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MSI Neo K8T -FIS2R - Won't post ; D-bracket error

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June 2, 2004 2:40:25 AM

I have read the Motherboard FAQ and the only mounting posts in my case are the ones that match the mounting locations on the motherboard. I do not think it is a grounding problem.

I have a MSI Neo K8T-FIS2R motherboard and I'm trying to troubleshoot why it will not post.

The motherboard comes with a D-Bracket 2. Quoting from the user manual "D-Bracket 2 is an external USB bracket integrating four Diagnostic LEDs, which use graphic signal display to help users understand their system."

The four lights tell you the progress of your system during boot up. As soon as I turn the computer on, I get 4 red LEDs which indicates that the processor is damaged or not installed properly.

I followed the AMD CPU install instructions to the letter. There is nothing complicated about installing the CPU.

Did I install the CPU incorrectly? Is my CPU DOA or is there something wrong with the motherboard? I know the diagnostics say it is the CPU but would MSI say something is wrong with their product?

Specs
CPU: AMD64 3200+ (OEM - PIB)
Memory: (2) x Crucial 512 MB 184 Pin DIMM DDR 3200
HD: 80 GB IBM Deskstar
Case: Antec SX1040
Power Supply: Antec 480 W True Power
Video Card: GeForce FX 5600

Am also confused about hooking up the front panel LEDs. The user manual explains what each pin on the motherboard is for. I do not understand how to translate that from Electrical Engineeringese to plain english. For example. What does HD LED Pull up (Signal: HD_LED_P) mean? Since there are onlt 2 wires for the HD LED I know that if one way does not work use the other way. The pins are marked with colors but I don't understand their color scheme. Some are marked with a single solid color while others with two colors. If the colors matched the colors on the wires that would make sense. Unfortunately they don't.

Thanks for your help and patience in reading my essay.
a b V Motherboard
June 2, 2004 3:07:49 AM

Did you connect the square, 4-pin ATX12v connector from the power supply to your motherboard?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 2, 2004 3:36:08 AM

Listen to Crashman, the new Hyper Threading P4's needs lots of power, more then the tradition plug can supply, so they added a 4 pin to give it the needed power-remember with hyper threading active, it thinks it is two cpu's
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June 2, 2004 12:57:17 PM

Yes. I did connect the square, 4-pin ATX12v connector from the power supply to my motherboard.

mrmonsoon:

I'm confused about your response. Do AMD64 CPU's do hyperthreading like the P4s?
June 2, 2004 1:00:03 PM

No they don't
a b V Motherboard
June 2, 2004 10:14:57 PM

Heh, P4, Athlon, they all use a lot of power, that's why the "P4 12v" connector is called "ATX12v" and is now used on both AMD and Intel boards.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 2, 2004 11:06:08 PM

It looks like my best course of action is to return the CPU and hope that fixes my problem. If not, return the MB and hope that I don't get anymore bad parts.
June 22, 2004 1:22:48 PM

I RMA'd my CPU. When I got the new CPU I installed the CPU, memory & video card on my motherboard. I attached the power for the board & the CPU. I plugged in the power switch. The computer will post and go all the way to the loading operating system operation. This is as far as it should go without any HD attached. This was done with the MB outside of the case.

The problem is if I put the MB in the case it will not post. This leads me to believe that I have a grounding problem. The standoffs used in my case are those small brass/copper looking things. I see 2 solutions to my problem.

1. Use non conductive spacers/washers
2. Replace the brass standoffs with non-conductive standoffs.

Since I'm good at doing the wrong thing. What is the best way to solve my grounding problem?

Thanks for your help.
June 22, 2004 2:56:01 PM

Heya;

This is an interesting problem you have.

Im wondering if your possibly using holes in the motherboard that arent meant to be used, you should only use the holes with the metal rings around them for hard mounting the motherboard to the standoffs, if you use holes without the metal rings then it will cause improper grounding. This is just a shot in the dark, its a common mistake, if this isnt whats happening then try resetting CMOS, its possible that a setting in your BIOS is causing the strange behavior, its worth a try atleast, otherwise i cant think of a reason why you should be getting this error IF you are grounded properly.

Check it out and if this doesnt solve your problem come on back, im sure we can help you figure this out sooner or later /chuckle

<Archer> Cant this thing go any faster, I thought this was a Warp 5 Engine?

<Trip> Yeah, on paper...

Xeen
June 22, 2004 5:19:02 PM

Thanks for your suggestions.

Since I'm at work and my computer is at home I can not, at this time, give you a definite answer. But to the best of my knowledge, the nine holes in the MB are all meant for mounting. Getting all the mounting holes to match the standoffs was a bit of a pain in the butt. They did not line up perfectly. All were off by a tiny bit. Some were off to the left and others to the right and ...

One thing that I did not consider is the backplate used to mount the CPU heatsink and fan. There may be a possibility that it touches the case.

Are there any other possible points of contact that could cause improper grounding?
June 22, 2004 10:09:25 PM

I cleared/reset the CMOS.

The MB has 9 mounting holes. I'm using the right holes to mount the MB.

