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Opinions and answers sought - Assassins/Barbarians.

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Anonymous
September 17, 2005 5:37:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Xpost agd, agd2.

I found my first Ohm this season. This gets me thinking of making a
WWSin. Unfortunately, I'm not into PvP much, but I wonder if she can
be a suitable PvM build. Before I actually make a Chaos, there is a
question I would like to ask.
"Can I release TS charges by using WW?"
If not I won't be doing much damage, will I?

I will of course max Venom and Claw Mastery. I can foresee +5 skills
total, bringing WW to level 6. But will this be enough damage in Hell?
I have never played a WWBarb, how much damage does a level 6 WW do?
This brings me to my next 3 questions:
"Does Crushing Blow work with WhirlWind?"
"If it does, does it work in the same manner as other melee attacks?"
"Same questions for Critical Strike."

My plan is to equip the Natalya claw, Duress, Highlord, Guillame,
crafted gloves with IAS and crushing blow, resistances and leech rings,
GoreRiders, and Verdungo or Strings. I will switch to Harlequin,
Marrowwalk, and Soul Drainer if CB doesn't work. Any comments or
suggestions on these items? I do not have the runes for CoH, so the
Duress is there to stay. I do not think the unique claws are good
because none has ITD. I think Natalya's ITD is what makes this build
viable; therefore, this is also there to stay unless someone has a
strong argument against it. I do not have the runes for Fury (the only
other possible ITD claw) either.

Mana burners will be an issue, therefore I need to consider using
Insight for my merc. However, I would like my merc to use Reaper's
Toll for the CtC Decrepify to compensate lack of damage from WW. Any
thoughts here, especially those who have played WWSins or WWBarbs?

Thank you in advance for your replies.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 6:41:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

If your using for PvM and be careful what you make it in
as it can cost a fortune to repair,avoid superior and
unneccary skills on the claw.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 7:26:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Alex Holtz schrieb:
> Xpost agd, agd2.
>
> I found my first Ohm this season. This gets me thinking of making a
> WWSin. Unfortunately, I'm not into PvP much, but I wonder if she can
> be a suitable PvM build. Before I actually make a Chaos, there is a
> question I would like to ask.
> "Can I release TS charges by using WW?"

I'd say yes, but only on the first hit. Doesn't make much sense IMHO.

> If not I won't be doing much damage, will I?

Damage output is somewhat limited, yes. But that can be fixed by using
lots of CB.

> I will of course max Venom and Claw Mastery. I can foresee +5 skills
> total, bringing WW to level 6. But will this be enough damage in Hell?

Only +all skills count, not +assassin skills.

> I have never played a WWBarb, how much damage does a level 6 WW do?
> This brings me to my next 3 questions:
> "Does Crushing Blow work with WhirlWind?"

Yes!

> "If it does, does it work in the same manner as other melee attacks?"

Yup

> "Same questions for Critical Strike."

No idea.

> My plan is to equip the Natalya claw, Duress, Highlord, Guillame,
> crafted gloves with IAS and crushing blow, resistances and leech rings,
> GoreRiders, and Verdungo or Strings. I will switch to Harlequin,
> Marrowwalk, and Soul Drainer if CB doesn't work. Any comments or
> suggestions on these items? I do not have the runes for CoH, so the
> Duress is there to stay. I do not think the unique claws are good
> because none has ITD. I think Natalya's ITD is what makes this build
> viable; therefore, this is also there to stay unless someone has a
> strong argument against it. I do not have the runes for Fury (the only
> other possible ITD claw) either.

I tried both Natalyas and Bartucs and found Bartucs the better choice.

> Mana burners will be an issue, therefore I need to consider using
> Insight for my merc. However, I would like my merc to use Reaper's
> Toll for the CtC Decrepify to compensate lack of damage from WW. Any
> thoughts here, especially those who have played WWSins or WWBarbs?

I wrote a report about my WWsin here in the group a while ago. However,
Google Groups seem to have lost my posting. But I still have it in my
archives :) 

<quote>

Ever since 1.10 came out I wanted to make a Whirlwinding Assassin using
a Chaos claw. But at the same time, I was convinced that I would never
be able to get a hand on a legit OHM rune. So I stopped thinking about
it during the first ladder season. But with the second season, I had
some luck with hellforge rune drops early on and begun to plan for mule
hellforge rushes.

