Chaintech VNF3-250 manual error?

Squidmaster · Jun 20, 2004

As a first-time builder, I'm having some serious difficulties with the connections from the front panel of my case (Antec P160) matching up with the board. First of all, the board itself has no "corresponding" labels, but the manual does for what appears to be the correct location. (There aren't that many choices, and only the one has the same amount of pins as shown in the manual.) Anyway, I have no idea how to connect the power led to the board, as the manual shows the P-LED pins as being separated by an unused pin, but the power led connector from the case can only fit on adjacent pins.

Here's a link to the board website, with the manual being a clear link from there. The part I'm looking at is the CN1A (Front Panel Connector) and looks just like my paper manual.
<A HREF="http://www.chaintechusa.com/tw/eng/product_spec.asp?MPSNo=13&PISNo=276 " target="_new">http://www.chaintechusa.com/tw/eng/product_spec.asp?MPSNo=13&PISNo=276 </A>

Thanks all.

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Cybercraig · Jun 20, 2004

Great, now you ask me! I just delivered one yesterday. The manual sucks, but look carefully at the way the buss is layed out. There is always a missing pin. Set-up your board so it is the same orientation as the manual. Remember that the red wires are always +. I'll check back.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Squidmaster · Jun 21, 2004

Yeah, I feel confident about where the front panel elements meet up on the board, but not where the individual ones go. The manual suggests that some go "horizontally" (fitting across the narrow part of the pins, filling both of the row of 2) and some go "vertically" (the long way, only on one "side" if that makes sense.) It also suggests that several elements, not least of which is the power led connectors, spans across more than just two adjacent pins. That's not technically possible with the case connectors I have.

Also, everything stresses how important it is to make sure x or y element goes to ground, but there isn't any clear way to tell what pins *are* ground (some are labeled + and - in the manual, but that is all.) The P160 case manual tells you clearly to make sure all the black cables go to ground, but there are no black cables, just colored and white ones. I'm going on the assumption that black means white, as ludicrous as that may sound, since each connector that spans two pins has a white cable as well as a random color cable.

Since you just got this board, can you tell me where the audio and firewire ports go? I'm having trouble finding them.

Thanks.

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Cybercraig · Jun 21, 2004

You'll look long and hard for the Fire-wire Ports, because, they are not there! No 1394 on this board. The audio ports come off of the Chaintech Media Audio Riser card that should have been in your box. The sound buss is way in the back and has two default jumpers in place for directing all sound to the rear ports. There is a Mic, Ground, L, R, etc. The manual absolutely sucks here as it doesn't describe the function of anything. Here is the way I think it works, as we had no time to test it yesterday before my nephew caught his plane. Pull the default jumpers off and connect your front audio ports there. There should be left, right, and a common. You'll have to play with it. There is no help available on the web-site. You'll have to E-mail them if you get stuck. There is a mic-in and a ground on the other side. I don't have a [-peep-] clue what the other pin is for. I can help you with the USB's if you need it. Good luck. The good news is once you get it running it is quiet cool and very fast.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Squidmaster · Jun 21, 2004

So I should connect the front panel audio stuff to the ones you're talking about? Is this still true if I plug in my SB Audigy card? Being a first time builder, I'm figuring it's probably best to leave the sound card out to upgrade and test and so forth, but that leaves me in the dark as to what plugs go where. I really have no idea if I should plug some of my front panel connectors into that card ultimately. I'm pretty confident without double checking that the audigy has built in firewire. Would it allow me to connect to the front panel?

I have the riser plugged in already, but I assumed I wouldn't be using it once I had my Audigy in place.

Is there any reason to route the sound to the front panel? I can see this being something that might be done from the audigy card, not the motherboard, but I don't know.

I think the usb thing isn't an issue, as long as my connector powers 2 usb ports on the front, which I believe it does. I only have one way to install that, as it's all fused into one connector (thankfully, I might add.)

My giant issue at present is with the power and led connectors on the bottom right of the board. The documentation must simply be wrong on this issue. I've described my troubles with that further up this thread. If you can help out with which plugs go where, that'd be great.

Crashman · Jun 21, 2004

Blame Asus, the CUSL2 was the first board I saw with the power LED's adjacent, standard was 3-pin with the center pin unused. Now that cases have caught up with 4 year old motherboards, the boards are mostly back to normal!

