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Jabber, SVH etc: Kasmir Needs BF Sasin Build Info Plz

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Anonymous
September 20, 2005 9:47:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

My recent trip to uber-tristram has refueled Kasmir to come back to SC
play. He really only has experience playinfgAssassins and from what I
seen in uber-tris the only Sasin that is going to contribute anything
is a BF Sasin with some extra added specialties, something the
Armaggedon-like Goddess HolyStarsBatman with all of the Blowing Crush
gear.

He played last night to level 9 and has held off on skill and stat
points. Jabber you might have posted your build and skills and stats
but if so can you paste them here or post what he needs to distribute
now and in the future.

SVH if you can help, greatly appreciated, as well as others.

Thanks

Orion
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:14:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Orion Ryder held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
1127220460.642785.214990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to this Interweb
chatroom:

> My recent trip to uber-tristram has refueled Kasmir to come back to SC
> play. He really only has experience playinfgAssassins and from what I
> seen in uber-tris the only Sasin that is going to contribute anything
> is a BF Sasin with some extra added specialties, something the
> Armaggedon-like Goddess HolyStarsBatman with all of the Blowing Crush
> gear.
>
> He played last night to level 9 and has held off on skill and stat
> points. Jabber you might have posted your build and skills and stats
> but if so can you paste them here or post what he needs to distribute
> now and in the future.
>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.diablo/browse_...

That thread outlines the endgame gear I'm using. Skills:
1 pt Blade Fury
20 Venom
Enough Fade to Max resists
20 Shadow Master
1 or so in Mind Blast
Rest in Death Sentry and synergies
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 8:35:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Chris Lansdell wrote:
> Orion Ryder held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
> 1127220460.642785.214990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to this Interweb
> chatroom:
>
> > My recent trip to uber-tristram has refueled Kasmir to come back to SC
> > play. He really only has experience playinfgAssassins and from what I
> > seen in uber-tris the only Sasin that is going to contribute anything
> > is a BF Sasin with some extra added specialties, something the
> > Armaggedon-like Goddess HolyStarsBatman with all of the Blowing Crush
> > gear.
> >
> > He played last night to level 9 and has held off on skill and stat
> > points. Jabber you might have posted your build and skills and stats
> > but if so can you paste them here or post what he needs to distribute
> > now and in the future.
> >
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.diablo/browse_...
>
> That thread outlines the endgame gear I'm using. Skills:
> 1 pt Blade Fury
> 20 Venom
> Enough Fade to Max resists
> 20 Shadow Master
> 1 or so in Mind Blast
> Rest in Death Sentry and synergies

Jabber, did you max block with this girl? I would think not with the
Tiamat's. I know a lot of people don't like blocking on ranged
characters anyway I guess.

Why the LoH? Did the 350% damage really help that much?

Did you have any mana issues?

And would the elemental damage really do much with the 3/4 "penalty"
for BF? I assume that most of the damage comes from your CB setup and
that the rest of the damage is gravy until CB becomes less effective.
Last ladder I was thinking of making a BFsin with Nords and Duress
adding Cold damage.

Got a bit carried away with the questions there.

chaliban
Related resources
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 10:10:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote in
news:%GVXe.93601$Ph4.2958174@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:
>
> That thread outlines the endgame gear I'm using. Skills:
> 1 pt Blade Fury
> 20 Venom
> Enough Fade to Max resists
> 20 Shadow Master
> 1 or so in Mind Blast
> Rest in Death Sentry and synergies
>
>
>

I thought BF didn't transmit venom?

--
While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making
the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short
of deliberate.--V.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 10:10:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Mark P. Nelson" <mpn@alleleb.biol.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns96D76F04412DFmpndisorg@207.115.17.102...
> I thought BF didn't transmit venom?

It most certainly does transmit Venom(at like 3/4 effectiveness I believe),
that's one of the main points of the build. It also transmits Deadly Strike,
Crushing Blow, Open Wounds, C2C on striking, and other elemental damage(also
at something like 3/4).

> --
> While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making
> the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short
> of deliberate.--V.
>
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 11:51:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Shiflet wrote:
> "chaliban" <chaliban@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1127259345.130770.231630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > And would the elemental damage really do much with the 3/4 "penalty"
>
> Wait, are you thinking reduced BY 3/4? If so, it's not, it's reduced TO 3/4.
> So for example 1000 elemental damage becomes 750 elemental damage...still
> not exactly useless. I'd still use Stormshield over Tiamats though, if I was
> going Claw/Shield.

hehe, I actually meant 3/4 OF the damage but it's the same thing.
Tiamats would get you a maximum of about 270 elemental damage. That
comes to about 200 damage. One thing about it is that it makes it able
to trigger open wounds if the monster is immune to physical, poison,
and 2 of the 3 out of F, C, L. That may be pushing it though. :) 

Shiflet, have you gone C/C on a Furysin? Read that they were viable,
usually with Jade Talon on offhand and using a Shadowkiller. Get some
Weapon block. Can't see how they could do enough damage but heck,
that's just me.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 1:03:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"chaliban" <chaliban@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127259345.130770.231630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> And would the elemental damage really do much with the 3/4 "penalty"

Wait, are you thinking reduced BY 3/4? If so, it's not, it's reduced TO 3/4.
So for example 1000 elemental damage becomes 750 elemental damage...still
not exactly useless. I'd still use Stormshield over Tiamats though, if I was
going Claw/Shield.

