AMD 64 Motherboard Help me out

[darkblade]

Hi I am a noob when it comes to understanding stuff.

Ok I want the best Motherboard on the market that’s supports AMD 64 ATX format Socket 754 and it’s an AGP8x NOT PCI express.

I want IDE connectors coz I don’t really understand what is this Serial ATA-150, I already have 2 IDE Hard Drives.

My favourite brand is ASUS, and I would like to keep that way, but I am open for suggestions.

I have notice this board Asus K8V-X Socket-754 VIA K8T800 ATX, Any good?

On the processor I was thinking on the AMD (Newcastle) Athlon 64bit 3000+ 754pin, any good??

Thank you for your time.

 

[Rugger]

<A HREF="http://www.pimpedoutcases.net/article.php?57.1" target="_new">Here</A> is an article on SATA.

Some ?'s for you:
1. Are you going to OC this computer?
2. What parts from your current rig are you going to use in the new setup?
3. What is your budget?
4. Why are you not considering s939? I know the pros/cons of each, but why are YOU going s754? There are s939 boards with AGP if that is the only reason...

Answers to your questions:
1. The best chipset for the s754 AMD is the nVidia nForce3 250GB. The Asus boards with this chipset are the <A HREF="http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=K8N&langs=09" target="_new">K8N</A> or the <A HREF="http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=K8N-E Deluxe&langs=09" target="_new">K8N-E Deluxe</A>
2. I would personally go with the <A HREF="http://www.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=2840&CATEGORY_TYPE=MB&SITE=NA" target="_new">DFI Lnparty nF3 UT 250GB</A>. Behind the DFI I would go with the <A HREF="http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=1&model=235" target="_new">Abit NF8</A>.
3. If you got s754 then definitely get an A64 witht the Newcastle core.

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[Crashman]

There are lots of boards for you out there, here are my basic recommendations:
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-123-219&depa=0" target="_new">Epox</A>
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-190&depa=0" target="_new">Abit</A>
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-136-147&depa=0" target="_new">DFI</A>
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-498&depa=0" target="_new">Asus</A>

You'll notice all of them have something in common, the nForce3 250GB chipset: The best Socket 754 chipset supporting AGP8x.

It supports both 40-pin IDE connectors and SATA. Both. Ignore the connectors you don't use.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[endyen]

I like the Abit, and the Asus boards that Crashman recommends.
If you want to spend a little less, they bothe have reasonable little brothers, that lack a few features.

 

[darkblade]

First of all many thanks for the answers and i will try to answer the best to my knowledge.

1. Q. Are you going to OC this computer?
A. No

2. Q. What parts from your current rig are you going to use in the new setup?
A. 2xIDE Hd and my ATI Radeon 9800pro, don’t need more 4 now this Graphics card is good enough.

3. Q. What is your budget?
A. I’m in the UK not in the USA but I would say low budget around $500. that’s for a board and CPU 64bit

4. Q. Why are you not considering s939? I know the pros/cons of each, but why are YOU going s754? There are s939 boards with AGP if that is the only reason...

A. the prices are a big different, and I was reading that you don’t notice much different between both, if you want to let me know the pros/cons I would appreciate.

(Here is an article on SATA.)

Thanks I will read it.



To Crashman

Thanks for your time I will look it to them.

What’s the deal with this nForce3 250GB chipset, anything to do with Graphics card? nForce3 is this a - or a +?




To endyen

Thanks for your opinion I will look at them.

Keep your opinions coming, plus do you guys know of good sites in the UK, I only know dabs and ebuyer and they look ok. Looks like the best sites are from the US.

Later all...

 

[Rugger]

Is that $500USD or pounds?

