Doom 3 isn't fun

Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?

The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All
I do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.

This is why Half-life 1 was revolutionary - it had so many new ideas and
puzzles that you genuinely needed to solve.

Do I sound like I'll benefit more from Half-Life 2? Or am I right -
that graphics doth not a game make?

Doom 3's engine is clearly awesome. The Hell level is a superb example
of what the engine can do. I'd like to see what other game programmers
are going to do with this engine.
27 answers Last reply
More about doom
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    > The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    > again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    > look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All
    > I do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.

    This has turned me off buying the game until it comes way down in price.
    Even in the demo, I thought the "slow zombie in front, fast zombie coming up
    from behind" gag was done to death. I would still like to play through it at
    some point, as I enjoy that type of steamy, underlit environment.

    I'll wait until it comes way down in price and I've got a couple upgrades
    done.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:41af33dc$0$21872$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...

    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?

    Nope. It was a tech demo in search of a storyline/set pieces.
    I got bored only about a third of the way through. Walk, have
    something jump out behind you, shoot. Rinse, lather repeat.

    Note: Being made to jump isn't scary. There's a busker in Dublin
    whose trick is to stand, painted orange, motionless in the
    street on a wooden box. Every so often, he'll stamp on the box,
    managing to make everyone jump (he has quite a knack for it).
    Yes, he makes you jump, but noone would try to argue
    he's scary.

    ID software, especially these days, seems to be all about
    Carmack technological wizardry with none of the same
    thought in plot, set-pieces, character and design; the Lucasfilm
    of gaming.

    P.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:41af33dc$0$21872$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    > The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    > again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    > look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All I
    > do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.

    But that's what the original Doom games were about, and is precisely what
    made them classics. Tonnes of mindless blasting of repeated enemies, often
    in large numbers. I loved Serious Sam for exactly the same reason. It had
    no story to speak of to bog it down, and was just a really good gun fest
    from start to finish. Lots of twitchy trigger finger blowing up of things.
    Completely over the top. It was great.

    I really liked the Doom 3 demo, for the same reason. All the good stuff
    that a FPS should have, in a dark setting where it's hard to see the
    monsters until they're right on top of you. Great stuff. I'm gonna buy the
    full game when I go and do my Christmas shopping.

    That's what shooters are all about. Blowing stuff up. Story, cinematics
    and endless strategizing just get in the way in this type of game. The more
    explosions and gruesome monster deaths, the better.
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    Richard Cavell wrote:
    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >


    Nope, you're in the majority.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    Too bad that the first person shooter can't come to harmony with the
    adventure side-scroller. What a world it would be.


    --
    Noob - "do you hack?"
    Justin - "i hack like a maniac!"
    Noob - "do you have digital cable?"
    Justin - "i have *ALL* the cables!"
    "Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:41af33dc$0$21872$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    > The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    > again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    > look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All I
    > do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.
    >
    > This is why Half-life 1 was revolutionary - it had so many new ideas and
    > puzzles that you genuinely needed to solve.
    >
    > Do I sound like I'll benefit more from Half-Life 2? Or am I right - that
    > graphics doth not a game make?
    >
    > Doom 3's engine is clearly awesome. The Hell level is a superb example of
    > what the engine can do. I'd like to see what other game programmers are
    > going to do with this engine.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    (Delurk.)

    Marshall wrote:
    >> minutes at a time. While on the topic, Halo 2.. another railroad track
    >> game.. like a pipe, or a tunnel maybe.. you run through it shooting
    >> everything that moves.
    >>
    >> Is that the best game designers can come up with these days?
    >
    >They need to all be put in solitary confinement for a few weeks with a PC
    >and a copy of Deus Ex (the original, not <puke> the sequel), then ordered
    >to use that overall style as the template to start with and build upon, for
    >some future games. Maybe then.... <dreams on>

    Nah, they'd probably just make a "Shoot the Illuminati" railroad ride.

    It's a shame when the most wide-open single-player gameplay is found in
    team-based DM with bots. At least there, you have more freedom of choice. :\

    (Relurk.)