> chaliban
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 2:20:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Stephen van Ham wrote:
> Hmmm, does "Strength" work with claws? I can't remember.

Yes, Strength works. Finding a 2 socket claw can be a little hassle
though, of the exceptional and elite kinds, only Battle Cestus, Hand
Schyte, and War Fist get 2 sockets from the Larzuk quest. Most of the
normal kinds get 2 sockets, but they are harder to find in the later
difficulty.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 6:50:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"chaliban" <chaliban@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127271093.427807.47520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> hehe, I actually meant 3/4 OF the damage but it's the same thing.
> Tiamats would get you a maximum of about 270 elemental damage. That
> comes to about 200 damage.

Yeah, but then, 270 is paltry to me even withOUT the penalty, that's why I'd
use Stormshield on a weapon/shield Furysin.

> Shiflet, have you gone C/C on a Furysin? Read that they were viable,
> usually with Jade Talon on offhand and using a Shadowkiller.

Yeah. I use Talon as my offhand claw, but for primary I would use an eth
Chaos or Fury runeworded claw over Shadowkiller. Shadowkiller has a max of
220 ED, and aside from that, all it really has going for it is the freezes
target. Fury has 209 ED(so a perf Shadowkiller only has 11 more ED), plus
leech, nice deadly strike, really nice open wounds, ITD, AR boost(for those
uniques that ITD doesn't work on) and PMH. Chaos has a much higher potential
damage(a minimum Chaos has 70 more ED than perf Shadowkiller, a max will
have 120 higher ED), some open wounds and high magic damage, so if one can
afford it, those would be my choices rather than a Shadowkiller(I don't have
an eth Chaos, I do have an eth Fury).

> Get some Weapon block.

Oh definitely.

> Can't see how they could do enough damage but heck, that's just me.

Well, they do get a boost from claw mastery. Won't be as fast as a Stormlash
wielding W/S sin, but with a high damage eth claw and claw mastery(plus the
obvious CB, OW, venom, etc) it does fine.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:53:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Now I can't remember, due to my never having played an Assassin which
is the Warrior and which is the Master. I did play my wife's assassin
for about 3 minutes once but quickly realized that she had no war cries
so she was utterly useless with my playing mentality at that time.

I getr the idea that the lower one is chosen for specif builds meanign
that one only wants the lower one to utilize skills that the actual
assassin is using and nothing more.

Do I have this right?

So Jabber chose the lower one so there would be a clone of himself
there (tihout the CB) and perhaps start popping off DS and have max
fade and Vrnom and Mind Blast with an occasional perreq being cast by
the AI clone? Correct?

This might be the way for Kasmir to go.

Comments Jabber? If this was your madness then it sounds not so mad.

BTW Kasmit is really psyched up about this. I think this is a character
that he could actually have fun with in Hell in a nice group and really
get to enjoy the game moreso. His HC playing has given him the
understanding of survival and he finds himself applying this back in
softcore now.

Orion

Orion
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 7:44:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Shiflet wrote:
> "Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:08p1j1d11b8ienmgd1lmphc6dechdo2n9h@4ax.com...
>
> > Open Wounds > Poison Damage (Venon) > Prevent Monster Heal? Guys?
> What's
> > the word on this?
>
> OW and Poison both prevent healing, so take your pick.

Actually, I think that if you are using Venom against the Ubers it
might be best to get Open Wounds and/or PMH. Venom has a very short
duration so if you hit and then miss with the next blade (or it gets
blocked) or you have to run away/get distracted by minions (which I
have heard can happen when in UTristram) then the Uber will start
regenerating pretty quickly. IIRC, the Venom skill takes _all_ your
poison damage and puts it into that little 0.4(?) secs.

chaliban
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 8:02:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"chaliban" <chaliban@hotmail.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>hehe, I actually meant 3/4 OF the damage but it's the same thing.
>Tiamats would get you a maximum of about 270 elemental damage. That
>comes to about 200 damage. One thing about it is that it makes it able
>to trigger open wounds if the monster is immune to physical, poison,
>and 2 of the 3 out of F, C, L. That may be pushing it though. :) 
>
>Shiflet, have you gone C/C on a Furysin? Read that they were viable,
>usually with Jade Talon on offhand and using a Shadowkiller. Get some
>Weapon block. Can't see how they could do enough damage but heck,
>that's just me.

I've only gone C/S on a Furysin thus far, and she didn't use a tiamat's, and
still found she did plenty of damage. She did use Venom. But certainly,
one "flaw" with going claw/claw is the lack of claws with crushing blow.
Hmmm, does "Strength" work with claws? I can't remember.


