Help Dead computer!

christof · Sep 20, 2004

Hi everyone I am in deperate need of some help. It's a long story so be patient.

My computer was working fine for 18 months or so, but in the last few weeks the display had started to go strange, as if there was a virus on the system. I got my important files off and decided to run a new full install of XP pro hoping that would solve the problem.

Any how when ever I got to the screen that says loading windows files at the bottom of the page, the display goes completely, like vertical Coloured bars with strange little graphics in between them, and the hard drive makes a clicking sound then stops reading, as if it is reading each sector 1 by 1, very slowly.

Ok, hard drive has died, so I buy a new hard drive, I go to format the drive to NTFS (quick), and it says that no hard drive can be detected. So I choose the other format option and it just hangs, I can't even install windows, the display does the same thing, or the system hangs, or re - boots itself, and the drive still makes the strange clicking noise.

I have ruled out the hard drive because the same thing is happening with the new one that happened with the old one, so I'm left with either the memory, the PSU or the motherboard itself, but I'm not sure.

If any one has any expierience of this problem I would appreciate the help.

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

Crashman · Sep 21, 2004

I'd get out my spare system and start testing parts.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

christof · Sep 21, 2004

Solved the problem now. Rookie mistake, I was looking for the most technical problem when I should have looked at the basics first. It was the IDE cable that was at fault.

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

christof · Sep 21, 2004

what's that saying....don't count your chickens until they've hatched.
installed XP pro. No probs so far.

I've set everything up all the relevant drivers for devices. Installed the stock factory driver for the graphics card. Again no probs so far.

Benn using for about 2-3 hours surfing the net, downloading anti virus up dates, and everything is still stable.

Then from no where the system re-boots, loads windows and comes up saying the fault has occured because of the driver for the graphics card, then the display goes funny. I re-boot try to start in safe mode to delete drivers and start again, but it won't get to safe mode, it re-boots.

Try to start normally and I get the blue screen of death saying
" unmountable_boot_volume ". So I can't even get into windows to put any updated drivers on.

What's wrong? Am I going to have to re-install windows again, and try my luck, or will it just happen again.

I have tried to re do a full install of XP pro, only it won't get far enough into the install before the display goes again.

So now I'm really stuck, can't get into windows to delete drivers, and can't re-install windows.

Oh how I love computers!!!!!!!!

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

Crashman · Sep 21, 2004

Perhaps your video card is overheating?

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

christof · Sep 21, 2004

would an overheating video card cause those sort of problems.

It is a standard card, I have not done any overclocking to the hardware, and I don't use any real graphic intense progs.

I probably play Championship Manager, more often than not, and use for the internet.

Someone has suggested the error message " unmountable boot volume " is an XP pre SP1 error, and to run chkdisk/r to sort the problem out, but that doesn't do anything.

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

Shinobi · Sep 21, 2004

I wonder if it is your system board, maybe it took a dive? Have you tried putting your hard drive on the secondary channel to see if maybe your IDE controller is good/bad? Does your system board have on-board video? Maybe take out your vid card and see if the on-board works?

When you are reloading XP on your machine, are you doing an FDISK first, format and then loading XP?

When you boot up, do you get the option to hit "Last Known Good Configuration?"

Every great journey begins with the first step.Edited by Shinobi on 09/21/04 03:48 PM.

Crashman · Sep 22, 2004

Well, the graphical errors would point at the card, but not with 100% certainty.

But a card crashing the system could damage system files.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Sep 22, 2004

BTW, I'm starting to wonder if it's a bad motherboard. Check for leaking bottoms or swollen tops on the capacitors.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

DOOM · Sep 22, 2004

Yeah, I agree with Crashman. You should visually inspect the motherboard to verify that there is no damage.

Other than that, I would suspect the memory more than the video card. Try running memtest86.

Get the latest version here: <A HREF="http://www.memtest86.com/" target="_new">http://www.memtest86.com/</A>
Unpack the zip and run the INSTALL.BAT file with a blank floppy in the drive.
Put the floppy in the damaged computer and boot to it.

It will run through every nibble of addressible memory. If this test gives you errors, then the memory is probably the problem. You can check the <A HREF="http://www.memtest86.com/#trouble" target="_new">troubleshooting section</A> of the memtest86 page to get more help with diagnosing failed tests.

