I want to cry

[gormly]

well.. not really.

But my headache is so bad it's killing me.

I need a new system and I want to build it.
I used to be able to do that in my sleeep but these days.. too many choices.

I need a "Gamers" motherboard, not that I know what the difference is. But I want to play Battlefield 2 (amoung others) without an issue

Here is what I need, a board that:

-Supports the latest video cards (meaning they can "handle" them)
-supports an Intel 3.4 Processor
-supports DDR AND DDR2 (at least 2 Gig)
-Supports Regular Hard drives.. not Sata because I have a dozen drives and do not want to go out and buy new ones..
(sata AND ide support would be cool)
-Has network, firewire USB on board (all though none are absolutley required)
-fits in a standard case so I do not have to make sure I buy a "special" case and or power supply

I do not need:
The bleeding edge of fanticism..
I don't "think" the boards needs the new PCI, but what the heck?

I am confused as to wehat is best.. the fatality board seems good but it has only sata drives which would cost me a lot more money.

any thoughts on helping me with this?

The more I read, the worse it gets...

 

[fishmahn]

-Supports the latest video cards (meaning they can "handle" them)

The latest video cards for now come in both PCI-Express and AGP. Today's the day of choices. Tomorrow's video card may only come in PCI-E flavor. Don't know whether that means 2005, or 2009, but eventually, top-of-the-line video cards will only come PCI-E.

-supports an Intel 3.4 Processor

OK... Best gaming performance is with an AMD Athlon 64, but its your money.

-supports DDR AND DDR2 (at least 2 Gig)

Both? That means you're limited to 2 sockets of each type, and that means a 2gig limit. Since today's mobo's can't use the not-yet-available speed of DDR2 that will make it faster than DDR, there's not much point in this. When DDR2/667 becomes available and CPU's support it, your mobo will have to be replaced anyways. Today, DDR400 performs better than DDR2/400, and DDR2/533 was just recently announced, so I don't know if it's better/worse/same as DDR memory.

-Supports Regular Hard drives.. not Sata because I have a dozen drives and do not want to go out and buy new ones.. (sata AND ide support would be cool)

That makes your search more difficult - the 915/925 specs from Intel are for 1 IDE connection (2 drives). Some mobos use extra controllers onboard that give you a couple more connections, so you have to look for that. SATA and IDE is on almost every board nowadays. Another thought - don't know if they work or not, but some vendors have plugs that convert an IDE drive to a SATA drive - might ease your pain if you can't get enough IDE connections.

-Has network, firewire USB on board (all though none are absolutley required)

Almost all do, firewire is the least common, and it's probably on 50% or so.

-fits in a standard case so I do not have to make sure I buy a "special" case and or power supply

Although BTX form factor spec is released, 99% of boards are still ATX form factor, so there's no problem here.

I don't "think" the boards needs the new PCI, but what the heck?

You either go PCI-E or AGP. One or the other, not both. This is the next step past regular PCI, and it replaces AGP. Today, PCI-E boards have both PCI-E and PCI slots, eventually they won't, but that may take a few years (how long did ISA slots take to really disappear...)

If it's PCI-E, you have to buy a new video card. If AGP, you can use your old one (don't know if you were planning on getting a new graphics card or not, so there's both options).

That said, since you're set on Intel: The 915/925 Intel chipset is your choice if you go PCI-E. the 865/875 chipset for AGP. 915/925 is Socket 775, 865/875 is socket 478. I'm betting that all new Intel cpu releases will be for 775 only, so 478 seems like a dead-end upgrade-wise. Currently a 3.4 can be had for either socket, but faster is only 775 I think. The 925XE chipset can use DDR2/533 and 1066 fsb processors, so if you're going DDR2, I would go with that one.

Brands? Don't know what brands have 925XE boards available yet, but Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, DFI, all recommended by various members here, and almost all are un-recommended by someone too. Got to check specs - especially IDE connections - and get the one that fits your needs best.

Just remember: Prescott CPUs get HOT. There are published reviews that show the 3.8ghz P4 hits its heat threshhold and is constantly throttling itself to keep cool under load. Cooling becomes very important.

Mike.

 

[Wulfyn]

Last year I bought an AOpen AX4SPE-Max. It has a lot of the features that you are looking for, and THG seem to regard it very highly due to the high quality parts and many features it has. It is updated to the Max II now, but that has been out for a while (6-9months), so I don't know what the next stage is.


The Max has an 865PE chipset, so will run a S478 3.4Ghz P4 (Prescott) fine. It has SATA and IDE control (4 of each), as well as DDR400 support, and dual channel. It uses an 8xAGP bus, comes with gigabit LAN, onboard sound, 8 USB 2.0 ports and an internal firewire adapter (mine came boxed with a separate mini-firewire card that could be mounted and plugged in easily.

Overall this board has worked fantastically with me, and has yet to even glance at a problem (I'm gonna regret saying that...), so it may be worth a look.


Hope that helps.

 

[gormly]

Thats awesome, thanks...
I appreciate your time on this.

