"Meatgrinder" necromancers and Dim Vision

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I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a few
hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with items,
now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop pumping it
up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just keep on
pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the points?

Thanks.


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:b4kpi19siu9gg3kn19ulceh83ik64dqks8@4ax.com...
>I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
> this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a
> few
> hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with
> items,
> now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop
> pumping it
> up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just
> keep on
> pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the
> points?
>
I pumped mine all the way up on my last two builds. Hell difficulty cuts the
duration by a siginificant amount, so you need points for both radius and
duration. My last was at level 32, which was enough get the radius to extend
a way off-screen, making Spear Cats and Burning Souls mostly harmless. (And
no, I couldn't really see a need to put points anywhere else. You want the
other curses small so they don't cancel Dim Vision.)
--
Zamboni

 

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On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, Stephen van Ham wrote:

>> I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
>> this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a few
>> hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with items,
>> now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop pumping it
>> up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just keep on
>> pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the points?
>>
>> Thanks.

Pump it until things stop shooting at you from off screen more than you
can handle. ActV Hell area 1 Bloody Hills is the testing ground.

Another skill worth pumping is Confusion... gets the OKs cursing and
hitting everything near them because confused critters have NO friends.

Confuse Baal Minion packs, and Baal thinks the wave is over as soon as
the un-confusable leader of the pack(s) is/are dead.

--

Chaos Empire mod: Webwalker

 

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Stephen van Ham wrote:
> I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
> this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a few
> hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with items,
> now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop pumping it
> up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just keep on
> pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the points?
>
> Thanks.

Not me, I'd dump some points into Revives. While they are not needed in
most places, where they ARE needed they come in VERY handy, such as
around OKs or any uber boss.

Mickey

 

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"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:b4kpi19siu9gg3kn19ulceh83ik64dqks8@4ax.com...
>I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
> this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a
> few
> hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with
> items,
> now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop
> pumping it
> up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just
> keep on
> pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the
> points?

I absolutely LOVE a big DV. Max it if you can. Nothing like shutting down
everything within the time zone, then selectively using the lower level
curses to deal with the close in enemies. Lately I've been putting only 15
hard points into CE (rather than maxing it), this give a good AoE while
keeping the mana cost down. Then I have more points for DV and other good
curses like LR and Attract (another favorite).

Regards-
Mark

Bongo Fury

 

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"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1127081793.793415.81470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Not me, I'd dump some points into Revives. While they are not needed in
> most places, where they ARE needed they come in VERY handy, such as
> around OKs or any uber boss.

I disagree, Revive is a one point (plus skills) wonder for me. The points
are MUCH better spent in some of the AI curses like Attract, and Confuse.

Regards-
Mark

Bongo Fury

 

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"Mark" <bongofury@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:MkoXe.5848$i86.473@trndny01...
> I disagree, Revive is a one point (plus skills) wonder for me. The points
> are MUCH better spent in some of the AI curses like Attract, and Confuse.

I agree as well at least about the Revives. More than 1 point in Revive is a
waste IMO. My summoner can raise 21 revives with just 1 point in the skill,
and even then I rarely have more than a dozen with me(and in some areas, I
don't even bother with revives at all). But I've never used Attract or
Confuse, nor have I needed them either, so I can't rightfully say the points
would be MUCH better spent there, though I would think them better there
than in Revive.

> Regards-
> Mark
>
> Bongo Fury
>
>

 

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Mark wrote:
> "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1127081793.793415.81470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Not me, I'd dump some points into Revives. While they are not needed in
> > most places, where they ARE needed they come in VERY handy, such as
> > around OKs or any uber boss.
>
> I disagree, Revive is a one point (plus skills) wonder for me. The points
> are MUCH better spent in some of the AI curses like Attract, and Confuse.

I have all of those AND 22 revives, AND 17 points in the bank. Curses
rarely need more than one point, as all they gain from more points is
radius and duration, both of which are more or less useless given that
they can be cast as often as needed given their mana cost. In my setup,
I have the following:

Weapon: +2 all skills (spirit sword)
Shield: +2 All skills +2 Curses (Homunculus)
Armor: +1 all skills (Viper)
Hat: +2 all skills (Shako)
Belt: +1 all skills (arachnid's)
Amulet: +2 all skills (rare necro ammy)

That gives me +12 to curses without any charms or rings. That is QUITE
sufficient for any needs, especially as you start to power level, as
the keep is not a place given to huge expanses. The ONLY curses that
get more than just AoE or time with more points are IM, which is
useless after NM mode, and LR and SR, which flatten out their yield
curve at around level 15 or so.

