CPU Support on a 440BX based mainboard

[mlg]

Im helping a friend building a extremly low budget system for web browsing/email and stuff like that. (Total budget including screen, keyboard and mouse maximum 150 Euros.)
As a starting point for this Ive bought an old Fujitsu Siemens 661 with a FS D1107A mainbord (<A HREF="http://manuals.fujitsu-siemens.com/peridocs/sysboard/A26361-D1107-Z120-US.pdf" target="_new">manual</A>). Right now there is a old PII (233MHz, I belive) on it, but the board supports (much?) faster CPUs.
The board has a 440BX northbrige on it and is a slot1 board.
According to the manual the board supports CPUs up to PIII@6*100MHz (Katmai core if im not mistaken?), but is it possible to use even faster CPUs than that? According to <A HREF="http://www.pcmech.com/show/chipsets/3/" target="_new">this page</A> the 440BX was very long lived. I have no experience with Intel CPUs and m/bs at all, but I have quite a lot of experience in running old AMD boxes horribly much faster than they ever were supposed to run.
So here's finally the question; If I buy a slot 1 --> socket 370 convertor, is it possible to use any socket 370 CPU or do the bios/mb specificly have to support that multiplyer/core?
According to the manual you set the CPU speed with jumpers, but it also says that if the CPU is locked (like I suppose all "high end" socket 370 CPUs are?) you dont need to set the speed correctly with those jumpers. The only problems I can see is that I have to limit myself to 100MHz FSB CPUs, because I doubt there is a setting for 133MHz FSB. And the secound problem is core voltage. Katmai (max supported according to manual) uses 2.0 v, coppermine uses 1.7 and Tualin uses 1.5v. It would really be great to whack in a 1.4GHz CPU in this system. But is it possible?

 

[mlg]

Thanks for the reply.

You'd have to check the FS website for BIOS updates on that particular board with regarding supports for Coppermine.

Nope, no updates whatsoever on their website. I have, however found non-working links to bios-updates on google (spose Ill just have to keep on googling.. ). And I also found a manual for a server computer that is based on my MB. That manual says it supports up to 800MHz. I also found <A HREF="http://www.upgradeware.com/english/product/slott/compatibility.htm" target="_new">this</A>. On a swedish mirror of that page there was a small paragraph that said that you should ignore vcore warning if using a 1.5V CPU. According to <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/images/cpu_chart.gif" target="_new">this chart</A> that has to be either a tualin core or a northwood. And it really cant be a norhwood core..
But does this mean that all those board acctually supports all socket 370 cores in the same way that its possible to run all socket A CPUs on all socket A mbs (with enough tweaking of cource)?

The chance of EB with 133Mhz FSB working on your motherboard is slim as you need an AGP card that can take 89Mhz and possibility 44Mhz for PCI too(unless the motherboard has lower dividers for PCI).

I was under the impression that the 440BX automaticly set the PCI divider to 4 if running faster than 132MHz, but I dont think the ram copes with those speeds anyway. So Ill just stick to 100MHz FSB.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mlg on 08/31/05 06:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[mlg]

I don't think any 800Mhz Katmai were ever made.

Yup. the fastest one ran @ 600MHz.

Ive just read some more about the Upgradeware Slot-T adapter, and it appears that a swedish hardware store (<A HREF="http://www.databyggarna.com" target="_new">http://www.databyggarna.com</A>) has quite a lot of experience with exactly what Im looking for.
According to their FAQ the core doesnt matter at all. As long as the chipset is capable of supporting the FSB speed (it is) and the PWM is able to output 1.5V (and as its a PWM it really has to) it should work.
The Slot T adapter also appears to take care of forcing the chipset to run at the correct FSB and taking care of setting the output from the PWM to correct voltage.

So it acctually seems Im able to replace the 233MHz PII with a 1.4GHz PIII. Thats a 6x increase in CPU clock! Amazing.

Ive already bought:
Chassi
PSU
HDD, 16GB
RAM, 512MB
CD-RW
MB
Floppy
TNT2 graphics
for a total of 60 Euros.

The Slot T adaptor goes for 30 Euros and Im sure I can find a fast PIII for less than 40Euros.
Another friend of mine is willing to sell his old 17", keyboard and mice for 20 Euros.