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 8:02:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:o mm1j1l5bbh5relkkir1vb3a1pp5pl28is@4ax.com...
> one "flaw" with going claw/claw is the lack of claws with crushing blow.

Yeah, but Goreriders+Duress still means a CB triggers in roughly 1 out of 3
hits.

> --
> USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 8:56:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Orion Ryder" <orionryder@hotmail.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down
the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>My recent trip to uber-tristram has refueled Kasmir to come back to SC
>play. He really only has experience playinfgAssassins and from what I
>seen in uber-tris the only Sasin that is going to contribute anything
>is a BF Sasin with some extra added specialties, something the
>Armaggedon-like Goddess HolyStarsBatman with all of the Blowing Crush
>gear.
>
>He played last night to level 9 and has held off on skill and stat
>points. Jabber you might have posted your build and skills and stats
>but if so can you paste them here or post what he needs to distribute
>now and in the future.

Warning brain dump follows. May not entirely make sense. Reader beware.

First up:

Blade Fury won't "consume" durablity, which means big damage ethereal weapons
= GOOOD for blade fury (they'll never break).

Stats tend to be pretty generic -

STR - to use the biggest piece gear (if he needs specific numbers, we'd need
to look up a few "sample gear" options for him. But generally, if in doubt,
I go for 110 hard strength points minimum for pure melee, which allows me to
use most common items, including Thundergod's Vigor belt (which he may never
ever find, but that's another issue), things like IK set, bartuc claws, most
elite claws, etc. 156 strength to use one very nice shield by the name of
Stormshield (which, again, he may never EVER find).

However, if he's going purely ranged, you can do with less stength than 110.
Tiamat's Rebuke, which Jabber uses on his, requires quite a bit less strength
than 110. Most light elite armours (and archon plate, etc) require 110, and
can be used for the "Duress" runeword, big resistance runeword armours like
"Smoke" and "Gloom", Goldskin, etc. There's quite a bit that can be said on
this. Lots of variation.

Note - Gore Riders - 95 strength required. Anyone got the strength
requirement for Goblin Toes handy? Less than 95, obviously, but it's a nice
and cheap item to have around.

DEX - enough to equip gear (if claw/claw) or enough for max blocked if
weapon/shield and he wants maxed block (Jabber didn't, I did, both approaches
work, bear in mind that mind used kicks as well e.g. melee whereas his was a
ranged girl only i.e. pure furysin) We can write a lot more on this.

ENERGY - no points. NO POINTS. NOOOOOOOOO POOOOOOIIIIINNNNNTTTTTSSSSS.

VITALITY - whatever he can spare (assassin = 3 life points per point of
vitaliy = GOOOOD)

What else? Oh, crafted blood gloves are a great item to have around, if one
doesn't have Dracul's Grasp (Dracul's = Life Tap = GOOOOOD) Jabber and others
can give you good detail on that aspect, as I've never seen the ubers myself.

***

Skillz:

Blade Fury itself is generally a "one point wonder". More points in the
skill does add some damage, but because of the way this "skill damage" is
applied, it's not boosted by damage auras, etc, so the effect can be somewhat
minimua.

Blade Fury uses the same chance to hit as the assassins normal/default attack
skill. In other words, it has no innate attack rating bonus, which can equate
to a low attack rating. Some way of enhancing this attack rating is
preferable (the assassin's character level compared to the opposition's level
impacts chance to hit greatly, but SOME attack rating in order to hit
accurately.

Options here -

* ETH runes in weapons (not sure this will work on the ubers though?)

* Weapons that have -% target defense or "ignores target defense" on them
(there are even magic weapons that can be shopped that can have this
attribute)
* Gear with lots of +Attack rating on it, e.g. ravenfrost ring, nice charms,
part angelic set (amulet + ring), part hsarus set. Beware that using the
angelic or hsarus set options will tie up "equipment slots" in the end game
that he will probably want to use for "other mods".
* Blessed Aim mercenary (offensive mercenary in act 2 normal/hell difficulty,
IRRC (but I guess mercs mostly die against ubers anyway, unless they have
great gear+high level+throw them lots of purple potions?
* Ummm, what else? I can't remember right now. Brain = fried.

Claw Mastery is an option, however, of course it only benefits the blade fury
girl when she uses claws instead of some other weapon, AND... many GREAT/UBER
weapons for a blade fury girl are, in fact, NOT claws. There is quite a bit
that could be written on the topic of claw versus non-claw for a BF girl.

Jabber had maxed Fade on his (just generally, we both built our girls BEFORE
uber tristram was around), being more of a "pure" blade fury girl, whereas
mine had points in Dragon Talon (Tail? I ALWAYS get the names of those two
kick skills mixed up - it's the first on on the tree that I have) whereas he
had points in Fade (mind used a Stormshield, whereas his used a Tiamats).

I also experimented with using Shadow WARRIOR on mine, instead of Shadow
MASTER, but this was simply a stylistic choice on my part. There's a lot
that could be written on WARRIOR vs MASTER, too. Default choice, however,
usually = Shadow MASTER.

