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Building a better skeleton

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Anonymous
September 17, 2005 10:46:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Hello fellow necro players,

These last few days, it has become obvious to me that some people have
either forgotten or never known one key fact about skeletons.

Riase Skeleton and Skeleton Mastery, while being of utmost importantce,
are useless once your skels are up. That being the case, there is a way
to make VERY powerful skeletons without compromising other attributes.
Once your skeletons are raised, the ONLY thing that changes should you
reduce the skill levels of SM or RS is the number of skeletons you can
have. That being teh case, let's crunch some numbers, shall we? Good,
I'm glad you agree.

For each point in RS, not counting the NUMBER of skeletons, you get:

+2 damage per skeleton
+15 AR
+15 DEF
+10 life

For each point in SM, you get:

+2 damage
+8 life

Now let us look at how this affect us gearwise. For this endeavor, we
will assume max items, as everyone can caluculate backwards from there.
On my primary weapons tab, I have a spirit sword and a Homunculus (p
diamond), for the resists and skills. This combination gives me +4 to
teh releveant skills, giving me:

(10 * 4) + (8 * 4) = 72 life
(2 * 4) + (2 * 4) = 16 damage
(15 * 4) = 60 DEF
(15 * 4) = 60 AR

Now, on my second tab, I will put the following items:

Necro head, +2 all, +3 SM + 3 RS
Whiet Wand made in a +3 RS +3 SM wand.

This yields the following:

(10 * 8) + (8 * 12) = 176 life
(2 * 8) + (2 * 12) = 40 damage
(15 * 8) = 120 DEF
(15 * 8) = 120 AR

Now if while on this tab you raise too many skeletons, some will vanish
when you switch back, but the rest of their attributes will remain, and
you will have FAR better killing power and skeletons that never ever
die.

Mickey

More about : building skeleton

Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:18:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

> These last few days, it has become obvious to me that some people have
> either forgotten or never known one key fact about skeletons.

Unrelated to your study here Mickey, but can you tell me why after raising
skellies and mages in act 1 and running back with no interference from any
minions to Akara instead of teleporting I lose half of the mages? If I do a
slow walk I can keep them all.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 8:42:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

RelMark (at dot) wrote:
> "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Now if while on this tab you raise too many skeletons, some will vanish
> > when you switch back, but the rest of their attributes will remain, and
> > you will have FAR better killing power and skeletons that never ever
> > die.
>
> This may be too obvious to mention, but you can add even a little more
> power by resummoning the army after hitting the first skill shrine you
> run across.
>
> Also, is this item really possible?
> > Necro head, +2 all, +3 SM +3 RS
> I remember reading, either here or in AGD2, that first-tier skills
> couldn't appear on items with an ilvl of 30 (I think) or above. Not sure
> how true this is, but I don't believe I've ever seen +skills and +RS/SM
> on the same item myself.

As both Raise Skeleton and Skeleton Mastery are both tier one, level
one skills, they can be found together on a wand, by shopping at
Drognan's Shop of Wands in act2 normal mode.

Mickey
Related resources
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 8:46:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Jaakko Raipala wrote:
> Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
>
> > One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same curse no
> > matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great for boosting damage
> > or removing PI, but sometimes the melee characters in a group may like some
> > life tap, or some dim vision, etc. And this coming from someone who rarely
>
> Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
> necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
> full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
> is utterly irrelevant in comparison and the Amp doesn't have the time
> to benefit the party at all. Most of them, when asked, say that they
> haven't even put a point in Lower Resist and that is just criminal if
> you want to play in parties (and, when asking further, rarely have
> realized that LR helps CE, sometimes better than AD).
>
> Even more annoying are the necro players who don't understand that
> blowing up corpses prevents reviving. I no longer go to Hell Baal
> runs, but when I did, I ran into many that simply collapsed due to a
> reviver mummy pack and a nasty undead monster mix. Not surprising
> given the attention span and skill of the average battle.netter
> (souls! next game!), but several times it would've been trivial if any
> of the necro players around would've simply known what their char can
> do. The average battle.netter really doesn't know anything but the
> cookie cutter game.

I use whatever skill I think will produce a corpse fastest, or is best
suited for the situation. For example, if I am playing with both an
FuryZon and a HammerHead, I will cast AD for the first group of
minions, LR for the second, AD for the third, LR for the fouth and
Decrep for the last. I cast AD on the 1st and 3rd groups because they
are small in numbers, and the hammerhead is most likely to get a kill
with his hammers first, and make me my corpse. I cast LR on the 2nd and
4th groups because they are large in numbers, and the javazon is most
likely to get the kills, and I cast decrep on the last because you can
never slow Lister down too much. Once there are two or 3 corpses
around, I switch to AD in all cases and blow away anything that is
left.

Mickey
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 8:47:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Zamboni wrote:
> "Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:baipi1lm7jvifhpt73m7npn9gm7pvbo9a2@4ax.com...
> >
> > One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same curse
> > no
> > matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great for boosting
> > damage
> > or removing PI, but sometimes the melee characters in a group may like
> > some
> > life tap, or some dim vision, etc. And this coming from someone who
> > rarely
> > even plays necromancers. Hell, even a necrophobe such as me can figure
> > this
> > out once he has his hotkeys in a setup that minimises fumbling. ;-)
> >
> > I've settled into a default situation of "leading" with either decrepify
> > or
> > dim vision, depending on the area, and then switching to amp or life tap
> > once
> > everything is in place and I've had a chance to assess the situation.
> >
> I was in one large game, happily spamming Amp everywhere, but started to
> notice that the line was sagging and some of the other players were starting
> to take a beating from archers off the edge of the screen. I switch tabs and
> cast level-32 Dim Vision on the four corners of the screen, shutting
> everything down so we can better look at things.
>
> A small voice pipes up: "What the Hell was that?"
> Someone else: "Must be lag, all the monsters are frozen."

I do that in the throne room when souls are about. Puts a rapid end to
them spamming me.

Mickey

> --
> Zamboni
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 10:35:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:

> Now if while on this tab you raise too many skeletons, some will vanish
> when you switch back, but the rest of their attributes will remain, and
> you will have FAR better killing power and skeletons that never ever
> die.

This may be too obvious to mention, but you can add even a little more
power by resummoning the army after hitting the first skill shrine you
run across.

Also, is this item really possible?
> Necro head, +2 all, +3 SM +3 RS
I remember reading, either here or in AGD2, that first-tier skills
couldn't appear on items with an ilvl of 30 (I think) or above. Not sure
how true this is, but I don't believe I've ever seen +skills and +RS/SM
on the same item myself.

