Upgrade advice for aging motherboard

[Titanion]

My friend has an old computer that he wants to upgrade. Where and how bad are his bottlenecks? …XP Pro… Matsonic 8308 [i.e. 266fsb] with an a Palomino 1900+, an ATI 9100 128MB video card, a 30 GB HDD, and 384 MB of PC133 ram. His motherboard does not support DDR; he is stuck with PC133. My plan is to get him a 2400+ cpu and a second stick of 256 MB of ram, getting his total to 512 mb… he has only 2 ram slots. I would also like to get him an ATI 9600 128MB video card.

He would

1. go from 1.6 to 2.0 GHz
2. go from 384 to 512 MB in ram
3. go fron an ATI 9100 to an ATI 9600

A new motherboard for him would mean new ram, new psu, and perhaps other new parts as well… and there is a limited budged. So at this point, I would rather not do that… Will he be able to notice these three upgrades?


<font color=red><b>To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n.</b></font color=red>
John Milton, <i>Paradise Lost</i>, II 262-263

 

[vagabond]

You're still choking the CPU and GPU with PC133 RAM. I wouldn't upgrade until he can afford a new mobo.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=23810" target="_new"><font color=blue>My System </font color=blue></A>
<b><font color=blue>VAGABOND<font color=blue></b>

<b><font color=blue>Just horsing around!!!<font color=blue></b>

 

[Titanion]

I think I have a way of swapping his PC133 ram into anlther computer and freeing up 512 MB of PC2100 ram...

If I got a new ABIT board, for example, and a Barton 2500+, could it be stable with ram at 266 and the cpu at 400? Would that be nuts or the way to do it, if he wanted to use the PC2100 ram? Or, it could be ram at 266 and cpu at 333.

<font color=red><b>To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n.</b></font color=red>
John Milton, <i>Paradise Lost</i>, II 262-263

 

[vagabond]

If you're going to upgrade to PC 2100 RAM then I would recommend the K7S5A Pro mobo from ECS. It has the SiS 735 chipset that can use either PC 100, 133 SD-RAM or PC 2100 DDR-RAM. This mobo can handle up to 2600+ @ 266.

If you go Abit then the one with the NForce chipset.

As far as the GPU I'd recommend the 9600 Pro if he can afford it. Make sure that the PSU can handle all this upgrading.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=23810" target="_new"><font color=blue>My System </font color=blue></A>
<b><font color=blue>VAGABOND<font color=blue></b>

<b><font color=blue>Just horsing around!!!<font color=blue></b>

 

[Titanion]

I am getting a board for his wife's computer that has both 133 and 2100 ram slots... I would move the 133 ram to her computer and the 2100 to his... so I think the ABIT would be a better idea... for the future when he want to get some PC3200 ram.

I was looking at the ABIT Nforce SPP at newegg for 69.99

I just hate the idea of getting a Barton going at 200fsb and having the PC2100 ram going at 133.

<font color=red><b>To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n.</b></font color=red>
John Milton, <i>Paradise Lost</i>, II 262-263

 

[vagabond]

Ok now it's clear to me what you want to do. Yeah I know what you mean. I wouldn't want to underclock either. Sounds good to me.

You've got your work cut out for you. Have fun!!!

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=23810" target="_new"><font color=blue>My System </font color=blue></A>
<b><font color=blue>VAGABOND<font color=blue></b>

<b><font color=blue>Just horsing around!!!<font color=blue></b>

 

[Prof133]

I just hate the idea of getting a Barton going at 200fsb and having the PC2100 ram going at 133.

Latency increase associated with async FSB/MCLK (memory clock). Sync FSB/MCLK highly recommended for this kind of system. Go with the highest obtainable sync FSB/MCLK value with stability and good memory timings.

 

[Titanion]

Yikes, even if the fsb speed is 133? I know a Barton can do that, for I currently have one running at 16.5x134=2211, but on a board capable of doing a fsb of 200+, that is tough. But when he does get better ram, then he can do 200/200 and rock, I guess.

BTW, my soyo board has my Barton scores better on 3DMark2001SE with my ram at 167 than at 134, with my Barton at 134. I never tested 3DMark2003 both ways, but I assume it is the same... my board only supports ram at 333, not cpu.

<font color=red><b>To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n.</b></font color=red>
John Milton, <i>Paradise Lost</i>, II 262-263

 

[Prof133]

I was looking at the ABIT Nforce SPP at newegg for 69.99

Good explanation <A HREF="http://www.mbreview.com/nf7m-3.php" target="_new">here</A>:

Well, why exactly does the nForce2 platform allow for maximum performance when the FSB and Memory Clock run at the same speeds? Shouldn’t DDR333 provide a higher level of performance, and so forth with DDR400? Well, to put it plainly, no. When the CPU FSB and Memory Clock are running at the same speed, the CPU Read Latency will be at its lowest. The address that the CPU sends to the memory and the data returned are sent back and forth at the same speed within the IGP/SPP’s memory controller. This means that the CPU does not have to wait for any conversions, commonly termed as “overhead,” to take place before it can be sent the necessary data. When the FSB and Memory Clock are running in asynchronous mode and are operating at different frequencies, this overhead penalty requires the data being sent back and forth to be synchronized with the clock domain that it will be entering. If data is going from a clock domain of 133MHz to 166MHz, the data must be resynchronized, therefore using up clock cycles and increasing latency. This is exactly why you’ll want to run your nForce2 system FSB and Memory Clock in sync.

 

[Prof133]

I just hate the idea of getting a Barton going at 200fsb and having the PC2100 ram going at 133.

Yikes, even if the fsb speed is 133?

If FSB is 133 and ram going at 133, then they are in sync and that would be the recommended settings if that's the maximum amount the PC2100 can reach.

 

[endyen]

It's a bad plan. Her celery is already slower than his xp, and you want to cut out the double data rate from her memory bandwidth and use that to cut back on the available bandwidth on the xp system by running it in async. It's a loose loose. Give her his board and chip with ram. Try to sell her mobo, celery, and ram, or swap it at a used/new shop for some pc3200 and get him a decent board and xp2500.

Oh ya, buy her a cheap case, but keep the psu.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by endyen on 01/14/04 03:37 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[georgebeee]

I got an athlon xp2000+ running at 133mhz, slowed my pc2700 down to run in sync like prof says and my system runs with a cs latency of 2 now instead of 2.5, optimized by my mobo that way. and my system runs much more smoothly, with less hiccups and I would have to say even a touch faster.

 

[Titanion]

Your advice makes a lot of sence... they should have never bought the HP in the first place... that was before I was around. They thought the other computer was dead, but I fixed it up for them and brought it back to life... and they both wonder why it is way better than the HP.

But they would be throwing her HP computer away, essentially... with all of its HP crappy esthetic qualities... the DVD/floppy, and whatever else has its own exterior that is part of the case... I will have to look closer next time I go over. It might be a situation where it would be too tramatic to replace that damn thing entirely, thus my proposition of getting a better micro-board with an AGP slot. The 2100 ram should stay, at any rate...

You are right... my thinking would be both a waste of my time and of their money... if he wants to upgrade, he should save up and do it right. fast ram/cpu/board/video vard/psu/better case... the list goes on anhd on... Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

They need to sell that HP... and then just build a new computer from scratch.

<font color=red><b>To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n.</b></font color=red>
John Milton, <i>Paradise Lost</i>, II 262-263