I think Jabber and I both maxed Venom, as this adds in the vacinity of 1000
poison damage per second at level 20, give or take. However, given that a
blade fury girl gets a lot of her damage potential from crushing blow gear,
I'm not completely convinced that Venom is really necessary for a fury girl
(will it even stop monster life regeneration in uber tristram anyway?) It
also depends on how "pure" one wants to make a build - a fury girl without
high level traps or kicks will quite simply have points to burn. :-)

Open Wounds > Poison Damage (Venon) > Prevent Monster Heal? Guys? What's
the word on this?

A basic build:

Blade Fury 1 hard point

Shadow Master 1-20, this can vary GREATLY. People with great gear can put
one (or NO) points here and still raise a level 20+ Shadow. But for less
rich players... If in doubt, take her to about 8-10 hard points, and see how
see goes. Tell Kasmir to be on the lookout for claws that have the "+
shadow kills" property of them, as these can be put on "weapon switch" and
used to "precast" a stronger Shadow. Basically, this means her strength is
determined by the level of your Shadow skill at the time of casting.

Other skills:

Venom 20 hard points

Burst of Speed 1 hard point as a pre-req for Fade/Venom, maybe more if he
decids to be a kicker also, and needs a couple extra points to reach a speed
breakpoint (again, there's TONS that could be written on this)

Fade 20 hard points - a great combo of resistance boost and damage reduction,
which sounds ideal for uber tristram (I STILL haven't been there, so I can
only speculate) I never felt like a needed much in Fade for general play,
but for uber tristram, it sounds a lot more useful. If I was making a girl
specifically for uber tristram, I'd strongly look into maxing Fade as an
option.

Weapon Block - 1 point as a pre-req for other skills (if weapon/shield), or
for Claw/Claw, 5+ points here, something close to 50% block. While one point
plus skill adders will get you a good chance to block, an assassin visiting
the ubers might well want to focus gear more towards life/stacked
resistances/crushing blow and so on, than +skills.

Guys, again, does Weapon Block more stuff in Uber Tristram than shield block?

Mind Blast 1 hard point, generally, it's a great, I mean, SUUUPPPEEERRR "crowd
control" skill in general play. Guys, again, does it work in Uber Tristram?
Some also like Cloak of Shadows. I don't.

Other options:

Fury/Kick Assassin - Dragon Talon (whatever the firstt kick in the MA tree is
called) - anywhere from 10-20 hard points (skill level 18 = 4 kicks, 24 = 5
kicks per skill use? I can't recall exactly. It's something like that,
anyway. :-)

Fury/Trap Assassin - points in Death Sentry (and optionally, Lightning Sentry)
to taste. This, however, is a more "hybrid" build suited for PVM general
play, rather than the ubers.. again, I guess? I've never been there, but
there's tons of lightning immunes down there anyway, right?

I'd suggest at least one hard point in Death Sentry regardless of the build,
however. It's good in all sorts of situations while he's questing and
leveling up. :-)

That'll do for now. I probably missed a ton of stuff.

More can be written on this Kasmir doesn't understand some of it (LOTS on
weapon options in particular), and there are some good guides to blade fury
and/or fury/kick assassins around. The thing is, there's so many ways one
could go with the build.

Oh, "Black" runeword = cheap source of massive crushing blow.


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 8:56:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Stephen van Ham" <svanham@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:08p1j1d11b8ienmgd1lmphc6dechdo2n9h@4ax.com...


> Warning brain dump follows. May not entirely make sense. Reader beware.
>
> First up:
>
> Blade Fury won't "consume" durablity, which means big damage ethereal
weapons
> = GOOOD for blade fury (they'll never break).

Aye, eth weapons are a big boost, both for C/C AND W/S furysins.

> STR - to use the biggest piece gear

Yep. For me, if making a W/S girl, it would be enough for Stormshield, if
not, it would be enough for a Duress archon.

> DEX - enough to equip gear (if claw/claw) or enough for max blocked if
> weapon/shield and he wants maxed block (Jabber didn't, I did, both
approaches
> work, bear in mind that mind used kicks as well e.g. melee whereas his was
a
> ranged girl only i.e. pure furysin) We can write a lot more on this.

Agreed. For a W/S sin I'd max block.

> ENERGY - no points. NO POINTS. NOOOOOOOOO POOOOOOIIIIINNNNNTTTTTSSSSS.

Agreed.

> VITALITY - whatever he can spare (assassin = 3 life points per point of
> vitaliy = GOOOOD)

Agreed.

> What else? Oh, crafted blood gloves are a great item to have around, if
one
> doesn't have Dracul's Grasp (Dracul's = Life Tap = GOOOOOD) Jabber and
others
> can give you good detail on that aspect, as I've never seen the ubers
myself.

Definitely. Mine uses Drac's, very nice.

> Blade Fury itself is generally a "one point wonder". More points in the
> skill does add some damage, but because of the way this "skill damage" is
> applied, it's not boosted by damage auras, etc, so the effect can be
somewhat
> minimua.

Yeah, only 1 point needed.

