MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum Question

[tameanaka]

Ok, here's the deal. On MSI's website they say this board supports DDR400, when I go through the whole searching thing on Crucial's website they say it supports DDR500. So which is right? I'd obviously like to get the faster stuff, cause the price difference is barely anything, but I don't want to buy stuff that won't work. The DDR400 has 2-2-2-6 and the DDR500 has 2.5-4-4-8, now I don't know much about those numbers but I know lower is better right. I'm kind of new at this and I normally only go with what's on the manufacturer's website, so please help me out and explain your answer please. thanks

 

[tweebel]

There is no such thing as DDR-400. DDR-500 is not an official standard, it is something the manufacturer says about the capatabilitiesof their product. No mainboard with normal DDR (not DDR2 that is) officially supports anything beyond DDR 400. Of course, with overclocking, it isn't that hard to clock the DDR at 500 (250x2). However, the manufacturer of the RAM can't guarantee that all other components will work at that speed.


EDIT:

About the timings: Ask it in the memory forum. I think the DDR 500 timings will be a little faster at 500 speeds than the 400 timings at 400 speed. But you never know.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by tweebel on 02/16/05 01:11 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[tameanaka]

Another concern that I just thought of is a PSU. The board has a 24pin connector, and all the PSUs I am seeing only have a 20pin. What PSUs are the best? lil help plz. thanks

 

[Rugger]

You need to get a PSU that is ATX12V <b>v2.0</b> compatible. THG did an article recently <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20041223/index.html" target="_new">ATX12V v2.0</A>. A couple of examples are:
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-459&depa=1" target="_new">Enermax Noisetaker 420W</A>
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-934&depa=0" target="_new">Fortron Blue Storm 500W</A>

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:tongue: <font color=red>Have you read the FAQ? Searched for other posts on this topic?</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Rugger on 02/20/05 06:32 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[tameanaka]

nah, i'm not really about adapters and such.

 

[Robc1880]

most of the boards are made to run with just the 20 pin connector because the manufacturers realize that not everyone has the right PSU connector or the adapter. You should be fine running the 20 pin on it.

 

[tankbuff]

I've just taken delivery of a PC from Evesham Computers (UK) with this MOBO (MS-7125). I ordered 2Gb PC3200 (400Mhz) DDR RAM. When I booted it up for the first time the RAM was only running at 333Mhz. I queried this with Evesham as I obviously wanted the RAM running at 400Mhz as ordered. After a number of calls and (heated) discussions, Evesham stated that MSI have told them that the MS-7125 is unstable with more that 1Gb (total across all 4 slots) of single sided PC3200 (400Mhz) RAM modules fitted. The MSI Test report for the MS-7125 only gives results for up to 1Gb fitted RAM. I have asked MSI to comment on this 'problem' and asked that if it is true will a BIOS update to fix it be in the pipeline. As yet they have not responded. Until a fix is supplied I'm stuck with 2Gb of PC3200 (400Mhz) RAM running at 333Mhz.
Currently it appears that with the MS-7125 MoBo, if you want a large amount of RAM fitted, you have to run it at 333Mhz. 1Gb or less then you're ok with single sided memory modules runing at 400Mhz.
By the way, when you order your memory, make sure you specify Single sided modules. I was checking memory with Crucial, and they supply some parts numbers as Double sided as default unless you phone them up and specifically ask for Single sided modules.

 

[cubanflex68]

this is the same motherboard i would like to get.. im currently stumped because this mobo needs a 24 pin p/s. would the converters run just as good?

also i could really use some help. im buying this board because of its sli features that i plan to take advantage of in the future. i so far have bought only one bfg 6600 gt oc card. i was looking around online and i see some power supplies have a pci express connector? is this for sli? also do i need a high wattage p/s if i want to run two video cards....


thanks

 

[Rugger]

Please provide more info on what you have now, what you want to buy and your reasoning for these purchases and we'll provide some feedback.

You can run the mobo with the 20-pin connector in the 24-pin socket - should run fine. What's your current PSU?

You need a good PSU in modern systems if you want the to run stable and last longer. THG recently did an article on the new standard for PSUs <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20041223/index.html" target="_new">ATX12V v2.0</A>. Modern, high-end video cards need their own power directly from the PSU, instead of getting it from the mobo - the PCI express (PCIe)connector was probably referring to the power rail for a video card. Provide a link to what you were reading and we can take a closer look at what was specifically said.

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[cubanflex68]

right now i have a basic system. im building something new from the ground up... the only thing i have so far is the 6600 gt and i might be buying a new ide hardrive. thats about it. im planning on buying this case:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BLK-CP702-7

not expensive and comes with a 450 p/s but this mobo requires the 24 pin. i heard it will still work with the 20 pin but the soundblaster live wont work. should i just buy this case and mobo? and i was looking power supplies at xioxide.com and some had that pci express so iwas wondering what that was for.

 

[Rugger]

Only 15A on the single 12V line. I'd be more comfortable with a min 20-25A for a single rail. To save money you can go with that, but you may run into some power issues and need to get a better PSU. I highly recommend getting a good PSU up front to save time/trouble. When i'm looking for a good PSU now, I look for one that is ATX12V v2.0. The v2.0 PSUs will have two 12V rails, usually named 12V1 and 12V2, and I like each of the 12V rails to have a min of 15A. That being said, that PSU will have a 20-pin connector that can be plugged into your mobo and it should work.

Since you didn't list the type of components you wanted to buy I'll throw a few things out there and you can add/subtract to the list:
1. Case/PSU
2. Mobo (possibly MS7125)
3. CPU
4. Possibly a new HD. Why are you going with IDE instead of SATA for your HDs?

