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PCI-E and PATA

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February 24, 2005 7:24:54 PM

I've been poking through many board reviews trying to find the right board for me. My criteria:
1. One PCIE x16 slot for my new ($300)ATI Radeon X800 XL.
2. 2 or more IDE/PATA cable connections (4 channels?) for:
a. DVD-R
b. CD-R
c. new $100 250gb ata133 hard drive.
d. existing 200gb ata133 hard drive.

I'm on a budget, but I will be buying 1gb of RAM. I realize IDE drives will not be as fast, but I don't want to more than 1 SATA drive going forward. I'm thinking about a 10k 36gb Raptor for the boot drive.

Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.



Esteban

More about : pci pata

February 24, 2005 9:10:43 PM

I think you will like the DFI nForce4 board and I think a lot of other people will tell you the same.

Btw, there's absolutely no speed difference between sata and pata because no drive on earth can make even 100 MB/s. The main advantage of sata is the ease of use (no jumpers, small cables, easy RAID setup). The future will bring more.
February 25, 2005 12:51:33 AM

Is this for an Intel CPU or AMD?

Like previously mentioned SATA at this point isnt going to give you a performance boost. The other side of that is that when extreme OCing is being done sometimes the regual IDE HD's will keep the system stable farther than SATA. So your fine with the regular IDE

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February 25, 2005 2:05:42 AM

Thanks, I check the board out. I've heard conflicting reports on SATA, but all of the PCI express boards I've seen had SATA with few IDE and all I really wanted was IDE for my 2 drives.

Esteban
February 25, 2005 4:38:22 AM

If you would tell me what brand CPU you were going to use I would make a suggestion. AMD or Intel?

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a b V Motherboard
February 25, 2005 5:06:50 AM

Intel substituted one PATA connector for 2 additional SATA connectors (4 instead of 2) on their PCI-E chipsets. They did this rather than add more ports.

nVidia on the other hand added more ports on their chipsets.

Intel chipset boards with PCI-E and more than 1 PATA port use an add-in controller for the extra PATA ports. These add-in controllers often support only hard drives (not CD-ROM's, etc) and require a special driver to be loaded at boot from floppy for the windows installation process.

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February 25, 2005 5:17:46 AM

What am I missing? Does AMD not use PCIexpress or something.

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a b V Motherboard
February 25, 2005 5:24:35 AM

No, AMD doesn't use PCI-Express. nVidia makes some nice PCI-Express chipsets (the nForce4 series) for AMD processors, however.

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February 25, 2005 6:00:26 AM

Nope. I dont know whether he wants Amd or Intel either. My first thought was hey the only peops who know about the 800xl are gamers, so Amd. Then I looked at all that drive space, now I'm thinking it may be for video encoding.
So
For s939- DFI
For s775 ask Mozz.
For any other socket, ? Does any other socket support pci-exp graphics?
February 25, 2005 11:26:34 AM

Probably AMD, but I could be convinced to get an Intel processor.

Esteban
February 25, 2005 12:54:49 PM

unless you can get a MOBO with 4 IDE channels instead of just the standard two, you're going to have problems with tranfer between the devices sharing each channel in that it will be incredibly slow. IDE doesn't support data tranfer in both directions at the one time, the info has to be loaded to the RAM and them back out to the second device on the channel.
on the other hand due to the expanse of RAM in most systems these days and the speed it runs at, maybe this is no longer as big of a problem as it used to be. i haven't tried putting two devices on one IDE in years but i know from experience that it used to send tranfer rates to hell.

if it is still an issue, and i'm sure there's someone who'll tell you if this applies anymore, what you can do it get IDE to SATA converters for the hard drives and leave the optical drives on the IDE channels.
this probably isn't the cheapest converter around but it should give you an idea what you're looking for:

http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/serial-ata-ide-converter...

otherwise, you can get a PCI IDE RAID card and set the extra connectors up as individual HD channels (i've one comp running this config at the moment [2GB P4, 512MB PC2700, 80GB HD, DVD-RW, DVD/CD-RW])

or you could try and track down a MOBO with onboard IDE RAID, (i've 2 machines set up that way [AMD athlon 2200+, 512MB PC2700, 60GB HD, DVD/CD-RW, CD-ROM] the MOBO i used in both is the SOYO KT333 Dragon Platinum) although i very much doubt there are any new MOBO's with that config.

________________________________________________________
know your limits, and never stop trying to exceed them!
February 25, 2005 2:25:29 PM

Quote:
i haven't tried putting two devices on one IDE in years but i know from experience that it used to send tranfer rates to hell.

That's not entirely correct. The whole channel will basically run at the speed of the slowest item on the cable, so 2 HDDs on one channel, and 2 optical drives on the other (a pretty common setup really) will be OK, but sticking a HD and an optical drive (or other slow IDE device) on the same channel is a no-no. I once tried connecting an LS120 drive to the same cable as my hard disk with the result that my HDD became horribly slow. (windows went instantly from booting in around 1 minute to taking more than 5).

I personally prefer only having one device per channel, but if you have only 2 IDE channels and three or four devices, then sharing a channel between, say, a CD-ROM and a DVD-writer isn't the end of the world, or between 2 hard disks even (though if one is old and slow it may make the other one's performance suffer quite noticeably).

---
A64 3200+ Winchester @ 258x10=2580Mhz, ~1.52 Vcore
1Gb RAM, running at various strange speeds... :lol: 
Voltmodded Sapphire 9800Pro @ 450/350 w/ modded VGA silencer 3.
February 25, 2005 7:16:44 PM

Ok, DFI's LanParty it is. Thanks for everyone's help!

Esteban
February 25, 2005 7:52:47 PM

IM not going to actively try to talk you into an Intel because of some of the heat issues that they have had. Having said that, I am an Intel owner and very pleased with my setup's. The heat issue can be easily taken care of, however you have to understand that it involves some extra expense in the area of cooling. Aprox. $150.00 - $200.00 if you are going to OC the system and only around $60.00 if you will run it at stock settings.

You seem to be in a very similiar situation that I was and still currently am in. I have 6 of the HD's with the Older interface and 1 SATA HD. I dont know enough about AMD to comment on the MOBO's that are made for them but there are a number of MOBOs made for the Intel line that will fit your needs. I am currently using the ASUS P5AD2-E-Premium which is the top of the line for the Intel CPU's. It will cost you around $230.00 which is not cheap but the extra's and the software that go with it are spectacular. If your going to OC then it cant be beat. It supports up to 6 regular IDE devices and 8 SATA. It does require that you use DDR2 which is more expensive than Regular DDR and will only show a performance increase over DDR if you buy the latest DDR2 that are rated at the highest speeds.

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
February 25, 2005 8:07:49 PM

If you're going AMD DFI's Lanparty UT nf4 Ultra-D is pretty damn awesome :smile:

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February 28, 2005 9:10:38 AM

aha, i stand corrected. nice one dude.

________________________________________________________
know your limits, and never stop trying to exceed them!
February 28, 2005 10:24:29 AM

Quote:
The whole channel will basically run at the speed of the slowest item on the cable, so 2 HDDs on one channel, and 2 optical drives on the other (a pretty common setup really) will be OK, but sticking a HD and an optical drive (or other slow IDE device) on the same channel is a no-no.


How can you explain that I had one HDD that has a cdrom as a slave and wasn't slowed down by it? If you dont install chipset drivers, it may happen, but I never suffered from a slow down cause by a slower device on the cable.

Maybe, whenn there were not such thing as ATA100, but only ATA66, then the bandwidth was not enough to keep up with transfer from both device at same time. As for slow booting, I dont know. Maybe a glitch with the CDROM ...

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