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The system is coming. Did I make any mistakes?

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  • Motherboards
Last response: in Motherboards
February 9, 2005 5:24:43 PM

Here it is. Where did I screw up?

Hyundai L90D+ 19-inch LCD
Antec Sonata Case w/350W (Black)
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum nForce3 Ultra
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (90nm)
Corsair 1GB PC 3200 2-64x64 XMS
2 WesterDigital 74Gig Raptors (SATA)
EVGA GeForce 6800 Ultra (AGP)
PLEXTOR PX-716A (IDE)
Samsung 1.44 (Black)

Total Price?
$2015.59 (includes all shipping and taxes)

HOLY CRAP! My initial target was $1000 w/o monitor. Monitor only cost $361. Hope this system is Fast, Quiet, and doesn't need upgrading for 2-3 years.

Anyone see anything I made a mistake on? Hope not, because this puppy is on its way.

More about : system coming make mistakes

February 9, 2005 5:29:45 PM

You may not have enough power with only 350 W. According to the <A HREF="http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/" target="_new">Wattage Calculator</A> you will be very close to drawing the maximum power from your supply.
February 9, 2005 6:59:14 PM

Yeah, your pushing it with your PSU.

You wasted a little money on the GPU (not worth the price/performance in my opinion) - better card would have been 6800GT.

I hope that LCD is good for gaming (as I hope you built that system for - else you wasted alot of money :wink: ) else you will have 'ghosting' problems if you play FPS etc.

Very nice system overall though. Well researched!

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February 9, 2005 7:40:42 PM

I had a 430w picked out before I found this case with the PSU. I read reviews on newegg where people were saying this PSU is solid with pretty stout setups.

Will I be able to run the system short term without any harmful effects if it ends up being under powered? Short term being 1 week or so.

What's another $70 when you're $600+ over budget anyway? :)  Thanks for the tips and compliments. I basically chose this through this message board and the links provided. Next up will be 0 raid...... I don't know diddly about multiple HD's.

The reason I went so big on the graphics card is because that's what's holding me back on my current family CPU. It's very outdated, but the graphics card is super slow (ATI Rage Fury Pro). For me it seems the graphics card is the watermark for a new system.

I'm going to be a first time AMD'er!
February 9, 2005 9:51:37 PM

sku # items:
qty unit price ext price
3715396 Corsair 1GB PC 3200 2-64x64 XMS Dual-Channel DDR - #TWINX1024-3200C2PT - Lifetime Warranty 1 $159.99 $159.99
subtotal $159.99


removed because I may have broken a rule?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by supercheyenne on 02/09/05 09:16 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 9, 2005 11:57:45 PM

What??????????6 OMG... dont tell me you actually did that?

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
February 10, 2005 6:54:24 AM

Yeah, really consider the PSU.
The geforce is good for about 115 watts
CPU likes about 70
mainboard another 30
both drives another 60
and still about 30 for the rest

Would mean quite a load for a 350W psu, result will be that it runs hot all the time and the 12V rail especially could be overtaxed.
February 10, 2005 1:40:16 PM

60 watts for the drives???? maybe when they are both spinning up at boot.

this is my boomstick!
February 10, 2005 2:00:40 PM

Its not uncommon for people to buy the case they want knowning that they will have to toss the powersupply, so that isn't necessarily a mistake. Unless you liked another case better but chose this one because of the supply.

An Antec 350 watt is better than most off-brand 400+ PSU's but with your hardware I wouldn't be supprised if this system is 100% stable when you stress test it.

If thats the case you will need a new PSU, but you might as well stress test it first.

---

The LCD/Graphics card choice is a bad match..

I think 6800 GT is overkill for an LCD that maxes out at 1280x1024. At 1280x1024 there is no reason to upgrade from the 6600GT.

If you are thinking about furture proofing your video card, forget it. You are better off spending $200 now and $200 latter when new games require DX 10 support.

In my option you would have a much better experience saving $300 by getting the 6600 GT and buying the more expensive 20" 1600x1200 Dell UltraSharp 2001FP.

A great 20" LCD will still be a great 20" LCD in three years, in two years 6800 is going to be a joke.

You probably can't return the LCD. If you could I would say either return it or the 6800.

My advice is to send back the 6800 for a 6600 GT. Then upgrade to a $200-$250 card at least one month after the release of hardware supporting DX 10 hit the shelves.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Codesmith on 02/10/05 11:08 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 10, 2005 3:59:34 PM

I was thinking 2 Raptors, a DVD and the floppy will about do 60 watts but that was a guess. Don't know what Raptors use, but they get quite hot..
February 10, 2005 4:11:56 PM

i have two raptors, i dont think they get much hotter than an older 7200 rpm drive.

this is my boomstick!
February 10, 2005 4:15:12 PM

Oh ok..