RelMark
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 5:39:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, RelMark wrote:

>> "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:

>> Also, is this item really possible?
>> > Necro head, +2 all, +3 SM +3 RS
>> I remember reading, either here or in AGD2, that first-tier skills
>> couldn't appear on items with an ilvl of 30 (I think) or above. Not sure
>> how true this is, but I don't believe I've ever seen +skills and +RS/SM
>> on the same item myself.
>>
>> RelMark

Generally this is true. I've done EONS of shopping attempting to get +2
necro/+ANYTHING rs/sm and it never shows. Ditto +2 ass +ANYTHING
psychic hammer.

Perhaps it will spawn on a random drop in the field, or via crafting,
but shops and gambling follow that rule: If you're high enough to see +2
class skills, you'll NEVER see a level 1 skill boost!
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:10:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Hello fellow necro players,
>
>These last few days, it has become obvious to me that some people have
>either forgotten or never known one key fact about skeletons.
>
>Riase Skeleton and Skeleton Mastery, while being of utmost importantce,
>are useless once your skels are up. That being the case, there is a way
>to make VERY powerful skeletons without compromising other attributes.
>Once your skeletons are raised, the ONLY thing that changes should you
>reduce the skill levels of SM or RS is the number of skeletons you can
>have. That being teh case, let's crunch some numbers, shall we? Good,
>I'm glad you agree.

Well, I can't comment on the numbers (and do they take into account the bugged
skeleton stat display?), but it sounds good, and I think I'd be doing that,
were it not for the fact that I don't have a good teleport amulet or enigma,
and thus have a speelsteel on switch.

So can I go off on a tangent? Thanks.

One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same curse no
matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great for boosting damage
or removing PI, but sometimes the melee characters in a group may like some
life tap, or some dim vision, etc. And this coming from someone who rarely
even plays necromancers. Hell, even a necrophobe such as me can figure this
out once he has his hotkeys in a setup that minimises fumbling. ;-)

I've settled into a default situation of "leading" with either decrepify or
dim vision, depending on the area, and then switching to amp or life tap once
everything is in place and I've had a chance to assess the situation.

Actually, one tracking cursing has made more than just cringe, it's made me
swear one time when I was taking out the clone using a charged strike zon.
As we all know, the clone has massive resistances to most attack forms, so of
course I had him under the effects of Lower Resist (via a shopped wand), thus
allowing my charged strike to actually do some damage. So this necro enters
the game, joins me, and immediately casts Decrepify on the clone, completely
removing said zon's ability to inflict significant damage (it was early ladder
and she didn't have good CB gear yet). I cast Lower Resist, then he casts
Decrepify again. This goes on a few times. I sigh, head back to town and
go read some forums. I come back a while later and said necro is still
trying to kill the clone with his skeletons and decrepify. I guess he forgot
to grab some hefty revives, or his merc didn't have crushing blow. :-)

Actually, I also cringe when some necros insist on reviving every damn gloam
in a level. Sure, it looks fancy, but sometimes it's kinda hard to tell
which lightning streams are from your allies and which aren't. ;-)


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:10:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:

> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same curse no
> matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great for boosting damage
> or removing PI, but sometimes the melee characters in a group may like some
> life tap, or some dim vision, etc. And this coming from someone who rarely

Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
is utterly irrelevant in comparison and the Amp doesn't have the time
to benefit the party at all. Most of them, when asked, say that they
haven't even put a point in Lower Resist and that is just criminal if
you want to play in parties (and, when asking further, rarely have
realized that LR helps CE, sometimes better than AD).

Even more annoying are the necro players who don't understand that
blowing up corpses prevents reviving. I no longer go to Hell Baal
runs, but when I did, I ran into many that simply collapsed due to a
reviver mummy pack and a nasty undead monster mix. Not surprising
given the attention span and skill of the average battle.netter
(souls! next game!), but several times it would've been trivial if any
of the necro players around would've simply known what their char can
do. The average battle.netter really doesn't know anything but the
cookie cutter game.
September 18, 2005 6:10:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:baipi1lm7jvifhpt73m7npn9gm7pvbo9a2@4ax.com...
> Well, I can't comment on the numbers (and do they take into account the
bugged
> skeleton stat display?), but it sounds good, and I think I'd be doing
that,
> were it not for the fact that I don't have a good teleport amulet or
enigma,
> and thus have a speelsteel on switch.
>
> So can I go off on a tangent? Thanks.
>
> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same curse
no
> matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great for boosting
damage
> or removing PI, but sometimes the melee characters in a group may like
some
> life tap, or some dim vision, etc. And this coming from someone who
rarely
> even plays necromancers. Hell, even a necrophobe such as me can figure
this
> out once he has his hotkeys in a setup that minimises fumbling. ;-)
>
> I've settled into a default situation of "leading" with either decrepify
or
> dim vision, depending on the area, and then switching to amp or life tap
once
> everything is in place and I've had a chance to assess the situation.
>
> Actually, one tracking cursing has made more than just cringe, it's made
me
> swear one time when I was taking out the clone using a charged strike zon.
> As we all know, the clone has massive resistances to most attack forms, so
of
> course I had him under the effects of Lower Resist (via a shopped wand),
thus
> allowing my charged strike to actually do some damage. So this necro
enters
> the game, joins me, and immediately casts Decrepify on the clone,
completely
> removing said zon's ability to inflict significant damage (it was early
ladder
> and she didn't have good CB gear yet). I cast Lower Resist, then he
casts
> Decrepify again. This goes on a few times. I sigh, head back to town
and
> go read some forums. I come back a while later and said necro is still
> trying to kill the clone with his skeletons and decrepify. I guess he
forgot
> to grab some hefty revives, or his merc didn't have crushing blow. :-)
>
> Actually, I also cringe when some necros insist on reviving every damn
gloam
> in a level. Sure, it looks fancy, but sometimes it's kinda hard to tell
> which lightning streams are from your allies and which aren't. ;-)

I hear you loud and clear. There was actually quite a bit of time that I
simply refused to play with any necros. I agree with everything you stated,
but one thing that also bothers me is what I call pussy necros. All they do
is hide behind their minions and do nothing. How can anyone build a necro
and not use CE?
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:10:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:baipi1lm7jvifhpt73m7npn9gm7pvbo9a2@4ax.com...
>
> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same curse
> no
> matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great for boosting
> damage
> or removing PI, but sometimes the melee characters in a group may like
> some
> life tap, or some dim vision, etc. And this coming from someone who
> rarely
> even plays necromancers. Hell, even a necrophobe such as me can figure
> this
> out once he has his hotkeys in a setup that minimises fumbling. ;-)
>
> I've settled into a default situation of "leading" with either decrepify
> or
> dim vision, depending on the area, and then switching to amp or life tap
> once
> everything is in place and I've had a chance to assess the situation.
>
I was in one large game, happily spamming Amp everywhere, but started to
notice that the line was sagging and some of the other players were starting
to take a beating from archers off the edge of the screen. I switch tabs and
cast level-32 Dim Vision on the four corners of the screen, shutting
everything down so we can better look at things.

