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pci express MBs

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April 22, 2004 2:25:03 AM

When will the pci express motherboards be out? In June or July is this correct?

If I buy a pci express MB will the Radeon 9700 pro work on that MB?

I dunno if I should wait for the new pci express MBs. Should I wait or not.

I think graphic cards are still not even using full AGPx8.

More about : pci express mbs

April 22, 2004 2:51:50 AM

PCI-exp for graphics maybe by sept. Your 9700 pro wont fit. 16X PCI-exp is about 3x faster than graphics can use downstream. If you are looking for some high-end video-in, it might be worth it. As for PCI-exp 1X and 2X , next year. Same story here. No real use, maybe later.
April 22, 2004 3:31:40 AM

I have a feeling mobo makers will make boards with both AGP and PCI Express for a while.

You've tried and failed. The lesson here is, never try again. -- Homer Simpson.
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April 22, 2004 3:34:44 AM

My understanding is that it will be one or the other only. I think (not sure) that bothe interfaces cant be supported on one chipset.
April 22, 2004 5:02:53 AM

i've heard that for whatever reason pci ex and AGP dont play nice with one another. SiS was developing something...but on most mainstream boards i dont think you will find AGP even in the first implimentations of ex.

If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a processor
110% BX fanboy
April 22, 2004 1:31:29 PM

talking about PCI express, will regualar PCI cards still function?

<A HREF="http://www.tubgirl.com" target="_new">Don't Click This - Please!</A>
April 22, 2004 3:38:12 PM

as far as I know, no. totally different bus design so not a chance.

However, I think I read somewhere that early PCI-E boards will have a normal PCI slot or two in addition to the others.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 22, 2004 4:07:16 PM

Quote:
My understanding is that it will be one or the other only. I think (not sure) that bothe interfaces cant be supported on one chipset.

If that's the case I would assume that some of the newer mobos will come in two different flavors, either AGP or PCI Express. Otherwise if you want to upgrade your mobo but not your vid card you will be screwed especially if you just plunked down $400 on a 9800XT.

You've tried and failed. The lesson here is, never try again. -- Homer Simpson.
April 22, 2004 5:21:18 PM

If I buy a nForce3 Pro 250 motherboard will it still be top of the line when the first pci express MBs come out?

And when will the performance of a pci express graphic card be used in a pc games?
April 23, 2004 1:27:12 AM

Two really good questions. One can only speculate. History tells us that your nForce3 Pro 250 mobo will not be top of the line when PCI Express comes out but it'll probably be close. As far as pc games utilizing PCI Express, I'm sure the games coming out now would benefit. I have a Radeon 9700 Pro that I now have to overclock to get decent frame rates at 800X600 in Farcry.

You've tried and failed. The lesson here is, never try again. -- Homer Simpson.
April 23, 2004 2:04:46 AM

What do you mean by « high-end video-in »?

Witch motherboard are you talking about?

And what does the nforce 3 chip do on the MB? I don't think my MB I have now has a chip.
April 23, 2004 8:33:32 AM

Quote:
I have a Radeon 9700 Pro that I now have to overclock to get decent frame rates at 800X600 in Farcry.

What's the rest of your system like? I am using a 9700 Pro and I play Farcry quite happily at 1024x768. Are you talking about exceptionally high frame rates, or all settings maxed?

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=27..." target="_new">My Rigs</A>
April 23, 2004 2:35:22 PM

I think nvidia was working on an AGP to PCI-Express adaptator in order to satisfy customers who don't want to spend 500$ for a new video card.
April 23, 2004 3:14:59 PM

I think that was simply a chip/circuit which allows them to dramatically cut down the amount of differences between a PCI-E and AGP version of the same card - so they don't have to re-design too much.

It's never going to be released in the form of an adapter, AFAIK.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 23, 2004 3:16:22 PM

More to the point - I don't see how you could fit any kind of adapter between one slot and another and remain within the ATX spec (i.e. make sure the back of the card lines up correctly with a slot on the back of the case)

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 23, 2004 3:27:50 PM

What Nvidia was developing was a PCI-express to AGP Bridge(or other way around, can't rmember how you designate it), so they could use an AGP GPU on a PCI Express board. ATI is, or was hitting on this, claiming they will have the only actual Native PCI Express solution(to start at least). This has been my understanding anyways.