Mickey

 

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"Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net> wrote in message
news:4%qXe.21694$tc7.9251@fe03.lga...
>
> But I've never used Attract or
> Confuse, nor have I needed them either, so I can't rightfully say the
> points
> would be MUCH better spent there, though I would think them better there
> than in Revive.

All the Curses are great if used in the right situation.You don't HAVE to
use all the curses, but you should.

 

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"Mark" <bongofury@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:zbrXe.15453$Zg5.7735@trndny05...
>
> All the Curses are great if used in the right situation.You don't HAVE to
> use all the curses, but you should.

Wait, I "should" use them? OOC, why should I use them? If I have no problems
using my current curses(Amp, Decrep, LR, or IM depending on situation, ie,
solo, partied, or PvP) why should I spend skill points pumping other curses?
For example, if gloams and archers do not kill me(or come close to killing
me) or my minions with my current curses, why bother Dimming them? I suppose
it could help the party, but I tend to avoid party play unless I'm leveling,
in which case someone(sometimes me) teleports to the throne so fast there's
not really an opportunity to Dim things. I guess I should add that my
summoner is equipped with a full load of godly/uber gear(in terms of trade
value, my necro would probably be my most expensive character) so I usually
DON'T have a need for ALL the curses, I can survive and kill quite fine
without them. A necro on ladder for example without all that may find a use
for all the curses, me, I kill fast and I never come close to dying, so
there's no reason for me to use curses that reduce my killing speed(unless
they increase the killing speed of my party, ie LR in a sorc heavy team).
And Attract and Confuse strike me as even less useful than DV does. If I
take my necro to 93(I'm sure eventually he'll get there, since I tend to use
him as my MF char, so enough Baal runs and he'll get there even if he
doesn't join pubbies) I'll put a point in DV(1 hard point will take it to
lvl 20) just to see if I find any use for it. Attract and Confuse I still
won't bother with though.

 

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Brian Brunner <brian.brunner@verizon.net.prophet>, in a display of leetness,
fell down the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at
Baal...

>On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, Stephen van Ham wrote:
>
>>> I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
>>> this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a few
>>> hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with items,
>>> now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop pumping it
>>> up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just keep on
>>> pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the points?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>
>Pump it until things stop shooting at you from off screen more than you
>can handle. ActV Hell area 1 Bloody Hills is the testing ground.

Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm mostly playing in the keep/pit with the
wee lad at the moment, and find level 15 DV pretty good for shutting down
gloams and other ranged attackers. I can still fit in a few more points in
the skill before leveling up will stop, so I might just go ahead and do that
anyway, indeed. I feel like I've "overcooked" his Revive skill a little, as
he has that at level 21 after items (which I forgot to mention in the other
post), so if I rebuild at some point, I might lower the investment in there a
little. It was hard to stop though as I find Revives far more interesting
and varied than skeletons.

>Another skill worth pumping is Confusion... gets the OKs cursing and
>hitting everything near them because confused critters have NO friends.

>Confuse Baal Minion packs, and Baal thinks the wave is over as soon as
>the un-confusable leader of the pack(s) is/are dead.

Okay, thanks again, Brian and Zamboni (and anyone else that made a response
that hasn't arrived on my server yet)


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>
>Stephen van Ham wrote:
>> I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
>> this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a few
>> hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with items,
>> now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop pumping it
>> up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just keep on
>> pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the points?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>Not me, I'd dump some points into Revives. While they are not needed in
>most places, where they ARE needed they come in VERY handy, such as
>around OKs or any uber boss.

Sorry about that, I forgot to mention that I have Revive at level 21 after
items.

--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>I have to say, I'm really loving Dim Vision on my "meatgrinder" necromancer
>this season. Of course, not having any fancy smancy gear, I put quite a few
>hard points into the curse to get the radius up (it's at level 15 with items,
>now). What I'm wondering is, at what level do people usually stop pumping it
>up? Note that I already have SM, RS, and CE maxed out. Do you just keep on
>pumping it up simply because you have nowhere else to really put the points?

Sorry for the confusion about skill points.

My skills are currently as follows:

Dim Vision 15 after items.
Revive 21 after items.
Raise Skeleton, Skeleton Mastery, CE - 20 hard points each.
Other curses and summoning skills are at one hard point each.

Gear is currently:

Carin Shard
Vipermagi/4 topaz armour for ghetto MF
Homunculus with a pdiamond
A saucy little rare hat with +2 all necro and resist all
A saucy little rare amulet with +2 P&B, resist all, and MF
Random rare belt
Nagelring
Random rare ring
Rare booties with dual resistances, faster run, MF
1 summoning skill charm
1 curses skill charm

On weapon switch is a spellsteel, for ghetto teleport.


