Upgrade more?

[Valorum]

The short:
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I upgraded my video card in my somewhat old system. Goal was to up my system's ability to play games, particularly BattleField 2. It appears i'm unable to squeeze high FPS out of BF2, while other games fly at high FPS with this new card. So i want to figure what i need to do for higher FPS in BF2. Is it software? Is it hardware? Do i need to upgrade other pieces of my system?

If you can help with info, recommendations etc, please read on for details.

Overview
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I have an Intel D845EBT mobo with a P4 2.53GHz CPU. I just upgraded my Radeon 9700 Pro to a Radeon X800 XT PE (AGP, got a great deal on it.)

Installation worked fine. UT2K4 runs awesome: i can crank up everything to the max without any problems whatsoever. KotOR2 also runs fluid with everything cranked up. No problems there.


BattleField 2
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However, Battlefield 2 is a different thing. It runs around 30FPS on average most of the time. I was hoping that the new video card would allow me to run this game with higher FPS, but apparently there's something else going on. I was hoping some of you could help me home in on the next thing i need to do to make BF2 run better.

It looks like the low FPS happen whenever others are around and stuff is going on around me. When there's a firefight between several people going on, when artillery is raining down, when helicopters are attacking etc.

Even if i set everything to "Low", i still hover around the low 30fps and below(!) quite regularly when stuff is going on.

I played with the settings a lot. I ran 800x600 @ Low, and 1280x1024 with most options at least at Medium (used tweakguides.net's recommended settings as guideline) Interestingly enough the FPS doesn't suffer a whole lot between the two extremes. Yes, with the 800x600 "Low" settings, i'll make it up to about 70FPS when no-one else is around and i look at the sky, while with the 1280x1024 "Medium" settings i may only get up into the 50-60FPS range. Still, in both scenarios i'll drop down into the 30FPS and below, even under 20FPS(!), when stuff is going on around me.

Where's the problem?
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Since the other games run fine and seem to really benefit from the new video card, i'm suspecting that its a combination of BF2 and my other hardware that's causing this.

I currently have a cheapo SoundBlaster 16 PCI sound card. I'm sure this one is taxing my system because it probably doesn't have much if any hardware acceleration. I'm replacing this with an Audigy 2 ZS in the next few days, and i'm expecting that to at least take some burden off of my CPU.

I somewhat suspect that my mainboard and CPU are simply not up to the task. I thought a 2.53GHz CPU would be enough to run at least decent FPS in BF2, but apparently that's not entirely true.

I suspect that i need to at least upgrade my mainboard to something beefier. I suspect i should also upgrade my RAM to something faster / more modern. I wonder if i could keep my CPU, since 2.53GHz should be at least relatively adequate...? My current CPU has a 533MHz FSB speed. I'm sort of suspecting i may need to up to a CPU with 800MHz to actually get some benefits...?

Help!
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Am i correct in my suspicions? Is this where i need to upgrade to get the desired performance increase? Or is there something else i should look at / for?

If it is the other hardware...

Should i just find a better mainboard that's compatible with my current CPU and get newer memory to match? If so, which mainboards should i look at?

Or should i just toos the mobo+RAM+CPU and buy something new? Should i get an AMD 64 based setup? Obviously i'd like to stick with AGP, so what would be a good mobo + CPU combo to go for?

My budget is limited (a couple hundred bucks max for the mobo+ram+cpu), so i'm not sure what the best way to go is. I'm not looking for "ultimate" performance (i would've not gotten the AGP X800 and would've saved up for a PCI Express setup).

Any recommendations / thoughts / things i should look at?

Thanks!


BTW - Here's a link to info about my mainboard. Yes, it's kinda old.
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d845ebt/index.htm<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Valorum on 08/19/05 02:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[o1die]

Newegg has the retail boxed venice 3000 with epox 9NDA3J for about $226 ($8 discount when purchased together). That's what I would recommend for an agp setup. With this board, you might get your 3000 to 2.4 or higher. But you'll also need at least pc3200 to run this cpu overclocked, and a 350 watt or higher quality power supply, such as antec, enermax, or sparkle (fortron). So I recommend you save some more before upgrading.

 

[fishmahn]

How much RAM do you have? BF2 uses a lot of RAM, and if you haven't patched it, its got a memory leak and uses even more...

If ram isn't it, it's likely your CPU - BF2 may need more power. Its probably a combination of the 2, plus the fact that your mobo is single-channel (the CPU is starved for data)

Umm, upgrade options...

If you're going to replace the CPU, I'd go for an A64 rig - they're the best price/performance for gaming. You'll need something with an nForce3 chipset for AGP support, and I'd get a socket 939 - the previous poster's suggestion is a good one, but it does go over your budget.