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Jun 21, 2004

Oh, BTW, go buy some bun length hotdogs and hotdog length buns and see how they fit!

The thing that REALLY pisses me off is that car companies started making drink holders for large cups around 10 years ago, followed by cup companies making small bottom cups to fit car drink holders. You put a small bottomed cup in a less-than 10 year old car, it falls over!

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Cybercraig · Jun 21, 2004

If you use the Audigy card just disable the on-board sound in BIOS. I can't understand the problem with the front switches you are having. Are they labeled like <A HREF="http://www.lvcoyote.com/" target="_new">this?</A> You picked a doozy of a board to start out with, but to tell you the truth, I didn't find the ABIT NF7-S Manual that great either. I don't know if your Audigy has front connectors or not. The fronts are normally used for headphones when playing games. The front USB's are good for a lot of things. Why would your Audigy card have a Firewire port?

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Squidmaster · Jun 21, 2004

First off, to be honest, I don't even know what a firewire port gets used for. I certainly haven't used it. I just figured I'd try to set everything up as directed in the P160 manual. Heck, I may not even have front mounted firewire, as I wasn't looking at the book at the time of writing.

Your link didn't go directly to the diagram you wanted, but it didn't take long to find it. Mine looks more or less like that, and at least close enough for these purposes. The board doesn't have labels that make sense like that (they're more in the RF345 kind of area in terms of labeling) but the manual has the labels. The trouble is, my power led connector is a one-piece affair, not two cables with individual connectors. It's technically impossible to put this connector in ports with a space in between. They must be adjacent.

Crash, I appreciate the commentary, but you're seeming to indicate that I can't connect these things at all. I find that hard to believe, and if true, a major lapse in design. I'm kind of screwed in this case.

In terms of + and - labels, the manual doesn't do a great job with it, but it has some of them. My trouble is with knowing which wires go where. My case manual specifies placing black cables in certain spots, when there are no black cables in my case. My limited understanding is that most electrical wiring follows a basic standard though, and white could be '-' for this purpose. Is this correct? There sure isn't any way to tell from the manuals. If I'm wrong, what's right?

I was already planning to disable the onboard sound in bios. I've done that before. Does that make the add-on riser card obsolete, or should I install that too?

As an aside, for any looking to buy the Antec P160 case, beware the rubber grommets that connect the rear fan. I'm quite the careful fellow, and I managed to break off 2 of the 4 during attempted installation, with a 3rd pretty much declared dead. These things are *way* too flimsy to be able to pull or push through to lock in place. I've emailed rma at Antec to see if I can find out about getting replacements, and plenty of them, as I'm pretty sure it'll take luck to get them through without breaking. It has little to do with skill or expertise.

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Cybercraig · Jun 21, 2004

OK, check this out:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

a b c d e f g X h

pins 1 and a are to the back of your case. Pin 1 is toward the CPU. 1 and a are not used unless you want a manual suspent button. Next we have b and 2. This is your HD activity LED. If it doesn't work, turn the plug around. Next we have 3 and c. C is the negative pin for your power LED and 3,4,5,6 are for your 4 pin speaker plug. D is unused and cover by the Power LED plug. E is your + pin for the power LED. Next is F & G. These are the pins for your power switch. It doesn't matter which way you put the plug in. Up above you have 7 & 8 for the reset switch. There again, it doesn't matter which way you put the plug on them. 9 is unused and h is unused. The missing pin is between g & h. Put the wires on this way and it will work. I had no issues with this at all. If you still can't power up, you have other issues maybe Crash can help you with. I've got to crash myself.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Cybercraig · Jun 21, 2004

And yes, you won't need the Riser card if you use the Audigy. It is only there for sound.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Squidmaster · Jun 22, 2004

Good info, thanks. I had no idea that polarity just didn't matter for some of the plugs. I assumed it was poor documentation. I'll take out the rizer card as well.. I have all my plugs in the setup you describe, with one exception. My power led is only two pins wide. It can't be split apart. I'm going on the assumption that if I fill the '+' pin and the one next to it (your unused 'D') that would work. Otherwise, it can't be done. Make sense? I can take pictures if need be without much trouble.

I have 7 audio connectors, all with individual connectors. Should I connect these to the audigy card when the time comes instead of the audio spots on the motherboard?