A small voice pipes up: "What the Hell was that?"
Someone else: "Must be lag, all the monsters are frozen."
--
Zamboni
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:10:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> kirjoitti:

> Jaakko Raipala wrote:
>> Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
>> necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
>> full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
>> is utterly irrelevant in comparison
>
> So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing support
> for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and there too?

Huh? What on earth are you talking about? The game doesn't count
"kills". Casting LR in that situation can make the runs so fast that
it's clearly faster exp for everyone, while everything dies so fast
that the skellies wouldn't be killing anything anyway. LR also helps
CE, even if usually not as much as AD, and those summoners who always
cast AD usually don't even use CE. (Last time I built a summoner, I
most definitely used LR as the main curse in Baal runs rich with
high-damage elemental chars, and everything worked much faster than on
those runs where there was some dumbass necro around to overwrite that
with AD and whine about how my LR isn't going to help his skeletons.)

What I'm talking about, here, are precisely those people who play in
parties exactly like they play solo and don't want to adjust their
playstyles to the strengths and weaknesses of the different characters
to make the PARTY stronger, because they want to do all the killing
themselves or whatever. The necro can be a very strong supporting
character and how efficiently he uses his skills to complement the
party can often make a huge difference, sometimes even make the
difference between smooth, fast runs and complete failure at the hands
of a nasty pack, but is often played by jerks who consider the whole
idea of being a bit of a supporting character offensive and want to
"get in some kills". Really, those people who think the game is a just
a killing contest should go play solo or make a hammerdin instead.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:10:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Jaakko Raipala held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
slrn4dipt4e.6k0t.raipala@rock.it.helsinki.fi to this Interweb chatroom:

> Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
>
>> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same
>> curse no matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great
>> for boosting damage or removing PI, but sometimes the melee
>> characters in a group may like some life tap, or some dim vision,
>> etc. And this coming from someone who rarely
>
> Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
> necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
> full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
> is utterly irrelevant in comparison and the Amp doesn't have the time
> to benefit the party at all. Most of them, when asked, say that they
> haven't even put a point in Lower Resist and that is just criminal if
> you want to play in parties (and, when asking further, rarely have
> realized that LR helps CE, sometimes better than AD).
>
You would not believe some of the ignorance I've come across. In pubbie
games, I almost automatically switch to LS in case of Necros or Hammerdins
with Redemption. However, I actually met a Necro who was wearing...wait for
it...

Nature's Peace.

> Even more annoying are the necro players who don't understand that
> blowing up corpses prevents reviving. I no longer go to Hell Baal
> runs, but when I did, I ran into many that simply collapsed due to a
> reviver mummy pack and a nasty undead monster mix. Not surprising
> given the attention span and skill of the average battle.netter
> (souls! next game!), but several times it would've been trivial if any
> of the necro players around would've simply known what their char can
> do. The average battle.netter really doesn't know anything but the
> cookie cutter game.

AMEN!!! To prove a point, this season I am starting with a few cookie
cutters, both because I can and because I don't have the gear to play
variants yet. But generally, I try to be as different as possible, not only
because it's challenging but also because it teaches more about the game and
lesser-used skills (who knew Holy Fire actually KICKS ASS at level 38?)
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:10:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, "~misfit~" wrote:

>> Jaakko Raipala wrote:
>> > Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
>> >
>> >> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same
>> >> curse no matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great
>> >
>> > Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
>> > necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
>> > full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
>> > is utterly irrelevant in comparison
>>
>> So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing support
>> for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and there too?

Teamwork. Team Work.

Cast AD or Decrep and part of the physical damage anybody hands out is
from YOU, the corpselord. Cast LR and part of the elemental damage
anybody hands out is from YOU, the corpselord. Also any attacks
launched at your skeletons, rather at other team members, is YOU
defending the team members with a dozen decoys.

"Yeah we had a world war. I never did anything, though, never saw
action... I just stayed at home and helped build two bombs."
-- Einstein.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:10:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XXbXe.92487$Ph4.2924375@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> lesser-used skills (who knew Holy Fire actually KICKS ASS at level 38?)

KICKS ASS? Hell, one of my zealots has holy fire at lvl 42 with both Res
Fire AND Salvation maxed, and IT doesn't kick ass in hell.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:18:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

> That's why I don't play my necro in parties unless someone wants help
> with, say, the ancients or something. He's for MF and helping my other
> characters through, not for fun party play. That's what my strafeazon,
> pally and frenzy barb are for.

Those are my sentiments, one of my skellymancers can raise close to 60
skellies, mages and revives but I'll be damned if I'd do it in a party as it
takes forever to kill off all the minions and can produce great lag in the
game which is rude to others. But whats equally frustrating is when your in
a screwed up party and everyone is getting waxed and chased around the
throne room doing dumb things and there you are with just a merc, golem, AD
and CE. I've had to use Bone Wall/Prison because of screwed up parties, talk
about a mess. Glad somebody mentioned DV on souls, never gave that a
thought.
September 18, 2005 6:52:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"jerk-o" <jerk-o@yomomma.org> wrote in message
news:hn5qi1h2hcdaje30qc7kojacahnel8msk3@4ax.com...
> After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw&gt;
> "Whitedog" <email@email.com> wrote
>
> >How can anyone build a necro and not use CE?
>
> When there's no corpse around?

smartass :) 
September 18, 2005 6:57:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message
news:432d1a76$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Jaakko Raipala wrote:
> > Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
> >
> >> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same
> >> curse no matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great
> >> for boosting damage or removing PI, but sometimes the melee
> >> characters in a group may like some life tap, or some dim vision,
> >> etc. And this coming from someone who rarely
> >
> > Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
> > necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
> > full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
> > is utterly irrelevant in comparison
>
> So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing support
> for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and there too?

Its called smart party play. I had a poison necro last season. He has LR
pumped up, but I always switched to amp to break PI's if there were melee
characters in the party. That's the point of party play, you think about
your party, then you.