After two or three rushing sessions (I have access to up to five D2
installations which allowes me to rush 3 mules along with the questing
Smiter and a high level helper), I finally had collected enough ISTs,
MALs and GULs to cube up an OHM. But I still needed a three socket elite
claw with nice skills. After endless hell cow and baal runs without
finding a usefull sleeve I checked the indiablo.de trade forums and
traded a 3 socket Suwayyah with +2 Dragon Flight/+3 Death Sentry for an
UM rune.

In the meantime, I had leveled Chaotia to 57 thus having everything
ready to start the chaos. I got only 292% ed - low end, but the range is
only 290-340 (I hate variable stats on rune words, especially on high
end rune words).

Now I had to get the feeling for a new skill (well I had played WW Barbs
before, but still) at lvl 57 in mid Nightmare. In Hardcore mode of
course. With the most valuable item I ever had. Strange feeling :)  . To
my surprise, it worked better than I had dreamed of, given the fact that
slvl 1 Whirlwind gives -50% damage. So Chaotia made her way to the
remaining quests of Nightmare with ease and grew old enough for her
final equipment:

Chaos claw
Upgraded Bartucs with ed jewel
UMed Guillaumes face
Duress wire fleece
Gore riders
Crafted dual leech hit power gloves
String of Ears
Raven Frost
Rare 7% ll 5% ml ring
21ish Mara's
2 +3 Shadow Skill claws on weapon switch

Of course, a Fury claw would perform better and is strongly recommended
by the guide on diabloii.net, but how the heck should someone ever find
or cube a JAH? (Well I found one in the old days of massive hell cowing)
Another option would be a Jade Talon, but the resists part is covered by
a high level Fade and a few charms. Speaking of skill points, here is
what I was heading for:

Max Fade
Max Claw Mastery
Max Venom
Enough points in Shadow Master to cast at slvl 17
15 points with skills in Weapon Block for 55% blocking
1 point in both Mind Blast and Cloak of Shadows
A few points in Blade Shield
Martial Arts skill tree: nada lol

After a short sneak into Hell and some resists charm tweaking I decided
to skip the boring NM Baal run leveling sessions but to start with Hell
right away, solo with one of my other high level chars sitting in the
game with looting enabled.

If you want to read the guide I based my build apon, search for 'PvM
Shredsin' in the thread found here:
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=126543&page...
Lots of usefull info about Assassin builds in this thread BTW.

Instead of giving a detailed report about the way of Chaotia through
Hell (the end was reached about one month ago, I had not planed to write
a report at all and have only a few screenshots to help my memory) I
just want to discuss the pros and cons a bit.

First of all (and most important), I had a lot of fun playing this char.
It's a melee char (with Death Trap support though), you can (and have
to) use the defensive abilities (Mind Blast, Cloak of Shadows) resulting
in more than just a point and click game experiance, you use a multi
target attack and don't have to target every single critter. And this is
a surprisingly strong build. I soloed her to Guardian, so this build
must be strong :)  .

Even though she had only about 1000 hit points at the beginning of Hell,
I soon found out that it was possible to rush into the battles without
too much precaution. She has 32% Damage Reduction (20% from Fade, 12%
from String of Ears), she is moving while attacking causing most ranged
attacks to miss, she has 55% chance to block attacks *while attacking*,
she blocks attacks with Weapon Blocks that can't be blocked with a
shield. 8% mana leech were enough to keep the blue bubble filled and
keep the WW going (except against skelletons, physical immunes and mana
burners of course, where she had to drink blue potions). Did I mention
that I was surprised how durable that build is?

So how to deal a good amount of damage when Whirlwind at slvl 3 has -34%
dmg bonus? Well this penalty isn't as bad as it looks in the first
place, because it is just substracted from the other damage modifiers:
Claw Mastery +131%
Str Bonus 0.75*152/100= +114%
Dex Bonus 0.75*152/100= +114%
WW Bonus -34%
So it's still +325% in total, not too bad. Nearly 700 physical damage on
average from both claws. Add 216-471 magical dmg from Chaos claw,
690-710 from slvl 29 Venom and the cold damage from Duress, Ravenfrost
and a bunch of charms and the numbers begin to look nice. But of course,
the key modifier (as with most other melee chars in 1.10) is Crushing
Blow. She has no less than 75%. Enough said. I don't think I have to
mention how usefull Death Trap is even at low levels.

