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MMO's, pushing my buttons

Last response: in Video Games
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July 19, 2010 10:13:09 PM

Hey, I am a recent discoverer of the MMO genre and enjoy a good space swashbuckling in eve online. The control system is fairly awesome except that you click to control your vessel...whether it is a frigate or a leviathan deathstar like thing. (would totally be neat if frigates had to use joysticks)

anyways a few months back I tried out Aion as it seemed to be a neato upgrade from the World of Warcraft that I never had a desire to play in the 1st place. I was immensely surprised to find that combat involved selecting an enemy and then clicking on various combat moves...

I was appalled and immediately wanted my money back, but I played a few missions anyways because I already opened the box etc. In eve online it makes sense to push buttons, on lets say...a control panel of your ship to activate weapon turrets. When you strike out with a sword pushing a button seems a bit daft.

I was even more appaled to find out that ALL mmo's follow this combat system of fail and more are set for release later this year with the same crap. WHAT GIVES?

If the new final fantasy requires that i select baddies with my mouse and push buttons to swing a sword I will be royally pissed. In fact Im fairly sure its going down that way. *gets pissed*

I found few articles related to this critical downfall upon a swift google search. Does anyone else share my disgust?

WHEN WILL THEY MAKE AN MMO WITH A COMBAT SYSTEM LIKE OBLIVION. PPL WOULD EAT IT UP LIKE PR0N IN A PRISON, NO?!?!



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July 19, 2010 10:56:33 PM

ok I know I said a lot there so lets rephrase this in one sentence for those of u who don't read more than 1 paragraph.

WHEN WILL THEY MAKE AN MMO WITH A COMBAT SYSTEM LIKE OBLIVION. PPL WOULD EAT IT UP LIKE PR0N IN A PRISON, NO?!?!
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July 21, 2010 10:57:15 AM

the wow combat system annoyed the hell out of me because it was just spamming a selection of buttons over and over again.

i loved the FFXI battle system, i found it a lot more challenging than wow and i really hope FFXIV is based on it but i dont think it is.

eve online sounds similar to wow but i havent played it.

you should have a look at the ffxi battle system on youtube and even the ffxiv one; though i dont think you will like it either.
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July 21, 2010 6:02:06 PM

Hitting buttons is a part of life with PC's let alone gaming. there are different ways to implement it into a combat system though. Im not familar with the Oblivion combat system so maybe you could explain it a little more?

I know the upcoming Tera online there is no targeting system involved its just, if they are in range of your melee weapon they get hit when you swing (can hit multiple foes in one swing if they are all in the path of the swing). You just got to find the MMO appropriate for you.

Darkfall also uses an FPS style combat system and is an MMO.
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July 22, 2010 5:14:32 AM

yes yes...just need fps style combat system in mmo.

i shall look into this darkfall you speak of.

Indeed it is sad, but i ph33r i will be gravely disappointed with the new final fantasy combat system.

mrecio, if you tried oblivion you would know what your missing....a FAR superior form of button mashing is going on there.
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July 22, 2010 9:27:58 AM

FPS style combat in a mmo, Star Wars Galaxies half a halfway attempt at it, but the game wasnt built with that in mind from the ground up so it causes issues... SWG Also has twitch combat in space - joystick using, and multiplayer space ships which you can decorate the interior of and walk around with your friends, and then all take different turrets \ crew positions and take on other players or NPC ships.
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July 23, 2010 5:20:34 PM

yeah I have heard of galaxies a lot, especially on this issue and it sounds really fun. The problem is its horribly outdated and new games seem to be following a dumbed down control system as described above.

Why are we regressing in funness? Do developers think we like having 200 buttons at the bottom of the screen because we are used to it?
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July 24, 2010 8:03:08 AM

The ground side can be a bit dated, it is 7 years old BUT it was pretty much the best graphics of the generation 7 years ago. If your PC's good enough turning up the settings does help, space side theres nothing really wrong with the graphics.

Ground side there are mod packs to improve graphics there a "ILM experience" mod pack that adds some dx10 whistles and bells, largelly overhauling the lighting, and improving some textures. I use the mod but modified it further to suit my own tastes, largelly taking out things that I felt werent an improvement etc.