Total, 150 Euros. Not to bad for such a computer, eh?

Thanks for all help.

 

[Crashman]

No, the 1.4GHz PIII is ALWAYS 133MHz bus. You'd need the 1.4GHz Celeron.

All this is already outlined in the first post of this forum, you know, the one titled "motherboards faq"?

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[mlg]

No, the 1.4GHz PIII is ALWAYS 133MHz bus. You'd need the 1.4GHz Celeron.

That was indeed my first thought as well, but Ive read that the chip supports 133MHz and automaticly sets the PCI divider to 4. (AGP would still run run at 84MHz, but if I used a PCI graphic board that wouldnt matter?)
As there is quite a bit of speed difference between a celeron and a P3 I would (naturally) like to use a P3 if its possible.
Are you certain it isnt possible to use a 133MHz FSB CPU?

All this is already outlined in the first post of this forum, you know, the one titled "motherboards faq"?

I (of cource) stared by reading the faq, but as the FAQ didnt mention anything about 133MHz bus I decided to start a thread about it.

Edit: I feel that I sound a bit hostile by questioning your knowleage. Thats not my intention and I appologize if anyone feels that Im "ignoring" the answers Im given. Its just that they contradicts my own findings. <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mlg on 09/01/05 04:11 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

89MHz AGP...but anyway

You're usually better off with an AGP card than a faster CPU bus. But some AGP cards work fine at 89MHz bus. In fact, most cards introduced between late 2000 and mid 2002 do.

Now, 1/4 PCI divider isn't a given, many boards didn't have the necessary clock multiplier to implement it. A specific example is the Abit BH6, where early versions didn't, but later versions did.

But you didn't even provide the motherboard model, did you? I've never seen a Slot-1 BX board that automatically detected and used the 133MHz bus, rather, it had to be set in BIOS, but not all boards supported that setting. Does yours?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[mlg]

You're usually better off with an AGP card than a faster CPU bus.

In what way will the bus of the card matter to desktop performance? Could you explain further?

Now, 1/4 PCI divider isn't a given, many boards didn't have the necessary clock multiplier to implement it. A specific example is the Abit BH6, where early versions didn't, but later versions did.

Okay. And as my board is quite old and not really made for any tweaking whatsoever I suppose it doesnt.
I also checked ebay for Celerons, and finding a 1.4GHz doesnt seem to be too difficult. (Spent about one hour yesterday trying to find a 1+GHz Celeron in Sweden. Didnt find any. But ordering from Europe shouldnt be a problem.)

But you didn't even provide the motherboard model, did you?

Of cource I did. First post, 2nd line.

I've never seen a Slot-1 BX board that automatically detected and used the 133MHz bus, rather, it had to be set in BIOS, but not all boards supported that setting. Does yours?

Not sure (doesnt have the board right here, right now), but I really doubt it. According to the (outdated) manual it isnt possible to set CPU speed at all in BIOS; youll have to do in with swithes.

@wusy: Yes, but do I/she really need that?

 

[Crashman]

OK, sorry I missed the board info. You could try to decode the switches from the manual and figure out which once control bus speed, then try the undocumented setting (which should be 133 bus), but it might not be usable. That takes you back to 100MHz bus processors. Setting the board for ANY 100MHz bus processor should work fine for the Celeron 1400, because the CPU will set it's own multiplier. ie, 4x100=1400, 5x100=1400, etc, because any multiplier chosen gets remapped as 14x.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[mlg]

To round things up: To test if the board works with 133MHz bus I would have to get a 133MHz CPU and test for myself. If it wouldnt work it would be a waste of both money and time.
Ive managed to get ahold of a 1.4GHz celeron for only 25 Euros. If everythings works as its supposed to it will arrive with the mail in less than two weeks.

Thanks for all help, its really appreciated.

 

[Crashman]

No problem. If you had a top overclocker like the later version BH6, BE6-II, or P3B-F, I would have suggested a 133MHz bus and an older AGP card that could handle the bus speed...but only if you were interested in buying an appropriate card.

The 1.4 Celeron is fine, it's a bit faster than the PIII 1000EB and faster still than the 1000E with 100 bus.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>