I think Jaako is talking about baal runs, in which you're really going for
speed. If you have a bunch of sorcs, LR is going to speed that up more than
amp. Now if you have a bunch of bliz sorcs and the throne room is full of
unbreakable CI's, amp away.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 8:02:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Brian Brunner wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, RelMark wrote:
>
> >> "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> Also, is this item really possible?
> >> > Necro head, +2 all, +3 SM +3 RS
> >> I remember reading, either here or in AGD2, that first-tier skills
> >> couldn't appear on items with an ilvl of 30 (I think) or above. Not sure
> >> how true this is, but I don't believe I've ever seen +skills and +RS/SM
> >> on the same item myself.
> >>
> >> RelMark
>
> Generally this is true. I've done EONS of shopping attempting to get +2
> necro/+ANYTHING rs/sm and it never shows. Ditto +2 ass +ANYTHING
> psychic hammer.
>
> Perhaps it will spawn on a random drop in the field, or via crafting,
> but shops and gambling follow that rule: If you're high enough to see +2
> class skills, you'll NEVER see a level 1 skill boost!

First 1.10 ladder I had a wand with +2 SM +3 RS +2 CE, bought AT
Drognan's.

Mickey
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 9:53:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On that special day, Mickey, (mickeyb@comcast.net) said...

> Now if while on this tab you raise too many skeletons, some will vanish
> when you switch back, but the rest of their attributes will remain, and
> you will have FAR better killing power and skeletons that never ever
> die.

That's exactly what I did on the reported MF test. I raised them (and
the revives) with the switch gear, an Ume's Lament and a handbag with +
1 skills (couldn't find a better one), and then go MF with a Gull and a
rhyme handbag.

But at times, my skellies (I reach only +31 RS, now 32, after ATMAing
another Graverobbers charm) are still reduced by bosses (especially
poisonous ones) and I have to get some by switching the the raise gear.
If a boss dies exactly then, it isn't funny.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 11:04:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ wrote:
> Whitedog wrote:
> > "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:432d1a76$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> >> Jaakko Raipala wrote:
> >>> Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
> >>>
>
> > I think Jaako is talking about baal runs, in which you're really
> > going for speed.
>
> If that's the case it might have been nice if he'd sai that rather tha talk
> about "party play".
>
ummm he did. He was talking about baal runs, and mentioned "runs" quite
a few times. :) 

And I sometimes prefer decrep to LR on my partied baal runs. It creates
a safer room just in case the skels are being outmuscled (HC). Lister
usually gets the decrep treatment.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:22:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 03:01:18 -0700, "Zamboni" <thezambonis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I was in one large game, happily spamming Amp everywhere, but started to
>notice that the line was sagging and some of the other players were starting
>to take a beating from archers off the edge of the screen. I switch tabs and
>cast level-32 Dim Vision on the four corners of the screen, shutting
>everything down so we can better look at things.
>
>A small voice pipes up: "What the Hell was that?"
>Someone else: "Must be lag, all the monsters are frozen."

ROTFL! Believe it or not, I have seen the same kind of utter
cluelessness in HC Hell games! _How_, I wonder, did these people ever
get a char to Hell in HC?

-- Roy L
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:23:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 11:11:51 GMT, "Chris Lansdell"
<lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote:

>You would not believe some of the ignorance I've come across. In pubbie
>games, I almost automatically switch to LS in case of Necros or Hammerdins
>with Redemption. However, I actually met a Necro who was wearing...wait for
>it...
>
>Nature's Peace.

No! Stop! You're killing me!

-- Roy L
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:32:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:45:47 +1200, "~misfit~"
<misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote:

>Jaakko Raipala wrote:
>> Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
>>
>>> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same
>>> curse no matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great
>>> for boosting damage or removing PI, but sometimes the melee
>>> characters in a group may like some life tap, or some dim vision,
>>> etc. And this coming from someone who rarely
>>
>> Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
>> necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
>> full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
>> is utterly irrelevant in comparison
>
>So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing support
>for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and there too?

IMO cursing to support a large and mixed party is one of the more
enjoyable aspects of the necro's art, as well as the most nuanced.
Good cursing can easily triple the party's killing power as well as
its safety (key in HC). And if you really want to kill stuff,
following up LR (or Amp, if your party likes getting physical) with a
maxed CE should satisfy your craving.

-- Roy L
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 1:38:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

I think it was royls@telus.net that wrote something like...

>On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 03:01:18 -0700, "Zamboni" <thezambonis@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I was in one large game, happily spamming Amp everywhere, but started to
>>notice that the line was sagging and some of the other players were starting
>>to take a beating from archers off the edge of the screen. I switch tabs and
>>cast level-32 Dim Vision on the four corners of the screen, shutting
>>everything down so we can better look at things.
>>
>>A small voice pipes up: "What the Hell was that?"
>>Someone else: "Must be lag, all the monsters are frozen."
>
>ROTFL! Believe it or not, I have seen the same kind of utter
>cluelessness in HC Hell games! _How_, I wonder, did these people ever
>get a char to Hell in HC?
>
>-- Roy L

Brought them off E-Bay with daddys credit card?


Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:59:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1127081099.078130.59280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Brian Brunner wrote:
> > On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, RelMark wrote:
> >
> > >> "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Also, is this item really possible?
> > >> > Necro head, +2 all, +3 SM +3 RS
> > >> I remember reading, either here or in AGD2, that first-tier skills
> > >> couldn't appear on items with an ilvl of 30 (I think) or above. Not
sure
> > >> how true this is, but I don't believe I've ever seen +skills and
+RS/SM
> > >> on the same item myself.
> > >>
> > >> RelMark
> >
> > Generally this is true. I've done EONS of shopping attempting to get +2
> > necro/+ANYTHING rs/sm and it never shows. Ditto +2 ass +ANYTHING
> > psychic hammer.
> >
> > Perhaps it will spawn on a random drop in the field, or via crafting,
> > but shops and gambling follow that rule: If you're high enough to see +2
> > class skills, you'll NEVER see a level 1 skill boost!
>
> First 1.10 ladder I had a wand with +2 SM +3 RS +2 CE, bought AT
> Drognan's.

+2 SM, +3 RS, +2CE does not include +2 class skills. You originally
suggested a necro head with +2 all, +3 SM +3 RS. Brian was saying a head(or
wand) that can get +2 all cannot get +3 RS/+3 SM, not that a head withOUT +2
all can't get RS/SM.

> Mickey
>
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:12:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message
news:432e0c3c@news.orcon.net.nz...
> That's both you and Jaakko talking about "much faster". Is that all you
want
> from party play?

