Personal Situation

[superflybribri]

Hello Everyone,
I am new to these message boards as well as this website and I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me decide on some hardware that I have been looking at. First I must start off by saying that I work in the field of architecture and work with 3DS Max a lot to do 3D renderings of my projects. I also work in the multimedia field and do a lot of editing with programs like Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator as well as video editing with Premiere and Encore. I aslo design web pages with Dreamweaver and Flash. I am looking to upgrade my personal system to better handle the newer software.

I typically run AutoCAD and 3DS Max simultaniously on dual monitors. I was considering upgrading to one of the new Intel Pentium D processors because of the benchmark results that I have seen for the 3DS Max rendering abilities. I also believe that this might be the new direction for a lot of other software in my field.

Unfortunately the one problem that has kept me from upgrading so far is that less than 6 months ago I bought an ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder 9600 XT that runs off of AGP. That is the slot that my current motherboard had and I didn't want to upgrade everything at once. I have been looking for quite some time but it seems like all the new Intel boards that are coming out for the Pentium D are running PCI Express. I understand that this is the new way but I just spent money on this video card and would like to keep it running. I am very happy with the performance of the video and am not too crazy about changing it.

I am not stuck on buying an Intel processor but I have only used them in the past and am not sure if I wanted to switch to an AMD processor only because they don't seem to make their own motherboards. I just heard on this website of something that allows you to insert an AGP card into a PCI Express slot but it sounds like it is only working for limited nVidia cards. I am not even sure how this would effect the performance of the graphics card.

In the end what I am looking for is advice on how I should be spending my money. I am not looking to spend too much but I am also not willing to cheap out and buy something that won't last me some time. If anyone has any advice on where I can get something for my current needs or has suggestions of using AMD X2 or a different motherboard for the Intel Pentium D or even if they think that I should just go with a Pentium 4 Extreme Edition or a dual processor motherboard as well then I would greatly appriciate the advice.

Don't hesitate to reply or send me an email at superflybribri@yahoo.com. Any information or suggestions would be of great help to me.

Thank you,
Brian

 

[apesoccer]

Need more information...

What is your current cpu, ram, and mobo.

If you were starting from scratch, we'd be able to give you a better idea. Wanting to stay with an older platform limits your abilities to upgrade (agp...and that card isn't exactly top notch...my graphics system would bury yours and it's not the best by any means). A friend of mine does finite anaysis for a company called delco remy...if you're going to do cad work, you want a little more ram then your max job, with limitations at 3gb (4gb) on a 32bit system (win xp, 2000, ME, 98se, 98). If your jobs never run above a gig or so, then buy 2gb, 2x1024mb, and pick up a dual processor setup Pentium-D or amd x2 and the boards to go along with. I don't think either right now (at least mainstream...*) supports agp with the D or the x2. They're both relatively good chips, but the Pentium D needs better cooling (just to keep in mind when picking out a hsf and or case). The graphics card i would replace...it's not even a workstation card...IMO, i'd pick up a 3dlabs or nvidia quadro card...You will see a difference, since they're designed to work with CAD. In photoshop i don't know if it matters or not (i've got the latest version...but i've got a pretty high end graphics set...so i don't notice any lag...) graphics wise, i'd be more worried about cpu. There are a few add-ins that are multithreaded, but not everythign will run better. Running autocad and 3ds max is where you'll see the biggest benifit. If i were putting a system that could run both...I'd max out the memory, pick up a 64-bit OS, P4-EE Dual processor (2 dual with 2xht)....bleh...right now there are too many options. You need to clean up what you need.

We need to know how much you want to spend, what you currently have (and what we can/'t use from that [also we can make the decisions on IF we can use your old equipment, and the effects of using said equipment) and how attached you are to that graphics card.

*-there is one board i can think of off the top of my head that supports both agp and pci-e...but it's not exactly a mainstream board; i believe it supports the amd series; i don't know about the intel side.

F@H:
AMD: [64 3000+][2500+][2400+][2000+][1.3][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x4][X 2.8x2][P4 3.0x2][P4-M 2.4][P4 1.3]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time

 

[fishmahn]

Just to add to what Apesoccer said (well written, Ape!), there is a chipset (by Uli) that supports both AGP and PCI-E, but its AMD only, and I don't know if it supports the X2 - I think so, but I'm not 100% certain. It looks like a very good chipset (it performs well in benchmarks), but its not mainstream like the Intel chipsets or nForce, and its very new - I've only heard of 1 mobo using it. With your concern for stability and reliability, I think the best thing for you would be to avoid it until it has a bit more longevity under its belt.

That means 2 basic options: Replace your 9600 so you can get the Pentium D, or keep the 9600 and get an nForce3 Ultra mobo with an AMD X2. You can also get an nForce4 mobo (which forces the replacement of your 9600) for an AMD, but that's similar to the Intel option.