____
P4C800-E Dlx, P4 3.0 @ 3.5MHz, 1024 Corsair @ 5550MB/s, 72GB WD 10,000rpm SATA as RAID-0 @ 92MB/s, Antec TruePower 480W, Zalman 7000 AlCu HSF, Arctic Silver III, FSB 233, CPUv 1.6, 3-4-3-7 PAT

christof · Sep 22, 2004

Shinobi : Have you tried putting your hard drive on the secondary channel to see if maybe your IDE controller is good/bad?

I tried swapping them around, and the same things happen. It won't load into windows.

Shinobi : Does your system board have on-board video? Maybe take out your vid card and see if the on-board works?

Unfortunately my motherboard doesn't have on board graphics, that 1 thing I looked for at the start, and like a fool I put my old graphics card in the bin.

Shinobi : When you are reloading XP on your machine, are you doing an FDISK first, format and then loading XP?

The FDISK won't work, it doesn't recognise the drive.

Shinobi : When you boot up, do you get the option to hit "Last Known Good Configuration?"

Yep I get that option, and I've already been there and done that one to, still the same outcome.

Crashman : I'm going to have a little look at the board to see if I can see anything, but I'm not well up on those sort of things.

Doom : I'm going to try the memtest thing now and see what happens.

I'll post and let you know how it's going on. Thanks everyone for your help and ideas.

I am starting to wonder about the main board though as well, I have noticed that the small fan on the main board, it has a sticker
on it saying 8X agp, it has been making a few strange noises, and seems to stop and start.

I'll try the memtest and let you know.

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

christof · Sep 22, 2004

just tried the memtest and it won't work. As soon as the memtest screen comes up the display goes, so I can't run it.

One interesting note is that on the very first screen when you turn your computer on, where it says what type of bios you have, and the drives that have been detected, a small message flashes up about something to do with a conducter cable. Now the screen only stays on for like a second then it loads the next screen so I can't get the full message.

It definately says about a conducter cable, and the it has (80) like that at the end of the message.

If it sounds like the board has blown, I've had it about 18 months so I don't thing the manufacturers warranty is still in date, and I need a new board, what would you recommend?

I'm running an XP2400+.

Again many thanks

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

DOOM · Sep 22, 2004

That screen is called a "POST" (Power-On Self Test).

The message you're getting could be telling you to use an 80-conductor IDE ribbon to connect your harddrive to the motherboard. ATA66 and ATA100 drives require an 80-conductor ribbon as opposed to a 40-conductor one to operate at full speed. However, even if you use the 40-conductor ribbon, the drive will still work, just at ATA33 speed. This is not the cause of your problem, though it may be a related symptom.

(FYI, if a message flashes too quickly for you to read, you can press the "Pause" button on the keyboard which will pause execution of the system long enough for you to read the message. Hit any key to resume.)

We need to back up for a moment. First thing you need to do is remove EVERYTHING and see if the motherboard can boot properly.

A. Only the motherboard, power supply, power switch, and speaker should be connected. Try booting. The motherboard fan should spin up and stay at a steady RPM. Also, the speaker should beep to tell you there's no processor.

B. Add the processor and HSF. Try booting. The motherboard fan and the processor fan should both spin up and stay at a steady RPM. The speaker should beep to tell you there's no memory.

C. Add the memory. Try booting. The fans shouls spin up and stay steady and the speaker should beep to tell you there's no video card.

D. Add the video card. Try booting. The fans should spin up and stay steady and the system should POST and tell you that there is no keyboard attached.

E. Add the keyboard. Try booting. The fans should spin up and stay steady and the system should POST and tell you that there is no boot drive. The system will wait with a blinking cursor indefinitely until you turn it off or hit Ctrl-Alt-Del (i.e. it shouldn't turn off or reboot by itself).

If ANY of these steps fails, then most likely it is your motherboard or your power supply. If you get through all these steps with no problems, then it is probably your memory or power supply. Even if the result is not definitive, there may be some helpful information gained from this test.

Please be sure to keep a notepad and jot down each configuration and the result of each test. This will come in VERY HANDY later, when you can't remember which of 100 tries got a certain result.

Judging from the sporadic re-boots, system crashes, and fan jitters you're describing, I am really beginning to suspect the power supply.

At this point, this is what I would do:

1. Buy a new power supply and motherboard for testing.

2. Hook up the new power supply to your existing system and run through the test sequence A-E above. If the problem disappears, then your existing power supply is bad. Don't use it on another system! Now you can try installing the hard drive, booting into windows, and running the system as normal.