When I do party play, I'm essentially doing 1 of 3 things:
1)I'm either helping other people with things THEY need, in which case I
merely want efficiency. If we can do it speedily AND efficiently, I'm all
for it, though I don't mind taking it slow.
2)I'm doing "runs" to level up. And when doing that, yes, speed and
efficiency are all I want from party play. Faster kills means faster levels.
And if I'm with a party of sorcs or trappers and such, I will happily cast
LR and use CE and not give a rat's ass about if it helps my skels or not as
long as it increases our kill speed.
3)I myself am getting rushed to a certain objective, in which case I don't
care how fast it gets done as long as it gets me to where I'm aiming to get.
But obviously, speed is a big plus, cause it gets me to my ultimate goal
faster.

If I want to chat and banter I can do that just fine in the channels, if I'm
in game I likely have some goal I'm aiming for and speed gets me there
quicker.

> Sure, in solo play. However wouldn't that be selfish in party play?

Depends on the party. Most parties I play with share my views-they want
speed, nothing more. And so NOT doing what would help the party advance the
quickest because you want your skels to get a few kills would be more
selfish.

> --
> ~misfit~
>
>
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:35:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw&gt;
"Whitedog" <email@email.com> wrote

>
>"jerk-o" <jerk-o@yomomma.org> wrote in message
>news:hn5qi1h2hcdaje30qc7kojacahnel8msk3@4ax.com...
>> After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw&gt;
>> "Whitedog" <email@email.com> wrote
>>
>> >How can anyone build a necro and not use CE?
>>
>> When there's no corpse around?
>
>smartass :) 

Better than being a dumbass. :-p
--
no, i didn't forget the 'F's
http://www.geocities.com/jerk_o2002
http://www.geocities.com/nameless_mod
-My Diablo 2 Mod
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php
-My theme song
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 8:02:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Stephen van Ham wrote:
> "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
> stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...
>
> >First 1.10 ladder I had a wand with +2 SM +3 RS +2 CE, bought AT
> >Drognan's.
>
> Yes, but Brian is refering to not being able to get +2 to ALL Necromancer
> Skills innately on a wand that also has tier 1 or 2 skills on it, which it
> would seem you were suggesting in your original post.

Nae, as that could NOT be a non-magical wand, and one needs a
non-magical wand to make a White wand in.

Mickey
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 8:13:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ wrote:
> Mark wrote:
> > "Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:udmri11icsmmlnbe977rv8dh6ieo5af3mg@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> Well, I wouldn't necessarily say it's literally a "them before you"
> >> situation,
> >> in a party. After all, the essense of a good party is to make the
> >> game enjoyable for yourself and not just everyone else. One thing
> >> I find though
> >> is that I can get enjoyment from supporting the other players, in
> >> other words,
> >> getting enjoyment from other people's enjoyment, and being a "back
> >> of the pack" kind of character, but I can see how this can vary a
> >> lot from person to
> >> person.
> >
> > Sometime I like to play the Superstar (and I play a Sorc), other
> > times I like to play the sidekick (my Shock Bear). But the Necro can
> > do both roles, heavy duty killer and support character, with the same
> > build. I'm not going to reply to all the posts in this thread, but
> > essentially I disagree strongly with Misfit.
>
> Bummer.
>
> > The Summoner is not
> > taking a back seat when he defers to the majority of the party and
> > uses a curse that benefits them more than himself. Rather, he is
> > showing his versatility, and over all superiority, by being flexible
> > enough to adapt to the situation and shine regardless of his
> > companions.
>
> I agree that a necro is a very powerful and versatile character and many's
> the time I've just wandered along throwing curses. My beef was with a post
> that seemed to me to say "This is the rule for necro party play". If I chose
> to play that role then fine, my choice. However, as you say, the necro can
> play both roles. I like to think I have a choice as to what role I'd like to
> play and I like to think that other party members would allow me that choice
> rather than insist I defer to them.

ANyone who has ever played with me when I am in necro mode will tell
you that I play about as agressive a necro as is possible. I am usually
the one out in front of the party (espeically now that we actually HAVE
to walk down to Baal), and I will cast whatever skill is most suited to
the monsters/team I am with. I don't consider it subjugating myself to
the needs of the team, but rather look at it as the best way to get
some ammo for my CE, which dispite Blizzard's best attempts at nerfing,
is STILL the single most powerful skill in the game, in teh hands of
someone who knows how to use it.

Mickey
September 19, 2005 8:35:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message
news:432e0d46$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> Whitedog wrote:
> > "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:432d1a76$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> >> Jaakko Raipala wrote:
> >>> Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
> >>>
> >>>> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same
> >>>> curse no matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great
> >>>> for boosting damage or removing PI, but sometimes the melee
> >>>> characters in a group may like some life tap, or some dim vision,
> >>>> etc. And this coming from someone who rarely
> >>>
> >>> Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
> >>> necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
> >>> full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons'
> >>> damage is utterly irrelevant in comparison
> >>
> >> So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing
> >> support for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and
> >> there too?
> >
> > Its called smart party play. I had a poison necro last season. He
> > has LR pumped up, but I always switched to amp to break PI's if there
> > were melee characters in the party. That's the point of party play,
> > you think about your party, then you.
>
> Is that what everyone else in the party does too? A totally ego-less
> nirvana?

The people I like to play with, yeah. There are plenty of people that are
anything but ego-less, but I tend to avoid them. I would say however that
the majority of the regulars in the agd games fit your "egoless" profile.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 8:56:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

MIS wrote:
> > These last few days, it has become obvious to me that some people have
> > either forgotten or never known one key fact about skeletons.
>
> Unrelated to your study here Mickey, but can you tell me why after raising
> skellies and mages in act 1 and running back with no interference from any
> minions to Akara instead of teleporting I lose half of the mages? If I do a
> slow walk I can keep them all.

Because they have the same faulty AI that revives do. This is something
that always irked me, as it can take quite some time to get the right
mix of revives/mages. A good necro will QUICKLY nuke any cold mages he
has, as they destroy his supply of ammo, and finding the right revies
is also time consuming. Why THEY should be on a timer when no other
minions in the game are is a mystery.

Mickey
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:14:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1127130986.137768.321120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> A good necro will QUICKLY nuke any cold mages he
> has, as they destroy his supply of ammo

Except when facing act bosses(or ancients), where cold mage+decrep+clay
golem=practical immobility.

> Mickey
>
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:55:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

~misfit~ <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> kirjoitti:

> Jaakko Raipala wrote:
>> Casting LR in that situation can make the runs so fast that
>> it's clearly faster exp for everyone, while everything dies so fast
>> that the skellies wouldn't be killing anything anyway.
>
> So really what you're saying is there's no place for a skellimancer in a
> party at all. All you want is a necro to cast curses to support everyone
> else. Maybe a boner would be better huh? Why bother raising skellies at all?
> Sure, the game might go more quickly and everyone get experience faster but
> it's not much fun for the guy playing the skellimancer.