So the "adapter" wasn't really an adapter to let you use any card, but a bridge for use on the card itself, so makers could use AGP GPUs when they make PCI Express video cards.
April 23, 2004 3:39:02 PM

I knew it was something along those lines - i.e. not anything of any use to us. We'll still need to buy a new gfx card if we get a PCI-E mobo.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 23, 2004 7:53:07 PM

Can someone tell me what the nforce 3 chip does? Does it boost the performance of the graphic and sound card?

If it does why would I need pci express? I think the performance of a pci express and nforce 3 250 motherboard would be the same. Unless the pci express MB's will come with a nforce 3 chip or better. Am I wrong?

I don't think there's a reason to wait for a pci expres MB. Maybe in a few years I will buy one.

Can someone clearify this?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Zemuron on 04/23/04 04:18 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 24, 2004 1:46:25 AM

All motherboards have silicon that controls the interface between the cpu and devices , like usb, hard drives video etc. In most cases this requires 2 chips, and is called a chipset. In the Nforce3 case, this is handled by a single chip (North Bridge) I have taken to calling it the Nforce chip.
Pci express for graphics is slated to start at 16X. This is 4x faster than most current agp cards. This doesn't mean that graphics cards will become 4X faster, but that the interface will be ready when they do. This will probably take from 3 to 6 years.
April 24, 2004 2:15:57 AM

Quote:
What's the rest of your system like? I am using a 9700 Pro and I play Farcry quite happily at 1024x768. Are you talking about exceptionally high frame rates, or all settings maxed?

I'm sorry for being vague. I indeed like to run my games with all the settings maxed. I can run Farcry at 1024x768 but occasionally frame rates drop below the 30fps and it begins to get choppy. My system is as follows:

P4 2.8 @ 3.36GHz
MSI Neo-LSR
1GB Kingston HyperX PC4000
ATI Radeon 9700 355/324
Other really cool stuff

Quote:
I think nvidia was working on an AGP to PCI-Express adaptator in order to satisfy customers who don't want to spend 500$ for a new video card.

Knowing Nvidia it probably won't work with ATI cards! :lol: 

You've tried and failed. The lesson here is, never try again. -- Homer Simpson.
April 25, 2004 6:00:51 PM

Can someone please give me a link to a website where I can find out what kind of cpu will fit in the first pci express MBs?

And I also need to know what kind of chips the first pci express mbs will have.
April 27, 2004 3:44:22 AM

It'll be an LGA775 P4E. Chipset choices will be intel Grantsdale or Alderwood.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*
April 28, 2004 2:03:51 AM

I doubt we'll see an SIS based PCI-E board prior to an intel one - but maybe at the same time.

In that Asus model number, P4 indicates it's a P4 board, S indicates it uses an SIS chipset, and 800 indicates the maximum FSB speed.

So no, you cannot use an AMD processor in that board. You should be able to use that DDR1 memory as it uses the 665 northbridge.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*
April 28, 2004 2:14:53 AM

I'm trying to figure out what to buy for my top of the line gaming rig.

I had everything figured out.

I was going to buy a AMD Athlon 64 FX-51 socket 940, a nForce3 Pro 250 and this type of memory

<A HREF="http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item..." target="_new">http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...;/A>

and maybe this case:

<A HREF="http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite..." target="_new">http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...;/A>

But now my friend just told me to wait for pci express. Should I wait for pci express MBs? Will it be better then what I was going to buy?

And with pci express what's the top of the line cpu for gaming?



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Zemuron on 04/27/04 10:16 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 28, 2004 3:58:31 AM

If you're ready to buy it now, just buy it now. I don't think we'll see cheap PCI-E solutions in mass quantitys until the end of the summer.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*
April 28, 2004 4:54:28 AM

I'm not ready to buy it now. In a mouth I'll be ready.
April 28, 2004 5:25:12 AM

damn..that the second time you start a thread about your next computer...still not got it? You know what? When PCI xpress will be here, there will be new technology ahead so you'll still be here asking question instead of playing with the great game that are out now.

Common..get a life!

What would that be when you'll need a car? I guess you'll take the bus for all your life because they announce new car with new technology and new equipement every years!

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
April 28, 2004 7:13:01 AM

Who thinks there's going to be something better then pci express next year?

I don't think there's going to be something better then pci express next year or the year after that.

