Muslim Brotherhood Takes Elections by Storm
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/ [...] tfbHoR0r8B
I'm confused. We were told all during the Arab spring, that the Muslim Brotherhood was not interested in holding political/government office. What gives?
Lets see, an organized group in an unorganized (read chaotic) country. Seems logical that they would do well in that environment. Agree with them or not, but they "seem" to offer order in a society that begs for stability.
As Ive read the Muslim brotherhood denounced violence in the 70's and the radical part of the organization spawned Hamas.
They are much better than the ruling junta though......And as long as its democratic and the people want them in office let them govern themselves.
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the Muslim brotherhood, i think its a little too early to tell. But the removal of the peace treaty over Gaza would concern me though.
I'm just questioning why 6 months ago they offcially said they were not interested in holding any public office. This was given heavy play in the American media as well.
Remember, there is the spoken truth and then the unspoken truth.
Their motto is still:
“Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.”
In September 2010, Muhammad Badi’ gave a sermon in which he said, "... the improvement and change that the [Muslim] nation seeks can only be attained through jihad and sacrifice and by raising a jihadi generation that pursues death, just as the enemies pursue life."
Muhammad Badi' is one of the Brotherhood's Supreme Guides.
They did condemn the Sept 11th attacks. I don't know enough to participate in this thread though. I sincerely hope that an Egyptian citizen would weigh in on this, or someone more familiar with the situation on the ground.
lol,some people never learn,do they ?
If the muslim brotherhood wins,then the Egypt will pretty much have the same faith like the countries in ME.
They protested against "Hosni Mubarak" and since he was a logical person,he didn't want anyone to get killed and therefore;he resigned.After that the Egyptians protested that why the military people have the power and now they're voting for the Islamic brotherhood which is a big mistake IMO and if the brotherhood wins, I'm sure they'll soon regret why they protested against Mubarak.
Anyone who understands the history of the Brotherhood, like you Maziar, understands that this is not a good thing. Thank you for responding to this thread. I hoped you would.
No prob.
Unfortunately Egyptians don't seem to learn from other countries.When they first protested against Mubarak,I knew something like this was going to happen
Maziar I heard sugar just tripled in price over there in Iran ... amongst other things.
I'm going to post your family 10 Kgs for free !! Stuff em !!
/worries a bit about the postage and handling ...
The West might have a problem with your govt but its the citizens that suffer ... people like you who are just and honest, and here helping Toms community of PC enthusiasts ... every day.
Let that be a lesson to all of you ... govts rise and fall ... beneath them are decent people who end up getting hurt.
I did read today the MB are keen to ally with the moderates and allay the fear of the other denominations living in Egypt ... they seem smart enough to realise if they annoy the merchants / busoness people they won't have much of an economy to work with.
haha,as a matter of fact,it really has become more expensive.
And yes,people always suffer.I mean when the brotherhood take control of Egypt,those few honest part of the society who didn't vote for them will suffer more than the others.Just like what happened in ME countries.
no , Al-queda no 2 in command the Egyptian born doctor , is , was and has been Muslim Brotherhood ..I have heard that half the 'journalists' at Al-Jazeera are also Muslim Brotherhood ..
I have mixed feelings on this, only because it is unclear as to the true intentions of the organization, not to mention their support track record. However I am in total support of the Egyptian people and the questioning of the military rule considering the way they handled political dissidents and the unfair trials that have been documented over the last few months. Scary stuff, I wouldn't know what was best for them if it was looking me in the eye, only because of the diversity of the problems of forming a new government from the current wreckage.
The whole state of the world today is really quite sad. Most world leaders seem to have no moral code that any sane person could actually call moral and the few that do (have a strong moral code) are mostly, if not all religious fanatics.
History has shown us, beyond a shadow of a doubt just how safe the world is when the "religious fanatics" are in charge and with no world leaders standing on firm moral ground to oppose this the world is really entering into a dangerous faze of human history.
Very sad, I worry for our children and grand children.
Religion is a personal choice but no religious group should ever be able to mandate how a society or country is run in terms of laws.
| REYNOD wrote : Religion is a personal choice but no religious group should ever be able to mandate how a society or country is run in terms of laws. |
Agreed. Well said.
This lessens my cynical view somewhat. Especially considering he has millions of viewers/followers.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/96a [...] z1g2uyCuFN
Lots O' Hanky Panky going on.
I've been listening to a lot of commentary/talk as I've had a lot less time to read over the holiday's, but this whole Syrian issue stinks to high heaven of subterfuge. There are so many questions about the local media coverage and the time frames and focus for covering them that it's hard to believe that it wasn't an inside job used to instill fear and push an agenda. Sounds familiar; like something from a decade ago...
I wonder if it is as well.
I think we are all thinking the same thing ...
Odd eh?
There could be repercussions in the timeline Doctor ...
Some interesting insight into what the future may hold. I would love to hear Mazier's comments on what the article says about Iran.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo [...] begun.html
OMG a good read ... thanks for that.
Mr Joshi write well.