I absolutely disagree with this. One reason I don't like playing
necros right now is that the average battle.net party isn't very good
at all and few of the people I used to know play anymore, so I don't
get to have a nice and a diverse party, which means that I'll have all
that variety in the curses sitting there without a proper use and I'll
keep thinking about how great it would be to have party members that
would actually benefit from all those great curses.

You whine about the necro having to "hang back", but that's just what
they're supposed to do. How exactly do you play a skellie necro
without "hanging back"?! Stay back, keeping watching the battle and
intervene with curses/CE when the time is right. Like it or not, the
summoning necro is ALWAYS a supporting character, whether it's a party
of humans or a party of summoned critters you're supporting. Why do
you have such a need to see the kills made by your skellies instead of
the human partying with you? What difference does it make? Where does
your morbid love of skeletons come from???

Let's say, what if they'd now release another patch that would make
skellie mages really powerful. Would you then use LR to boost their
killing speed? Of course you would. So, why do you feel different
about using LR to boost the human party members' killing speed? Either
way, you're just hanging back and using the curses to support your
army. You're making it sound like the mere fact that you'd be helping
another player would take away your fun and I doubt that you really
mean that.

Think of the Baal run. Where does the summoners fun come from? From
sitting in the same spot for the whole run and just pushing the mouse
button once for AD for each pack and then for CE? To me, being able to
adapt to the battle by evaluating the skill and equipment of the party
was the fun about a skellimancer on a Baal run. Is the party handling
things well? If so, you won't need three dozen minions for the easy
packs. (They're hard on slow machines when there will be all those
meteors and blizzards flying around, so a courteous necro player will
moderate the army size in the keep. Annoyingly clueless necros will
raise as full an army as they have corpses for, complete with mages,
to handle Colenzo.) How will they be able to handle Lister? If it
might be troublesome, Decrepify, but with some parties they could be
safely LRed, too. And so on. A necro that doesn't just mindlessly
throw around AD but adapts a bit can make a huge difference and I
don't understand why you think that it's less fun than standing in the
same spot to pull the same simple mouse routine for every pack.

To be fair, a lot of battle.net necros couldn't really optimize their
curse usage very well, since some of them will have much knowledge
about the various characters' strengths and weaknesses and they won't
be able to judge the party's ability as well as someone like me that
has played most (all?) popular builds through at least SC - many
wouldn't even know which skills are greatly helped by AD/LR and which
aren't. But then, a lot of those people will instantly laugh at necros
using curses like DV for not being 1337 enough (just watch how anyone
who deviates from a cookie cutter build and battle plan, for example
by casting DV, will be declared a "noob").

> Ok, I see that your comments are clouded by previous bad experiences with
> morons, or people who wouldn't let you tell them how to play their
> characters. However isn't the whole idea of a co-operative game playing so
> that everybody enjoys it? Not just the sorcs and javazons getting the
> benefit of the necro's LR and bitching when he doesn't consent to be their
> lap-dog?

No, the idea of co-operative play is to co-operate, not to just play
like the other characters don't exist. If you're so attached to the
necro and can't see the problem, let's try another example. How about
the barbarian? Think of Battle Orders. There are plenty of people out
there who will only BO themselves (and whoever happens to be near, but
will not bother moving to BO anyone else or repeating it for people
who missed it). What would you think about a barbarian who refuses to
BO anyone else, announcing that he will be no one else's "lap-dog"? Is
that a good party player?

Or how about sorcs? What would you think about a sorc in a game with
lots of necros who keeps using glacial spike, so that there are no
corpses from non-immunes? (I use GS all the time in combination with
timered skills.) Of course, again, she will be no one's lap-dog and
won't change her playstyle because it would just benefit someone else
and hurt her ability to get "kills". Should she be playing in a party?

The problem what I was talking about are all these people who will
play as if they're in solo games (usually using a straight-off-some-
guide playstyle that's far from good for even solo games, never having
experimented with the skills themselves) and will be offended if
they're asked to, well, duh, party play. Also, I was whining about the
often related problem of people who attempt to play a delicate
character like a necro like it's a Meteor sorc [now this is not any
jab at sorcs, indeed the sorceress is *overwhelmingly* my favourite
character, but playing a Meteor sorc on Baal runs really isn't brain
surgery], ie. they come on a Baal run just to hang back and keep the
right mouse button (on AD) pushed down - and if all doesn't go well
with that "plan", announce that it's a "noob run" and leave.

>> What I'm talking about, here, are precisely those people who play in
>> parties exactly like they play solo and don't want to adjust their
>> playstyles to the strengths and weaknesses of the different characters
>> to make the PARTY stronger, because they want to do all the killing
>> themselves or whatever.
>
> Ahh, communism! Why didn't you say so in the first place?

What are you, an American?!?

>> Really, those people who think the game is a just
>> a killing contest should go play solo or make a hammerdin instead.
>
> Who said anything about a "killing contest"? All I'm saying is that, if I'm
> playing a skellimancer in a party I expect a bit of give and take. I don't
> expect to be dictated to and told to forget about AD and my pathetic skelly
> pack as they don't do anywhere near the damage that the sorcs or javazons

??? Who's dictating anything? I'm just saying that if you don't like
party play and like to play a solo style, play solo.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:02:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

I think it was "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> that wrote
something like...

>Whitedog wrote:
>> "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz> wrote in message
>> news:432e0d46$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
>>> Is that what everyone else in the party does too? A totally ego-less
>>> nirvana?
>>
>> The people I like to play with, yeah. There are plenty of people
>> that are anything but ego-less, but I tend to avoid them. I would
>> say however that the majority of the regulars in the agd games fit
>> your "egoless" profile.
>
>http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&v...
>
>"Main Entry: ego
>Function: noun
>Inflected Form(s): plural egos
>Etymology: New Latin, from Latin, I -- more at I
>1 : the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world.
>
>ego?less adjective."
>
>It is actually impossible to be ego-less (and not be comatose) and I'd
>venture to say not very desirable. A sheep is without ego (no NZ jokes
>please), a person is more fun to play Diablo with than a sheep. Therefore I
>assert that I'd rather play with people who have some ego, some sense of
>self, rather than people who simply do as they're told or what is expected
>of them.
>
>I can't see a party game of "totally ego-less" (my original term) players
>ever getting out of the rogues encampment.