Either CPU (AMD or Intel) will perform well for your tasks (given a similar price) - Intel generally faster for encoding (currently under debate but I think Intel still gets the nod) and AMD for most other things (equally debatable when multitasking), but either will perform well at any given price point.

Mike.

<font color=blue>Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside the dog its too dark to read.
-- Groucho Marx</font color=blue>

 

[superflybribri]

My current configuration includes a Intel Pentium III running at 1 GHz with 768 MB of SDRAM. This is the part of the computer that needs to be replaced. The graphics card does exactly what I need to do. It supports dual monitors, runs clean and crisp, and allows multiple types of inputs and outputs. It does what I need it to do for both my 3D CAD work and also my Multimedia work. I would say that I don't care about it but I feel like it is just another expense that I don't want to add onto my current upgrade. I don't mind spending is probably around $750. I would also like to mention that this computer is my personal computer and I only do freelance work on it. Thank you for your suggestions and I hope that I can still find out more information.

 

[superflybribri]

I was just looking up motherboards and there is that one motherboard by ECS called the KV2 that supports the new X2 processor from AMD but I don't know how great of a motherboard this is. I am sckeptical about it. If you have any information that would be great. I was also looking up the ATI All-in-Wonder cards and all of them except for one run on AGP. Is there any reason for that? Do you think that in the future they will come out with more motherboards for the dual core processors that might have AGP?

 

[Crashman]

Cheap alternative is to use an adapter to mount a PIII 1.4GHz Tualatin.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[superflybribri]

Hey,
I was just looking at that motherboards that I found from a link, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157080#DetailSpecs , to but I never know how to trust what is a good motherboard. I would love to just get an Intel motherboard or something that I know will be reliable. I mean I am not someone who likes to spend money for no reason but a motherboard that is only $60 kind of worries me. I want something that I can rely on. I know that AMD has said that its new X2 processors work on Socket 939 boards but does that mean that I can buy any Socket 939 board? My roommate has one that has an AGP slot that he has never had problems with and I am wondering if I can get that same board and use it with my current graphics card and the new X2 chip. The other thing that I was looking up was the All-in-Wonder cards that ATI makes being that is what I wanted to get and bought. While doing this I realized that six of the All-in-Wonder cards that they make are for AGP while only two of them are for PCI Express. I don't know if this is just because PCI Express is new but the new All-In-Wonder 2006 Edition is also made for AGP. I am wondering also if Intel is planning on coming out with AGP motherboards for the dual core chips in the future or they are just going to say forget it altogether?

 

[Crashman]

First of all, that's not an AGP slot on the board, it's a PCI slot with an AGP interface, which makes it 1/16 the performance of AGP8x (actually a bit less).

So scratch that shatty piece of trash, hell, it even has a junk chipset.

Intel doesn't make boards either, they have boards made for them by Foxconn, Asus, and FIC. Lowest bidder thing. The only advantage Intel boards have had is that these companies used the parts Intel told them to, including Nichicon capacitors for the most part.

You can get Socket 939 AGP boards using the nForce3 250 series chipsets, you just have to look for them. As for Intel, AGP+775 is a dead end, all of the AGP boards are using a PCI slot. The only true AGP+PCIe solution is the ULi M1695+M1567 solution, and that's for AMD.

I'd probably go with an nForce3 250 series Socket 939 board and an X2 CPU, but be aware that the board will need an X2 compatible BIOS loaded BEFORE installing the X2!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[o1die]

The epox 9nda3i has a new bios released on 9-14 for x2 and sempron 64 support. Apparantly, amd will have some new socket 939 semprons soon.

 

[apesoccer]

I'm guessing you're out of luck on the Intel front, at least in going with a P-D processor.

Pci-e is new, the boards first came out for pci-e about a year ago. They're already talking about a second tier of pci-e, one with more power running on it or something...(ahh the ever changing world of computers...sigh)

Anyway...Since you'll need to get a new board...Going with the nforce 3 series is the way to go (i think Crash suggested 250?). The thing with that is this...

You'll need to buy Ram, a CPU, and a Mobo for sure. Freelance huh...ok I've got a couple of friends who have done freelance in the past...that's a hard way to make money sometimes...but every bit helps. Ram...you're going to want DDR 3200 ram, i'd get 2x512mb (1024mb). I don't think those chipsets use dual channel ram (double checked...yes they do...so it makes more sense to buy in either a 2x512 or a 2x1024 formation). I'd get the X2 3800...it's a 2.0ghz x 2 chip (i just got mine yesterday). I payed 359.90 with free second day fedex from zipzoomfly.com for it (which is about the best price you can get...).