The downside of this build is that it is very item dependend. You need
an OHM and pretty much all of the other equipment Chaotia is using, or
even more expensive stuff. A 'cheap' variant of this build does not exists.

So what incidents during Chaotias travel through Hell did I keep in
mind? Most of it was smooth going. Areas with lots of PIs or unleechable
skeletons are definitely not the favorit areas of Chaotia. In the few
maps where Oblivion Knights can spawn (Chaos Sanctuary, Worldstone Keep
III), I had to switch to Blade Fury to avoid IM death. Fighting the
Ancients was easier than expected (it required a few days until I was in
the right mood for that though) using my standard 'lure then to the
upper corner' approach. Oh and the fight with Lister was a tough one.
Stoneskin, thus PI, extra strong, spectral hitting. I nearly gave up the
fight because he healed himself at about the same rate as Chaotia could
hurt him with Venom. But she finally made it as she made it to Guardian
shortly thereafter.

Oops no word about her merc. I decided that an Act 2 Holy Freeze desert
warrior is the best choice, expecially if you have an ethereal Obediance
Thresher you can equip him with.

---
Hannes

PS: If you can ever get a hand on an OHM rune, try this. So much fun :)  .

</quote>
Related resources
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 3:38:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Hannes Brunner wrote:
> Damage output is somewhat limited, yes. But that can be fixed by using
> lots of CB.

Great, I thought CB was nerfed for WW as when using a throwing weapon.

> > I will of course max Venom and Claw Mastery. I can foresee +5 skills
> > total, bringing WW to level 6. But will this be enough damage in Hell?
>
> Only +all skills count, not +assassin skills.

Yes, the +skills I had in mind was Highlord, Harlequin, and Annihilus.
That is +4, I was incorrectly thinking that Highlord had a +2 skill.
But now knowing that CB works, I will use Guillame instead of
Harlequin.

> I tried both Natalyas and Bartucs and found Bartucs the better choice.

You didn't have problem scoring hits? How much AR did you have?

> I wrote a report about my WWsin here in the group a while ago. However,
> Google Groups seem to have lost my posting. But I still have it in my
> archives :) 

I generally found the guides on diinet not much to my liking, therefore
I don't read them. Thank you for sharing your experience, Hannes.

> 21ish Mara's

With Fade on, do you really need the resistances from Mara's? I am
leaning toward Highlord because of its Critical Strike and IAS.

> Martial Arts skill tree: nada lol

I am thinking Tiger Strike here to be released on a single powerful
monster, such as Act bosses. Did you find CB to be sufficent?

> First of all (and most important), I had a lot of fun playing this char.
> It's a melee char (with Death Trap support though), you can (and have
> to) use the defensive abilities (Mind Blast, Cloak of Shadows) resulting
> in more than just a point and click game experiance, you use a multi
> target attack and don't have to target every single critter. And this is
> a surprisingly strong build. I soloed her to Guardian, so this build
> must be strong :)  .

Great, that's what I like to hear. Same as you, I am planning to skip
NM Baal run and to solo through Hell with a looter stand by.

> Enough said. I don't think I have to
> mention how usefull Death Trap is even at low levels.

You mean Death Sentry here, correct? The claw I have is a Scissor
Suwwayah with a +1 to Death Sentry. I am planning only to use the DS
for its Corpse Explosion; therefore I do not plan on increasing its
skill points through hard skill assignments. Hopefully this will be
enough.

> Oops no word about her merc. I decided that an Act 2 Holy Freeze desert
> warrior is the best choice, expecially if you have an ethereal Obediance
> Thresher you can equip him with.

I have an ethereal Giant Poleaxe with 5 sockets available, but I am
leaning more toward Reaper's Toll. I guess I will experiment with it.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 4:51:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Alex Holtz" <aholtz29@yahoo.com> writes:
>I am planning only to use the DS
>for its Corpse Explosion; therefore I do not plan on increasing its
>skill points through hard skill assignments. Hopefully this will be
>enough.

Note that more points in DS increase CE radius, which I found very
useful when I played my first trapper (in 1.07 or 1.08).