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

[mark]

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"Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net> wrote in message
news:aMxXe.10647$6Z3.6743@fe06.lga...
>
> Wait, I "should" use them? OOC, why should I use them? If I have no
> problems
> using my current curses(Amp, Decrep, LR, or IM depending on situation, ie,
> solo, partied, or PvP) why should I spend skill points pumping other
> curses?

The more tools you have available in your box, and that you can use
effectively, the better mechanic you are.

> For example, if gloams and archers do not kill me(or come close to killing
> me) or my minions with my current curses, why bother Dimming them?

These monsters usually spawn in groups. By hitting them with DV they stay in
their tight packs, rather than deploying to fire or running off when you
approach. Then your army can envelop them and kill them quicker. Or they
stay closer together so you can blow them with CE.

Sure, you don't NEED to do this. But it's an option, and sometimes it makes
things easier/quicker.

Regards-
Mark

Bongo Fury

 

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"Mark" <bongofury@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:rNFXe.5623$e_4.1043@trndny08...

> These monsters usually spawn in groups. By hitting them with DV they stay
in
> their tight packs, rather than deploying to fire or running off when you
> approach.

I teleport, so no matter how fast they run I move faster. Plus, by
teleporting on the center of the pack, the army can swarm out and envelop
them that way just as well.

> Then your army can envelop them and kill them quicker. Or they
> stay closer together so you can blow them with CE.

And I haven't had a problem with my CE as is, so I see no reason I should do
it. I see your reasons for it, but I do not find it necessary. With lesser
gear perhaps, but not at my necro's current state.

> Sure, you don't NEED to do this. But it's an option, and sometimes it
makes
> things easier/quicker.

Calling them an option is fine, I only took issue with your statement that I
"should" be using them all, as if the way I play now is wrong.

> Regards-
> Mark
>
> Bongo Fury
>
>

 

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"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1127129051.425507.113640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> I have all of those AND 22 revives, AND 17 points in the bank. Curses
> rarely need more than one point, as all they gain from more points is
> radius and duration, both of which are more or less useless given that
> they can be cast as often as needed given their mana cost. In my setup,
> I have the following:
>
> Weapon: +2 all skills (spirit sword)
> Shield: +2 All skills +2 Curses (Homunculus)
> Armor: +1 all skills (Viper)
> Hat: +2 all skills (Shako)
> Belt: +1 all skills (arachnid's)
> Amulet: +2 all skills (rare necro ammy)
>
> That gives me +12 to curses without any charms or rings. That is QUITE
> sufficient for any needs, especially as you start to power level, as
> the keep is not a place given to huge expanses. The ONLY curses that
> get more than just AoE or time with more points are IM, which is
> useless after NM mode, and LR and SR, which flatten out their yield
> curve at around level 15 or so.

Yes, but in his original post Stephen specifically said he does not have
this type of equipment. So it's not relevant to the discussion at hand. Now
if we we're talking about the same question from a power gamers perspective
....

Regards-
Mark

Bongo Fury

 

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On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, "Shiflet" wrote:

>> "Mark" wrote i
>> > I disagree, Revive is a one point (plus skills) wonder for me. The points
>> > are MUCH better spent in some of the AI curses like Attract, and Confuse.
>>
>> I agree as well at least about the Revives. More than 1 point in Revive is a
>> waste IMO.

In Chaos Empire, points in Revive increase their life in time as well as
in points, as well as increasing the damage they do (like SM increases
their damage). In straight D2LOD, 1 point has usually been enough.

>> But I've never used Attract or Confuse

These two skills are a blast because confused or attracted monsters have
NO friends. This means they lose the nearby Boss's auras, and they get
attacked by him. Wanna watch Lister smack on his fellow creeps?
sprinkle them with Confusion and stand back (and use ranged weapons).

Use AD first, which gets them all, then Confusion which gets all but
Lister. So now they all attack him, he takes double damage, and you
nuke them from screen edge. Fun for the whole party.

 

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"Brian Brunner" <brian.brunner@verizon.net.prophet> wrote in message
news:coiui19sgte1c8f3f5rb3unq9htorh1764@4ax.com...

> In Chaos Empire, points in Revive increase their life in time as well as
> in points, as well as increasing the damage they do (like SM increases
> their damage). In straight D2LOD, 1 point has usually been enough.

I do not play mods, good to know they make adding more to Revive useful.