The audigy board does have firewire, and I assume I can match up the pins once I find the documentation for the board online. I saw where the pins are, so it's just a matter of finding labels.

Other than having to find another way to attach the case fan, everything else has been easy. I've done card and drive swapping before, so really the only hurdle was the motherboard installation and connection with the case. The trouble with doing this for the first time is that you're assumed to know certain things already, such as not needing to worry about polarities in some places, and which screws to use on your motherboard risers when 4 kinds fit.

I really appreciate your help with this. Once I can square away the items at the top, I'll be ready to embark on booting and setup of a RAID 0 array, followed by much praying during testing.

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Cybercraig · Jun 22, 2004

It's not that polarity doesn't matter, it's just that some of the plugs are just switches to make or break momentarilly. Try cutting your power LED plug in two. Polarity does matter here. You need to have it on both the + and - sides which you can't span with your plug. If worse comes to worse, buy the right plug at an electronics store and change it. There are 3 extra on-board fan connectors. Use them if you have 3 pin fans. Install your SATA drives one at a time or you will have to load the SATA drivers off of a floppy you will have to create from the driver disc. Good luck!

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Zeekfu · Jun 22, 2004

Sounds like from reading through these post about the difficulty with the power switch connection crash's idea was on the money.

As I understand it:
-Going from Craig's diagram you have c d e and the power switch connection is supposed to plug into c and e where d is an empyt slot.
-Your power switch to mobo connection is a solid plug and only has two holes it in. Whereas for the plug to work as intended you either need a plug that is three pins wide or two individual plugs.

If I am understanding this correctly I guess one solution would be to find an old case and splice two individual plug ins or one three pin plug in.

Is it possible you have both connections to your power switch? I always check the simplest thing first. Going from what Crash said it looks like they would have designed it both ways. Just a thought. The other idea I would have is if it works out to do it this way and it won't annoy you too badly you could just switch reset and power up. On my generic white case they aren't really labled anyway although the power on button is certainly larger and more convenient whereas the reset is a pretty slender button nestled underneath.

Edited by zeekfu on 06/21/04 08:55 PM.

Squidmaster · Jun 22, 2004

Jeez, that's just great. How does one go about cutting a tiny piece of plastic in two without damaging the wires or the case itself in the process?

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Squidmaster · Jun 22, 2004

Yes, that's exactly the problem. I triple checked for a possible second power led connector to no avail, but good idea just the same. The only spare case I have around also contains a spare motherboard, hard drive, and disk drives, so I'm hesitant to cut the cord on that one. How exactly does one splice the cords and get a replacement to work? I plan to see if I can pick up a 3 hole connector at a local computer shop, but I'm unsure as to how I should proceed from there. I would just live without the lED and run the thing to test and all if it weren't for the fan attachment issue. This is getting crazy. No explosions yet though.

I also figured it would work best to install the RAID drivers to floppy, since I was going to have to do that for the SATA ones already. This new comp won't have any standard IDE hard drives in it, so the drivers have to go on disk right out of the gate. Does it even work to set one up, then later make it a RAID 1 setup with another drive anyway?

Can anyone confirm the safety of plugging the firewire cables into my SB Audigy? The Audigy version I have has both an external firewire port and an internal one with the proper pin labels it turns out (had to do some major searching for that I might add.)

This is a bit of a tangent, but are they any ideas out there for how to connect my fan now that the rubber grommets are broken? If possible I'd like to preserve the vibration absorption some way or another, possibly by padding a screw with something and screwing it into a nut on the other side (x4 of course). That's all I have to work with at present.

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Cybercraig · Jun 22, 2004

PM Crashman and see if he'll send you one. I'm sure he has a bunch laying around. I just checked and I don't! Do it right!

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Cybercraig · Jun 22, 2004

If you use XP-Pro you can plug in the SATA's, once you boot from the XP disc you can hit F6 to load the drivers from the floppy when prompted. You need to put your CD as a slave on the secondary IDE port for this to work. Don't ask me why. I do like Zeek's idea of making up the cable you need for the power LED. I like everything to work right! The firewire port on the Audigy probably connects to a video card. Rock on!

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Squidmaster · Jun 22, 2004

... send me one of which? The connector or the fan grommet?

I'm using XP home. Is the process different there?

