To build or not to build + 478 vs 775

[EricTetz]

OK, haven't built a machine in 5+ years, so forgive my general cluelessness.

I need more horsepower for video editing and audio recording. I also want to be able to play Half-Life 2 well, but don't need a bleeding-edge gaming rig. I'm trying to figure out if I should build a machine, and if I do if I should go socket 478 or 775 (or maybe even Athalon).

I just ordered my girlfriend a refurb Dell 8400: 350W PS -- 925X E chipset w/4 DDR2 400-533Mhz slots, 3 PCI/PCIEx1/PCIEx16 slots -- P4 530 -- 512 DRR2 (2 x 400MHz NON-ECC) -- 80 GB SATA (7200rpm, 8.9ms, 4.17ms, 8MB) -- 128MB PCIe ATI X300 SE -- 12X DVD+RW -- Windows XP, keyboard, mouse. Total: <b>$606</b> including tax and shipping!

I'm think about getting the same thing for myself. Can I beat it? Should I even try? One issue is no Fireware support, so I'll have waste a PCI slot on a Firewire card. I'd also want to upgrade the videocard -- the sweet spot for my budget seem to be the ATI 9800, but ATI doesn't offer that card or it's equivalent in PCIe.

If I build my own machine, should I go socket 775/PCIe/DDR2 like this Dell, or will I get more bang for the buck going socket 478 (at the cost of future upgradability, which isn't <i>that</i> much of a concern for me)? I seem to have a lot more choices of motherboards and videocards if I go socket 478 & AGP. Or, what about Athalon -- keeping in mind that this is a audio/video workstation first and gaming rig second.

Any suggestions/advice/links/whatever are greatly appreciated.

 

[RichPLS]

What video card, O/S, software bundle and P4 Processor did you get with that $600 Dell?

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<font color=red> And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign </font color=red>

 

[Carnecerro]

It says right in his post - P4 530, ATI x300SE, and Win XP.

 

[Carnecerro]

From Newegg

P4C 3.0 - $180
Abit IS7 - $76
Mushkin 512MB DDR-400 - $76
9800 Pro - $199
Hitachi 80 gig Sata - $65
Lite-on 8x DVD burner - $68
Fortron 400 watt PS - $58.50
Case - $30

Total - $752.50

Most of that is tied up in the 9800 Pro you wanted. I think the extra cash would be worth it.

 

[RichPLS]

But the software included with the Dell is worth something also.

_____________________________________________
<font color=red> And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign </font color=red>

 

[EricTetz]

Most of that is tied up in the 9800 Pro you wanted. I think the extra cash would be worth it.

Take away the 9800 Pro (to level the playing field) and the total is $550, the same as the Dell (described above). Add Windows XP and it's $100 <i>more</i>, and the Dell is DDR2/PCIe rather than DDR1/AGP and designed to be very quiet.

So, do you think the IS7 and name-brand RAM will make the P4 out-perform her machine, and by enough to justify an extra $100, reduced long-term upgrade potential, and potentially greater noise? That's my dilemma. Back when I bought my last machine, it was a no-brainer to build your own -- you just got more for your money -- but now I'm having a hard time justifying it.

 

[RichPLS]

Unless you like to tweak and play with configuring your hardware, Dell is great. Good warranty, good components, and support tech on line 24-7.
It is difficult to beat some big-tier dealers in price, considering software and support.
Dell makes good products, its just that computer techies do not like them.
Their products have modified BIOS's that do not allow tweaking, and some propietary connections, and Dell does not always offer the fastest hardware compared to independant manufactures components.
But to many who do not want to overclock, and want reliability and security over the possibility of an 5-percent or so gain in performance and calling tech support with issues, Dell rules the market.

I will probally take a lot of flak for this, so be it, it is the truth.

_____________________________________________
<font color=red> And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign </font color=red>

 

[endyen]

Mostly, I agree with you, except for the 5%. It starts off closer to 10%, and gets worse from there. If you have built your own rig, you learned a few tricks to keep the startmenu clean, and are better able to keep the guts clean.
Computers are all about interactive, and the aint nothing interactive about a Dell.