- anton
--
Britton Robbins' D2 PDF Guides: http://www.brittonrobbins.com/D2Info.htm
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:29:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Alex Holtz schrieb:

<snip>

>>I tried both Natalyas and Bartucs and found Bartucs the better choice.
>
> You didn't have problem scoring hits? How much AR did you have?

Around 4k with a few AR charms.

>>21ish Mara's
>
> With Fade on, do you really need the resistances from Mara's? I am
> leaning toward Highlord because of its Critical Strike and IAS.

You don't need any IAS to hit the fastest WW attack speed unless you use
a slow claw on the second slot and equip the claws in the wrong order.
More details can be found here:
http://e.domaindlx.com/JRichard/D2/aas22/whirlwindinfo....

I didn't have a Highlords and decided for Mara's mainly because of the
+2 all skills. Can't remember if the resists were required or not.

>>Martial Arts skill tree: nada lol
>
> I am thinking Tiger Strike here to be released on a single powerful
> monster, such as Act bosses. Did you find CB to be sufficent?

Yes. I think one of the major benefits of a WWsin is that you virtually
never stand in one place thus getting hit much less. TS would counteract
that benefit.

> You mean Death Sentry here, correct? The claw I have is a Scissor
> Suwwayah with a +1 to Death Sentry. I am planning only to use the DS
> for its Corpse Explosion; therefore I do not plan on increasing its
> skill points through hard skill assignments. Hopefully this will be
> enough.

Death Sentry, yes. My Chaos claw came with DS and Dragon Flight. About
the best combination for this build :) . No hard points allocated in DS
either.

>>Oops no word about her merc. I decided that an Act 2 Holy Freeze desert
>>warrior is the best choice, expecially if you have an ethereal Obediance
>>Thresher you can equip him with.
>
> I have an ethereal Giant Poleaxe with 5 sockets available, but I am
> leaning more toward Reaper's Toll. I guess I will experiment with it.

Reaper's will be a good selection especially against PIs. Against
bosses, Obediance is hard to beat though.

---
Hannes
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 3:54:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Alex Holtz wrote:
> I found my first Ohm this season. This gets me thinking of making a
> WWSin.

This has happened to me twice. My assassin got stuck in the WW mode,
could not move, attack, TP or use other skills. She seemed to take
very little damage from the monsters while in this stuck position. Is
this a known bug? If so, what should I do to avoid it? I thought I
heard a similar bug on WW Barb in early 1.10, which was already fixed?
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 4:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Alex Holtz schrieb:
> Alex Holtz wrote:
>
>>I found my first Ohm this season. This gets me thinking of making a
>>WWSin.
>
> This has happened to me twice. My assassin got stuck in the WW mode,
> could not move, attack, TP or use other skills. She seemed to take
> very little damage from the monsters while in this stuck position. Is
> this a known bug? If so, what should I do to avoid it? I thought I
> heard a similar bug on WW Barb in early 1.10, which was already fixed?

This happens if you gain a level while whirlwinding. IIRC pressing W for
weapon switch will fix it. I switched to Blade Fury mode shortly before
leveling.

---
Hannes
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 7:20:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Hannes Brunner wrote:
> Alex Holtz schrieb:
> > This has happened to me twice. My assassin got stuck in the WW mode,
> > could not move, attack, TP or use other skills. She seemed to take
> > very little damage from the monsters while in this stuck position. Is
> > this a known bug? If so, what should I do to avoid it? I thought I
> > heard a similar bug on WW Barb in early 1.10, which was already fixed?
>
> This happens if you gain a level while whirlwinding. IIRC pressing W for
> weapon switch will fix it. I switched to Blade Fury mode shortly before
> leveling.
>
> ---
> Hannes

You are absolutely correct, Hannes. Thank you for the information.
Pressing W did not fix that though. Therefore exiting the game is the
only solution. My assassin is now level 68 in Lost City. Besides her
skill level too low for this area, she only has 4% mana leech; thereby
depleting her mana orb very quickly since she did not score many hits
when WWing. It seems that I may have to do NM Baal runs after all, at
least until level 70 so Annihilus will kick in; or probably until level
75 so her resistances won't be in the red any longer.