Its worth giving the free trial a go, after all it doesnt cost you anything :lol: 

I think games are pretty standard in controls because everyone wants to appeal to wows audience and make things a nice smooth experience for all those players. I dont appove so much of the standardisation of mmorpgs, where it seems you just pick your theme and go.

On the horizon is jumpgate evolution which I believe will be proper twitch based space combat mmorpg.
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July 24, 2010 3:18:25 PM

oh yeah forgot about jumgate and your definitely right about developers wanting to make the conversion from WoW easy. However I think the evidence is there that if a dev. created a unique combat system that was easy to learn just as many people would convert to it.

For example, everyone loves Bethesda's Oblivion and the controls were easy and fun to master. Wish they would just use a combat system like that more often.

When Aion came out I remember it being advertised as having a sweet new combat system. That simply turned out to be linking various button mashing together. I was appalled that I was not the only person playing this game. But then again I think something like 12 million people play WoW. Epic fail taste in games ppl of the earth.
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July 27, 2010 6:17:14 PM

If world of warcraft had the oblivion playstyle, the entire game would be even more incredibly imbalanced than it already is.

Why?

2h melee classes with current weapons would run around destroying people by clicking their mouse button a billion times per second. It would negate the point of having global cooldowns and swing timers.

Not saying that oblivion's playstyle isn't good, saying that an MMO wouldn't work very well with that type of play.
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July 27, 2010 8:10:32 PM

im sure there is some way to balance the classes. We are simply talking about a combat system more similar to an FPS...something more interactive than clicking 1/200 buttons you may have at the bottom of the screen.

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July 27, 2010 8:21:57 PM

The reason mmo's have the ability-oriented playstyle is because they are all or mostly adapted from rts or turn based strategy games where you have to choose your abilities from a menu. In reality, the global cooldown system that mmo's have is the adaptation that the games have to use in order to allow their classes to have more than 1-2 effective abilities.

You don't play mmo's to be a fps champ. The mmo type gameplay, i.e. global cooldowns with 20+ abilities per class is not going anywhere. If you don't like it, go play counter strike or CoD.
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July 27, 2010 8:23:13 PM

Oh, forgot to mention--

Good MMO players don't click. You have everything bound to your keyboard.
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July 27, 2010 11:26:34 PM

kyle382 said:
im sure there is some way to balance the classes. We are simply talking about a combat system more similar to an FPS...something more interactive than clicking 1/200 buttons you may have at the bottom of the screen.



Nowadays there is already a great variety of MMO games. Some MMO games are FPS, FPS/RPG or based on "twitch-skills". There is a surprising number of unique and even quite decent MMO games which are not advertised broadly or not advertised at all and thus remain unknown to the majority of gamers.
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July 28, 2010 7:23:17 AM

Like said above theres plenty of mmo's out there.

Global Agenda might be of interest to ya.

Newer fps mmo thats a sci-fi team fortress clone. No monthly fee and has been getting some big changes and content updates since its been released.





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July 29, 2010 1:37:19 PM

bertimus said:
The reason mmo's have the ability-oriented playstyle is because they are all or mostly adapted from rts or turn based strategy games where you have to choose your abilities from a menu. In reality, the global cooldown system that mmo's have is the adaptation that the games have to use in order to allow their classes to have more than 1-2 effective abilities.

You don't play mmo's to be a fps champ. The mmo type gameplay, i.e. global cooldowns with 20+ abilities per class is not going anywhere. If you don't like it, go play counter strike or CoD.


yes that much is obvious. What I'm wondering is....do they make one not like that. Because its friggin boring and repetitive and unrealistic.

It doesnt have to be a fps style necessarily, just not click the mouse, which is pushing a button, which is swinging a sword one way, click mouse which clicks a button, which may swing sword another way...It just feels disconnected and boring to me. I didn't ask if you thought it was the best system or not.