3. If there is still a problem, then run through the test sequence A-E above with the new motherboard and the new power supply, but with your existing CPU, memory, and video. If all problems disappear, then your existing motherboard is bad. The power supply could also be bad if it is the reason your motherboard is blown. Don't use the old power supply!

4. If you are still experiencing problems with the new motherboard and the new power supply, then start replacing your components one-by-one with new stuff, starting with memory, then CPU, then video card, testing after each replacement. If you find that a certain replacement makes the problem go away, then that was the culprit all along, and you can move all your old components, plus the new replacement component back to the old motherboard. Keep the new power supply, and test again. If everything is working, give yourself some peace of mind and throw away the old power supply. Sometimes components do just "go bad", but this is a very suspicious circumstance. You don't want to risk hooking that old thing up to your new, working rig, and blow everything to hell again.

Keep in mind, all of this testing is done with NO hard drives / floppies / devices / cards / etc. attached. Only the core components needed to BOOT the system (even though it won't run anything).

Also, as long as the power supply is suspect, DON'T USE IT ON ANOTHER SYSTEM, otherwise you could end up with two machines that don't work.

Good luck, and try to have fun with it.

____
P4C800-E Dlx, P4 3.0 @ 3.5MHz, 1024 Corsair @ 5550MB/s, 72GB WD 10,000rpm SATA as RAID-0 @ 92MB/s, Antec TruePower 480W, Zalman 7000 AlCu HSF, Arctic Silver III, FSB 233, CPUv 1.6, 3-4-3-7 PAT

DOOM · Sep 22, 2004

If you're at your wits' end and you just want to get a new system running, a new motherboard will suit you nicely. However, I really strongly recommend ALSO replacing the power supply. Go with a higher end name brand, like Antec, Enermax, Fortron, or ThermalTake.

As for motherboards I am not familiar with AMD boards, so I could not really recommend one to you.

____
P4C800-E Dlx, P4 3.0 @ 3.5MHz, 1024 Corsair @ 5550MB/s, 72GB WD 10,000rpm SATA as RAID-0 @ 92MB/s, Antec TruePower 480W, Zalman 7000 AlCu HSF, Arctic Silver III, FSB 233, CPUv 1.6, 3-4-3-7 PAT

christof · Oct 1, 2004

I'd like to thank everyone for the input, sorry I haven't replied in a while, I've had my fav job to do....decorating!!!!!

Any how I was at a frustration point, and ended up sending the machine in to some body with more knowledge than me.

The verdict was that a had a whole bunch of wires blocking the back fan on my PSU. I've got an Antec 450w true power dual fan. The engineer put cable sleeves on all the un-used cables to get a better air circulation, and he managed to get the system working. He also mentioned that my PSU could be faulty, and to keep an eye on it.

Any how it's back set up and working, had a funny incedent earlier where it wouldn't boot, but I fixed that by not having the power cable in a double wall socket adapter with my speakers.

I tried to install half life counter strike, and it re-booted during install, so I'm thinking a new PSU is needed. I ran motherboard monitor on start up and got the following readings:-

case 42c
CPU 51c
core0 1.87v (C) 1.82v (L) 1.87v (H)
core1 1.33v (C) 1.33v (L) 1.33v (H)
+3.3v 3.28v (C) 3.25v (L) 3.30v (H)
+5.00 4.75v (C) 4.58v (L) 4.75v (H)
+12.00 12.46v 12.46v 12.52v
-12 -6.07 -6.70 -5.79

Hope some one can make sense of these and offer an opinion.

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

pat · Oct 2, 2004

I would first put a 80 wires cable in if you have a 40 to connect your HDD. Did that mistake once and got plenty of problem with file corruption, no boot,...

Try that first...that a small investment compared to a PSU...

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

endyen · Oct 2, 2004

I hope that mbm does not properly identify your mobo. If you are feeding 1.87v to your chip, you may let all the smoke out of it. Try to change it to 1.75, if it's an older core, 1.65 if it's newer.

christof · Oct 2, 2004

Already have the 80 cable connected, they came with the motherboard.

ENDYEN : I went through this same thing with the voltage 12 months ago, I can't seem to change the volt from 1.87. I have tried in the bios, the option is grayed out and can't be accessed.

AMD athlon XP2400+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP M/B
Generic 2700 512mb ram
MSI 128mb ddr 8X AGP Graphics card
Seagate 120mb 7200rpm 8mb cache H/D
CD-RW + DVD
S/B Live 5.1 audio card.

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