<http://www.geocities.com/ashen_s/LeavingCamp.JPG&gt;


Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:29:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

RelMark <bsmith77(at)dreamscape(dot)com>, in a display of leetness, fell down
the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Now if while on this tab you raise too many skeletons, some will vanish
>> when you switch back, but the rest of their attributes will remain, and
>> you will have FAR better killing power and skeletons that never ever
>> die.
>
>This may be too obvious to mention, but you can add even a little more
>power by resummoning the army after hitting the first skill shrine you
>run across.
>
>Also, is this item really possible?
>> Necro head, +2 all, +3 SM +3 RS
>I remember reading, either here or in AGD2, that first-tier skills
>couldn't appear on items with an ilvl of 30 (I think) or above. Not sure
>how true this is, but I don't believe I've ever seen +skills and +RS/SM
>on the same item myself.

From here:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showt...

ilvl >= 37
tiers: 3/4/5/6
odds: 10%/20%/50%/20%

ilvl >= 25 && ilvl <= 36
tiers: 2/3/4/5
odds: 10%/20%/50%/20%

ilvl >= 19 && ilvl <= 24
tiers: 1/2/3/4
odds: 10%/20%/50%/20%

ilvl >= 12 && ilvl <= 18
tiers: 1/2/3
odds: 30%/50%/20%

ilvl <= 11
tiers: 1/2
odds: 80%/20%


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:38:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com>, in a display of leetness, fell
down the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Jaakko Raipala held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
>slrn4dipt4e.6k0t.raipala@rock.it.helsinki.fi to this Interweb chatroom:
>
>> Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> kirjoitti:
>>
>>> One thing that makes me cringe is necro players that use the same
>>> curse no matter what the situation. Sure, amplify damage is great
>>> for boosting damage or removing PI, but sometimes the melee
>>> characters in a group may like some life tap, or some dim vision,
>>> etc. And this coming from someone who rarely
>>
>> Not to mention the elemental damagers. On Baal runs you meet lots of
>> necros who never throw anything except AD, even when the party is so
>> full of sorceresses, trapsins and javazons that the skeletons' damage
>> is utterly irrelevant in comparison and the Amp doesn't have the time
>> to benefit the party at all. Most of them, when asked, say that they
>> haven't even put a point in Lower Resist and that is just criminal if
>> you want to play in parties (and, when asking further, rarely have
>> realized that LR helps CE, sometimes better than AD).
>>
>You would not believe some of the ignorance I've come across. In pubbie
>games, I almost automatically switch to LS in case of Necros or Hammerdins
>with Redemption. However, I actually met a Necro who was wearing...wait for
>it...
>
>Nature's Peace.
>
>> Even more annoying are the necro players who don't understand that
>> blowing up corpses prevents reviving. I no longer go to Hell Baal
>> runs, but when I did, I ran into many that simply collapsed due to a
>> reviver mummy pack and a nasty undead monster mix. Not surprising
>> given the attention span and skill of the average battle.netter
>> (souls! next game!), but several times it would've been trivial if any
>> of the necro players around would've simply known what their char can
>> do. The average battle.netter really doesn't know anything but the
>> cookie cutter game.

>AMEN!!! To prove a point, this season I am starting with a few cookie
>cutters, both because I can and because I don't have the gear to play
>variants yet. But generally, I try to be as different as possible, not only
>because it's challenging but also because it teaches more about the game and
>lesser-used skills (who knew Holy Fire actually KICKS ASS at level 38?)

And hell, who knew a zealing tankazon could solo hell in a large game, for
that matter.

I've started somewhat cookie cutter myself, so far, not true blue cookie
cutter, but as close as I usually get. :-)

The necromancer is of course, a meatgrinder, as mentioned in another thread.

My first paladin of the season is zeal/smite/fanaticism, but I also put a
solid investment in conviction and a litle salvation, to make him a more
flexiable animal for party play.

The barbarian plays as a concentrate barbarian... however, he has most of his
combat tree investment in berserk instead (shout, battle orders, and sword
mastery maxed, and he has about 6 hard points in howl, just for fun).

The sorceress is pseudo cookie cutter in the sense that she uses the commonly
played skills of fireball, meteor, and blizzard, although they're not usually
used on the same sorceress (she's 20 meteor, 20 fireball, 1 fire mastery, 20
blizzard, ~18 glacial spike, and the rest of her points in cold mastery).


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:45:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Whitedog" <email@email.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down the stairs,
tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>I hear you loud and clear. There was actually quite a bit of time that I
>simply refused to play with any necros. I agree with everything you stated,
>but one thing that also bothers me is what I call pussy necros. All they do
>is hide behind their minions and do nothing. How can anyone build a necro
>and not use CE?

I know! That's what a summoning druid is for anyway. :-)

Other things that make me cringe are:

Sorceresses that never EVER use static field, not even on high HP targets like
act bosses.

Barbarians that cry so infrequently that their BO/Shout/Battle Command is
regularly wearing off team mates.

Barbarians that never use Taunt and Battle Cry, some of the most useful one
pointers in the game. War Cry, Howl (mostly because this one bothers some
people used to playing a certain way), Grim Ward, etc I consider hugely
stylistic options in SC, but Taunt and Battle Cry are so useful and not off
the beaten path on the skill trees.

Paladins that frequently let their holy shield wear off.

And so on.


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:58:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahooters.co.nz>, in a display of leetness, fell down
the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

I see we've derailed Mickey's thread pretty fast. :-)

>That's why I don't play my necro in parties unless someone wants help with,
>say, the ancients or something. He's for MF and helping my other characters
>through, not for fun party play. That's what my strafeazon, pally and frenzy
>barb are for.

Point taken. I find a well played necromancer to be a pleasure to game with
in multiplayer, but a poorly played (not in the sense of how they've chosen to
allocate their skill points, as that's entirely up to them, but in the sense
of not adapting to a game) one has the potential to be a pain in the butt.
:-)

I do understand your points in this thread about wanting to share around the
killing a little in a party. But I think the importance of this varies
greatly from player to player. For example, I had a lot of fun playing medic
paladins in the pre-insight days. Such builds basically killing NOTHING in
multiplayer (they got a few kills in places with undead, but usually the rest
of the party were getting in most of the kill still), yet I still felt like I
was contributing to the war effort.

And I also know some players that mostly play melee paladins tend to feel a
bit "guilty" when play moves to areas filled with oblivion knights, as they
either have to play quite cautiously or switch to "lower offense" options.
But as long as they're providing some sort of aura, trying not to stir up too
many extra beasties, and are generally doing what they can for the situation,
they're a pleasure to game with.

That's the gist of cooperative play, for me... doing the best a character can
for the situation. The ability to kill quickly varies greatly from build to
build, and for different areas, but working to "fit in" is something that's
pretty constant.

>Likewise I've had my reservations about playing in parties with Blizz sorcs
>with my pally/barbs. There's nothing worse than running up to a bunch of
>monsters just to watch them all fall over to blizz. Over and over again.....