Ahhh the famous "go play that mainstream COD bs"..like I was'nt satisfied enough with mmo's (I mentioned liking eve online just fine) so now it is your duty to deter me to lesser games? Take ur zoloft buddy, smoke a herb and get a humble thought. Ur comment was completely nonconstructive.

If binding keys makes gameplay more realistic and interesting for you then perhaps you could describe that process instead of alluding to how much of a noob I must be to not have considered this. :sleep: 
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July 29, 2010 1:40:44 PM

thanks for all your game suggestions gentlemen. I think its clear I'm not asking for a new FPS game to play just by the title of the thread and most of you guys are giving me some great suggestions.

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July 29, 2010 3:50:20 PM

kyle382 said:
yes that much is obvious. What I'm wondering is....do they make one not like that. Because its friggin boring and repetitive and unrealistic.

It doesnt have to be a fps style necessarily, just not click the mouse, which is pushing a button, which is swinging a sword one way, click mouse which clicks a button, which may swing sword another way...It just feels disconnected and boring to me. I didn't ask if you thought it was the best system or not.

Ahhh the famous "go play that mainstream COD bs"..like I was'nt satisfied enough with mmo's (I mentioned liking eve online just fine) so now it is your duty to deter me to lesser games? Take ur zoloft buddy, smoke a herb and get a humble thought. Ur comment was completely nonconstructive.

If binding keys makes gameplay more realistic and interesting for you then perhaps you could describe that process instead of alluding to how much of a noob I must be to not have considered this. :sleep: 

When you bind, you make yourself more capable to react with the right ability at the right time, and it makes the game a whole lot easier when you get the hang of it. Learning to not turn with your keyboard also helps quite a bit. When you click, you limit yourself to turning with wasd and you have to stare at your UI for 95% of the gameplay, which isn't fun. If you bind your stuff to the keyboard and turn with your mouse, you can spend more time watching what you are doing, having fun with the game, and killing more internet dragons.

To your point though, I'm pretty sure that Fallen Earth game is more like a MMOFPS, although I haven't seen very many good reviews on it. Borderlands is kind of like a MMOTPS, but it isn't great either.
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July 29, 2010 5:50:40 PM

a few things,
1. Aion did add in an element where if you are moving while in combat you gain a bonus to different things... I think thats what they were talking about.
2. Age of Conan has something similar to that of Aion where you actually have to use different direction arrows in order to pull off some of the moves.
3. Borderlands is a fun game if you get a few people together to play.
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July 29, 2010 5:50:48 PM

There's an MMO game which is addictive partially because it is a long challenge to master the controls. For newbies there is a so-called "automatic firing system", which works primarily with the use of the mouse. Experienced players use a much more accurate but much more challenging "manual firing system", which works with the combination of keyboard and mouse. You can choose to install either automatic or manual firing system on your ship, but not both of them at once. An average player usually needs to spend dozens of hours to learn the basics of the manual firing system and hundreds of hours to become skilled at using it. The manual firing system enables a player to make a focused gun barrage through a process of aligning all the main guns of a ship in a cross-like trajectory. The manual system is also more accurate for hitting a target at a long range but success depends on player's skill to estimate and elevate the guns to the correct angle of fire.

In that game the left mouse button is used to set the heading of your ship or submarine (and in some cases to launch airplanes). The right mouse button is used to click where you want to point your guns if your ship is equipped with "automatic firing system". If you have a "manual firing system" instead of the automatic one, the right mouse button does nothing and you need to rotate your gun turrets or torpedo launchers using the A/D keyboard buttons and change the elevation of your guns using the W/S buttons (and Q/E buttons for crossing/uncrossing aft and rear gun turrets, which cannot be done at all with Automatic Firing System). Weapons are fired with the Space Bar button.

However, the game is not based entirely on player's skill. Every player is training a sailor crew (e.g., 5-7 sailors on destroyers, cruisers, submarines, or 9-14 sailors on battleships and carriers) and when you press the button to fire your guns, the game also takes into account the shooting ability of your gunner sailors. A very experienced player using manual firing system but with crappy (or low level) gunners can have even the most excellent and focused shot dispersed all over the place because of gunners' low "Gun Accuracy" ability.
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