Anything else? (next time you get to build the list... :tongue: ) Is your 6600GT a PCIe card?

I'm not a few huge fan of MSI, so I will refrain from recommending that board. I'd say take a look at the <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-136-152&depa=1" target="_new">DFI Lanparty UT nF4 Ultra-D</A> or possibly the new
<A HREF="http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=243849&affiliate=shopping" target="_new">ECS KN1 Extreme</A>
if you're on a tight budget. Here is a review of the <A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ecs_kn1_extreme/" target="_new">KN1 Extreme</A>. Every once in a while ECS puts out a gem and this may be one of those boards...


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[cubanflex68]

first off thanks for the replies. well i did order that case so thats done. im aware about the power supply issue so i was thinking about getting this one when it gets in stock.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=271007

i wanted to get this board because of the good reviews and sli support.

im getting an amd 64 3000 socket 939
and 1gb 3200 corsair down the line.

i dont know too much about hard drives so i havent really though about sata. i do think its much more expensive though.

 

[tameanaka]

why single sided? I'm only going to have 1 gb of ddr400 (2 slots).

 

[Rugger]

Your welcome!

That PSU had 17A on the 12V rail and was not ATX12V v2.0 (split 12V rails). :/ I would consider it slightly better than the one in the case you're buying. Try out the one in that case. If it works, then you saved some bucks. There are at least a couple of guys on these boards that have had good luck with generic PSUs, maybe you'll be the next...

On a general purpose rant (not at you Cubby) - it annoys me that zipzoom doesn't put the specs of the PSUs they list. You have to go on a frickin' easter egg hunt to find out the real deal.

psst...the boards <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq" target="_new">FAQ</A> tells you how to enter links. :tongue:

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[cubanflex68]

yea i heard this mobo will still run with the 20 pin but something with the sound blaster will not function correctly... and i like that psu because its atx/btx. but i can just order the 24 to 20 adapter plug fom newegg.

 

[Cybercraig]

When you see an RMA link below the item featured you should RUN and HIDE! Get a good power supply and forget about the flashing lights! A bad one can take out your motherboard, memory, and video card. KaPOWMAX style! Enermax, Fortron Source, Thermaltake, Coolmax, Ultra, and Antec are names you should be looking for. You really want at LEAST 18amps on the 12v rail and the more the better. If you were running a bigger GPU you would want better than 20a on the 12v rail or a nice split rail (V1 - V2) power supply.

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot

 

[cubanflex68]

cybercraig

any suggestions?

 

[tankbuff]

This is taken from the MSI website info page for the MS-7125 M/B:
• The Maximum memory speed decreases when the following two memory combination is selected:
- Each channel is installed with two double-sided memory module
- Both DIMM1 and DIMM3 are installed with double-sided memory module

My PC came with 4 512MB Double Sided PC3200 (DDR 400) modules fitted. The trouble is they only run at 333Mhz due to the M/B config limits (Although at Dual Channel DDR).
You can run 400Mhz Double sided modules,but not in Dual Channel mode. I only found this out after many e-mails between my PC Supplier and MSI.
To further confuse issues many memory manufacturers use whatever menory chips are available when making the modules. For example Kingston sent this reply when I asked if their verified memory modules for the MS-7125 were DS or SS:
"Kingston ValueRAM parts are built with components available at time of production. Consequently the built of those parts varies. Modules may come - depending on the number of chips - as single or double sided modules. At time of ordering we cannot tell what memory will be delivered. Also there is no specific partnumber for single-sided memory kits."

Not really very helpful if you are trying to build a system with optimum performance!

 

[pauldh]

<i>"Tests with 4 DS DIMMs on an AMD Athlon 64 system are more demanding, since AMD specifies DDR333 for this combination. However, most AMD Athlon 64 motherboards combined with recent AMD processors (the memory controller is on the AMD CPU) have been able to handle 4 DIMMs at DDR400."</i>

<i>"Tests with all four DIMM slots populated on the MSI K8N Neo4/SLI board required a 2T Command Rate with 4 DS DIMMs in two dual channels. This is the pattern seen on other top-performing Socket 939 boards, and is a limitation of the AMD on-chip memory controller."</i>

Quotes from <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2358&p=11" target="_new">this Anand review</A>.

So it's an A64 thing, not specifically a MSI thing. But it still may work for you. Have you loosened the memory timings? Set the command rate to 2T. Anyway, it seems the MSI K8N Neo4/SLI can handle dual channel 4 dimms just like the other 3 SLI mobos. All of them need 2T though.




<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3400555" target="_new"> My</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8268935" target="_new">Gamer</A>

 

[TAZ]

cybercraig is spot on about the PSU, saving a few bucks on it could cost you your entire setup!! i've seen it happen (not my system fortunatly enough). a stressed PSU will not provide a stable voltage to the board and can spike if the mains provokes it --> bu-bye mobo.

i'm using the XFX 6600gt on an Asus A8N and i've the Antec Neopower 480W PSU. which incidentaly enough, has a 24 pin connector by default and a 24-20 adaptor supplied. it's a sweet unit too.

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know your limits, and never stop trying to exceed them!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There is no such thing as DDR-400.

WTF? Yes there is

______________
Read the friggin FAQ, and use the search button or I'll kick yer face in!

 

[tweebel]

I meant ddr2-400, sorry.

 

[tweebel]

I think I should be quiet...

 

[Rugger]

I've felt like like that once or twice here myself.... :lol:

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