    Len

    --
    Pointless sig file.
    http://www.archonrealm.com | http://archonrealm.tripod.com
    Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
    End pointless sig file.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    Richard Cavell wrote:
    >Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?

    Nah. I was suspicious of it, since IMHO id's been leaking single-player
    talent for years, but I played it and tried to like it. Didn't like it.

    I know people who delcared Quake 3 - and felt vindicated by Doom 3 - nothing
    but an engine tech demo for other companies with enough of a "game" stapled on
    to get the public to buy.

    Len

    --
    Pointless sig file.
    http://www.archonrealm.com | http://archonrealm.tripod.com
    Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
    End pointless sig file.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    Richard Cavell wrote:
    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    > The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    > again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    > look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All
    > I do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.
    >
    > This is why Half-life 1 was revolutionary - it had so many new ideas and
    > puzzles that you genuinely needed to solve.
    >
    > Do I sound like I'll benefit more from Half-Life 2? Or am I right -
    > that graphics doth not a game make?
    >
    > Doom 3's engine is clearly awesome. The Hell level is a superb example
    > of what the engine can do. I'd like to see what other game programmers
    > are going to do with this engine.

    I agree with most of what you've said. I didn't buy Doom 3 when it
    came out, because I had a strong feeling that's what it would be like.
    Alot of people said "It'll be great! just like DOOM all over again.." ..
    then I remembered how much i the mindless shoot/run from Doom 1 and 2,
    and Quake 1 and 2 bored me to death, even when those games were new.

    I'm still waiting to see what the modding community can bring out. The
    best part of Quake and Quake 2 were the awesome ingenious mods that
    people came up with.. Quake Team Fortress and Q2CTF were among my
    favourite MP games in their day :-)


    --
    Ben Cottrell AKA Bench

    Today's episode is brought to you by the word "patience", the letter
    "lambda", and the number two ;-)
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    if you don't like the demo then don't buy the game.
    I'm doing an episode for D3, (will be feb) - did a few levels for D2
    and got good feedback from various countries and I'm one of those
    who still has the time and inclination of making more of the vanilla
    in the original games. Some excellent 3rd party stuff has been done already,
    and I guess the stock of this is only going to grow.... so go for HL2 - if
    your'e not a doom freak now, you probably won't become one...

    "Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:41af33dc$0$21872$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    > The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    > again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    > look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All
    > I do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.
    >
    > This is why Half-life 1 was revolutionary - it had so many new ideas and
    > puzzles that you genuinely needed to solve.
    >
    > Do I sound like I'll benefit more from Half-Life 2? Or am I right -
    > that graphics doth not a game make?
    >
    > Doom 3's engine is clearly awesome. The Hell level is a superb example
    > of what the engine can do. I'd like to see what other game programmers
    > are going to do with this engine.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    Paul Fedorenko wrote:

    >> The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    >> again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    >> look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All I
    >> do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    >> Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.
    >
    >But that's what the original Doom games were about, and is precisely what
    >made them classics. Tonnes of mindless blasting of repeated enemies, often
    >in large numbers.

    Yeah, but that wasn't all. Even in Doom 1 E1M1, you could charge into combat
    merrily, pick off a few of the troopers from across the central courtyard
    before attacking the rest, etc.

    If health was low, you might expend more ammo on long-range shots. If ammo was
    low, you might go in close-quarters to make more shots count, or you might get
    those mindless hordes to fight amongst themselves. (Was there even
    infighting in D3? I don't remember seeing much of it.) Or you might try to
    sneak up on the monsters facing door A by using a more circuitous path to get
    behind them. Certainly not up to Deus Ex levels of choice, of course, but
    complex enough that it suited multiple play styles. Or multiple moods - if I'm
    in a bad mood and impatient, I do the kill-kill-kill thing. If not, I stay
    back and look for conveniently-placed barrels to blow up and such.

    There was mindless blasting, but you could also vary your methods a bit if
    you didn't want to just run-and-gun.

