I can't tell
> > you of all the countless times I've had to re-educate
> > my kids after they come home from school with announcements in
> > hand that contained many basic errors and misspellings.
>
> I had that happen once, my child was out of that class the next day.
> Ignorance cannot be a teacher.

There was no alternative school there for *me*. Luckily, I had the
opportunity to learn a better German outside school, as my parents had
several dozens of books. My mother was enraged when she found out that
the "german" teacher in fact had recited a dictate in pure southwestern
idiom, and went to the secretary, making a big fuss. The teacher left
our class several weeks later, but I can't tell if it was for that
reason.

At least the next teacher was a lot better. But she had a hard time,
making up for the neglects of the former, who didn't care much for the
boys, either.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 12:36:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42ffeff5$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Mickey wrote:
> > That's not true. One of the best fathers I know didn't have his first
> > child until he was in his early 50s.
>
> Ok, that's heartening. Other than age though I have a compression fracture
> of the vertabae and pinched nerves (radiculopathy) which leaves me very
> limited in what I can do. My orthopaedic surgeon says it's degenerative
now
> so 'tis not good....

Bah, irrelevant. I have met great parents who are in wheelchairs. Being a
great parent isn't a matter of how you get it done, it's a matter of what
you do.

>
> > The joke he tells is that he
> > will have to stop by the social security office to pick up his check
> > before dropping the kids off at school. It isn't how old you are,
> > it's how old you act, and how much you interact.
>
> I agree totally. I get on well with kids of all ages, talk to them as
people
> rather than talk down to them and listen when they have something to say.
> I've been like that since I was a kid myself. Several people have
commented
> that I'm a born teacher. However that's not my bag, I'm better one-on-one
> (or one-on-two/three) and wouldn't handle large (20+) groups well. Others
> have mentioned I should get into the field of child psychology.
Personally,
> I'd rather just raise a family.

Then do so. The world needs more good, dedicated parents. When Whitni and I
were starting out, we had no money, and I wasn't asking any family for help,
as I was determined to make it on my own. When our eldest twins were 3, they
learned all about Christmas, Hanukkah and presents. For 4 months prior to
the holiday season, I skipped lunch (unbeknownst to anyone) and pocketed the
$3. The week before the holidays, I took my $140 I have saved and bought
lots of little presents for them. These are the kinds of sacrifices REAL
parents make, and rather than feel put upon for making them, doing so makes
them feel GOOD.

>
> > In certain ways,
> > males do better as parents with age, as they are less impatient and
> > more willing to spend time doing kid things.
>
> I have no personal or anecdotal experience to comment on this observation.
> :-)

I do as I had kids when I was young and kids when I was not so young. I am a
beter parent today then I was then. Part of it can be chalked up to
experience, but for the most part, it is the change in temperment that comes
with age that makes the bulk of the difference.

>
> > When Jake (my 10 year
> > old) wants to ramble on for 30 minutes about his PokeMon game, I can
> > now actually tolerate it. 25 years ago, I think I would have gone
> > ballistic :) 
>
> I've always been patient with kids. Funny really as, in the rest of my
life,
> I can be quite impatient. (Relatively).

With some things, I have endless patience (kids, MFing, etc), and with some,
I have no patience (ignorance, racism, laziness).

>
> Thanks for the reply Mickey. Now I've just got to find myself a mother for
> my children as I have recently become single again after five years. *And*
> I'm really picky. I was single by choice for nearly a decade previous to
> that relationship.

A bad relationship is FAR worse than no relationship :) 

Mickey
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 12:31:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ wrote on Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:56:54 +1200:
> Mickey wrote:
> > "Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:D kfLe.4572$F_7.3644@fe06.lga...

[magic-immune wailing beasts and where they are found]

> >> Well, or to get an extra 5 stat points from Lam Esen's tome.
> >
> > I have never seen the wailing beasts in the Ruined Temple. They are in
> > Forgotten Reliquary and the 2 in the Kurast Causeway. The Ruined
> > Temple has the Rogues, Ghouls and Arachs.
>
> I'm probably wrong but I have a vague recollection of seeing them in there
> once.

In the last two days, my hammeradin has visited the temple five times:
once in normal, once in NM, and three times in Hell (my first two tries,
the stairs were trapped).

Each of those times, the temple contained Wailing Beasts. In NM, they
seemed to be heavily magic resistant. In Hell, they were magic immune.


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork
!