Current claws are Chaos and Bartuc's. Most likely switch that to
Natalya as I have originally planned. AR in the upper 3700, CTH around
70% but obviously much lower than that since my clvl is lower than the
mlvl. Weapon block appx. 50%, is this capped at 75% similar to shield
blocking? I am going to max this since there is no other skill I can
think of that I should add. Shadow Master, Venom, and Claw Mastery are
maxed. Maybe leftover skill points will go to Blade Shield similar to
your build above.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 2:54:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Hannes Brunner wrote:

> You really should look for another source for mana leech. If you can't
> keep the blue bubble filled this build isn't fun anymore.

Hopefully when I get to the level when I can equip Natalya, this is no
longer a problem. My only source of mana leech is from a ring (double
leech). Now that you say it, I forgot that I had Soul Drainer gloves,
that should add some more leech.

> Resists in the red? With Fade active?

Yes, I only have 1 hard point in Fade so far, because after reaching
level 75, I'll have 28 more resistances from Anni and Torch; plus the
+4 skill to Fade. On rough calculation, that will bring my resists to
58/75/75/37.

> With the diminishing returns of Weapon Block beyond around slvl 15, it's
> imposible to reach 75% anyway (the skill planer displays 64% @ slvl 50).
> 55% with items is a good target, maxing this skill is certainly a waste
> of skillpoints. Blade Shield is stylish but not worth sinking too many
> points here either. The only noticable advantage of more skill points is
> the longer duration. Oh, don't forget to throw in some blade sentinels
> now and then.

I see. As you can tell, this is my first Claw-Claw Assassin. I have
not put points in to Blade Sentinel, it does not look promising since
the damage is only 3/8 weapon damage plus a little more. I was
thinking Blade Shield, because even though it also has tiny damage, at
least it hits when I'm WWing.

For now (clvl 73), I have used only 68 skill points; 1 each in Shadow
Disciplines with the 3 main ones maxed, plus 1 point in Blade Fury. By
the time I move on to another char, level 90, she'll have 101 skill
points; that is 33 more points. 3 probably goes to Fade. I have 2
Shadow skill GC; therefore Mind Blast already has decent duration,
there is no need to increase it further. Cloak of Shadow is, IMO, much
more useful at lower level. Level 6 Death Sentry has acceptable range;
I do not really want to add to all the prerequisites anyways. That
will still leave me with 30 points.

Now if I switch my Highlord to Mara's, I probably won't need to add any
points to Fade; WWind, MBlast, DSsentry, and SMaster will all benefit;
at the cost of losing some Deadly Strike. That's interesting
proposition that deems trials. Of course I still need to find the
Mara's first.

> ---
> Hannes
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 5:56:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Alex Holtz schrieb:
> Hannes Brunner wrote:
>
>>Alex Holtz schrieb:
>>
>>>This has happened to me twice. My assassin got stuck in the WW mode,
>>>could not move, attack, TP or use other skills. She seemed to take
>>>very little damage from the monsters while in this stuck position. Is
>>>this a known bug? If so, what should I do to avoid it? I thought I
>>>heard a similar bug on WW Barb in early 1.10, which was already fixed?
>>
>>This happens if you gain a level while whirlwinding. IIRC pressing W for
>>weapon switch will fix it. I switched to Blade Fury mode shortly before
>>leveling.
>>
>>---
>>Hannes
>
> You are absolutely correct, Hannes. Thank you for the information.
> Pressing W did not fix that though. Therefore exiting the game is the
> only solution. My assassin is now level 68 in Lost City. Besides her
> skill level too low for this area, she only has 4% mana leech; thereby
> depleting her mana orb very quickly since she did not score many hits
> when WWing. It seems that I may have to do NM Baal runs after all, at
> least until level 70 so Annihilus will kick in; or probably until level
> 75 so her resistances won't be in the red any longer.

You really should look for another source for mana leech. If you can't
keep the blue bubble filled this build isn't fun anymore.

Resists in the red? With Fade active?

> Current claws are Chaos and Bartuc's. Most likely switch that to
> Natalya as I have originally planned. AR in the upper 3700, CTH around
> 70% but obviously much lower than that since my clvl is lower than the
> mlvl. Weapon block appx. 50%, is this capped at 75% similar to shield
> blocking? I am going to max this since there is no other skill I can
> think of that I should add. Shadow Master, Venom, and Claw Mastery are
> maxed. Maybe leftover skill points will go to Blade Shield similar to
> your build above.