    Len

    --
    Pointless sig file.
    http://www.archonrealm.com | http://archonrealm.tripod.com
    Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
    End pointless sig file.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Paul Moloney" <paul_moloney@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<318t7eF38euo2U2@individual.net>...
    > Note: Being made to jump isn't scary. There's a busker in Dublin
    > whose trick is to stand, painted orange, motionless in the
    > street on a wooden box. Every so often, he'll stamp on the box,
    > managing to make everyone jump (he has quite a knack for it).
    > Yes, he makes you jump, but noone would try to argue
    > he's scary.
    >
    > P.

    Well, that must be down at Temple Bar and you can scare the sh** out of all
    the tourists there much better with the pint prices listed...
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:22:11 GMT, I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len Pitre)
    wrote:

    >Richard Cavell wrote:
    >>Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    >Nah. I was suspicious of it, since IMHO id's been leaking single-player
    >talent for years, but I played it and tried to like it. Didn't like it.

    Actually, ID didn't really have the single-player talent to begin with -
    their success would be with the technology and engine. The same applies to
    Epic's Unreal Engine (with the exception that the single player seems to be
    a bit better for some people - for example, the monsters could pathfind
    their way across a map without problem.)

    >I know people who delcared Quake 3 - and felt vindicated by Doom 3 - nothing
    >but an engine tech demo for other companies with enough of a "game" stapled on
    >to get the public to buy.

    Quake 3 appeared to be barely a game because it was fairly a simplistic DM
    ladder. There have been many mods to add new game types but the basic
    ladder is the main feeling for the first impression. Deathmatch bots may
    have helped things, but it was perhaps a little to late after all the bots
    that appeared for Quake I and II (among other games.)

    Doom 3 was basically a remake of an old game, which is naturally a great
    way to produce comments about being a game tacked on to a new engine. (In
    a way, Quake 1 could be described the same way since monsters haven't
    changed since Doom. Same with Quake 2 - graphics improved, but the enemies
    still seem to be scripted in the same way as their predecessors. )
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    Marshall <marshall@nospam.com> wrote in
    news:%nLrd.10467$NU3.4446@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

    > They need to all be put in solitary confinement for a few weeks with a PC
    > and a copy of Deus Ex (the original, not <puke> the sequel), then ordered
    > to use that overall style as the template to start with and build upon, for
    > some future games. Maybe then.... <dreams on>
    > -Marshall

    Yeah no doubt, Deus Ex really got ruined in the sequel. The original game was
    so much freaking fun, I was hanging on the edge of my seat for DE2 to come
    out and man, they just ruined the gameplay in that follow up. That was a real
    shame. :(

    --
    email: tinykitty at newsguy dot com
    ~Ohmster
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 02:25:17 +1100, Richard Cavell
    <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote:

    >Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    >The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    >again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    >look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All
    >I do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.
    >
    >This is why Half-life 1 was revolutionary - it had so many new ideas and
    >puzzles that you genuinely needed to solve.
    >
    >Do I sound like I'll benefit more from Half-Life 2? Or am I right -
    >that graphics doth not a game make?
    >
    >Doom 3's engine is clearly awesome. The Hell level is a superb example
    >of what the engine can do. I'd like to see what other game programmers
    >are going to do with this engine.

    The Doom 3 maps are small and enclosed so there's not much any other
    developer is going to be able to do with it for 3 or 4 years.

    The Doom 3 engine is too far ahead of its time.
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    Have to agree, one level the same as the next, same few bad guys to shoot
    same old formula. I've given up on it now, I won't play through.

    Dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull, dull.

    --
    Martin

    My address is spam trapped...
    ....please reply to the group - thanks.

    "Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:41af33dc$0$21872$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    > The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    > again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    > look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All
    > I do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.
    >
    > This is why Half-life 1 was revolutionary - it had so many new ideas and
    > puzzles that you genuinely needed to solve.
    >
    > Do I sound like I'll benefit more from Half-Life 2? Or am I right -
    > that graphics doth not a game make?
    >
    > Doom 3's engine is clearly awesome. The Hell level is a superb example
    > of what the engine can do. I'd like to see what other game programmers
    > are going to do with this engine.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    On 3/12/04 2:44 PM, Ohmster wrote:

    > Yeah no doubt, Deus Ex really got ruined in the sequel. The original game was
    > so much freaking fun, I was hanging on the edge of my seat for DE2 to come
    > out and man, they just ruined the gameplay in that follow up. That was a real
    > shame. :(

    I'm not normally one for 'me too's, but this had to be said.