One way to look at is that the paladin/barbarian is filling in the gaps in the
single tree sorcreress' offense.

Hmmm, I've always viewed single tree sorceresses as MADE for parties (when
they're not doing port-to-act-boss runs in solo games). Sure, playing solo
and porting past the immune monsters or relying on the merc works well enough,
having the barb/pally take out the cold immunes makes the sorceress "fit" into
a party well enough.


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:59:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Zamboni" <thezambonis@gmail.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>I was in one large game, happily spamming Amp everywhere, but started to
>notice that the line was sagging and some of the other players were starting
>to take a beating from archers off the edge of the screen. I switch tabs and
>cast level-32 Dim Vision on the four corners of the screen, shutting
>everything down so we can better look at things.

>A small voice pipes up: "What the Hell was that?"
>Someone else: "Must be lag, all the monsters are frozen."

Hehehe, excellent!


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 1:25:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Whitedog" <email@email.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down the stairs,
tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>> So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing support
>> for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and there too?

>Its called smart party play. I had a poison necro last season. He has LR
>pumped up, but I always switched to amp to break PI's if there were melee
>characters in the party. That's the point of party play, you think about
>your party, then you.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily say it's literally a "them before you" situation,
in a party. After all, the essense of a good party is to make the game
enjoyable for yourself and not just everyone else. One thing I find though
is that I can get enjoyment from supporting the other players, in other words,
getting enjoyment from other people's enjoyment, and being a "back of the
pack" kind of character, but I can see how this can vary a lot from person to
person.


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
September 19, 2005 1:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:udmri11icsmmlnbe977rv8dh6ieo5af3mg@4ax.com...
> "Whitedog" <email@email.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs,
> tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...
>
> >> So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing
support
> >> for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and there too?
>
> >Its called smart party play. I had a poison necro last season. He has
LR
> >pumped up, but I always switched to amp to break PI's if there were melee
> >characters in the party. That's the point of party play, you think about
> >your party, then you.
>
> Well, I wouldn't necessarily say it's literally a "them before you"
situation,
> in a party. After all, the essense of a good party is to make the game
> enjoyable for yourself and not just everyone else. One thing I find
though
> is that I can get enjoyment from supporting the other players, in other
words,
> getting enjoyment from other people's enjoyment, and being a "back of the
> pack" kind of character, but I can see how this can vary a lot from person
to
> person.

You get enjoyment out of helping people? Aren't you supposed to be the the
aloof anti-social one? :) 
September 19, 2005 1:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:udmri11icsmmlnbe977rv8dh6ieo5af3mg@4ax.com...
>
> Well, I wouldn't necessarily say it's literally a "them before you"
> situation,
> in a party. After all, the essense of a good party is to make the game
> enjoyable for yourself and not just everyone else. One thing I find
> though
> is that I can get enjoyment from supporting the other players, in other
> words,
> getting enjoyment from other people's enjoyment, and being a "back of the
> pack" kind of character, but I can see how this can vary a lot from person
> to
> person.

Sometime I like to play the Superstar (and I play a Sorc), other times I
like to play the sidekick (my Shock Bear). But the Necro can do both roles,
heavy duty killer and support character, with the same build. I'm not going
to reply to all the posts in this thread, but essentially I disagree
strongly with Misfit. The Summoner is not taking a back seat when he defers
to the majority of the party and uses a curse that benefits them more than
himself. Rather, he is showing his versatility, and over all superiority, by
being flexible enough to adapt to the situation and shine regardless of his
companions.

> USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

Hey, what happened to the HC character? And what about your SPF single tree
character? How about an update on them?

Regards-
Mark

Bongo Fury
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 1:30:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> writes:
>trying not to stir up too
>many extra beasties,

So, what's the feeling about high-level Fire Golems in party play.
Supposedly their Holy Fire aura attracts monsters from very far. I
did not notice that when I played my last necro, but that was a very
long time ago; I am currently building a necro for party play, and
wonder if I should invest in Fire Golem or not.

- anton
--
Britton Robbins' D2 PDF Guides: http://www.brittonrobbins.com/D2Info.htm
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 1:30:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Anton Ertl" <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote in message
news:2005Sep19.113041@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at...
> So, what's the feeling about high-level Fire Golems in party play.
> Supposedly their Holy Fire aura attracts monsters from very far. I
> did not notice that when I played my last necro, but that was a very
> long time ago; I am currently building a necro for party play, and
> wonder if I should invest in Fire Golem or not.

It's aura does attract monsters, but even if it didn't, Clay Golem's slowing
effect is more useful as far as golems go, so I STILL wouldn't invest in
Fire Golem(my necro has a point there, but that's solely for annoying fire
sorcs in PvP).

> - anton
> --
> Britton Robbins' D2 PDF Guides: http://www.brittonrobbins.com/D2Info.htm
September 19, 2005 2:20:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

>>> So they should just take a back-seat and be relegated to providing
>>> support for the others? Maybe they want to get a kill in here and
>>> there too?
>
>> Its called smart party play. I had a poison necro last season. He
>> has LR pumped up, but I always switched to amp to break PI's if
>> there were melee characters in the party. That's the point of party
>> play, you think about your party, then you.
>
> Well, I wouldn't necessarily say it's literally a "them before you"
> situation, in a party. After all, the essense of a good party is to
> make the game enjoyable for yourself and not just everyone else.
> One thing I find though is that I can get enjoyment from supporting
> the other players, in other words, getting enjoyment from other
> people's enjoyment, and being a "back of the pack" kind of character,
> but I can see how this can vary a lot from person to person.

I also used to get a lot of enjoyment playing my "battery pack" paladin back
in 1.09, no real killing ability but geared up with big + skills so that
both fanat and conv were running in mid 30's. I usually found myself paired
with either a couple of zons or a sorc.

Craig
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:51:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Whitedog" <email@email.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down the stairs,
tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>You get enjoyment out of helping people? Aren't you supposed to be the the
>aloof anti-social one? :) 

They named the Enigma rune word after me!


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>First 1.10 ladder I had a wand with +2 SM +3 RS +2 CE, bought AT
>Drognan's.

Yes, but Brian is refering to not being able to get +2 to ALL Necromancer
Skills innately on a wand that also has tier 1 or 2 skills on it, which it
would seem you were suggesting in your original post.


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
September 19, 2005 4:14:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1127128401.169747.283620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> ANyone who has ever played with me when I am in necro mode will tell
> you that I play about as agressive a necro as is possible. I am usually
> the one out in front of the party (espeically now that we actually HAVE
> to walk down to Baal),

We do?
!