Do you think that Egypt will go the way of Pakistan ... or Turkey?
Frankly I think Turkey has done a better job of finding the middle road but I do hold hopes Pakistan will get on its feet economically and become more moderate ,,, it is more of a worry with the more extreme tribes.
| Oldmangamer_73 wrote : Some interesting insight into what the future may hold. I would love to hear Mazier's comments on what the article says about Iran.
|
I agree with some parts(like Libya) but don't agree with most of the parts(about Egypt)
Only time will tell though,but I don't think anything good will happen in Egypt.
Muslim Brotherhood vows not to recognize Israel
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=251732
How "moderate" of them.
I only just cleaned up the spilled oil from the Hanukkah lights off the hallway buffet table ... and put away the wife's christmas decorations today.
Now I can't go to visit the Pyramids?
Sheesh !!
| Maziar wrote : lol,some people never learn,do they ? |
Egypt already is primarily Muslim.
And speaking of Hosni Mubarak, he really messed up. He had two weeks between his resignation (Feb. 11) the time he was charged (Feb. 28) where he could have voluntarily gone into exile.
| jsc wrote : Egypt already is primarily Muslim.
|
Yes they are primarily Muslim but they had their freedom of speech/clothing and that may not last much.
He messed up,yes I agree but didn't deserve to be treated like that.
Now let's wait and see how will the brotherhood do compared to Mubarak.I guaranty you that Egyptians will regret what they did.It takes time but it'll finally show it's effects.
Yup, time will tell.
I'll tell you what though, if we start seeing Al-Queda's flag showing up in Egypt like it is in Libya and parts of Tunisia we should be very worried.
| Oldmangamer_73 wrote : Yup, time will tell.
|
I just don't see AQ finding a foothold in Tunisia, Egypt, or even Libya. They represent such a radical view that I just can't see them representing a mainstream movement. You may see a flag waving in a crowd, but you could see that in downtown DC as well.....
Every country has their "fruit cakes", just look at the spectrum of knuckleheads we have in US politics, relegion, and "social" groups (e.g., KKK, various militia groups and religious cults......).
| COLGeek wrote : I just don't see AQ finding a foothold in Tunisia, Egypt, or even Libya. They represent such a radical view that I just can't see them representing a mainstream movement. You may see a flag waving in a crowd, but you could see that in downtown DC as well.....
|
Lets hope your're right!
just sayin' COL
Flying proudly over the birthplace of Libya's revolution, the flag of Al Qaeda
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar [...] Qaeda.html
| Oldmangamer_73 wrote : just sayin' COL
|
I have no doubt that the AQ "flag" is there (and other places), I just don't see them becoming a viable participant in the new Libya. I can't imagine any circumstance, after all the people of Libya went through, allowing themselves to be hi-jacked by AQ's misguided ideology.
Only time will tell, my friend.
Flags are symbols. Symbols mean things to many people.
| Oldmangamer_73 wrote : Flags are symbols. Symbols mean things to many people. |
This, is indeed, quite true and for both good and bad.
Bad as in this symbol?
Hey now, my 4400+ San Diego chip is still going strong since 2005!
I love AMD! Al-Queda, not so much.
Looks like they will take the majority is round 3 as well, with al-Nouri party coming in second.
http://www.reuters.com/article/201 [...] W020120104
Just to play the Devils Advocate here but isnt this democracy at work?
| wanamingo wrote : Just to play the Devils Advocate here but isnt this democracy at work? |
Yes it is, good call. In the MB's case, they are likely the best organized and most recognized of all the parties in play here as well. It shouldn't be a surprise that they are doing well as a group in this environment.
| wanamingo wrote : Just to play the Devils Advocate here but isnt this democracy at work? |
Assuming these are honest elections, yes this is democracy. However, that doesn't make it any less concerning that a group who's motto is as follows:
“Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.”
seems to be coming to power in Egypt. So yeah, yaaaaaaay for democracy but lets not hide our heads in the sand here.
| Oldmangamer_73 wrote : Assuming these are honest elections, yes this is democracy. However, that doesn't make it any less concerning that a group who's motto is as follows:
|
Sometimes picking the wrong candidates is the price of democracy. It will be up to Egyptian people to decide their own fate and to determine how the rest of the world interacts with them.
Hopefully, they look to the choices made in Palastine and how they have been viewed and use that knowledge when they cast their votes.
This is not very encouraging.
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/618821
Full disclosure, I am a staunch supporter of Israel. After reading the article above I have to conclude this thing is not moving in the right direction, at all.
| Oldmangamer_73 wrote :
|
Not to create a flame war (seriously), but why are you a staunch supporting of Israel? In your opinion, what does the US gain from this relationship? What are the US interests in the region as it relates to Israel?
Also, have you ever talked to the "locals" (in the Middle East/SWA) and how they view the relationship between the US and Israel? I am not talking politicians, but "real" people. If not, you might be surprised at how "fairness", treating everyone the same, matters.
