A mobo philosophical question. I need help/advice. I have watched as PCI-X boards became closer to atx size workstations in terms of design (e.g. with agp 8x) - just recently, before the latest new intel chipset release, Gigabyte and Supermicro released boards with a tweaked or different intel southbridge called "enhanced Rapids" (although I can never find mention of it on intels site) to give them the full functionality of a typical intel875 chipset workstation BUT with SCSI 320 and/or PCI-x slot/s running at 66 MHZ (I wanted 133MHZ ).
I thought I was dreaming, as I have greatly desired a typical or mainstream ATX sized board that has either onboard SCSI 320 and/or PCI-x at 133 MHZ. Basically I want the fastest IO possible for a system to run with an ATX size and all the extras (firewire, AGP etc..). (There aren't many mobos on the market with Pci-X and something like AGP however Tyan has also been moving in that direction.)
However, I fear that with the new PCI-"express" release/focus from Intel that mainboards will continue to be limited to no more tham SAT Eide drives bandwidth(boring). I am NOT an expert or even a novice at undrstanding how bandwith works on different areas of a board, nor do I know or understand if intels claims that the new PCI-express format has less latency, overhead etc than PCI-x is accurate or not.
I have the money (or credit) to spend (well, atleast I like to pretend), but my question is.... Am I wrong to imagine that the ultimate performance mobo (for anything I want to do including video editing) would be an ATX size typical mainstream "features" mobo WITH the ability to run SCSI 320 (15k rpm) drives on a bus (e.g. pci-x at 133 Mhz) would be a performance nuts dream (i like the idea of seeing a 1-2 second boot up time)?? I didn't think PCI-"express" bandwidth would come close to supporting the bus width needed to fully utilize a scsi 320 drive/s? Or do I simply not understand bandwidth issues well enough - please, looking for a chalkboard explanation of why I may be right, or why I am wrong/just silly, and... to better understand bandwith data rate up and down the entire mobo bus.
Is, for example, the new PCI-express bandwidth so great that all the bus is affected (or just the former AGP bus)? Can it handle SCSI 320 theoretical peak transfer rates (once/if adaptec makes a card for PCI-express)? Am I crazy for thinking I need that anyway and should I just setlle for SAT drives and their corresponding data rates? Anyone can enlighten me or respond to my continual dream machine?? Is it time to put PCI-express with SAT drives versus PCI-x with SCSI drives just to see how great the perf. difference really is (and whether it's worth the cost difference or even mobo design)??
Thanks for your time and help.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DrJohn on 08/04/04 01:53 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
PCI-Express should be able to cope with all your bandwidth needs.
Personally, I don't think you really need SCSI. A couple of WD Raptors (10K) in a RAID 0 RAID array would be a great deal cheaper, and I doubt you'd notice much difference. I don't think the extra cost is justified these days.
There's nowhere near enough demand for SCSI for mainstream boards to come with it on-board - 99% of the customers simply don't need it, so that's never going to happen.
Stick some paragraphs in! it's almost painful to look at such a huge block of unbroken text.
Thanks, and sorry, I don't (obviously) post often.
Any one with any Hard data numbers? How much of data can PCI-express handle in its current format? And, my thougts are more about "excess" rather then strictly "need." I am looking for a design that could give me the fastest of all possibilities (e.g. bootup, video rendering time using Premiere) rather than just meet my needs to some lesser degree - My thought on video rendering is that SAT eide could do little to compare to times I could get with SCSI 320 (???) (with both in RAID configs or not) - so I am wanting a design that Supermicro, Giga, and Tyan were apparently moving to.
And, do you think, "never" is safe to say in technology future thinking _
LOL, how much data? Depends on the slot! X1 is like 250MB/s, X4 is 4x that, x8 is 8x x1, and x16...you get the picture. Workstation boards will likely have x4 slots.
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Check this out - while this post has been up, Tyan released a Xeon based "workstation" using PCI-express (for the graphics/gigabit ethernet), and the 4x PCI-express lane interconnected to a PCI-x Bus to allow for SCSI harddrives. "That's what I'm talking about." Whew - I know it's not mainstream (now), but I find this to be a very interesting marriage, Check out the specs:
Tyan i7525 Wokstation
• Dual mPGA604 ZIF sockets
• Up to two Intel® Xeon™ processors
• Dual onboard 4-phase VRDs (VRD 10.1 spec.)
• Front-Side Bus support for 800MHz
• Eight 240-pin 1.8V DDR2-400 DIMM sockets
• Supports up to 16GB DDR2 RAM
• Dual channel memory bus
• One PCI Express x16 Graphics slot
• One PCI-X 64-bit 133/100/66MHz (3.3V) slot
• Two PCI-X 64-bit 100/66MHz (3.3V) slots
• Two PCI 32-bit 33MHz (5V) slot
• Total of six usable slots
Has integrated firewire. I have run dual 15k rpm U160 SCSI seagate cheetahs (with fans on them to keep them cool) in a Raid 0 config on what I call my "excess" machine, but was (previously) always limited by the bus capability of most ATX size boards. Not with this baby - it's just begging for two Ultra 320 drives. I like it - Check it out the picture at http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderi7525.html
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DrJohn on 08/10/04 00:29 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
To finish this systmes would cost about 3500 to 5000 dollar but sure it a nice systmes Gi ethernet dro p on PCIEX on nortbridge.PCIX controleur drop on PCIEX 4X.It just wonder why the SCSI chip is not using is own PCI EX 4X bus and leave the PXH with is own.I would have to look at intel website if there 2 4X lane on tumwater.
i need to change useur name.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by juin on 08/10/04 11:45 AM.</EM></FONT></P>