With the diminishing returns of Weapon Block beyond around slvl 15, it's
imposible to reach 75% anyway (the skill planer displays 64% @ slvl 50).
55% with items is a good target, maxing this skill is certainly a waste
of skillpoints. Blade Shield is stylish but not worth sinking too many
points here either. The only noticable advantage of more skill points is
the longer duration. Oh, don't forget to throw in some blade sentinels
now and then.

---
Hannes
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 3:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Alex Holtz schrieb:
> Hannes Brunner wrote:
>
>>You really should look for another source for mana leech. If you can't
>>keep the blue bubble filled this build isn't fun anymore.
>
> Hopefully when I get to the level when I can equip Natalya, this is no
> longer a problem. My only source of mana leech is from a ring (double
> leech). Now that you say it, I forgot that I had Soul Drainer gloves,
> that should add some more leech.
>
>>Resists in the red? With Fade active?
>
> Yes, I only have 1 hard point in Fade so far, because after reaching
> level 75, I'll have 28 more resistances from Anni and Torch; plus the
> +4 skill to Fade. On rough calculation, that will bring my resists to
> 58/75/75/37.
>
>>With the diminishing returns of Weapon Block beyond around slvl 15, it's
>>imposible to reach 75% anyway (the skill planer displays 64% @ slvl 50).
>>55% with items is a good target, maxing this skill is certainly a waste
>>of skillpoints. Blade Shield is stylish but not worth sinking too many
>>points here either. The only noticable advantage of more skill points is
>>the longer duration. Oh, don't forget to throw in some blade sentinels
>>now and then.
>
> I see. As you can tell, this is my first Claw-Claw Assassin. I have
> not put points in to Blade Sentinel, it does not look promising since
> the damage is only 3/8 weapon damage plus a little more. I was
> thinking Blade Shield, because even though it also has tiny damage, at
> least it hits when I'm WWing.

Mods that transfer to Blade Sentinel:
- Deadly Strike
- Elemental damage/Venom (3/8)
- Physical/Weapon damage (3/8)
- Pierce Target (natural)
- Prevent Monster Heal

You can deal quite a bit damage to crowds with Blade Sentinel especially
at high levels when you can keep running several blades at the same time.

Mods that transfer to Blade Shield:
- Deadly Strike
- Elemental Damage/Venom (1/4)
- Leech
- Physical/Weapon Damage (1/4)

The main reason for Blade Shield is that it helps with Leech. You have
to get used to recast it before every battle though.

> For now (clvl 73), I have used only 68 skill points; 1 each in Shadow
> Disciplines with the 3 main ones maxed, plus 1 point in Blade Fury. By
> the time I move on to another char, level 90, she'll have 101 skill
> points; that is 33 more points. 3 probably goes to Fade. I have 2
> Shadow skill GC; therefore Mind Blast already has decent duration,
> there is no need to increase it further. Cloak of Shadow is, IMO, much
> more useful at lower level. Level 6 Death Sentry has acceptable range;
> I do not really want to add to all the prerequisites anyways. That
> will still leave me with 30 points.

Don't forget the hidden Physical Damage Reduction bonus of Fade. With
every hard point in Fade, you get 1% PDR. Fade has to be active for PDR,
it's not a passive bonus.

I agree that more than one point in BF, MB and CoS is a bad idea. If you
like to throw blades (which is a cool concept IMHO, too bad it's not
strong enough to create a char around it) max Blade Sentinel might be a
point to consider.

> Now if I switch my Highlord to Mara's, I probably won't need to add any
> points to Fade; WWind, MBlast, DSsentry, and SMaster will all benefit;
> at the cost of losing some Deadly Strike. That's interesting
> proposition that deems trials. Of course I still need to find the
> Mara's first.

I'd say Highlord's DS is better than Mara's extra +skill if you don't
need the resists anyway.