Really I just want to understand your view. I honestly don't understand (I do, but I don't agree with most reasons) why we support Israel the way we do. They are like the friend your folks warned you about having when you were a kid. The friend that was always getting you in trouble along with them. The friend that always said "he started it (the other guy)" and took you along for the ride.
Enlighten me (I am really not trying to goad you).
OMG always has struck me as a conservative that tows the line on most everything conservative, Israel included. And that's not supposed to be a slight against him, just an observation. Solidarity isn't a bad thing by any means, but I don't get some of the conservative world views and this deep seeded belief in "American Exceptionalism" that is very apparent.
I don't understand the big obsession with Israel either, but it's kind of one of those situations of creating a Frankenstein monster, and now we have to mind the monster.
Also, I have nothing against Jews just to make it clear, but I do have issues with their tactics against the Palestinians, but then I don't agree with their harboring of terrorists. Seems like a revolving door problem in my eyes.
The very fact that some tried to kill every Jew was a start.
The relationship and recognition of our forefathers between Christianity and Judaism, tho some are in denial, as it says, God given rights etc, this country stood for, and is slowly losing many things, as well as this credo.
Now, enter into the fact, at various times many leaders within the region has also wanted the death of all Jews, and will not even acknowledge its existence is just another round of fanaticism by some.
Meanwhile, Isael has helped us and supported us in many many things
So, either ignore history and ask why, or say this isnt enough, cant be somewheres in between
Helped the US do what? Don't get me wrong, the Jews (as a religion) have indeed been persecuted. But many of their actions, in the name of their religion and under the flag of Israel are the same actions taken by the Islamic community and various nations. They both defend their right to believe what they believe.
BTW, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all started in the same part of the world in about the same time frame. All 3 claim the same piece of dirt as their homeland.
Add all of this together and you have a bunch of people that simply hate each other. A hate originated in religion.
So, what national interests are in it for the US? This is an academic discussion, meant to be objective, not criticism.
Once again, how, just once, has Israel helped the United States in any significant manner?
Judaism dates back over three thousand years, Christianity, whom the first was a Jew, over 2 thousand, and Islam 1300 plus.
The Jews had their wars thousands of years ago, The Christians, around a thousand, and the Muslims continue to this day.
The Jews and Christians have found ways to coexist, and appreciate each other
So far, in the broadest sense, Islam hasnt embraced either Christianity or Israel to the point of coexistence.
Much of what Israel has done is military and sometimes legal/policing etc
The Jews and Israel taught us a lesson
After wed fought what was hoped to be a great and final war, and all the efforts, losses and costs, we discovered the horrors of the fate of 6 million people, who had nothing in common other than they were Jews.
The middle east was carved up, and delegated by the Allies as to who, and where the lines would be drawn.
Since that day, Israel has been by far the most cooperative, helpful friend in that region.
Iran has declared war on the US
Iraq decided to just take over one of the better places in the region, thumbing their nose at the world, and go back to what was at some point in time "their" territory.
Egypt has traditionally been a good ally, was the first to acknowledge the existence of Israel, and now this is threatened as well.
Islam claims the world as theirs, so does Christianity, but thru faith, and Gods will.
So, finding the fate of 6 million peoples, who from its start, Israel was under constant attack.
Understand, freedom as we know it, as Israel knows it, allows for these attacks
I wish MAZIAR were here, he would tell you how such freedom just isnt found in Islam, and why such attacks arent possible.
Looking further into it, Anwar Sadat held much freedom for Egypt, and died because of it
Also, Id point out, there are many who still hate the Jews, and perpetuate a one sidedness, where other countries have gained much more than Israel from the US, but it appears quite different, and that in itself is quite telling, as well as the undertones of quietness of the many attacks upon Israel, which is only mentioned after Israel reacts to them.
Its a sad situation
jaydeejohn, I agree it is a sad situation with a long history of hate and violence. But, I am still waiting for the one example of Israel doing something that serves in the best interests of the US.
This isn't a question about how the Post WW2 powers carved up the regions, or how the other countries in the region have behaved in the past 60+ years.
It is a question of US National Interests. We have a "special relationship" with Israel. Why? What has the US gained in return? Why do US politicians, in both parties, feel the need to express their allegiance to this special relationship? Is this purely a matter of money and influence (as in votes)? Is this a matter of religious correctness in regards to Christianity and Judaism?
Just a couple of things to think about, my friends, nothing more.
Until the aliens invade and threaten all of mankind with extinction, we will not have humanity work together for the greater good of mankind and we will always be in conflict with one another. Here's pulling for the invasion...... Just keepin' it "real"!
As Ive said, its our history mostly.
I can dig up links
I will say this
Imagine a fabresearch anywhere in the middle east
If not for the one in Israel, its very possible thered be no C2D
Again, our forefathers created a nation, by which its citizens were given its freedoms, not by a government, but considered God given rights.
Israel is obviously Jewish, the rest of the middle east Islamic
Theres been democracy there, something steady to count on there, unlike the latest leader in the middle east, where often they dont last, and just as often, where such freedoms we enjoy just cant happen.
Now again, look at the cold war, and see what democracy means to the US
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