    They fixed what wasn't broken.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "Paul Moloney" <paul_moloney@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:318t7eF38euo2U2@individual.net...
    > "Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
    > news:41af33dc$0$21872$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
    >
    > Note: Being made to jump isn't scary. There's a busker in Dublin
    > whose trick is to stand, painted orange, motionless in the
    > street on a wooden box. Every so often, he'll stamp on the box,
    > managing to make everyone jump (he has quite a knack for it).
    > Yes, he makes you jump, but noone would try to argue
    > he's scary.

    In San Francisco, at Pier 39, there is the "bush man". He crouches on
    the sidewalk, behind a couple of branches that he holds up in a place
    where there is no other vegetation. He is quite obvious, as he crouches
    by the sidewalk, usually on a bridge or somewhere particularly devoid of
    trees. How can I explain how obvious he is?!! People walk around him
    wondering what his problem is. But he occasionally jumps at someone and
    shouts, "Boo!" and scares them. Everyone laughs. Some sue. Fun is had by
    all.

    http://www.anvari.org/photos/200305c/Bush_Man_4.html

    --
    ArWeScarySpiceOrCaptainObvious
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 13:08:53 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
    wrote:

    >"Paul Moloney" <paul_moloney@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:318t7eF38euo2U2@individual.net...
    >> "Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:41af33dc$0$21872$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
    >>
    >> Note: Being made to jump isn't scary. There's a busker in Dublin
    >> whose trick is to stand, painted orange, motionless in the
    >> street on a wooden box. Every so often, he'll stamp on the box,
    >> managing to make everyone jump (he has quite a knack for it).
    >> Yes, he makes you jump, but noone would try to argue
    >> he's scary.
    >
    >In San Francisco, at Pier 39, there is the "bush man". He crouches on
    >the sidewalk, behind a couple of branches that he holds up in a place
    >where there is no other vegetation. He is quite obvious, as he crouches
    >by the sidewalk, usually on a bridge or somewhere particularly devoid of
    >trees. How can I explain how obvious he is?!! People walk around him
    >wondering what his problem is. But he occasionally jumps at someone and
    >shouts, "Boo!" and scares them. Everyone laughs. Some sue. Fun is had by
    >all.
    >
    >http://www.anvari.org/photos/200305c/Bush_Man_4.html

    Wonder how long it will be before someone busts a cap into his
    annoying ass?
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    Raymond Martineau wrote:

    >Doom 3 was basically a remake of an old game, which is naturally a great
    >way to produce comments about being a game tacked on to a new engine. (In
    >a way, Quake 1 could be described the same way since monsters haven't
    >changed since Doom. Same with Quake 2 - graphics improved, but the enemies
    >still seem to be scripted in the same way as their predecessors. )

    True enough. Despite assertions from other people that they're light-years
    smarter, I could still fake out the melee-only monsters in Doom 3 the EXACT
    same way I could fake out the fiends(?) in Quake 1.

    Len

    --
    Pointless sig file.
    http://www.archonrealm.com | http://archonrealm.tripod.com
    Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
    End pointless sig file.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    Len Pitre wrote:

    > True enough. Despite assertions from other people that they're light-years
    > smarter, I could still fake out the melee-only monsters in Doom 3 the EXACT
    > same way I could fake out the fiends(?) in Quake 1.
    >

    What way could they not be faked out?

    If somebody swung at you, you'd naturally back away and they would be
    carried by *momentum* into their swing (hence action-movie scenes where
    people duck a blow and the opposition's fist cruises over their head etc.)

    If the monsters stopped mid-swing, it would probably look and feel bad
    (personal opinion alert)

    I agree, the melee monsters are easy to fake out, but I think that's the
    general direction the devs had in mind.