> >> But I've never used Attract or Confuse
>
> These two skills are a blast because confused or attracted monsters have
> NO friends. This means they lose the nearby Boss's auras, and they get
> attacked by him. Wanna watch Lister smack on his fellow creeps?
> sprinkle them with Confusion and stand back (and use ranged weapons).

I'd rather watch my guys smack on Lister AND his creeps, and do more damage
in the process.

> Use AD first, which gets them all, then Confusion which gets all but
> Lister. So now they all attack him, he takes double damage, and you
> nuke them from screen edge. Fun for the whole party.

But I don't wanna just kill Lister, I wanna wipe out the whole pack. And
it's quicker to wipe out the whole pack if they're Amped(or Lower Resisted,
if in elemental based parties).

 

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On 19 Sep 2005, "Mickey" wrote:

>> Curses
>> rarely need more than one point, as all they gain from more points is
>> radius and duration,

I guess Lower Resists and Iron Maiden being 2 of 10 meet the "rarely"
notion.

 

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"Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net> wrote in message
news:C_HXe.15069$Q71.11868@fe02.lga...
>
> I teleport, so no matter how fast they run I move faster. Plus, by
> teleporting on the center of the pack, the army can swarm out and envelop
> them that way just as well.

But when there are other groups nearby you will activate them and they will
start to scatter. DV lets you get to each group while they're still intact.

> Calling them an option is fine, I only took issue with your statement that
> I
> "should" be using them all, as if the way I play now is wrong.

Well I thought we were discussing 'Meatgrinder'/'Fishymancer' Necros in
general. Not your specific, end game character decked out in optimal gear.
In any discussion there is always an exception, and your character is a
walking exception. Not too much in a general discussion will apply to him.

Regards-
Mark

Bongo Fury

 

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"Mark" <bongofury@verizon.net> wrote in message
newsoKXe.6344$N35.6297@trndny09...

> But when there are other groups nearby you will activate them and they
will
> start to scatter.

Not fast enough, trust me.

> Not too much in a general discussion will apply to him.

Aye, but it was me specifically that you told "should" be using every
curse...

> Regards-
> Mark

 

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"Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>
>"Mark" <bongofury@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:MkoXe.5848$i86.473@trndny01...
>> I disagree, Revive is a one point (plus skills) wonder for me. The points
>> are MUCH better spent in some of the AI curses like Attract, and Confuse.
>
>I agree as well at least about the Revives. More than 1 point in Revive is a
>waste IMO. My summoner can raise 21 revives with just 1 point in the skill,
>and even then I rarely have more than a dozen with me(and in some areas, I
>don't even bother with revives at all). But I've never used Attract or
>Confuse, nor have I needed them either, so I can't rightfully say the points
>would be MUCH better spent there, though I would think them better there
>than in Revive.

Yep, off-ladder with a five year warchest, I'd imagine there are all sorts of
skills that can end up at crazy levels with just one hard point. ;-)


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Mark wrote:

>> I disagree, Revive is a one point (plus skills) wonder for me. The points
>> are MUCH better spent in some of the AI curses like Attract, and Confuse.

>I have all of those AND 22 revives, AND 17 points in the bank. Curses
>rarely need more than one point, as all they gain from more points is
>radius and duration, both of which are more or less useless given that
>they can be cast as often as needed given their mana cost. In my setup,
>I have the following:

>Weapon: +2 all skills (spirit sword)
>Shield: +2 All skills +2 Curses (Homunculus)
>Armor: +1 all skills (Viper)
>Hat: +2 all skills (Shako)
>Belt: +1 all skills (arachnid's)
>Amulet: +2 all skills (rare necro ammy)

>That gives me +12 to curses without any charms or rings. That is QUITE
>sufficient for any needs, especially as you start to power level, as
>the keep is not a place given to huge expanses. The ONLY curses that
>get more than just AoE or time with more points are IM, which is
>useless after NM mode, and LR and SR, which flatten out their yield
>curve at around level 15 or so.

Some interesting and quite diverse opinions. Keep em coming, all.


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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"Mark" <bongofury@verizon.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Yes, but in his original post Stephen specifically said he does not have
>this type of equipment. So it's not relevant to the discussion at hand. Now
>if we we're talking about the same question from a power gamers perspective

I'm getting there, slowly. I have +8 to curses at the moment (+9 with the
vipermagi on), and 7 hard points in DV, giving level 15 overall (16 with the
vipermagi).


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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"Mark" <bongofury@verizon.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Well I thought we were discussing 'Meatgrinder'/'Fishymancer' Necros in
>general.

I'd never heard the term "Fishymancer" until a couple of weeks ago in the
dii.net single player forum. Where did the term originally come from?


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.