Good seed, bad seed, good seed

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Oh look, another thread about game seeds. We're not obsessed, really we're
not.

USWest, SC, Ladder, Hell Mode.

Well, we've all heard the expression "good cop, bad cop", well here's the
diablo version. It's seemed kind of half a good seed (good on the
green/unique ratio, bad on the item types). Just when you get yourself
lulled into a false sense of security, in comes bad cop, I mean bad seed, to
rough you up. And then back comes good seed seeming all reasonable like.
The half and half pizza of the game world. The diet pepsi of diablo seeds...

Eldritch dropped a set full plate mail, and a yellow russet armour.
Pindleskin dropped... a set full plate mail, and a yellow russet armour.
Wait, is there an echo in here? Andariel dropped... a gold gothic plate and
a set ring mail. The first boss pack in the worldstone keep dropped... a
green breast plate.

After that, the armour drops dry out, and it's raining weapons. And as I'm
wandering along, I get to think how there's not been a single piece of jewelry
dropping. Of course, almost immediately, a Dwarf Star drops. The ONLY ring
to drop in the game.

Continuing on down to Baal itself, and there's not a single elite drop in
sight. And little armour of any kind. Why I'm still here is anybody's
guess. Then I see why, for Baal hits the bricks, and drops... a yellow wire
fleece... and a gold kraken shell.

At that point, it was time to go, but Ashen came in to have a look around the
game as I was leaving. I wonder if he found anything...


--
USWest SCL: 80 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

I think it was Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> that wrote
something like...

>Oh look, another thread about game seeds. We're not obsessed, really we're
>not.
>
>USWest, SC, Ladder, Hell Mode.
>
>Well, we've all heard the expression "good cop, bad cop", well here's the
>diablo version. It's seemed kind of half a good seed (good on the
>green/unique ratio, bad on the item types). Just when you get yourself
>lulled into a false sense of security, in comes bad cop, I mean bad seed, to
>rough you up. And then back comes good seed seeming all reasonable like.
>The half and half pizza of the game world. The diet pepsi of diablo seeds...
>
>Eldritch dropped a set full plate mail, and a yellow russet armour.
>Pindleskin dropped... a set full plate mail, and a yellow russet armour.
>Wait, is there an echo in here? Andariel dropped... a gold gothic plate and
>a set ring mail. The first boss pack in the worldstone keep dropped... a
>green breast plate.
>
>After that, the armour drops dry out, and it's raining weapons. And as I'm
>wandering along, I get to think how there's not been a single piece of jewelry
>dropping. Of course, almost immediately, a Dwarf Star drops. The ONLY ring
>to drop in the game.
>
>Continuing on down to Baal itself, and there's not a single elite drop in
>sight. And little armour of any kind. Why I'm still here is anybody's
>guess. Then I see why, for Baal hits the bricks, and drops... a yellow wire
>fleece... and a gold kraken shell.
>
>At that point, it was time to go, but Ashen came in to have a look around the
>game as I was leaving. I wonder if he found anything...

I don't think I really have the proper patience for serious mf'ing,
and nor do I have much MF, not yet at least. Most of the game was a
wash, with only 2 highlights that I can recall. Hit the summoner and
the countess up for some keys and got nada. As I started on my way to
Nilly though, a charger in Pindles garden dropped a vanilla necro
summons GC. You know, now that I think on it, I can't recall if I
went by the pit. Anyway, I did do the Ancients tunnels. The other
drop of note was some Chance Guards with 38% mf. I forget where they
fell though.

Mostly just saw the bad seed side of things.


Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

I think it was Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> that wrote
something like...

>Oh look, another thread about game seeds. We're not obsessed, really we're
>not.
>

I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.
Having had a bit of a drought of keys, I decided to see how my sorc
went at teleing down to baal. Managed that, and I can't at all recall
what he dropped, or what dropped on the way there (I've been up for
about 36 hours now, not a common thing for me), but somewhere along
the line I got to thinking the game had a good seed. Offing Meph and
getting a Reapers Toll enforced that idea. So I took out Andy, but
while the colours were nice, I don't think they were items I was much
interested in. Anyway, decided to go visit the countess despite
already having 3 keys from her. Well, she dropped another. The
summoner was stingy, but Nilly finally let his guard down and dropped
me a destruction key. Now I just need one more D-Key and it'll be
time to put my pally to work.
But this is the second time in a game that really looked like it had a
good seed, that two of the key keepers dropped keys.

I just wish I had a character that needed it's hellforge and that the
forge had been open in the game. Would almost certain have gotten a
Gul, or at least an Ist I reckon.