> Blade Fury uses the same chance to hit as the assassins normal/default
attack
> skill. In other words, it has no innate attack rating bonus, which can
equate
> to a low attack rating. Some way of enhancing this attack rating is
> preferable (the assassin's character level compared to the opposition's
level
> impacts chance to hit greatly, but SOME attack rating in order to hit
> accurately.

Yeah, so having ITD, AR boost, etc on your gear is helpful. Keeping a Demon
Limb in stash to give some Enchant usages isn't a bad idea either.

> Claw Mastery is an option, however, of course it only benefits the blade
fury
> girl when she uses claws instead of some other weapon, AND... many
GREAT/UBER
> weapons for a blade fury girl are, in fact, NOT claws. There is quite a
bit
> that could be written on the topic of claw versus non-claw for a BF girl.

If you use Claws, max this. Otherwise, ignore it. And honestly, the ONLY
reason to use 2 claws is cause you either a)totally lack any decent 1 handed
weapon to use on her, or b)you want to being able to block gloam lightning,
bone spirits, glacial spikes, and that sort of thing.

> I also experimented with using Shadow WARRIOR on mine, instead of Shadow
> MASTER, but this was simply a stylistic choice on my part. There's a lot
> that could be written on WARRIOR vs MASTER, too. Default choice, however,
> usually = Shadow MASTER.

Aye, I maxed Master.

> I think Jabber and I both maxed Venom,

Me too

> Open Wounds > Poison Damage (Venon) > Prevent Monster Heal? Guys?
What's
> the word on this?

OW and Poison both prevent healing, so take your pick.

My C/C build(which is pre-Ubers):
1 Blade Fury
20 Claw Mastery
20 Venom
20 Shadow Master
20 death sentry(for radius boosting)
1 in Fade/BoS/CoS(using dual +3 shadow skills claws on switch gets these to
lvl 7 with just 1 hard point and NO other +skills gear)
1 Mind Blast
around 10 in Weapon Block

> Fury/Kick Assassin - Dragon Talon (whatever the firstt kick in the MA tree
is
> called) - anywhere from 10-20 hard points (skill level 18 = 4 kicks, 24 =
5
> kicks per skill use? I can't recall exactly. It's something like that,
> anyway. :-)

I played with one of these in single player...sort of. Actually, I just
played a kicker with 1 point in Blade Fury, but since the 2 builds share so
much in common(max venom, high CB/OW/etc) it plays the same when in BF mode.

My W/S kicker/furysin went like this:
20 Dragon Talon
20 Venom
20 Death Sentry
20 Shadow Master
1 Mind Blast
1 Blade Fury
1 Dragon Flight
1 CoS
rest in Fade and BoS(I put enough in BoS to hit the breakpoint I was after,
rest in Fade)

> I'd suggest at least one hard point in Death Sentry regardless of the
build,
> however. It's good in all sorts of situations while he's questing and
> leveling up. :-)

Agreed.

> --
> USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:00:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Actually I have learned since starting this thread that the Warrior can
not BF. So in this case the Master appears to be the more versatile
choice.

Thanks a lot Jabber. He is getting excited. And I know he appreciates
the help you guys are giving here.

Orion
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:01:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Oh and that neither can the Master use BF.

Orion
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:52:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Mark P. Nelson held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
Xns96D76F04412DFmpndisorg@207.115.17.102 to this Interweb chatroom:

> "Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:%GVXe.93601$Ph4.2958174@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:
>>
>> That thread outlines the endgame gear I'm using. Skills:
>> 1 pt Blade Fury
>> 20 Venom
>> Enough Fade to Max resists
>> 20 Shadow Master
>> 1 or so in Mind Blast
>> Rest in Death Sentry and synergies
>>
>>
>>
>
> I thought BF didn't transmit venom?

Oh it does. At some point I should socket that Fleshripper and put a poison
facet in it...
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:52:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Shiflet held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
P4%Xe.595$L45.471@fe07.lga to this Interweb chatroom:

> "Mark P. Nelson" <mpn@alleleb.biol.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D76F04412DFmpndisorg@207.115.17.102...
>> I thought BF didn't transmit venom?
>
> It most certainly does transmit Venom(at like 3/4 effectiveness I
> believe), that's one of the main points of the build. It also
> transmits Deadly Strike, Crushing Blow, Open Wounds, C2C on striking,
> and other elemental damage(also at something like 3/4).
>
I think, with my endgame gear, I had around a 70-80% chance of triggering
ALL those mods. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaasty.
>> --
>> While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making
>> the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing
>> short of deliberate.--V.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:56:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

chaliban held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
1127259345.130770.231630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to this Interweb
chatroom:

> Chris Lansdell wrote:
>> Orion Ryder held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while
>> posting 1127220460.642785.214990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to
>> this Interweb chatroom:
>>
>>> My recent trip to uber-tristram has refueled Kasmir to come back to
>>> SC play. He really only has experience playinfgAssassins and from
>>> what I seen in uber-tris the only Sasin that is going to contribute
>>> anything is a BF Sasin with some extra added specialties, something
>>> the Armaggedon-like Goddess HolyStarsBatman with all of the Blowing
>>> Crush gear.
>>>
>>> He played last night to level 9 and has held off on skill and stat
>>> points. Jabber you might have posted your build and skills and stats
>>> but if so can you paste them here or post what he needs to
>>> distribute now and in the future.
>>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.diablo/browse_...
>>
>> That thread outlines the endgame gear I'm using. Skills:
>> 1 pt Blade Fury
>> 20 Venom
>> Enough Fade to Max resists
>> 20 Shadow Master
>> 1 or so in Mind Blast
>> Rest in Death Sentry and synergies
>
> Jabber, did you max block with this girl? I would think not with the
> Tiamat's. I know a lot of people don't like blocking on ranged
> characters anyway I guess.
>
Nope. I wanted more life, since I die a lot to gloams and pretty much only
gloams, and blocking would do squat there.

> Why the LoH? Did the 350% damage really help that much?
>
Against the clone, end bosses, and about 1/3 of the critters in the game?
You could say that. Drac's would have been my main choice had I owned any
before the last week of the season. Whatever gloves give Enchant on striking
would work too.

> Did you have any mana issues?
>
Not one. Leech is your friend.

> And would the elemental damage really do much with the 3/4 "penalty"
> for BF? I assume that most of the damage comes from your CB setup and
> that the rest of the damage is gravy until CB becomes less effective.
> Last ladder I was thinking of making a BFsin with Nords and Duress
> adding Cold damage.
>
True and true. The elemental damage is reduced, but 3/4 of 1000+ is still a
hefty chunk with OW, CB, DS and so on going off with monotonous
regularity...

> Got a bit carried away with the questions there.
>
Isn't that what the group is for?
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:56:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:JNjYe.94684$Ph4.2978160@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> chaliban held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
> 1127259345.130770.231630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to this Interweb
> chatroom:
>
>> Chris Lansdell wrote:
>>> Orion Ryder held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while
>>> posting 1127220460.642785.214990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to
>>> this Interweb chatroom:
>>>
>>>> My recent trip to uber-tristram has refueled Kasmir to come back to
>>>> SC play. He really only has experience playinfgAssassins and from
>>>> what I seen in uber-tris the only Sasin that is going to contribute
>>>> anything is a BF Sasin with some extra added specialties, something
>>>> the Armaggedon-like Goddess HolyStarsBatman with all of the Blowing
>>>> Crush gear.
>>>>
>>>> He played last night to level 9 and has held off on skill and stat
>>>> points. Jabber you might have posted your build and skills and stats
>>>> but if so can you paste them here or post what he needs to
>>>> distribute now and in the future.
>>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.diablo/browse_...
>>>
>>> That thread outlines the endgame gear I'm using. Skills:
>>> 1 pt Blade Fury
>>> 20 Venom
>>> Enough Fade to Max resists
>>> 20 Shadow Master
>>> 1 or so in Mind Blast
>>> Rest in Death Sentry and synergies
>>
>> Jabber, did you max block with this girl? I would think not with the
>> Tiamat's. I know a lot of people don't like blocking on ranged
>> characters anyway I guess.
>>
> Nope. I wanted more life, since I die a lot to gloams and pretty much only
> gloams, and blocking would do squat there.

TVG is your friend :) 

>
>> Why the LoH? Did the 350% damage really help that much?
>>
> Against the clone, end bosses, and about 1/3 of the critters in the game?
> You could say that. Drac's would have been my main choice had I owned any
> before the last week of the season. Whatever gloves give Enchant on
> striking would work too.
>
>> Did you have any mana issues?
>>
> Not one. Leech is your friend.
>
>> And would the elemental damage really do much with the 3/4 "penalty"
>> for BF? I assume that most of the damage comes from your CB setup and
>> that the rest of the damage is gravy until CB becomes less effective.
>> Last ladder I was thinking of making a BFsin with Nords and Duress
>> adding Cold damage.
>>
> True and true. The elemental damage is reduced, but 3/4 of 1000+ is still
> a hefty chunk with OW, CB, DS and so on going off with monotonous
> regularity...
>
>> Got a bit carried away with the questions there.
>>
> Isn't that what the group is for?

Last I checked, yes :) 

Mickey
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:57:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Shiflet held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
Wb3Ye.264$eH2.85@fe02.lga to this Interweb chatroom:

> "chaliban" <chaliban@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1127259345.130770.231630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> And would the elemental damage really do much with the 3/4 "penalty"
>
> Wait, are you thinking reduced BY 3/4? If so, it's not, it's reduced
> TO 3/4. So for example 1000 elemental damage becomes 750 elemental
> damage...still not exactly useless. I'd still use Stormshield over
> Tiamats though, if I was going Claw/Shield.
>
I went weapon/shield, and didn't think the %dr and better defense would help
that much. With the PDia in the Tiamat's I had good resists anyway. Too bad
the 'ripper wasn't eth...
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:59:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

chaliban held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
1127271093.427807.47520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to this Interweb
chatroom:

> Shiflet wrote:
>> "chaliban" <chaliban@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1127259345.130770.231630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> And would the elemental damage really do much with the 3/4 "penalty"
>>
>> Wait, are you thinking reduced BY 3/4? If so, it's not, it's reduced
>> TO 3/4. So for example 1000 elemental damage becomes 750 elemental
>> damage...still not exactly useless. I'd still use Stormshield over
>> Tiamats though, if I was going Claw/Shield.
>
> hehe, I actually meant 3/4 OF the damage but it's the same thing.
> Tiamats would get you a maximum of about 270 elemental damage. That
> comes to about 200 damage. One thing about it is that it makes it able
> to trigger open wounds if the monster is immune to physical, poison,
> and 2 of the 3 out of F, C, L. That may be pushing it though. :) 
>
No, it's actually a VERY valid reason to run ele damage. 200 from Tiamat's,
plus another 300 or so from Venom, plus charms and mods on gear. Plus waepon
damage.

> Shiflet, have you gone C/C on a Furysin? Read that they were viable,
> usually with Jade Talon on offhand and using a Shadowkiller. Get some
> Weapon block. Can't see how they could do enough damage but heck,
> that's just me.

The thing about furysins is not phys dmg, it's the mods. Going Claw/Claw
allows Weapon Block AND Clasw Mastery to introduce Crit Strike as well as
Deadly Strike. About 600 damage per star is one thing, but when 10-20 of
those are hitting in short succession...

The only thing I regret not having on my furysin was Knockback, possibly ITD
although that mattered less.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 2:10:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Orion Ryder held her like they did by the lake on Naboo, while posting
1127318029.418578.283540@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com to this Interweb
chatroom:

> Now I can't remember, due to my never having played an Assassin which
> is the Warrior and which is the Master. I did play my wife's assassin
> for about 3 minutes once but quickly realized that she had no war
> cries so she was utterly useless with my playing mentality at that
> time.
>
Oh dear. Oh very dear.

> I getr the idea that the lower one is chosen for specif builds meanign
> that one only wants the lower one to utilize skills that the actual
> assassin is using and nothing more.
>
True.

> Do I have this right?
>
Yes...to an extent. I think there are some skills that Warrior cannot use.

> So Jabber chose the lower one so there would be a clone of himself
> there (tihout the CB) and perhaps start popping off DS and have max
> fade and Vrnom and Mind Blast with an occasional perreq being cast by
> the AI clone? Correct?
>
No, I went with Master.

>
> BTW Kasmit is really psyched up about this. I think this is a
> character that he could actually have fun with in Hell in a nice
> group and really get to enjoy the game moreso. His HC playing has
> given him the understanding of survival and he finds himself applying
> this back in softcore now.
>
Furysins are easy to play and stay alive.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 3:18:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:HOjYe.94685$Ph4.2977880@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> I went weapon/shield, and didn't think the %dr and better defense would
help
> that much. With the PDia in the Tiamat's I had good resists anyway. Too
bad
> the 'ripper wasn't eth...

If I happen to get surrounded, the DR and high block would be beneficial.
Plus it helps with archers and spear slingers. I'd just rather have those
things than 200 or so elemental damage.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 3:22:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4RjYe.94687$Ph4.2978066@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> The thing about furysins is not phys dmg, it's the mods. Going Claw/Claw
> allows Weapon Block AND Clasw Mastery to introduce Crit Strike as well as
> Deadly Strike. About 600 damage per star is one thing, but when 10-20 of
> those are hitting in short succession...

That's the main reason I went C/C is so I can block normally unblockable
attacks.

> The only thing I regret not having on my furysin was Knockback, possibly
ITD
> although that mattered less.

Yeah, mine has no Knockback either unfortunately.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 3:29:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Chris Lansdell" <lansdellicious@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:iQkYe.94739$Ph4.2979397@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> Some good choices:
> Fleshrender (barbed club), FleshRIPPER (Fanged Knife), Stormlash, Black
> runeword, Lawbringer runeword (if you don't want to use DS), Cleg's set
> early on.

Aye, pretty much the weapons I would have recommended. For a claw/claw
build, you're more limited, but eth Bartucs work fine midgame, then you can
get use Shadowkiller or eth Fury/Chaos later on.

> I'm still not the cheerleader for SS that Shiflet and others are. It has
its
> uses, very true, but for some builds there are better choices...

I agree, some builds have better choices, but I do not see one I would
consider a better choice in this regard. I find better blocking and DR more
useful than 200 ele damage from Tiamats, and with Highlords+Gore
Riders+Guillames+Fury claw I had plenty of DS.

> Shieldwise, on of the spiked shield family has some Deadly Strike on it.
> Duress is a big plus for this build, but you did forget Rattlecage as a
> fairly cheap possibility.

Aye, Duress is great, and Rattlecage up to that point is nice as well.

> Gobbos are awesome early on, and in fact my gal used them until about
level
> 80 when the frost zealot agreed to part with his. OK, maybe because he had
> another pair...

Yep, Goblins then Gores.

> I found a Might merc to be essential because of the damage boost. Some
> others have said that BA is better, couldn't comment on that though. I did
> have a Raven on of course. Merc weapons could be almost anything, I THINK
> mine uses Obedience, but Reaper's would be great if you don't have
Dracul's.

