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Computer build problem, please help.

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September 17, 2005 12:40:21 AM

Hi, i have installed everything in my computer. but now when i power it on, nothing is being displayed on the screen. I have installed the cpu, memory, video card, hard drive(ide harddrive, just using it to see if everything is alright until i get my new SATA hdd) and now when i turn it on nothing is being displayed on the screen and there is no beeps. Also i have noticed that when i plug in the 6pin that came with the power supply to my vidoe card that the cpu fan stops working, but when i switched this 6 pin power cord with the one that came with my video card than the cpu fan spans. Also the power led and the hdd led are both steady, i don't know why the hdd led is not blinking.

when i first installed the memory i installed my two memory stick on slot number 3 and 4, when i noticed the computer is not working i took one out and putted it on slot 1, still computer not working.

about the video card, it has two dvi connectors on the back, i'm using a vga display but there is a converter so i don't think that the converter is the problem. Here are my specs of my system:

1)Asus P5LD2 Deluxe motherboard
2)2 x Kingston 533 1gb
3)Sapphire Radeon x850xt
4)40 gb ide harddrive
5)NEC dvd writer
6)Intel pentium 4 3.4 ghz 800 mhz with heatsink and fan
7)Athena power 500watt has a 24 pin connecter and a 8pin and 4 pin connentor to the motherboard.

ah i forget to mention, i tried to put the 4pin to my motherboard to see if anything would change, still the same, and the same goes for the 8pin.

so if anyone knows what is going on, please do tell. thank you.

More about : computer build problem

September 17, 2005 12:46:48 AM

also i wanted to add that when i put the power cord to my harddisk, the hard disk at least shacks a little, showing that it's working, but when i connect the IDE cable into it, it stops shacking, as if it wasn't working or something. But i think that a computer should be able to boot up without a harddrive, i seen it before.
September 17, 2005 2:30:47 AM

I took out the heatsink and fan, the power cords, everything. and than i inserted the 8 pin power cord and the 24 pin power cord, installed the video card again. powered it on, nothing again. i moved the memory from slot to slot, still nothing. I don't know anymore what is wrong. there is no beep, there is nothing that is hinting to something. I also played around with the video card by pluging in the 6 pin and taking it out. still nothing. is there a way to find out if the cpu or video card or memory is working or not, it could be that one of them is defective.
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September 17, 2005 3:49:19 AM

By the power connector, there are pins for a speaker. Did you connect one?
September 17, 2005 4:11:55 AM

do you mean the chass speaker, yes i did connect it. i connected it where i connected the hdd led, power led, power switch ect... by the way do you own the same motherboard as mines? thank you.
a b V Motherboard
September 17, 2005 7:55:54 AM

It sounds like you have a dual-12v-rail power supply, and one rail is dead.

But that might not be it. Make sure the board is mounted correctly with no spare mounting points, called standoffs, shorting the back side where there aren't any hole. The test configuration should have no drives connected, just the CPU, CPU cooler, RAM, video card, and keyboard.

Once you've verified that those few components are properly connected and nothing is shorted, you can start thinking about trying a different power supply.

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September 17, 2005 2:36:27 PM

Quote:
<b>I took out the heatsink and fan</b>, the power cords, everything. and than i inserted the 8 pin power cord and the 24 pin power cord, installed the video card again. <b>powered it on, nothing again</b>.

I hope you did not do that.. you did put the HSF back in place before hitting the power button?

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")<b>ώ</b>(")
September 17, 2005 2:41:15 PM

"Make sure the board is mounted correctly with no spare mounting points". i have put all nine screws to the board, didn't really tighten them hard cause i didn't wanna break it. the center point is not really a screw but a pin that sticks out, it came like that with the case. about the video and cpu and ram, i have removed the cpu and ram and video card and installed them again, seems the same problem.

My friend is going to come today with a volt meter tester, so i'm going to see if the 24 pin and 8pin (EPS 12v) and 4 pin and 6 pin video card cord have any current running through them.

if it turns out that the power supply is good, what do you think is the next step?

thank you.
September 17, 2005 4:57:46 PM

I don't think the processor is going to burn that quick, the most the computer was powered on was maybe 10 seconds, or the max was 30 seconds. do you think that it might have damaged the processor.
September 17, 2005 5:04:23 PM

It might not burn that quick, or it can. And some motherboard woth post id they dont sense a CPU fan connected. Anyway, it is a very stupid idea to start a CPU without proper cooling... Especially these HOT intel chip.

Never do that again!

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")<b>ώ</b>(")
September 17, 2005 5:11:49 PM

I think you right, i know i touched it and it almost toasted my hand. lol.
September 17, 2005 5:36:02 PM

This thing put around 100W, IIRC (please someone correct me here if i'm off the track) when it runs. Because BIOS doesnt have power management and everything, you cpu is running at 100% load, even if you are not doing anything more that looking at the BIOS setting. So, what you did was letting the CPU on maybe 30 second, at 100% load without any cooling. I hope that the motherboard have fan sensor to prevent the CPU to run without HSF or, the Intel thermal protection is very good.