The s939 will allow future upgrades to dual core CPUs with a BIOS update - so future upgradeability is one advantage with the s939. s939 also supports dual channel RAM and the is clock for clock faster than the s754. Disadvantage to s939 is that they are clocked 200Mhz slower than their s754 counterpart. A s754 3000+ is 2Ghz, while a s939 3000+ is 1.8Ghz - dual channel does not make up for the 200Mhz difference so a similarly rated s754 will be as fast or faster than the s939 counterpart. With the advent of nF4 4X, s754 can now have PCIe graphics cards (the future bus standard for vid cards). One of the s754 advantaes used to be price, but s939 prices have dropped here in the states and a s939 system can be gotten for just a little more than a s754. There are some threads in this forum from a month or two ago - do a search for some more info on s939 vs s754.

The nF3 250GB chipset is the best/most mature s754 chipset and is definitely a +. With the new nF4 4X chipset on the streets, that may change. I'd like to see some reviews/comparisons, but I don't think there will be huge difference in performance - just some of the features. I haven't researched the 4X, but I'm interested in seeing if it supports dual channel RAM.

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[darkblade]

Many thanks for your quick reply

$500 USD around £250pounds

Thanks for the explanation, bit lost will all that info but I will crack it. But so far it was the easiest to understand

I was looking at the Asus K8N-E Deluxe Socket-754 nForce3 and I must say I done some research and only good things have been said about this board, so I may get it for £63.00, plus if I am correct I can still use my IDE hard drives and later upgrade for SATA ATA.

And I am looking at the AMD (Newcastle) Athlon 64bit 3000+ 754pin 512kb L2 Cache Retail Boxed Processor with Heatsink and Fan Included and 3 Year Warranty £94.00, is this a good processor, or a lower is better, coz sometimes i read that the 2800+ is as good as the 3000+. Socket A processor am talking, not the 64bit.

maybe a dig a bit more money and I try to buy the, Corsair 1024MB (2 x 512MB Matched Pair), DDR400 / PC3200, non-ECC, Unbuffered, CL3, Memory Modules With Lifetime Warranty, £74.00, any good for low budget????

Regarding the s754 and the s939, I may stick with the s754, I am not that crazy to upgrade ever time so this build will last me a couple of years+. But I will read more into to this coz as far I have seen the s754 can go up 3700+ and that’s enough for me.


Keep the opinions coming what should I change if anything.

Many Thanks

 

[Rugger]

The 3000+ is a good CPU. I would only go with the 2800+ if I was very $ limited. You will be able to add SATA HDDs later if you want. Be conscious of the number of IDE items you have. There are only 2 IDE connectors and optimal config is having each drive as master on its own cable. If you don't upgrade that often then the s754 will fit your needs. Another thing you need to be aware of is that AMD will <i>not</i> be making anymore s754 A64 CPUs. s754 will become the bargain socket (Sempron) and the number of s754, A64 CPUs will only go down - so the price will stabilize and then go up. You may not be able to find an A64, s754 3700+ in a couple of years. The Mushkin Dual pack has gotten really inexpensive over here lately - $85 for 1GB(2X512), PC3200. It has tighter timings and also has a lifetime warranty. The Corsair value pack is good value memory, but you typically pay more for what you get from Corsair.

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[pat]

The 754 2800+ has the same speed in MHz (1.8GHz)than the 939 3000+. The only difference is that the 3000+ is dual channel. Dual channel give a boost on average of 6% over single channel. So, if you are money limited, the 2800+ is not a weak CPU. I would say that my 939 cpu is a weak one compared to the 3000+ socket 754. Just like the 3000+ s754 has the same speed in MHz (2.0) than the 3200+ s939. So, the 6% advantage that dual channel has over single is lost to the 10% drop in MHz.

Socket 754 will be the future plateform for Sempron CPU. So, you'll be able to find other CPU in the future, I guess. Going single channel, mean cheaper memory, as one stick is needed opposed as 2 for dual channel. See, the 939 3000+, with one memory stick will be as fast as the 2800+... Just like Intel has pentium and celeron, AMD will have Athlon and Sempron.. Now, they have Athlon XP s462, sempron s462, sempron s754, athlon 754 and athlon 939. They want to clean their line and that why the 754 wont be called athlon anymore.

As for board for S754, I have good succes with the Soltek k8an2e-gr with 2800+ and 3000+ CPUs. It is based on the nforce3 250 gb. So you may add it to your list if it is available in your area.