Incidentally, that game is still up. agdhell3. Cows are done, Andy,
Meph, Baal, Countess, Nilly, Summoner, Pindleskin, Elderitch and
shink, Pit and the dude in the Inner courtyard are all done. Diablo
is still kicking, but don't really feel like trying to take my sorc
through there. Oh, and 3 or 4 white phase blades dropped in that
game. Was part of what made me think the seed was good. Diablo's
probably got an Azurewrath in his pocket. Or it might be in the
Ancient Tunnels.

I need a destruction key though.

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

 

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"Ashen Shugar" <deathsabyss@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4338568d.61647875@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>I think it was Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> that wrote
> something like...
>
>>Oh look, another thread about game seeds. We're not obsessed, really
>>we're
>>not.
>>
>
> I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.
> Having had a bit of a drought of keys, I decided to see how my sorc
> went at teleing down to baal. Managed that, and I can't at all recall
> what he dropped, or what dropped on the way there (I've been up for
> about 36 hours now, not a common thing for me), but somewhere along
> the line I got to thinking the game had a good seed. Offing Meph and
> getting a Reapers Toll enforced that idea. So I took out Andy, but
> while the colours were nice, I don't think they were items I was much
> interested in. Anyway, decided to go visit the countess despite
> already having 3 keys from her. Well, she dropped another. The
> summoner was stingy, but Nilly finally let his guard down and dropped
> me a destruction key. Now I just need one more D-Key and it'll be
> time to put my pally to work.
> But this is the second time in a game that really looked like it had a
> good seed, that two of the key keepers dropped keys.
>
> I just wish I had a character that needed it's hellforge and that the
> forge had been open in the game. Would almost certain have gotten a
> Gul, or at least an Ist I reckon.
>
> Incidentally, that game is still up. agdhell3. Cows are done, Andy,
> Meph, Baal, Countess, Nilly, Summoner, Pindleskin, Elderitch and
> shink, Pit and the dude in the Inner courtyard are all done. Diablo
> is still kicking, but don't really feel like trying to take my sorc
> through there. Oh, and 3 or 4 white phase blades dropped in that
> game. Was part of what made me think the seed was good. Diablo's
> probably got an Azurewrath in his pocket. Or it might be in the
> Ancient Tunnels.
>
> I need a destruction key though.

I would bet this is correct. Now, what I am about to say is based ONLY on my
observations. Then again, given my incurable case of total recall and given
that I have probably logged hours playing that any 2 other people, and more
hours of MFing that any 5 other people, my observations are not exactly
quesses

I think that the primary effect of drops from good/bad seeds is displayed in
2 cases. One is in the color that comes out of the magic item routine (when
it selects between blue, yellow green and gold) and from the portion of code
that determined the treasure classes. Now what I know for a FACT is that
both these areas of code use the same random (yeah, right) key to feed into
the process. My theory, which I think by now has been well borne out by the
experiences of myself and quite a few others in the group is that certain
keys seems to resovle themselves in such a way that one class or color is
more prevalent than others. those who have ever coded a hashing routine will
understand, for the rest of you I will try to explain HOW this happens in
such a way as to make it clear to those without either a degree in math or
30 years in the IT field.

Let us assume, for the purposes of this explanation, that all random keys
are whole numbers, 2 digits, which will divide evenly into one of 5 numbers
(for this example, let us assume those numbers are 2,3,4,5,6,7). Now, the
way our imaginary item generator works is that it takes the key number
(generated at game startup) and multiplies is by the last 5 digits of the
internal clock and derives an item number. It then divides that item number
divides it by 2 and sees if their is a remainder. If there isn't, it selects
TC2 as our lucky number, if not, it tries the same with 3, then 4, then 5,
then 6, and if none of those make an even division, then TC7 is selected.
The selected TC would now be given a 3 times greater chance of being
selected for the item. This is easy to accomplish, as you have the code
select a random number from a list that contains 2,3,4,5,6,7 and 2 more
iterations of the lucky number. Well, as you can work, if the key is 20, any
setting on the clock (which changes every 1/10000 of a second, btw) will be
even and TC2 would be selected. On the other hand (yes, I know, she wore a
glove) if that key number is 49, the odds are that you will hit TC7 MUCH
more often.

Now, this is a VERY simplified explantion, rife with holes, but it conveys
the general idea. When you have a really hot seed, it resolves itself not
only into more items from better TCs, but more gold items. That's when you
really hit a homer.