You knew that letting your BIOS screen that shows CPU temp is actually the best because you have a cpu that work hard anyway and you can actually see if everything is ok by leaving it running for a while. This is what I do. I start the computer, goes in BIOS to the power management screen, and notice the start temperature. I leave it there for a while, and check the current temp. I do the difference between both temp and it give me the heat increase for the cpu. I dont care if it start a 100C.. I know that it is not a this temp at startup. if it end up a 110, then I know that I have a 10 degrees increase under load, which is good. If i have erroneous temp, I either update the BIOS to see if it fix the issue and if not, then if my system is stable in operation at full load, I just forget it.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")<b>ώ</b>(")
September 17, 2005 5:44:46 PM

I got to say, that the other time when i turned it on and the heatsink as on it, the cpu was cold, was in much better position than what i did now, without heatsink.
a b V Motherboard
September 17, 2005 11:00:10 PM

The last way to make certain the board isn't shorted is to try it on an insulated surface. I use a phone book. And I jump the "power on" jumper with a screwdriver for a fraction of a second to turn it on, when it's no longer in the case.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 18, 2005 9:58:08 PM

lol, you guys are going to find this funny. I took my parts motherboard, memory, vidoe card, cpu and heatsink and fan, and at first the computer didn't post or anything, and than he swtiched his own power supply to 580 watt and wow, it finally worked. so i guess it was the power supply after all, because i own a 500 watt and i guess that's not enough.

anyways, does anyone know how i can caculate the wattage that the computer really needs, that way i could make a good decision on what power supply to buy. i don't know if 580 is enough or not but i think if i get two harddrives, and a cd-row and 2 120mm fan and 90 mm on the side, i don't know if that's enough.
a b V Motherboard
September 18, 2005 10:11:11 PM

High end models from 1-1 years ago used 200W, when you add dual-video and dual-core CPU's you can get up a hair past 300W. Wattage calculators use peak numbers, and you're rarely in a situation where all the parts draw peak load at the same time.

It sounds like you just had a lame power supply. I have a Vantec Ion2 450W that I'm certain could have handled the load.

Edit: Going back over your system configuration, I'm certain the Ion2 450W could have handled your load, plus a second graphics card of the same power! You really DO have a lame power supply!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Crashman on 09/18/05 06:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
September 18, 2005 10:27:56 PM

you really think that the power supply is just not working well, not putting up all the wattages? could you tell me the spec. of your hardware, i wanna see what this 450watt of your psu is powering up? thank you.
a b V Motherboard
September 18, 2005 10:37:13 PM

So far I've powered up a P4 530, two SATA hard drives, one ATA100 7200RPM hard drive, a GeForce 6800GT, a Radeon AIW X800XL, a DVD burner, DVD-ROM, SCSI card, three SCSI drives, two Ballistix PC5300 CAS3 modules at 2.1v, and 0 system fans (open case), using an nForce4 SLI (P4 version) motherboard.

I've also powered those parts on a Socket 939 platform, using an AIW X800 XT rather than XL, PC4000, and an A64 3200+ overclocked by 20%

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b V Motherboard
September 18, 2005 10:38:23 PM

BTW, for stress testing I connected/disconnected drives to check for voltage surge under amperage spikes.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 18, 2005 10:47:51 PM

pretty nice psu you got there, i'll check what Vantec has for there power supply, i might buy one from them. thank you.
a b V Motherboard
September 18, 2005 11:00:24 PM

Yes, I have a lot of parts here I do testing with, my personal machine is using completely lesser parts because...I don't need them :tongue:

But I've shelved the Vantec Ion2 because it's not as efficient as my Antec Phantom 500. I do have to pay electric bills.

Since I'm testing parts, it's my duty to put an unreasonable load on them. Check out THG for a comparison of power supplies also, Fortron Source is offering the best power/price ratio in a quality power supply.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 18, 2005 11:04:47 PM

you know when my friend came and he bought with him the volt meter, we checked every wire, and all had some current, but the 24 pin did not register with having nothing or too low like maybe 1 volt or something like that. we though that maybe only power goes to the 24pin only when the motherboard is turned on, or should it have current running through it weather motherboard is on or off. what do you think?
a b V Motherboard
September 18, 2005 11:14:34 PM

1v is quite a bit off. As for the rails, some stay on while most turn off, when the system is switched off at the motherboard.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 18, 2005 11:27:16 PM

I dont' know if this is the case with this power supply or not. to tell you the truth maybe when the powersupply was off i think the 24pin had 0 volts, i think, i don't queit remember. but i know for sure it did not have a 12v or anything like that, i could be wrong, i got to call my friend to ask him that question. it could be like you said, maybe the 24pin rail turns off when the motherboard is off. so who knows what is going on with this psu.
a b V Motherboard
September 19, 2005 12:39:10 AM

Actually it's a 24-pin connector, it's tied to several rails, 3.3v, 5v, 5vsb, one of the 12v rails, etc. Most rails are off, one or two are on, when the system is shut down.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 19, 2005 3:36:15 AM

on power supplies when they say dual+12V rails meaning what, that it has a 4pin and 8pin(EPS12v)?

thank you.
a b V Motherboard
September 19, 2005 4:10:57 AM

No. It means the power supply is providing a separate rail for the CPU. It might also be providing that same rail to the PCI-Express supplemental power header (6-pin).