And like I said. I won't be being my parts now. I will buy them next month or the month after that because I don't have enough money.

So I'm waiting for pci express. I just need to know the best type of cpu and memory for it.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Zemuron on 04/28/04 03:16 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 29, 2004 8:03:45 AM

Ok, this is how I understand PCI express: The PCI bus is slow, it runs at 33mhz, and is about 10 years old. PCI express uses serial as opposed to parallel transfer. This is mainly b/c CERTAIN needs have arisen, i.e. high quality video streaming (perhaps through an integrated firewire, which DOES go through the PCI bus) and large file transfers over the internet (all ethernet transfers go thorough PCI bus also). PCI express is designed to alleviate this, and get rid of AGP, which was kind of a stop-gap measure anyway. That being said:

no graphics card today can use the full bandwidth of the AGP bus. They probably won't be able to for another couple of years. Also, most major chipset vendors have created solutions to allow ethernet traffic to move faster (i.e Intel's CSA, and NVidias integrated MAC controller). That being said, your gaming box will probably not benefit noticably from a pci express mobo, but you will:
- pay extra for the mobo
- pay extra for a pci express video card
- pay extra for any pci express pci cards.

basically, if you get PCI express right off the bat, you're just going to pay through the nose for bleeding edge technology that isn't going to get you any extra IQ or FPS. PCI express is undoubtably cool, but since it requires the design of entirely new mobos, it will be accepted slowly. And as for other technologies, DDR2 and DDR3 are coming out soon, and thats f**king cool too.
May 2, 2004 12:18:27 AM

I still going to buy a pci express motherboard. Because in like 5 years I'm going to need a pci express graphic card and it doesn't make sense to buy another mb in 4-5 years. It's a waste of money I think unless I sell my old one. But I might not be able to sell it.

Does anyone here know if the chips in the first pci express mb's will be faster then the nforce 3 pro 250?
May 21, 2004 7:50:14 PM

Having a nice comp that plays games decently and upgrading once every 5 years are mutually exclusive goals. 5 years ago, 600MHZ was the bomb for a comp, ram was ungodly slow, FSB speeds were ass. I built my 1.2 Athon system in July of 2001 and I need to upgrade it now. I can't imagine what I'll think of it in 5 years. Anyway, even when PCI express comes out, it'll be ungodly expensive and buggy. It makes more sense to let PCI express push prices down on primo non-PCIex components and then buy those.
May 21, 2004 10:54:52 PM

Can you give me a few examples of bugs a pci express MB could have?
May 23, 2004 4:39:23 AM

Well, since they haven't really been tested yet, that would be hard. But whenever you have a massive hardware move like this, new code needs to be written to interface with it, pinouts on mobos have to be changed. SATA is an awesome technology, but people are still having problems with it since XP doesn't recognize SATA drives until SP1. Some hard drive imaging programs don't work correctly with SATA. In another year, most of these problems will be ironed out. Point is, new technology always means compatibility issues. I've read threads in here about how VIA chipsets that claimed to be able to support 133 FSB weren't at first able to support it due to stability problems.
May 23, 2004 9:16:15 AM

There major advantage to go with PCI express base solution


1 Bandwith increase there not much need in game but 3D rendering make great use of faster interface.

2 Less latency 2.5GHZ lane vs 66 MGHZ or 33 MGHZ.It hard to know by how much.

3 Also there wont be waiting latency for turnaround bus.Wich is about 5 to 10 cycle at 66 mghz or if you want the GPU that run at 500 mghz will have to wait 50 or 100 cycle before a write back or read to the ram systems can be done.

4 better command control utilization.It totaly kill the need for optimization in command queing as it have 4 time more command control bandwith (similar to RDRAM).The only need you have it a small little buffer and a very simple interface.RAM utilization will be higher as MCH will have a larger choice of command to excute (out of order) no less turnaround bus for the MCH also so more bandwith and less page miss less latency on ram sub systemes.


5 PCI express base offer 2.5 more current to the GPU that AGP 8X so the need of external molex like G6800 or X800 will not be a critical point also more simple power circuit inside the GPU and GDDR 2.

6 Less pin count it will simply the package of GPU.PCI express base will use less pin while having better specification on command\control and power transmision.Reducing PCB and GPU package cost of production.

i need to change useur name.
!