    --
    Noob - "do you hack?"
    Justin - "i hack like a maniac!"
    Noob - "do you have digital cable?"
    Justin - "i have *ALL* the cables!"
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:00:14 -0500, SnoopJeDi
    <snoopjediHOLDTHESPAM@comcast.net> wrote:

    >Len Pitre wrote:
    >
    >> True enough. Despite assertions from other people that they're light-years
    >> smarter, I could still fake out the melee-only monsters in Doom 3 the EXACT
    >> same way I could fake out the fiends(?) in Quake 1.
    >>
    >
    >What way could they not be faked out?
    >
    >If somebody swung at you, you'd naturally back away and they would be
    >carried by *momentum* into their swing

    In most games with melee monsters (at least the unrefined ones), I find
    that most attackers run forward towards you, make a full stop, and attack.
    While it might be acceptable if the attack animation was a quick jab, most
    of the melee attacks are "slow" or involve multiple strikes.

    In most cases, the melee attackers usually swing at thin air when the
    player dodges them, which absolutly doesn't look right considering the
    distances involved. Quake I fixed this a little by having the monster move
    forward during its attacks, but the player can still side-step to dodge.

    >If the monsters stopped mid-swing, it would probably look and feel bad
    >(personal opinion alert)
    >
    >I agree, the melee monsters are easy to fake out, but I think that's the
    >general direction the devs had in mind.

    Melee monsters should not be faked out. Fled from is okay, but faking out
    by dodging their scripted attack gives an awkward feel for game mechanics.

    An example of excellent melee combat would be Star Wars: Jedi Outcast is
    considered to be a ground breaker - the lightsaber combat is well refined
    with no visible flaws in enemy attacks. (There may be AI problems or
    gameplay quirks, but they aren't related.) Rune may have done melee
    combat first, but it doesn't appear as refined for some reason (probably
    because some attack sequences such as kicking obstacles cause the AI to
    stand still. Other bugs exist, such as throwing an axe so that the AI
    can't use it's heavier weapon.)
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    SnoopJeDi wrote:
    >> True enough. Despite assertions from other people that they're light-years
    >> smarter, I could still fake out the melee-only monsters in Doom 3 the EXACT
    >> same way I could fake out the fiends(?) in Quake 1.
    >>
    >
    >What way could they not be faked out?
    >
    >If somebody swung at you, you'd naturally back away and they would be
    >carried by *momentum* into their swing (hence action-movie scenes where
    >people duck a blow and the opposition's fist cruises over their head etc.)

    I was talking more vertically. Jump up onto something a bit zany (like the
    moving cubes in Quake, or a crate-on-a-crate in Doom 3), a lot times of melee
    critters will lose track of you even if they could jump to your height.

    Len

    --
    Pointless sig file.
    http://www.archonrealm.com | http://archonrealm.tripod.com
    Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
    End pointless sig file.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

    "assaarpa" <redterminator@fap.net> wrote in message
    news:conhv6$ic3$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
    > Is that the best game designers can come up with these days?

    Maybe people will be more thrilled with Quake 4!
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:44:29 +0000, Len Pitre wrote:


    > I was talking more vertically. Jump up onto something a bit zany (like the
    > moving cubes in Quake, or a crate-on-a-crate in Doom 3), a lot times of
    > melee critters will lose track of you even if they could jump to your
    > height.
    >
    > Len

    Although Return to Castle Wolfenstein isn't usually praised for its AI, I
    was actually surprised once in the Trainyard level (or whatever it's
    called) when I was standing on top of a train and one of the nazi soldiers
    literally jumped up and down, trying to get to me. Another vertical
    example is when you're beginning one of the later levels where you're
    about to go into a castle and there's some guys on the roof, shooting down
    at you. One guy literally started climbing down a ladder, trying to get to
    me, and then fell of the ladder to his death. I thought that was
    incredible at the time.

