Dx10 vs dx11

[pnico]

is there going to be a HUGE difference between dx10 and dx11?

I noticed that it seems alien vs predator is one of the latest titles using dx11..

yet other titles like assisins creed is rumored to only be using dx9?

just wondering if the new dx version justifies a new video card..

 

[RickyT23]

depends how anal you are about having the best graphical experience possible.

Most games will run fine on say a 9800GT or a Radeon 4850 with no AntiAliasing under directx9.

But I notice a big difference from using Anti Aliasing, especially in games like Fallout 3 (which is a DX9 game), it makes the graphics look a lot smoother, and gets rid of "jaggies" with things like far off tree branches.

The new DirectX 11 cards are good cards. The Radeon 5850 is a great value for money card, giving performance higher than a GTX285 for less of the cost, and that is without taking DX11 even into account.

Tesselation and Ambient Occlusion are also nice little effects which more and more games will come to use, and which are not supported by the XBox 360 in the same way (i.e. these DX11 games have surpassed the technology of the current console generations).

But I dont think that you NEED a DX11 card to enjoy any of the current games on the market, some just might look slightly better if you have one!

 

[RickyT23]

Heh - i just looked at your config, WOW!! What size monitor are you rockin'?

Are you gonna sell your 2 x 4870X2's and get 1 x 5970? I think I would

 

[pnico]

Thanks Ricky. I love my system. Plays anything. Problem isnt the performance, its just that some games Im not into, like bioshock...
love call of duty..crysis..and others..

What size do you suggest I use?
I was told initially that its not the actual size that makes the difference but the res..
2048x1152..is my default and max res..
not enough??

do you think I should sell my cards on ebay and once I get the cash to get ATI's flagship.. what is that, the 5970?

people advise me to get a larger monitor, some say more ram, and some say leave it alone..

my concern (not a concern really) is that I want to be able to play any game in all its glory with good fps...

I also noticed that there arent that many dx11 games just yet, maybe a handful if that..

do you think I should sell my 4870x2's?

what do you think?

im getting different answers , which is fine, just not sure which direction to go, if any

 

[gamerk316]

Why? Frankly, the only major new feature in DX11 is Tesselation, and every GPU ATI has out takes a big hit in that category (The 5770 had its FPS in Dirt2 cut by 50%, and was almost unplayable). SM5 may have potential, but devs have barly even touched SM4 yet.

There is no reason whatsoever to upgrade your setup at this point in time.

 

[Kewlx25]

ATI 6XXX series next year. go go go Tesselation

DX11 itself is a decent upgrade, but 1st gen cards aren't a "must have".

 

[gamerk316]

^^ I'd argue that the current crop of cards aren't even good; the 5000 series isn't significantly faster then the 4000 series, and so far, their DX11 performance has been lacking. A far cry from the +50% performacne increases some people were expecting...

 

[SpinachEater]

^^ I'd argue that the current crop of cards aren't even good; the 5000 series isn't significantly faster then the 4000 series, and so far, their DX11 performance has been lacking. A far cry from the +50% performacne increases some people were expecting...

Dude, so off base. Do you look at benchmarks? The 5870 has just about equal performance as two 4870s or an x2. The difference comes mainly from extra GB of ram with the two 4870 seup. Regardless, that is an amazing jump in the GPU world. The 5870 had double the ROPs and texture units. That is just about as good as it gets with a new generation of GPUs. What kind of performance gains are significant for you?

Lacking in DX11 performance? What are you basing that on? I would actually flip your argument and not focus on the GPUs lacking, I would highlight the first DX11 titles that are lacking DX11 features. The devs need time to fully utilize DX11 rather than cherry pick a few select features. Read this from Anand's site.

"Being the first DX11 title, Battleforge makes very limited use of DX11’s features given that the hardware and the software are still brand-new. The only thing Battleforge uses DX11 for is for Compute Shader 5.0, which replaces the use of pixel shaders for calculating ambient occlusion. Notably, this is not a use that improves the image quality of the game; pixel shaders already do this effect in Battleforge and other games. EA is using the compute shader as a faster way to calculate the ambient occlusion as compared to using a pixel shader."

 

[Anonymous486]

^+1,

To Gamerk
"I'd argue that the 5000 series isn't significantly faster than the 4000 series."

Think about this. a 4870x2, or the old flagship model, is 2 4870s in CF, and the 5970 is 2 5870s in CF, and according to these charts:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/09/23/ait-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-review/6

one 5870 is faster than a 4870x2, thus 2 5870s, or a 5970, is at least twice as fast as a 4870x2. thats a 100% improvement, which is more than the 50% improvement you said didn't happen from the 4000 series to the 5000 series. and I am fairly sure that your probably some Nvidea fanboy who is just upset that ATI is kicking the crap out of Nvidea.

PS- ATI's DX11 is better than Nvidea's DX11, which doesn't exist yet.

 

[pnico]

so does it make sense to sell two 4870x2's and get a single 5970 now and then get another later down the line?

 

[pnico]

so guys, im a little confused..