Now to get back to your keys, I cannot see the code behind them, but I would
assume they MUST be treated as items with a special treasure class (of their
very own), and which only the known suspect monsters possess. A good key
would make it MUCH more likely that they drop. Given your experience, I
woudl say that the odds of that happening to the same person twice WITHOUT
something de-randomizing the event is about equal to be getting hit on each
testicle with a bolt of lightning while on the way to cash in my TWO winning
lottery tickets. Just think of how rare it is to see one of them drop a key,
then square that. Even more amazing is that someone I know to be a good and
honest player messaged me a few days ago taht he had just found 3 keys in
teh same game. This would be simply beyond the pale were there not outside
factors involved.

HTH you all,

Mickey

 

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After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw>
"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote

>Given your experience, I
>would say that the odds of that happening to the same person twice WITHOUT
>something de-randomizing the event is about equal to be getting hit on each
>testicle with a bolt of lightning while on the way to cash in my TWO winning
>lottery tickets.

That often? Wouldn't it be more like getting hit on each testicle with a bolt
of lightning while on the way to cash in two winning $50,000,000 lottery tickets
on the blue moon in Febuary?
--
no, i didn't forget the 'F's
http://www.geocities.com/jerk_o2002
http://www.geocities.com/nameless_mod
-My Diablo 2 Mod
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php
-My theme song

 

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deathsabyss@yahoo.com.au (Ashen Shugar), in a display of leetness, fell down
the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.

Maybe, maybe not. I cleared the ancients way in that game that you found
your key in (the agdhell3 one0, and got -> two white elite items, no rares, no
sets, no uniques, and in fact I can't recall a blue item even drop, nor a gem
or rune.

***

As discussed, here's the relevant data from the TreasureClassEx.txt file
(sure, this the definition as it stands for single player/open, and they might
have completely different data being used on the servers anyway, but this is
all we have to go on).

I'll list the summoner's data, simply because that's the one I scrolled over
first.

Summoner(H)
5 picks

Treasure clases/items that can be picked from are (frequency is listed after
each option, separated by a hyphen):
No drop - 19
Gold coins - 9
Act 2 (H) Equip C - 15
Act 3 (H) Junk - 5
Act 2 (H) Good - 3
Act 3 (H) Magic A - 4
pk2 - 1

The reference to "pk2" ("pk" being short for "Pandemonium Key" in this
context) is our key drop. As you can see there, there's nothing particularly
"special" about how the game is deciding a key will be dropped, it's simply
another of the possible "things" (either an item, or a reference to another
treasure class - these can be nested, in other words, and a particular drop
might have a "cascade" of treasure class decisions behind it) that the game
can choose from for the Summoner.

Based on this data, it would appear therefore that the "no drop" effects key
drops in the same way it effects any other drops, in other words, player count
can have a bearing on the chance of a drop - higher player count = the nodrop
is dynamically reduced = higher chance that something e.g. key or other item,
WILL drop.

Similar definitions exist fot the Nihlathak and Countess drops of "pk3" and
"pk1" respectively.


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:43l1j11ai9h7fniekr6mm4jhfkjvnjtemd@4ax.com...
> deathsabyss@yahoo.com.au (Ashen Shugar), in a display of leetness, fell
> down
> the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...
>
>>I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. I cleared the ancients way in that game that you
> found
> your key in (the agdhell3 one0, and got -> two white elite items, no
> rares, no
> sets, no uniques, and in fact I can't recall a blue item even drop, nor a
> gem
> or rune.

If you were seeing white items, then you didn't have enough MF. The point is
that you were seeing elites

Mickey

>
> ***
>
> As discussed, here's the relevant data from the TreasureClassEx.txt file
> (sure, this the definition as it stands for single player/open, and they
> might
> have completely different data being used on the servers anyway, but this
> is
> all we have to go on).
>
> I'll list the summoner's data, simply because that's the one I scrolled
> over
> first.
>
> Summoner(H)
> 5 picks
>
> Treasure clases/items that can be picked from are (frequency is listed
> after
> each option, separated by a hyphen):
> No drop - 19
> Gold coins - 9
> Act 2 (H) Equip C - 15
> Act 3 (H) Junk - 5
> Act 2 (H) Good - 3
> Act 3 (H) Magic A - 4
> pk2 - 1
>
> The reference to "pk2" ("pk" being short for "Pandemonium Key" in this
> context) is our key drop. As you can see there, there's nothing
> particularly
> "special" about how the game is deciding a key will be dropped, it's
> simply
> another of the possible "things" (either an item, or a reference to
> another
> treasure class - these can be nested, in other words, and a particular
> drop
> might have a "cascade" of treasure class decisions behind it) that the
> game
> can choose from for the Summoner.
>
> Based on this data, it would appear therefore that the "no drop" effects
> key
> drops in the same way it effects any other drops, in other words, player
> count
> can have a bearing on the chance of a drop - higher player count = the
> nodrop
> is dynamically reduced = higher chance that something e.g. key or other
> item,
> WILL drop.
>
> Similar definitions exist fot the Nihlathak and Countess drops of "pk3"
> and
> "pk1" respectively.
>
>
> --
> USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>>>I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.