Since you seem on a budget, it is clear that socket 754 will offer you more for your money. And since you'll keep it for 2-3 or more years, new technology will be available at upgrade time that you probably will considering updating the motherboard and cpu too. Even if you upgrade only the cpu later, you wont see much of improvement because there is more severe bottleneck in a system than the cpu. The HDD is the worst for overall system speed. Apps and games are becoming better and bigger, so loading time increase as well as data. Some years ago, 1-2 megapixels digital camera were mainstream. now, we are talking about 4-5 megapixels. That makes your picture bigger.

A good HDD will improve overall speed for loading and working with data. That is what I will consider for your next component to upgrade.

To put it simple, SATA is the interface between the drive and the controller. See, the drive is still an IDE and the controller is still an IDE controller. SATA improve by moving data in a serial pattern instead of a parallele pattern.

So, SATA is the interface. a SATA HDD is an IDE HDD that use a SATA interface. Same for a SATA controller. It is an IDE controller that use a SATA interface. Serial need smaller wire and d is not subject to crosstalk between wires as Parallele ATA(PATA) That why you see 40 wires ribbon for ata 66 and less IDE drives and 80 wires for ATA100 and more IDE drives. An additionnal wire is place between each data wire to prevent data wires to be one next to the other. So, serial will be able to go faster when drive technology will be up to the interface.

I dont know what kind of video card you have, but that is much more important in game to have a fast video card than a fast CPU. Even the 2800+ will be able to keep up with fast AGP video card. So, you could consider upgrading that too, when you'll feel the need.







<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pat on 04/11/05 12:46 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[darkblade]

Thanks guys for the good advise.

i am still a bit rocking with the whole Sata talk but i get there.

i think i have read someplace that you need to load some drivers for windows to work with sata HD is this true? or was this RAID? are they the same? i cant find the post anymore about that comment.

I have a ATI Radeon 9800pro, whats a good video card not teh latest but better than ATI Radeon 9800pro, needs to be an ATI and AGP not PCI Express.

Thanks

 

[pat]

the 9800 is still a nice card, and should be for the couple next years. What is your HDD?

SATA is no more than a way to connect the drive to the motherboard.. And since PATA was limiting the upgrade for speed, then SATA was invented to allow faster transfer.

See it as 8 small pipes that take the water to one tank and bring it to another for the old ATA. the pump cannot put anymore pressure to the water, so it cannot move the water faster than it move now. But the water need to go faster as more water is needed. So they put 1 new pipe that can take higher pressure and move water faster betweent the tank. But we still have to wait for the manufacturer to come out with better pump to fully utilize the newer pipe..

Let say that SATA vs PATA is like the old parallele port for printer vs the new USB port. The computer is still a computer, and the printer is still a printer. What change is only the way that data are exchanged between them.

Better... take an highway, a 8 lanes one, that is parallele. speed is limited because of traffic and car having to move one beside the other. when one hit another, it is data corruption. The extra wires between the wire that make for the difference between ATA66 and ATA100/133 cable arle like concrete bumper between lane. to prevent cars from going from lane to lane. Now take the TGV (high speed train in europe, this is SATA. It can go as fast as 400Km/h because there is only one lane to control.

The fact is you have to move from point a (let say, your house) to point b (let say, your job). you can do it by either the highway or the train. You still have the same house and still have the same job. What change is only the way you travel between them. The same for sata drive. Still the same controller, still the same drive..they only differ by the way they communicate between them. by SATA interface ou PATA interface.

If you have a slow and small capacity HDD, I would get a new one way before your 9800...

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[darkblade]

hi thanks for the last post it was clear to me.