Thought I had seen them benchmarking a lot warmer than 7200 RPM drives, especially the 74 gig one.
February 11, 2005 7:52:19 AM

I am drooling over those dual raptors.

If you put them in a RAID 0 config please bench them with HDTach and post the results :) 

My single 74GB Raptor doesn't seem to run any hotter than my six other drives.

I think I would get a 2nd one now if I had the room.
February 11, 2005 8:11:05 AM

As an FYI, psus are rated at 70%. That means they can only handle a continuous load of 70%, so a 350w unit can only handle a continuous load of abot 245w.
February 11, 2005 8:37:06 AM

That 70% number vaires quite a bit from manufacter to manufacturer.

Most PSU's are overrated by their manufacterer's a few are underrated.

Some manufacturers actually rate their PSU at xxx watts only if it can really handle xxx watts and remain 100% stable.

Others rate their PSU at xxx only if it won't blow a fuse xxx watts.

Actually some cheap xxx watt powersupply will catch fire without you exceeding xxx watts or the maximum amperage on any of the rails!

Getting an off brand PSU is always a gamble.
February 11, 2005 8:50:55 AM

Let me put it this way. For an electrical device to conform to North American standards, it must be able to operate at it's rated load, and must be able to operate continuously at 70% of it's rated load.
This is a requirement for nema, csa and ul/ulc.
I certainly agree that some power supplies are better than others, and that some seem to have cheated on standards. All I was trying to say was, if you are going to calculate the demand load for a psu, do not use the rated wattage, but rather 70% of rated.
February 11, 2005 1:01:14 PM

Another vote for getting a better PSU ASAP.

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February 11, 2005 1:19:32 PM

Why not PCI-E/SLI platform?
Saving your money for the secondary 6800Ultra ~~ hehe
February 11, 2005 2:30:27 PM

right now, SLI=wasted money. That's all

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
February 11, 2005 9:25:36 PM

Quote:
If you put them in a RAID 0 config please bench them with HDTach and post the results :) 



We'll do! Just give me a little longer than normal because I don't know squat about setting up 0 Raid yet.
February 11, 2005 9:28:25 PM

Quote:
Why not PCI-E/SLI platform?
Saving your money for the secondary 6800Ultra ~~ hehe


I'm not much of an "upgrader". I'm more of a "replacer". When this system gets out of date, I'll just buy a new one. - Which is why I bought the baddest graphics card I could.
February 11, 2005 9:30:24 PM

Quote:
Another vote for getting a better PSU ASAP.


OK, here's the deal. I goofed. It's actually a Antec <b>380</b> Truepower.

You guys say the word and I'll order a 450 Trupower tonight.
February 11, 2005 9:38:00 PM

The 380 should do the job but compared to a 450 there would be a bulkier load. That's why, to be safe especially thinking a couple of years ahead, people recommend a more powerful PSU.
February 12, 2005 1:45:08 AM

Ok, on that note then I may take back that last statement. Ive got a True Power running one of my systems. Its a 430, but it does a very good job. 380 is still a little on the low side, but it may do just fine. give it a shot and see how it does. Ill PM our Antec PSU GURU and see what he thinks.

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February 12, 2005 1:50:47 AM

Don't bother upgrading until you know you need more power.

If you stress test your system and it crashes, then you thing about upgrading.

When you are forced to upgrade its best to spend a little extra so you can reuse the powersupply in future upgrades.
February 12, 2005 2:41:34 AM

I've seen a true380 power a 3.06ghz p4 w/1gb ddr, 2 raid0 36gb raptors, 120gb 7200rpm maxtor, radeon 9700pro, audigy 2 platinum, dvd drive, and dvd burner. It was hurting but it did it.
Your system has more power in some areas and less in others. The above machine and yours probably have similar power consumption.
If you consider overclocking or adding anymore hardware you WILL need a bigger PSU. If you do buy a new one I would give yourself plenty of overhead and get at least a true480.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
February 12, 2005 2:50:55 AM

Hey Folken! Hows it hangin :eek:  Im thinking of trying my mineral oil in my regular CPU cooling system. I wonder if the mineral oil would have better heat transfer properties? It wouldnt take but a few minutes to drain the Water out and fill the resivior with the mineral oil. I dont see what harm it would do. What do you think?

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February 12, 2005 4:03:50 AM

That would be interesting to see what happens. If it doesn't work out so great though it will be sort of hard to get it all out, lol.
Do you have any pics up yet?

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
February 12, 2005 8:32:39 AM

Isn't the problem with oil that it gets warmer much more easily than water?
February 12, 2005 2:31:54 PM

I was thinking it also gets a lot hotter if you add the same amount of energy to it because water holds much more heat energy at the same temperature.
February 12, 2005 6:14:48 PM

I dont know for sure, but I have submerged a mobo in mineral oil and can tell you that it doesnt conduct electricity well. In other words I feel safer with the mineral oil than I do with other distilled water. I have a very radical setup for cooling my exisiting liquid, so if the mineral oil sools even close to what the liquid cools then it may be the way to go. Im going to give it a shot today. Ill let yall know what happens.