    Come to think of it, even at the tram station, I had climbed up on top of
    a room, waiting for the two soldiers to ride the tram over. I was just
    sitting there, thinking that I could sit idle for a moment. ONe of the
    soldiers actually climbed up the ladder and started shooting at me,
    without having seen me beforehand. It was spooky.
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    Richard Cavell wrote:
    > Am I the only one who thinks that this game isn't fun?
    >
    > The level designers have merely used the same formulas over and over
    > again. Like a reflex, every time I see a trivial enemy in front of me I
    > look behind me (into an area I cleared) to see the difficult enemy. All
    > I do is strafe and shoot, then pick up the powerups where the enemy was.
    > Kilometre after kilometre of strafe and shoot.
    >
    > This is why Half-life 1 was revolutionary - it had so many new ideas and
    > puzzles that you genuinely needed to solve.
    >
    > Do I sound like I'll benefit more from Half-Life 2? Or am I right -
    > that graphics doth not a game make?
    >
    > Doom 3's engine is clearly awesome. The Hell level is a superb example
    > of what the engine can do. I'd like to see what other game programmers
    > are going to do with this engine.

    Wow, this thread sure got a lot of replies.

    I've been a very loyal fan and customer of id products since Doom1. I've
    enjoyed all the Mission Packs and 3rd Party games using the various
    Quake / Doom engines.

    In my opinion Quake 3 Arena and Return to Castle Wolfenstein were
    fantastic. I love them, and play them over and over still. But the
    pathetic Star Trek game using the Q3 engine easily proved there's more
    to a game than the engine.

    As for Doom3, like most in this thread, I'm bored by it. I've enjoyed
    Hell, except for the 'boss' with the seekers, but the rest of the game
    has been dull, and I've lost any desire to finish it, or to repeat any
    part of it (except maybe the Chicken Punch at the start - best fun in
    the whole game).

    I look forward to other games using the D3 engine, but I'll never again
    pre-order any of the id products or spinoffs until I've seen them
    reviewed by players (not reviews by the people hawking games magazines).
    This game has destroyed my faith in id's understanding of what makes a
    good game.

    D3 is, as usual, an exhibition of Carmacks brilliance (although I think
    they were stupid to develop so far ahaed of capabilites of current
    graphics cards). Spending 10 million developing a dull game sure seems a
    waste!

    This game tried to replace the adrenailin of heavy action in Doom with
    the adrenalin of fright. The fright quickly looses it's adrenalin rush,
    and the fighting action becomes extremly routine (tiresome even).

    Where's a damn frag-fest, and an open field to run through?

    The most attractive bits of the game were looking out the monorails
    windows. That's where the action should have been! Outside!

    I wish their energy had been spent getting RTCW2 to work. Having that
    project dropped was as disappointing as playing D3.
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    In article <x3Rsd.191126$Np3.7807922@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len Pitre) wrote:
    >Raymond Martineau wrote:
    >
    >>Doom 3 was basically a remake of an old game, which is naturally a great
    >>way to produce comments about being a game tacked on to a new engine. (In
    >>a way, Quake 1 could be described the same way since monsters haven't
    >>changed since Doom. Same with Quake 2 - graphics improved, but the enemies
    >>still seem to be scripted in the same way as their predecessors. )
    >
    >True enough. Despite assertions from other people that they're light-years
    >smarter, I could still fake out the melee-only monsters in Doom 3 the EXACT
    >same way I could fake out the fiends(?) in Quake 1.

    What precisely did you do?

    >
    >Len
    >
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.doom (More info?)

    Michael_jd wasted my time with the following on 12/12/2004 5:40 AM:

    >
    > What precisely did you do?
    >

    Len Pitre wasted my time with the following on 12/6/2004 10:44 PM:

    > I was talking more vertically. Jump up onto something a bit zany (like the
    > moving cubes in Quake, or a crate-on-a-crate in Doom 3), a lot times of melee
    > critters will lose track of you even if they could jump to your height.
    >

    He already said this in a reply to one of my messages.


    --
    Noob - "do you hack?"
    Justin - "i hack like a maniac!"
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    Justin - "i have *ALL* the cables!"
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