Another option, and it may prove less expensive, but its also less of an upgrade, is to get a dual-channel board for your existing CPU. If you're willing to overclock and the CPU can take it, this may be the most economical option. Get an 865/875-based board (Abit IS7 is a good choice - I think - I'm really an AMD guy, so don't know Intels that well), a gig of PC3200 RAM, and crank that CPU up. The dual-channel will give you a boost right up front (maybe enough to get you over the fps hump? I don't know), and if that CPU can hit 3ghz or more, that'll be a decent system for a while. Might need a better CPU cooler as well (under $50 usually), depending on what you've got currently. If your existing RAM is PC2700 and you have enough of it, you may not need to replace it - overclocking a 2.53 to synch at 'PC2700' speed will make it about 3.15ghz - probably about the OC limit - but I'm not certain about that.

Mike.

<font color=blue>Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside the dog its too dark to read.
-- Groucho Marx</font color=blue>

 

[Valorum]

Thanks for the replies!

I have a gig of RAM right now. Plain ol' PC2700 i believe.

I did patch BF2 to 1.02, so the memory leak should be taken care of there.

To me, the symptoms seem to not really suggest a lack of memory, because the speed seems to go down when stuff is going on, and goes back up when the surroundings are static. I'm wondering if the game needs more CPU horsepower to be able to process all the activity going on. But the thing is, the minimum specs for the game don't ask for a huge CPU i thought...? So i'm wondering if it's something else perhaps. Could it be that the mainboard is only AGP 4x? Shouldn't really matter as far as i know, since 8x doesn't add much, and it's only really needed for when the video card needs to get to the regular memory for textures. This card has 256MB on board, which should be plenty. Besides, if that wat the problem, i would expect it to show up as brief "freezes" when textures are swapped in and out, not low FPS.

So i'm a bit puzzled that a 2.53GHz machine with 1GB of RAM and a beefy video card still don't seem enough, especially since other games seem to be flying... Heck, even F.E.A.R. i can crank up quite a bit and run smoothly.

I'll have to look into the options you guys offered and see how much it'd run me. Extra performance is still nice, and if i were to upgrade the mobo+cpu+ram, i would have a use for the old stuff. My plan was to not spend a whole lot of money, because i was approaching it as maxing out what i have for the least amount of money for now, and then later i'll probably go for a "real" system once the PCI-express etc settles a little.

I like the options you guys offered though, and if i can do this for only a few hundred dollars, i may just do it.

Thanks!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Valorum on 08/19/05 05:38 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[fishmahn]

There may be other things causing the lag/delay than CPU. I don't know much about BF2 - maybe someone who uses it here can help, or someone from the BF2 tech. forums. Internet lag can have an effect, as can the speed of the server. It sounds from your description like it can be one of just a few things - the CPU (and RAM interface to process everything), the internet connection, and/or the server.

Its definitely not the AGP4x. AGP8x has twice the bandwidth, but in all the benchies I've seen it doesn't improve graphics performance at all over 4x (well, less than 1 fps IIRC).

You've got enough RAM, you've got the graphics card, your CPU is probably adequate, if on the low side of adequate, and your mobo is single channel. You've got a couple things working against you on that setup. First is your mobo is single channel. Pentium 4's are notorious for needing memory bandwidth. At 533fsb, you're CPU is able to 'suck data in' at 4.2gb/s. But your mobo can only send it at 2.1gb/s. That's a bottleneck. Second is the 533fsb. When the P4C came out with the 800fsb, that made a big boost to performance. That's why I suggested just a new mobo. Minimal expenditure to let you get the most out of your existing system.

I would search around the BF2 tech. forums and see if you can find an external reason for your slowdown when things get busy. If it still points to your CPU then maybe try the new mobo and see if that gives you the boost you need.

Mike.

<font color=blue>Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside the dog its too dark to read.
-- Groucho Marx</font color=blue>

 

[Valorum]

Thanks Mike, i appreciate the feedback. I am doing my research to see how much i'd be looking at spending when going with the options you suggested.

The thing that puzzles me is.. I borrowed Doom 3 from a friend to see how that would work, since that's a pretty hardware intensive game. Turns out i can crank everything up all the way at 1280x1024 and play smoothly with around 50FPS most of the time. Also playing UT2K4 bombing runs online at 1280x1024 and 1600x1200 with everything maxed out runs smooth as a baby bum.

So it puzzles me that those "heavy" games have no problems, online or offline, yet BF2 seems to have issues.

Another interesting thing i found out this weekend after testing more and more... It seems that the low FPS happens only when there are lots of players or bots. When i logged on to an empty server, i could run around and get 50-70 FPS in BF2. But when i get to a busy server and get into battle, FPS would drop as described into the 20s (and below sometimes.) Same would happen in single player mode: when there are lots of bots around, FPS would drop. I'm trying to find a BF2 specific place to ask about this.

Thanks!