>> Maybe, maybe not. I cleared the ancients way in that game that you
>> found
>> your key in (the agdhell3 one0, and got -> two white elite items, no
>> rares, no
>> sets, no uniques, and in fact I can't recall a blue item even drop, nor a
>> gem
>> or rune.
>
>If you were seeing white items, then you didn't have enough MF. The point is
>that you were seeing elites

Point taken. The lil necro does only have around 230-240, after all. I
would have at least expected to find a "magic" item in one map in Ash's good
seed game though.


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

I think it was Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> that wrote
something like...

>"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
>stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...
>
>>>>I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.
>
>>> Maybe, maybe not. I cleared the ancients way in that game that you
>>> found
>>> your key in (the agdhell3 one0, and got -> two white elite items, no
>>> rares, no
>>> sets, no uniques, and in fact I can't recall a blue item even drop, nor a
>>> gem
>>> or rune.
>>
>>If you were seeing white items, then you didn't have enough MF. The point is
>>that you were seeing elites
>
>Point taken. The lil necro does only have around 230-240, after all. I
>would have at least expected to find a "magic" item in one map in Ash's good
>seed game though.

It was a fairly old game though at the time you entered. It had been
sitting there for a while already while I was doing Nilly runs even
before I made my post. Maybe seeds change after a while? Or maybe it
was only really a good boss seed, and not so good for more normal
critters? Or maybe while it was a good base item seed, it was an
average item quality seed, so with bosses having the better drops,
they came out real good at times, but normal monsters couldn't easily
get up into the unique and set item class.

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3b83j1tvsa88s24nt2kfoa869fp4kt81oj@4ax.com...
> "Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
> stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...
>
>>>>I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.
>
>>> Maybe, maybe not. I cleared the ancients way in that game that you
>>> found
>>> your key in (the agdhell3 one0, and got -> two white elite items, no
>>> rares, no
>>> sets, no uniques, and in fact I can't recall a blue item even drop, nor
>>> a
>>> gem
>>> or rune.
>>
>>If you were seeing white items, then you didn't have enough MF. The point
>>is
>>that you were seeing elites
>
> Point taken. The lil necro does only have around 230-240, after all. I
> would have at least expected to find a "magic" item in one map in Ash's
> good
> seed game though.

Somewhere at home I have the numbers, but I think around 520 or so MF, you
get no more while items. So why t o people shoot for more? See how MF
affects boss drops for further info.

Mickey

 

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"Ashen Shugar" <deathsabyss@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4332d755.47821828@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>I think it was Stephen van Ham <svanham@xtra.co.nz> that wrote
> something like...
>
>>"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
>>stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...
>>
>>>>>I'm pretty sure a good seed also effects Uber key drops.
>>
>>>> Maybe, maybe not. I cleared the ancients way in that game that
>>>> you
>>>> found
>>>> your key in (the agdhell3 one0, and got -> two white elite items, no
>>>> rares, no
>>>> sets, no uniques, and in fact I can't recall a blue item even drop, nor
>>>> a
>>>> gem
>>>> or rune.
>>>
>>>If you were seeing white items, then you didn't have enough MF. The point
>>>is
>>>that you were seeing elites
>>
>>Point taken. The lil necro does only have around 230-240, after all. I
>>would have at least expected to find a "magic" item in one map in Ash's
>>good
>>seed game though.
>
> It was a fairly old game though at the time you entered. It had been
> sitting there for a while already while I was doing Nilly runs even
> before I made my post. Maybe seeds change after a while? Or maybe it
> was only really a good boss seed, and not so good for more normal
> critters? Or maybe while it was a good base item seed, it was an
> average item quality seed, so with bosses having the better drops,
> they came out real good at times, but normal monsters couldn't easily
> get up into the unique and set item class.

Seeds do not change, they are assigned at startup of the game and stored for
all future use. Now I have seen reference from Peter that this has been
changed to make a new seed for each act, but results say this was a plan
that was never followed through on.

Mickey

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Somewhere at home I have the numbers, but I think around 520 or so MF, you
>get no more while items.

I kinda miss my main season one MF chick. :-(



--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.