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February 12, 2005 9:52:48 PM

I wasn't talking conductivity, I was talking about heat energy.
Water can hold 41.800 joules/kg/kelvin.
Olive oil only does 16.500.
Paraffin is good for 21.300

Water is a worse heat conductor than mineral oil but the problem is that adding the same "amount" of heat to something like olive oil would result in a rise in temperature almost 3 times as high (if the heat transfer is optimal). The problem is that the oil could get very hot.
February 12, 2005 10:53:19 PM

I knew what you were saying, I just threw the conductivity in there in case some of the newer people read this. I put the mineral oil in my rig about 5 mins ago and am stressing the system now. We shall see.

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February 13, 2005 12:21:47 AM

Install an 8" X 8" aluminum plate on top of the radiator. You can cook breakfast while you surf!

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot
February 13, 2005 9:16:00 AM

Well, what happened?
February 13, 2005 8:02:56 PM

Yeah, I know, thats what I posted before, the oil would easily get twice as hot. Has Mozz replied since he's put it in?
February 13, 2005 8:35:17 PM

Im back! Wusy has me figured out. Thats scary :lol: 

Ive got mixed feelings about the mineral oil. I dont think that I have had it going long enough to say for sure, but here is the way it looks so far.

(1) This wont fly if you dont have a heavy duty pump. The oil is alot thicker than I had first thought. My pump will push it fine, but its way more pump than most people would have. I usually have the flow set donw to the lowest setting. With the mineral oil I have to open the flow all the way.

(2) The one thing that looks to be for sure is that the oil keeps the average temp slightly lower. Again, I dont know what the temp is going to look like in 12 hrs, and that is what I am really interested in seeing. The other thing that seems to be true is that the temps dont change near as much as they do with water. Im looking at some printouts of my temps"using water" recorded over many hours and days under load as well as regular use and idle. Its not uncommon to see a drop of 6 - 7C the second I stop folding. With the oil the average temp has been lower, but the rise and fall is in a much tighter window. Now this brings up a couple of thoughts. 1. If the average temp over a long period of time stays lower than it would with water then oil may be the way to go. If the average temp with the oil gets to close to the average temp with water then I would think that long term the average temps that the CPU would be exposed to would be greater with OIL. Im only guessing, but doesnt it make sense that heat can shorten the life of a CPU in a few different circumstances? To much heat at one time could be bad, but a rise in the average heat over the long haul could also be bad.

What do yall think so far? Im going to monitor this for at least 12 more hrs. That will give me more data to crunch. If I can talk my professor into letting me use his computer, I can put the data in to a program he has and get some nice graphs printed out. If anybody can think of other questions, they would be welcome. I know that I am not thinking of all the possibilities.

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February 13, 2005 8:40:12 PM

No pics up, but im getting there. I took your advise and broke out one of my old P3 550 systems. It took me a long enough, but I have finally got it back up and running. Ive been reading up on how to turn this thing into a server. Not as simple as I thought at first. Have you got any links that have some good Hot-To articles? As soon as I can get this system online and get my website going I will be ready to post some pics and video.

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February 13, 2005 8:41:34 PM

Ive got to keep you guessing :wink:

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February 13, 2005 10:24:00 PM

I still dont know what the IRC thing is all about. Ive been in there a couple of times, but I dont have a clue. It would be nice if you would fill me in on the basics. AND DONT TELL ME TO GOOGLE IT :smile:

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February 13, 2005 10:32:05 PM

I think <A HREF="http://www.clarkconnect.org/index.php" target="_new">ClarkConnect</A> is the easiest way to go. Just download the new version "Home 3.0" and put that on your old P3 :) 
You will have a fully working server and/or router in no time. The install wizard has very easy step by step instructions. All the services you want to install are put on simply by checking a box next to them :) 
You can even get free domain name and dns hosting through ClarkConnect.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you have regarding its installation and/or administration. I wanna see those pics! lol

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
February 14, 2005 1:31:56 AM

Im sure I will have plenty of questions in the next couple of days. Im about to explode over getting this up and running. Ive got so much stuff that I want to put on there. Im big on logging all my benchmarks and test so that I can chart things out later. What im thinking about doing is having all my benchmarks, test, ect on my server so that anyone that may need to compare there results with the ones that I have done will have accsess to it. It would be nice if I could have it set up so that other people could post their results as well. That may be getting into security issues though?

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February 14, 2005 1:35:46 AM

Almost forgot! I should have thought about this already, but the mineral oil is flowing alot better now that it has been running through the system for a few hours. I had to adjust the flow to slow it down. Of course you know what that means. Its obviously getting hotter. Its still beating the water as of now, but im thinking that it may continue to build up heat.

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