I would like to be able to play any dx10 and dx11 game on the market in all its glory. I do have two 4870x2's which I think are still more than enough power for anything on the market..
might not be the fastest, but are certainly up there...

do I sell the 4870x2 and get a single 5970 or get a bigger lcd monitor..currently running a 23 inch capable of (default res 2048x1152)?

I am actually a fan of ATI. I do think both companies offer good hardware but I have been with ATI for years and have not had any issues with them. I've had issues with Nividia cards..

 

[pnico]

ive heard arguments comparing the 4870x2 in quadfire is almost as fast in many cases as the 5970..a single card..
ive heard it the other way around too..

ive also heard that having a 5000 series card today is way overkill for anything on the market because many software titles (with a few exceptions) are not designed to use that much power or optimized for it yet..

so you tell me..

 

[Anonymous486]

actually 2 4870x2 should be roughly equal to a 5970, but if you have the money, it would make sence to, so that you caould free up a PCIE slot and have another one for another 5970, like you said. I would wait for Fermi though, even if you have no intention of buying one of those cards, becuse maybe one of the fermi cards will be good, and the release will likely push down prices. 2 4870x2 in CF are still a beast though, but if you really want performance and DX11 capability, a 5970 is good for you.

 

[Anonymous486]

even if many titles are not optimized to use that much power yet, it will be a great future proof purchase, plus you get an extra PCIE expassion slot for upgradding in the future, and DX11 capability.

 

[pnico]

but does it make sense to go for a video card upgrade vs a lcd upgrade?

 

[Anonymous486]

what would your monitor upgrade budget be?

 

[pnico]

not sre 500-700

 

[pnico]

i was looking at a 29 inch hanns g monitor that had a nice res ssize and had a good review for gaming on amazon.com for like 400

 

[MayDay94]

dude, keep you dual 4870x2's for now. there are no games using dx11 yet where it makes a big difference.

i have a 5970 and love it, but i went from an 8800gt 512mb. much smoother and i max everything. my card came with dirt2 (dx11) and it looks great, but almost impossible to notice difference between dx9 & dx11 while playing.

keep your cards and wait for more dx11 games where you can see a difference.

 

[Anonymous486]

yeah get a new monitor, one with a 16;10 aspect ratio, and a res. of at least 1920x1200 and a low response time

 

[SpinachEater]

Yeah it is hard to say with upgrades like this. Performance-wise, you should be set with your current rig. My view is that you should never let a DX version pressure you into a new VGA because for the most part, games that are quick to jump on the new DX train are usually just using the version as a gimmick. Battleforge is a great example. They are utilizing one small feature of DX11 so that they can call it a DX11 title to move more units.

If you just have money to burn I would say spend it on stuff to enhance your current system where it will make a difference. Headsets, gaming mouse/keyboard, bigger monitor.....ect...ect... But hey, if it makes your day brighter to have the newest technology then go for it.

 

[pnico]

spinach eater and mayday, that makes sense...having both 4870x2's is I think more than enough power to handle anything today and for some time to come..
most games still dont even require the 4000 series ati as their recommened system requirements.. at all..

I think a new lcd would probably be a better idea..

 

[pnico]

so does anyone know where my cards performance stands today? having both cards running 4 gpu's as one..according to an ati senior rep..
Ive read its faster than a 5570, and slightly slower than a single 5970 and about faster than a 5770.. so in a sense..with what Ive got, if i understand the reviews correctly for having two cards, im about in the middle of the mix of the 5k series..performing better than some and not quite a good as the 5970..and thats primarily because I have two cards running..if I had a single 4870 or single 4870x2 it would be a differ story

as far as lcd, is what I have good enough to use the cards i have? i have a acer b233hu which is 23 inch with a 2048x1152 default/max res..

 

[MayDay94]

you should be roughly on par with my 5970, perhaps a bit lower as you mention. again, no reason to upgrade.

as far as lcd, i have the acer 27" with same resolution. honestly, you are fine unless you want to go higher: 30" or 3 lcd's (eye-finity). the 3 lcd's would require you to upgrade to a 5 series ati card, but again, why? your pc kicks butt, so relax for another year and see where trends go. with consoles dictating game development now, there is no need to upgrade until the games demand it. otherwise, you're just spending cash on a hard-to-notice frame increase or shiny object.

 

[gamerk316]

^+1,

To Gamerk
"I'd argue that the 5000 series isn't significantly faster than the 4000 series."

Think about this. a 4870x2, or the old flagship model, is 2 4870s in CF, and the 5970 is 2 5870s in CF, and according to these charts:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/09/23/ait-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-review/6

one 5870 is faster than a 4870x2, thus 2 5870s, or a 5970, is at least twice as fast as a 4870x2. thats a 100% improvement, which is more than the 50% improvement you said didn't happen from the 4000 series to the 5000 series. and I am fairly sure that your probably some Nvidea fanboy who is just upset that ATI is kicking the crap out of Nvidea.

PS- ATI's DX11 is better than Nvidea's DX11, which doesn't exist yet.

First off, you'd compare a 5870 against a 4890 if anything. Secondly, once you move away from Crysis, you get a much narrower margin. Even a 5870 v 4890 comparision, you only get at best ~30% performance. Certainly not worth an extra $300, thats for sure.