---
Hannes
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 3:37:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Hannes Brunner held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
3pkj9tFarg24U1@individual.net to this Interweb chatroom:

>>
>> I see. As you can tell, this is my first Claw-Claw Assassin. I have
>> not put points in to Blade Sentinel, it does not look promising since
>> the damage is only 3/8 weapon damage plus a little more. I was
>> thinking Blade Shield, because even though it also has tiny damage,
>> at least it hits when I'm WWing.
>
> Mods that transfer to Blade Sentinel:
> - Deadly Strike
> - Elemental damage/Venom (3/8)
> - Physical/Weapon damage (3/8)
> - Pierce Target (natural)
> - Prevent Monster Heal
>
> You can deal quite a bit damage to crowds with Blade Sentinel
> especially at high levels when you can keep running several blades at
> the same time.
Lots of people mentioned Sentinel to me for my furysin, but once I hit 26 or
so I found it to be useless.

>
> Don't forget the hidden Physical Damage Reduction bonus of Fade. With
> every hard point in Fade, you get 1% PDR. Fade has to be active for
> PDR, it's not a passive bonus.
>
It is extremely nice though, and works even better with String of
Ears/Stormshield...

> I agree that more than one point in BF, MB and CoS is a bad idea. If
> you like to throw blades (which is a cool concept IMHO, too bad it's
> not strong enough to create a char around it) max Blade Sentinel
> might be a point to consider.
>
Woah. Blade Fury is not strong enough to build a character around? If I
wasn't about to go to work, I'd google up the post I made a while ago where
my furysin absolutely pwn3d the clone. She also participated in Uber killing
and was VERY successful. Now, I'll agree that they need fairly uberfied
gear, but the are definitely viable.
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 7:36:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

>>I agree that more than one point in BF, MB and CoS is a bad idea. If
>>you like to throw blades (which is a cool concept IMHO, too bad it's
>>not strong enough to create a char around it) max Blade Sentinel
>>might be a point to consider.
>
> Woah. Blade Fury is not strong enough to build a character around? If I
> wasn't about to go to work, I'd google up the post I made a while ago where
> my furysin absolutely pwn3d the clone. She also participated in Uber killing
> and was VERY successful. Now, I'll agree that they need fairly uberfied
> gear, but the are definitely viable.

My bad. I meant Blade _Sentinel_ isn't powerfull enough. BF is a
different story :) .

---
Hannes
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 1:40:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ wrote:

> What skill allocation and items did / do you use Jabs? I've never played a
> 'sin except for a half-hearted effort in 1.09 and am wondering about keeping
> a few of the 'sin specific items I find....
> --
> ~misfit~

As much Crushing Blow; same as Kicker, Smiter, and all other melee
chars.
1 point in BF.
Rest up to you: Talon, DSentry (+synergies), Fade, MB, CoS, SM, BoS.
If Claw-Claw: weapon block, "Strength" is cheap CB claw.
If Weapon-Shield: many choices.
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 3:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
4335ef9f@news.orcon.net.nz to this Interweb chatroom:

> Chris Lansdell wrote:
>> Woah. Blade Fury is not strong enough to build a character around? If
>> I wasn't about to go to work, I'd google up the post I made a while
>> ago where my furysin absolutely pwn3d the clone. She also
>> participated in Uber killing and was VERY successful. Now, I'll agree
>> that they need fairly uberfied gear, but the are definitely viable.
>
> Yep, I've seen her in action.
>
> What skill allocation and items did / do you use Jabs? I've never
> played a 'sin except for a half-hearted effort in 1.09 and am
> wondering about keeping a few of the 'sin specific items I find....

There's another thread on here somewhere with those details, please forgive
me for not reposting them, but a)I'm lazy, and b) I'm la
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 11:35:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
4336c7fa@news.orcon.net.nz to this Interweb chatroom:

> Chris Lansdell wrote:
>> ~misfit~ held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
>> 4335ef9f@news.orcon.net.nz to this Interweb chatroom:
>>
>>> Chris Lansdell wrote:
>>>> Woah. Blade Fury is not strong enough to build a character around?
>>>> If I wasn't about to go to work, I'd google up the post I made a
>>>> while ago where my furysin absolutely pwn3d the clone. She also
>>>> participated in Uber killing and was VERY successful. Now, I'll
>>>> agree that they need fairly uberfied gear, but the are definitely
>>>> viable.
>>>
>>> Yep, I've seen her in action.
>>>
>>> What skill allocation and items did / do you use Jabs? I've never
>>> played a 'sin except for a half-hearted effort in 1.09 and am
>>> wondering about keeping a few of the 'sin specific items I find....
>>
>> There's another thread on here somewhere with those details, please
>> forgive me for not reposting them, but a)I'm lazy, and b) I'm la
>
> Can you at least give me a keyword or phrase / time frame to search
> for?
> Furysin I guess. Were you posting as Jabber or Chris then?