I use Might merc over BA as well. I think he has some an Honor or Bonehew or
something, though I'd prefer him to have a Doom.

> I believe 17 is the breakpoint for Shadow Master to get a rare ammy with
> random mods when spawning.

Yep, at 17 the shadows can start getting some "uber" gear.

> Absolutely. Weapon Block stops EVERY form of attack, even stuff liek Bone
> Spirit.

Aye, hence why I went C/C.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 9:55:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

Hehe!

I am learnign somethign here as well. Will Orion ever play a 'sin now
that he is learning.

Only the Shadow (Nik's name for Bloodraven) knows for sure.

Thanks again everybody. Kasmir is continuing to move through SC normal
and appreciates all this help.

Orion
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 10:23:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net>, in a display of leetness, fell down the
stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>> Fury/Kick Assassin - Dragon Talon (whatever the firstt kick in the MA tree
>is
>> called) - anywhere from 10-20 hard points (skill level 18 = 4 kicks, 24 =
>5
>> kicks per skill use? I can't recall exactly. It's something like that,
>> anyway. :-)

>I played with one of these in single player...sort of. Actually, I just
>played a kicker with 1 point in Blade Fury, but since the 2 builds share so
>much in common(max venom, high CB/OW/etc) it plays the same when in BF mode.

>My W/S kicker/furysin went like this:
>20 Dragon Talon
>20 Venom
>20 Death Sentry
>20 Shadow Master
>1 Mind Blast
>1 Blade Fury
>1 Dragon Flight
>1 CoS
>rest in Fade and BoS(I put enough in BoS to hit the breakpoint I was after,
>rest in Fade)

Kung-Fury from season 2 ladder was similar to this, although, as I mentioned,
I pumped up Shadow Warrior instead of Shadow Master, just to have a play
around with. Dragon Talon I believe I left at 18 hard points, as a I had +6
from gear after a while anyway (this was pre-ubers, too, so I didn't have to
worry about resist stacking, and I have a couple of nice +2 rares in the hat
and amulet slots).

I never did manage to get a Stormlash/Astreons/Fleshripper for her, but
fortunately, one of the other members found an eth heavens light, so she got
to use that instead. Before that, she was fortunate enough to have a set of
eth bartucs and various other toys around.

I was thinking about doing more of a kick/trapper this season (not sure I'd
still put a point in BF), probably skipping Venom and using the points in
Lightning Sentry (so 20 DS, so 20 LS). That would be more for general PVM
than the ubers, though.

>> I'd suggest at least one hard point in Death Sentry regardless of the
>build,
>> however. It's good in all sorts of situations while he's questing and
>> leveling up. :-)

>Agreed.

Especially nilly key hunting, clearing maggots out of the river of flame,
stopping revivers in their tracks...


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 10:28:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Orion Ryder" <orionryder@hotmail.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down
the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Now I can't remember, due to my never having played an Assassin which
>is the Warrior and which is the Master. I did play my wife's assassin
>for about 3 minutes once but quickly realized that she had no war cries
>so she was utterly useless with my playing mentality at that time.


>
>I getr the idea that the lower one is chosen for specif builds meanign
>that one only wants the lower one to utilize skills that the actual
>assassin is using and nothing more.
>
>Do I have this right?

The level 18 skill is Shadow Warrior, level 30 skill is Shadow Master.
Shadow Warrior uses whatever skills you have hotkeys, in other words, she's a
mimic. Shadow Master is supposedly a more "robut" helper that pretty much
uses any skill that she pleases.

>BTW Kasmit is really psyched up about this. I think this is a character
>that he could actually have fun with in Hell in a nice group and really
>get to enjoy the game moreso. His HC playing has given him the
>understanding of survival and he finds himself applying this back in
>softcore now.

The great thing about blade fury assassins is their versatility (well, that
and the fact that the skill looks cool). Since blade fury only needs one
point invested in it, you have tons of points available to customise the build
to whatever style you want.


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 6:16:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Orion Ryder" <orionryder@hotmail.com>, in a display of leetness, fell down
the stairs, tripped over an urn, and then threw a cracked sash at Baal...

>Oh and that neither can the Master use BF.

The main reason to use Shadow Warrior is to attempt to "force" her to use
skills such as Mind Blast, traps, etc, leaving the assassin herslf to focus
entirely on throwing blades. As I said, it's a style thing... she (the
Shadow Warrior) can take a few seconds to get around to using your currently
hotkeyed skills, though.


--
USWest SCL: 82 barb, 87 necro, 87 paladin, 87 sorceress.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 10:02:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2,alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On 21 Sep 2005 19:00:37 -0700, "Orion Ryder" <orionryder@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Actually I have learned since starting this thread that the Warrior can
>not BF. So in this case the Master appears to be the more versatile
>choice.

But you actually want the Shadow to tank, so no BF is fine. They're
very unlike to spawn with a useful weapon mod like OW or CB anyway.

-- Roy L
!