 

[Crashman]

Hehe, 5% or so performance gain of a 9800 Pro over the X300SE? X300SE is the new version of the 9600SE, which is slower than a 9600, which is slower than a 9500, which is slower than a 9600 Pro, which is slower than a 9500 Pro, which is slower than a 9700, which is slower than a 9700 Pro, which is slower than a 9800, which is slower than a 9800 Pro. Not to forget the 9550 and XT's.

We're talking possibly a 500% performance difference on the video card, not a 5% difference.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[EricTetz]

<i>"If you have built your own rig, you learned a few tricks to keep the startmenu clean, and are better able to keep the guts clean. Computers are all about interactive, and the aint nothing interactive about a Dell."</i>

Naturally the first thing I'd do with a new Dell is reformat the hard disk and install Windows from scratch, so that's not an issue.

<i>"Hehe, 5% or so performance gain of a 9800 Pro over the X300SE?"</i>

I think he was talking about the base platform, minus the videocard -- building it yourself from name-brand parts vs buying a similarly specced machine from Dell. Compare carnecerro's shopping list (above) with the Dell machine I originally described (without GPU).

I'm leaning towards buying a machine so I can get a slightly beefier power supply and built-in 1394 ports, and because I've read that the advantages of socket 775 and DDR2 won't really be realized until the faster bus speeds and RAM come out, so for the moment I should be able to get better performance from a socket 478 machine.

On the other hand, the Dell's are a great bargain, they are known to be very quiet, and I can pretty much guarantee it will work right out of the box without any wonky compatibility issues. I keep an eye on the online stockroom (which can change dramatically from one minute to the next) -- if a killer deal comes up, I may not be able to resist.

 

[RichPLS]

Hey, if you learn about the basics, do your research, and build or buy a Dell, that investigation will mean you know what you want, and what you will get, and at the right price too. So you are assured to be pleased, and feel like you got a bargain. Either way.


_____________________________________________
<font color=red> And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign </font color=red>

 

[georgebeee]

you said something about not having an AGP slot, but having a PCI-E slot. actually, that's a good thing, the 6600GT is $200 and competes with the 9800xt from what I've been reading. so for the money I would think that is a better deal than the 9800 pro

<A HREF="http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q3/geforce-6600gt/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">clicky</A>

man who fart in church, sit in his own pew

 

[pat]

The AMD64 could be a good option too. Even if you do video, the AMD is good at that too. From the list the other guy posted, change that:

From newegg:

AMD64 3000+ 164$
Soltek k8an2e-gr 99$


That what I have here except 1gigs RAM with 2 twinX from my other system and very satisfied (I know I dont need dual channel memory, but I had them and at the price I paid for them 2 year ago...I rather keep them!).

For the rest, well For HDD, check Seagate SATA drives..they come with 5 years warranty. That was I have here, 2 x 160gigs in raid 0.

Even if ATI doesnt have PCIe, the 9800 is a good card. I'm not ready to jump in DDR2 and PCIe now. I rather give them more time to mature, so plain "old" fast system should do good.

One thing I notice from the other list, it list only one stick. I dont know a lot about Intel processor and board, but this kit might be able to run dual channel. you need 2 stick of mem for that. running single channel will slow down your system a bit, so the AMD setup should even do better in video. Maybe I'm wrong..somebody knows?

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[EricTetz]

Well, I bought the Dell.

P4 3.0 GHz (Intel 925x, PCIe16, PCEe1, 3 PCI)
1 GB DDR2 400 (2x512)
250 GB SATA 7200 rpm
16X DVD ROM
16X DVD + RW
128 MB PCIe X300 SE
Windows XP Home, mouse, keyboard

$648 including tax and shipping! Insane deal courtesy of Dell Outlet (refurbs) and some coupons I found online.

I wanted to build, but there is <i>no way</i> I could build a machine like that for $650. I tried. Even going with the older i865 chipset (Abit IS7), a much smaller drive, no DVD ROM, no video card, keyboard or mouse, I was still close to a $1000 after tax and shipping on Newegg. Now I have a beefier machine <i>and</i> an extra $300+ to spend on a videocard.

Thanks to everyone for their input, especially RichPLS for making me feel like it was a reasonable question, and carnecerro for his Newegg shopping list that was the basis for many of my comparisons. BTW: Newegg rocks.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by EricTetz on 10/15/04 05:20 PM.</EM></FONT></P>