Sorry for starting to be a pest, but i need advise on the SATA hard drive then.

i will get the Asus K8N-E Deluxe board.

what of this SATA hard drivers is the best. check the link thanks

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=6729136794&action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3BhZ2U=&subcat_uid=1090

Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 160GB Serial ATA150 7200rpm 8mb Cache - OEM

Western Digital 160GB Serial ATA150 7200rpm 8mb Cache- OEM

Hitachi 13G0254 Deskstar 160GB 7200rpm SATA150 8MB Cache - OEM

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=6729136794&action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3BhZ2U=&subcat_uid=1090

Will this SATA drivers work with Asus K8N-E Deluxe board? i know the board supports SATA with any HD work? do you have to do anything different to install windows XP with this SATA or is just like a normal IDE??

this is a UK based site, coz i live in the UK if you guys know of a better or cheaper let me know, coz this is the only cheap place i can find.

Many Thanks

 

[Rugger]

I'd personally go with a Seagate Barracuda - quiet, fast and have a 5yr warranty. It less than 4 pounds more than the Diamondmax 9 or WD. These drives will definitely work with the K8N. Install is just like normal IDE. Easier cable management because you don't have to deal with the bulky, flat PATA cables.

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[darkblade]

sorry Rugger you lost me there.

what Seagate Barracuda are you talking in the link?

only one i found was Seagate ST3160827AS 160GB 7200rpm SATA 8MB Cache - OEM, Service & Support Details Limited warranty - 3 years. sorry to be a noob on this.

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=6729994365&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X3NwZWNpZmljYXRpb25z&product_uid=78426

is this the one you are talking about?

if not when buying a Sata drive what should i look? i always look at 7200rpm SATA 8MB Cache information and go from there.


ManyThanks

 

[endyen]

A 7200 rpm ide drive is as fast as a 7200 rpm sata drive. If your old drives are 7200 rpm, dont waste the money on sata.

 

[Rugger]

The Barracuda was the <A HREF="http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=6730178128&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X3NwZWNpZmljYXRpb25z&product_uid=74108" target="_new">200GB drive</A>. Messed up the prices - it was 12 pounds more than the other drives. The extra space, reliability, quiet and 5 year warranty would be worth the 12 pounds in my book.

Researching parts isn't just about having the best specs. It's also about dealing with a company that you can trust, who makes quality products and will support you after the purchase. Companies like Abit who stepped forward to really take care of their customers after their issues with bad capacitors on motherboards. Bad capacitors that nearly every other mfr had incidents with but not all of whom went above and beyond to take care of their customers. Seagate is the only HDD mfr that I know who is offering a 5yr warranty on their HDD. Everyone else went from the industry norm of 2-3 years DOWN to one year warranties. Seagate makes great drives and puts their money where their mouth is by backing them with a 5yr warranty.
*steps down from rant podium*

Deal with reputable companies. Larger cache is better, lower seek time is better, higher RPM is better. One thing that you don't see in the product specs is the noise levels - Barracuda are some of the most quiet drives on the market right now as well as giving top performance.

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[Rugger]

Doesn't the 8MB cache in modern drives make a noticeable difference in performance over the older 2MB cache drives?

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[darkblade]

Hi back again one more question

Would I be able to run a SATA and an IDE HD on the same PC?

SATA master, IDE slave or vice versa

I was reading that some people have problems installing Win XP PRO with a SATA because the Motherboard doest recognize the hard drive (like it doest with an IDE) installed is this true? If it is what’s the best way to go about it and running everything smooth?

 

[pat]

SATA and PATA are 2 different thing. There is no master/slave config for SATA, as there is only one drive by cable.

So, no, you shouldnt have any problem. I did that config on many systems without a glitch.

Think about it? How come somebody would install the OS with a normal CDROM , master or slave on an IDE channel, on a SATA HDD is SATA and IDE wouldnt play nice??? What you may have to do is to set the boot device to SATA disk after that in BIOS and it is all in your motherboard's manual.

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>

 

[darkblade]

Thanks for the answer

 

[Bosse]

RE : Hi I am a noob when it comes to understanding stuff.

So ur a retard ?

A64 3000+ @ 2340mhz(9x260) - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Crucial BallistiX 2x512 PC4000 2.5 3 3 11- Asus 6800GT @ 400/1100 - 2x WD Raptor 36gb 10000rpm RAID 0 - Hiper 525w.