On a related note, I just checked over the driver cd, and there are 3 or 4 different RAID folders, each with similar filenames, such as the mandatory textsetup.oem. I also just downloaded the latest drivers from the Chaintech site, which has a very different RAID folder, but also with textsetup.oem. I'm thinking killing spree.

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Cybercraig · Jun 22, 2004

Home should work fine. Yes, Crash probably has the plug and the grommets. You now need to go <A HREF="http://forums.anandtech.com/searchresults.cfm" target="_new">here</A> when you are ready to load. The file you need is on the driver CD but it is damn hard to find.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Cybercraig · Jun 22, 2004

Use the link, go to motherboards, type in VNF3-250 and search, read the way schneids loaded his up.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!

Squidmaster · Jun 22, 2004

That's just the info I'll need, but the link doesn't work, as it requires variables to be passed to something on the other end. Can I get a fresh one?

<edit> I think I found the link to which you were referring by Google searching. Is it on the AnandTech forums? I found one there with detailed instructions, which seem quite lame to be frank, but if it works, I'm ok with it.

 Do you have a chicken hat? Edited by Squidmaster on 06/22/04 01:45 AM.

Squidmaster · Jun 23, 2004

Is there such a thing as a two to three pin connector adapter, or something along those lines? If I can get my two pin connector fit into a two pin male end that splits to a three end female end, I'm set.

BTW, Antec is sending 4 replacement grommets. When I gave them my address I mentioned this pin issue, so we'll see if that gets me anywhere. In the meantime, I think I should petition the Tom's Hardware crew to set me up my own dedicated forum for this stuff.

Do you have a chicken hat?

Zeekfu · Jun 23, 2004

There might be some adaptor like that.

Actually splicing is simple enough you just clip it, carefully skin the insulation of the wires on each end, tie em and wrap em with a piece of electrical tape for good measure. It just makes a simple connection, it is not like it is a dangerous or hazardous voltage. It is a very tiny wire so it may be hard to do without catching a few strands of wire when you strip the insulation, unless you have a wire stripper that will strip that small a gauge of wire. However if would rather not do that or you can't find two single pin plug ins to splice to it, I have two (well actually three other ideas)
1. I actually misunderstood I thought it was the power on not power led--so you could just leave it off-or leave it off till you find a solution you like better.

2. I think you could split that plug pretty easily if you are careful about it. Mainly I would be careful not to cut yourself. I just took a look at one. The plug has a place for three pins to fit in but only has two wires, one on each side, right? So you could take a pair of vice grips or needle nose vice grips and adjust them just right so they hold it (longways) but don't crush it. Then you could take say a saw blade out of a gerber or leatherman or perhaps a hobby knife or razor (just be really careful to not cut yourself it you use a razor because it will be slick plastic on slick razor) and carefull saw/cut through the middle plug which doesn't have a wire. Cut it through, take a little sandpaper, or a file (piece of rock, your fingernail...) and smooth it up so you have made the two individial plugs you want and viola.
OK SCRATCH TWO CAUSE YOUR PROBLEM IS GOING from two to three not the other way around. Sorry, didn't read carefully (again)

3. Find the plug you need. I am sure one of these guys that has a room full of cables and wires and old boxes that are too ugly to use for anything but a chair would have what you need and could drop it in an envelope and send it your way. Then even if you don't want to splice the one on your box how bout this: Skin the wires back on the two individual connectors, double em over and plug em in the two slots. You have just made your adaptor. Maybe you can just find your adaptor at radio shack or something anyway.

Happily applying red-neck mechanical skilz to delicate computer components.

Remember if it doesn't work a hammer is the ultimate fixing tool.

Squidmaster · Jun 25, 2004

This never ends. I was able to get the right pin connector, remove the 2 pin one, and plug in the three. I'm waiting on replacement fan grommets from Antec, but have installed the fan using bread ties (pretty solid for now.)

Now I'm trying to install Windows. I read all about setting up RAID on various forums, made a disk with the drivers, set everything up in BIOS, and started. Thing is, after I press F6 in setup and get to the point where I can press S to add new devices, the floppy won't read. Worse yet, if I put the floppy back into my working system to check it out, it reads as if it hasn't been formatted. I've tried this many times, and finally got around the format problem by write-protecting the disk, but it still won't read, and consequently won't install Windows.

What the heck is this? I know the floppy drive works already.

Thanks as usual.

 Do you have a chicken hat?

Chaintech VNF3-250 manual error?

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