Orion Ryder held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
1127220460.642785.214990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to this Interweb
chatroom:

> My recent trip to uber-tristram has refueled Kasmir to come back to SC
> play. He really only has experience playinfgAssassins and from what I
> seen in uber-tris the only Sasin that is going to contribute anything
> is a BF Sasin with some extra added specialties, something the
> Armaggedon-like Goddess HolyStarsBatman with all of the Blowing Crush
> gear.
>
> He played last night to level 9 and has held off on skill and stat
> points. Jabber you might have posted your build and skills and stats
> but if so can you paste them here or post what he needs to distribute
> now and in the future.
>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.diablo/browse_...

That thread outlines the endgame gear I'm using. Skills:
1 pt Blade Fury
20 Venom
Enough Fade to Max resists
20 Shadow Master
1 or so in Mind Blast
Rest in Death Sentry and synergies

Enough Str for...hmmm I think the hat or possibly the shield is the
heaviest. Dex to taste, depending on how bad you find the AR. No Energy.
Rest in Vit.

If you want a pure furysin, then you don't put points in Death Sentry,
instead go for Blade Sentinel. Cloak can be worth putting more than one
point in, to increase the duration. It is essential to use Cloak against
gloams and archers. Shadow Master is another candidate for maxing,
especially if you can prebuff it substantially.
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 9:45:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz>, in a display of leetness, fell down
the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>> There's another thread on here somewhere with those details, please
>> forgive me for not reposting them, but a)I'm lazy, and b) I'm la

>Can you at least give me a keyword or phrase / time frame to search for?
>
>Furysin I guess. Were you posting as Jabber or Chris then?

Should be easy to find... it's from a couple of days ago and has "BF Sassin
Build Info" in the title.


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 9:45:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message
news:43376d99@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Stephen van Ham wrote:
>> "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz>, in a display of leetness,
>> fell down the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked
>> sash at Baal...
>>
>>>> There's another thread on here somewhere with those details, please
>>>> forgive me for not reposting them, but a)I'm lazy, and b) I'm la
>>
>>> Can you at least give me a keyword or phrase / time frame to search
>>> for?
>>>
>>> Furysin I guess. Were you posting as Jabber or Chris then?
>>
>> Should be easy to find... it's from a couple of days ago and has "BF
>> Sassin Build Info" in the title.
>
> Cheers Stephen. That's one of the few threads I didn't read of late as
> I've had little interest in assasins..... so far.

Speaking of assassins, I found a realy high end firelizard's. Max to all
skills, 261%ED and 66%FR.

Mickey
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 12:15:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Alex Holtz" <aholtz29@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127718168.296992.178200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Currently I have him wearing MF gear, a 73% MF Tomb Reaver and a 2
>> P-topaz
>> Giant Skull. My MF runs are quite slow as I'm not CE'ing as much as I
>> usually would as I don't have as much MF as I'm used to on the necro yet
>> so
>> I'm trying to let my merc get the final hit in on bosses as much as I
>> can.
>
> Food for thought.
> Suppose you have 300% MF. Your Actual MF is
> Unique: 136%
> Set: 187%
> Rare: 200%
>
> With 421% MF, your merc's Actual MF is:
> U: 156.86% --> difference of 20.86%
> S: 228.56% --> difference of 41.56%
> R: 247.40% --> difference of 47.40%
>
> Let's use an over pessimistic value to get a lower bound to benchmark.
> With CE you kill 2x faster, that's 2 tries of 136% to get a unique
> item. Without CE, it is 1 try of 156.86%. Still think you should
> limit using CE?

Unless you build a char desighned to kill a particular boss, you will ALWAYS
do better in volume. For example, in 1.08, I had my gorillazon doing MF. Her
sole raison d'etre was to kill Baal as at that time, he had the magic touch
as far as certain items, like Schaefer's, Windforce and Grandfather. For
areas like The Pit, The Ancient Tunnels and the WSK, I'd take volume and
speed over a little more MF any time.

Mickey
!