Anyway...so to get a dual cpu...and still stay with agp, you'll have to do some work. You'll need to find someone who will let you borrow their 939 non-x2 chip, to put in your board, then update the bios on your board, then you can use your X2 chip. Or you could take it to a shop if you can find one that works on AMD chips...but i've found the places that will work on them (computers in general not just AMD) overcharge alot...I've actually considered working for some of these places heh.

Or you can throw a new pci-e card on to the pile, but i imagine getting a aiw would be expensive...would probably put you over your limit.

Depending, you may need a new psu as well. You'll want a minimum of 300w, preferribly 400w+. 300 will probably cut it. Just check your power supply unit, it probably says 200, 250, 300, 320, 350, etc. The 3800+ uses 89w...which is pretty damn low...(keep in mind, not all psu's are created equal...if it isn't a good brand, it could say 300 on the side, and only give you 200...or it could be of good quality and say 300 and give you 350...).

F@H:
AMD: [64 3000+][2500+][2400+][2000+][1.3][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x4][X 2.8x2][P4 3.0x2][P4-M 2.4][P4 1.3]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time

 

[superflybribri]

Hello,
I guess that the way that I am going to go is for a new motherboard that uses Socket 939 with a AMD X2 3800+ and about 2 GB of DDR RAM. Thanks a lot for the advice. As far as the BIOS on the motherboard luckily my roommate has a Socket 939 motherboard with an AMD XP 3400+ processor in it so we can do it off of his. Tell me how it goes with your new processor because I won't be buying it probably till at least the end of next week. I saw that same price the other day and that is where I would be ordering it from too. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[superflybribri]

This is the motherboard that my roommate has and I was wondering if I should go with the same because he has never had any problems with it. It is the Asus A8V Deluxe Motherboard. I was looking up the nForce3 motherboards and they are pretty cheap. Is that because they are older? Should I still go with it? Also should I be looking for a motherboard with 8 GB or RAM or is 4 GB fine if I only plan on installing 2 GB right now? Thanks to all of you because you have been such a great help.

 

[apesoccer]

You might want to dbl chk on that 3400...heh. I don't think there exists a 3400 939 chip. 64-bit 2800, 3000, 3200, 3500, 3800, 4000; then x2 3800, 4200, 4400, 4600, 4800; and then there's the high end single processors...and the semprons. There might be a 939 64bit 3400 sempron maybe? I don't know anything about those.

edit: 2gb is great if you get them in 2x1024...it'll put you back 200-300 but it'll leave room for more ram. I don't think you can use 8 gb, and because of 32-bit limitations, you can't use more then 2gb per process, unless you set the Windows XP -3gb extension, which still only gets you up to 3gb. And really you can't use all 3gb even then, because 32-bit Windows can only support a Max of 3gb (including your page file, so if you make it so it uses all 3gb and u actually use it all with one app, then it'll crash your computer). Which is why i was talking about 64bit Win XP in my first post. Really using it wouldn't affect your ability to use more then 3gb per 32-bit process/app. However, it would allow you to have more then 3gb in your system, and you could use the extra ram towards other programs and/or your OS. (i'm assuming you don't have copies of any 64-bit apps...especially since there aren't very many out there...).

Also, when you start using larger quantities of ram, 2gb+, you start running in to timing issues. Drop us a line when you're ready to begin that. Most Intel Xeon systems i've run in to run with the ram at a slower speed to address this. I wouldn't recommend buying the cheapest 2gb you can find either...If you'd like recommendations on ram, let us know.

Oh yea, the Via chipset and board you mentioned. That's a good board too. I'd just about forgotten about Via. Probably almost every one of us here uses a Nforce chipset here (that has a 64-bit amd chip), but that's more so because we like to OC our systems (or like the idea that we can, if we so choose to).

F@H:
AMD: [64 3000+][2500+][2400+][2000+][1.3][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x4][X 2.8x2][P4 3.0x2][P4-M 2.4][P4 1.3]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by apesoccer on 09/16/05 03:16 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[superflybribri]

Hello,
Alright so I think that I am going with the AMD X2 3800+ and the ASUS A8V Deluxe motherboard. Is there any company that will send it to me with the latest BIOS already loaded or am I definately going to have to upgrade that myself? I would just prefer not to make my roommate take his computer apart so that I can upgrade mine. Also I would just like to go with the 2 GB of RAM but I have no idea which company I should be getting it from. I see that Kingston is popular should I go with that? I will be getting it in the form of 2 x 1024 definately. I would like to allow room to expand that later if I want to. Now if I do put another 2 GB of RAM in at a later date what will happen? Does Windows XP the 64-bit version have different software because I use mainstream software like 3DS Max, AutoCAD, Architectural Desktop, Photoshop, Illustrator, Encore DVD, Premiere, Dreamweaver, and Flash? I would need those all to be compatible and I really don't know anything about the difference between a 32 and 64 bit system.
Thanks again for all of your help