 

[gormly]

Thank you
Very informative
I didn't even know about the socket 775 but I don't think I need to worry about the future at this point, I stick with a computer for about 3 years and then rebuild. I do not fret about not having the latest (until my stuff gets really old) :>

I think I will go with the AOpen "AX4SPE Max II" right now it seems to fit all my needs and you helped dispell the "false" needs.

thanks so much..
on my way to Newegg to get the following:

Case:
Model# VA3000SWA
Item # N82E16811133133
Thermaltake VA3000 Dream Tower Tsunami VA3000SWA ATX Case
$106.00

Motherboard:
AOpen "AX4SPE Max II" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU
Model# AX4SPE MAX II
Item # N82E16813137045
$117.00

Power:
COOLMAX 400W CX-400B, BLACK, Taurus CX Series Silent Power Supply
Model# CX-400B (Black)
Item # N82E16817159023
$38.00


Video:
AOpen nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "91.05210.401" -RETAIL
Model# 91.05210.401
Item # N82E16814135154
$405.00

OR

Video:
REFURBISHED: CHAINTECH nVIDIA GeForce 6600 Video Card, 256MB DDR, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out
Model# SE6600/256
Item # N82E16814145099R
$138.00

Memory:
pqi POWER Series 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200
Model# MD4412UOE
Item # N82E16820141164
$66.00 X 4


Hard Drive:
Maxtor 300GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model 6B300S0
Model# 6B300S0
Item # N82E16822144359
$204.00

Not sure if I want to spend the cash on a Video Card right this moment.. since Battlefield 2 isn't out yet, the price may come down by then.

Maybe I will stick with my GeForce 3 Ti500

what do you think about the above?

 

[RichPLS]

I would reconsider that PSU. Not sure of the specs on that, but $38 is not enough for a 500w PSU, especially a silent one, which generally command higher price.
For economy, the Fortran 530watt goes for around $70 and is a very good solution, but not silent.
It is very important to have stable solid power, and worth the investment.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

 

[Cybercraig]

CoolMax makes a damn good PSU. I love the 400w in my back-up case. 3-speed 120mm fan really moves the air. The heatsink is heavy as is the whole unit. The voltages are right on. What more do you need?

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot

 

[gormly]

thank you for your input, it is truly appreciated.

it is a 400 power supply not 500 (as far as I know)

and although I value all opinions...I might add that just because something is less expensive than something else.. doesn't mean it is not as good.
Higher cost does not equal better performance or quality.

If I put a bag of **** for sale on eBay and listed it as "The Ultimate bag of **** - Rare Find, One of a Kind" and put a price on it for $10,000 I'd bet some idiot would buy it and then thank me for the opportunity.

:>

 

[mozzartusm]

This may be to late, but if your going with Thermaltake get the Shark series. Its their newest case. I have the Tsunami and the Shark and the Tsunami is alot hotter than the Shark, especially with that processor. The Shark looks better is built much better and has more room.

 

[jammydodger]

I think an athlon64 would give you better value for money. A 3400+ would def beat the P4 3.4 in games, it would be much cooler.
If you are certain about getting a P4 system I wouldnt bother with DDR2 it is to costly for the performance gains over DDR.

 

[mozzartusm]

and although I value all opinions...I might add that just because something is less expensive than something else.. doesn't mean it is not as good.
Higher cost does not equal better performance or quality.

As far the Higher cost statement you made. When it comes to PSU's your statement is wrong most of the time!
You asked for advice, and some of the replies you got were from people that have alot of experience. Some of these guys are among the best in my opionion. You are probably going to find out the hard way, and I hope for your sake that this PSU will hold up. What many people do not realized is that the PSU in many ways is as important if not more so than the other parts of your system. That cheap PSU can screw your whole system and if it doesnt hold up to its specs then your system will never be stable. Your attempting to build a nice system, but you already have some challenges ahead of you and this PSU will most likely make this new system a nightmare.

 

[gormly]

what I said wasn't meant to be an offense to you.
I am sorry if It came across that way.

You actually made me look at the PSU harder and look for user comments on newegg for each PSU

I do value your opinion and those of everyone else here.

 

[gormly]

I have always had a prejudice against amd..
when I was building systems for a rental company years ago, the AMD would fail where the Pentium would not.

maybe I should rethink that?
How about a board for the high end AMD?

what is better and fits my list?

 

[gormly]

it does look better but it costs way too much
the cooling is really that much better?

I was looking to ad a case fan and blower combo that they have at newegg, would that even it out?

 

[RichPLS]

The NewEgg user comments are not professional nor necesarily experience user opinions.
Better reviews are found using google, type in the make and model along with the word review and search.
You will then find some professional reviews, some biased others unbiased. That is where you will find more accurate honest reports of your components.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

 

[endyen]

Amd definatly offers a better performance platform for gaming. They are not as prone to the heat problems of the Intel chips, as well.
For Amd, the best chipset comes from nvidia, the nforce3 250, for agp.
A s939 chip will still perform better in games than a comperable Intel chip.
If you have any doubt of the gaming advantage of A64 <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041101/925xe-08.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041101/925xe-08.html</A> or any review site.
My recommendations are Asus for s754 (better performance, but less upgrade options) or gigabyte for s939.
Socket 939 does not perform as well as s754, but you can now buy 90 nano chips for them,that put out a max of 50 watts, not bad, since the P4e puts out a max 115 watts.

 

[mozzartusm]

Yes, it cools much better than the Tsunami. Having said that, you could probably cool the Tsunami ok with the extra fans. There isnt much space left over to mount fans on that case however. One fan that you should just take off and replace with a better one is the side panel fan. They come on the cases with the clear side panel, im not sure about the solid ones. The side panel fan is a piece of junk. It doesnt mve enough air to justify it being placed there. You problably could buy a fan the same size for $10.00 - $15.00 to put in its place. One more trick to consider if you get the Tsunami is getting a piece of rubber or plastic hose(Clear looks better) that is the same size or real close to the size of the fan bracket. Attach the hose to the fan bracket and run the other end to within an inch or two of the CPU. All this does is channel air directly to or from the CPU. If you do happen to get a 775 CPU I would stay away from the Tsuanmi and get the Shark for sure. Im building a 775 system right now, but if I hadnt already gotten the CPU I would go a different route.