I do not know if this is related. In the instructions for installing the heatsink it says it requires quite a bit of force to install. It required some force but not as much as the install instructions seemed to indicate. There is force applied to the CPU.

Thanks for your help.
June 23, 2004 12:50:53 PM

Anyone got any troubleshooting ideas?

I'm out of ideas. Installing a MB shouldn't be that difficult.

<edit>My MB did not come with mounting hardware. Is this standard practice?</edit><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by huh on 06/23/04 08:59 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 24, 2004 10:00:30 AM

heya

I tell ya i really dont know what could be causing the problem, how about using a grounding strap, forcing a solid ground from the motherboard to the PSU, heck i dont know. if this is a grounding problem that should solve it.

It may also be a bios glitch, it doesnt sound like one but stranger things have happened, perhaps you should flash the bios with the latest version.

Crashman is prolly the man to talk to about this, hes got more experiance then most of us put together heh.

You could spend a half hour with tech support from the mobo manufacturer, see if they know a solution, probably not but ya never know.

<Archer> Cant this thing go any faster, I thought this was a Warp 5 Engine?

<Trip> Yeah, on Paper...

Xeen
June 24, 2004 11:56:19 AM

...how about using a grounding strap, forcing a solid ground from the motherboard to the PSU...

How do I do that? The more details the better. By details I mean stuff like:

Go to your local hardware store and buy 11" of #3 wire with 0.04" thick insulation, 2 #23 anondized sheet metal screws place the wire between the Motherboard and the standoff. The grounding strap needs to attach to the bottom, top, left side right side etc of the MB...

If I don't understand your instructions I'll post back.

I appreciate your help. Thanks
June 24, 2004 9:18:17 PM

Heya

The grounding strap in the traditional sense isnt insulated, but being that its inside close to other sensitive components it would probably be a good idea to use one that is, use one with a high wire count, some monster cable with like 1,000 wire count would be great, you can find this type of wire at a car audio store, you will also have to buy the crimping end connecters so that you can attach it to the motherboard.

Find a grounding point on the motherboard that has a clear circuit path around the board to insure that you are using the most robust grounding circuit.

This whole idea is just a shot in the dark, it cant hurt, however it could possibly solve the intire issue, its a hit miss thing.

I could be completely wrong and it could be a faulty power supply causing the entire issue, however the grounding strap idea is worth a shot, and if it works its a cheap solution to the problem.

The thing that bothers me about this whole thing is a grounding strap shouldnt be required, however i have seen it implimented several times, on many different system configurations. If the grounding strap doesnt work then its probably a faulty PSU, or a problematic BIOS version. Double and tripple check your power/reset button wiring from your case to your mobo, it might be improperly connected, Also check to make sure you arent using power plugs on the PSU marked for *Fan connection only* the Antec PSU have these connectors.
I guess only time will tell, but i will stay with you on this and hopefully we can solve the issue.

Xeen
July 1, 2004 10:34:59 PM

I used MSI's online tech support form and this is the reponse I got back:

"Hi,

The problem you've indicated appears to be that the board is grounding to the case. To isolated this problem. You will need to either put padding form on the bottom of the case to see if this can resolve the issue or put electrical tape on the bottom of the case so that the board does not touch the case again

Thanks"

I need in help understanding the answer. I'm assuming that they want me to put an insulating medium on the bottom of the case where the standoff are mounted. Basically tape over the mounting holes with insulating tape.

Am I understanding their response correctly?

Thanks for your help.
July 2, 2004 1:57:52 AM

try this .. i had a similar responce to a problem i had once. though it didnt solve mine cos it the end it wasnt the case. but thake the antistatic bag where the mainboard was in and use it a layer between the mainboard and the mounting bracets. so the screws ( dont know if thats spelled right :)  ) and put them through the motherbaord and the the antistatic bag into the mountingholes. ( dont know if this gives u an idea of what i mean ) :) 
July 3, 2004 9:03:14 AM

Heya huh:

If i understand the tech correctly hes telling you that it sounds like the bottom of the motherboard is touching the grounding plate, for some reason this sounds highly unlikely, the stand-offs, SHOULD elevate the motherboard off of the grounding plate with room to spare, if not then the stand-offs are just too damn short and you should replace them with longer ones, and you can avoid the whole issue intirely. I cant imagine the stand-offs being that short but maybe you got ahold of some shady stand-offs, i wouldnt think so considering they are a pretty standard piece of hardware, but stranger things have happened. I know this must be fustrating, but keep on trouble shooting you will eventually get this figured out. My advice is to go buy a new bag full of Stand-offs and try the new ones instead.

<font color=blue> <Archer> Cant this thing go any faster, I thought this was a Warp 5 Engine?
<Trip> Yeah, on paper... </font color=blue>
October 5, 2004 1:49:20 PM

The issue was not with the computer equipment but with the computer builder.

I'm a bonehead!

Based on the images in the MSI manual I thought that metal CPU support bracket attaches dierctly to to the back of the motherboard. I thought that black rubbery thing that was on the bracket was supposed to be removed. On the new board I realized that you could remove the brown paper and expose the sticky black pad. I left the pad on and assemble my computer.

It is up and running.
!