The Ion 2 does not have an 8-pin output, but it does have 4-pin and 6-pin.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 20, 2005 2:05:30 PM

btw, this is what the asus technical guy send me on e-mail.

"Power can also be a factor when you are having a no post/no video situation as each power supply manufacturer differs in the way they rate their wattages you can have huge difference in the actual amount of power the power supply can push out. When choosing a power supply the best method would be to check the side of the power supply under DC output and verify what each of the voltage rails can distribute. We recommend that the +3.3 voltage rail which powers your cpu and your video card can supply at least 28 amps, the +5 voltage rail which powers up all of the IC chips on your motherboard be able to supply at least 35 amps, the +12 voltage rail which powers all drives and fans be able to supply at least 18-20 amps and the +5VSB which will be the determining factor for bringing your system out of standby mode be able to supply at least 2 amps."

on my power supply these are the numbers:
+3.3V = 26/35A
+5V = 47/61A
+12V = 28A
+5V-SB= 2.0A

the values on the power supply seemed to be fine. it could be that the power supply it self is defective. I don't know how this asus tech got these numbers, but those are the numbers that he presented.

is there a good store or online store that sales power supplies for a reasonable price?

thank you.
September 20, 2005 3:18:58 PM

Quote:
you know when my friend came and he bought with him the volt meter, we checked every wire, and all had some current, but the 24 pin did not register

As Crash says, there are basically 3 different voltages in that plug - 12V, 5V, and 3.3V.

To measure them with a voltmeter requires the psu to be on. You can turn it on by just using a piece of wire or paperclip to connect the GREEN wire in the plug (there will only be one) to any BLACK wire. Then you can leave the negative (BLACK) terminal of the voltmeter shoved into any BLACK wire in a spare molex connector (the 4-pin ones used by most drives), and use the other probe to check the other voltage lines:
(someone correct me if I'm wrong of course!):
YELLOW = 12V
RED = 5V
ORANGE = 3.3V

Unfortunately this is testing the PSU without any load on it, so the voltages may drop some in actual usage, but it would at least show if there's current in all the places there should be.

---
<pre> (\_/)
|~~~~~|======
|_____| This was bunny. He was tasty.
/\/\/\/\</pre><p>
a b V Motherboard
September 20, 2005 9:11:12 PM

As he also said, every power supply manufacturer has a different way to rate them, 28A might mean 28A for 1/10 second or 28A for 10 minutes. Anyway, it's possible just to get a bad power supply due to quality control issues or random parts failures.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 21, 2005 10:05:17 PM

I think this power supply should be good enough for my pc, right? Antec SmartPower 2.0 500 watt. the only power i don't know how many 4 pin connecters this powersupply has. i know i need one for my dvd-rw and three for my case fans, and these fans and dvd-rw and the 4pin wire. so how many does this powersupply have?

thank you.
a b V Motherboard
September 21, 2005 10:41:42 PM

I'd take a look at photos from Newegg. You can use splitters for low-power devices and even some moderate power devices, your fans could all be put on the same cable for example.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 21, 2005 10:57:20 PM

do you think this power supply will do a good job in powering up my computer? the pricing for this seems to be reasonable, at around 70 dollars.
a b V Motherboard
September 21, 2005 11:21:17 PM

I'd trust it.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 22, 2005 2:22:36 AM

"We recommend that the +3.3 voltage rail which powers your cpu and your video card can supply at least 28 amps, the +5 voltage rail which powers up all of the IC chips on your motherboard be able to supply at least 35 amps" this is what the asus tech said. on the power supply that i have it says "+3.3V and +5V max output 235W peak surge max output 605", could this be the problem. that it's only giving 235w for the cpu and the motherboards chips?
a b V Motherboard
September 22, 2005 2:51:49 AM

The CPU gets supplemental power from the 12v rail, that's what ATX12v was designed for. I really don't see any problems. I've done extensive stress testing on a 500W Antec and haven't had any issues.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b V Motherboard
September 22, 2005 2:53:06 AM

BTW, you're seeing outrageous sounding power recommendations simply because so many power supplies don't live up to their ratings.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 22, 2005 2:58:54 AM

oh, so the cpu is getting power from both 3.3v and 12v, so this tech guy was wrong?
a b V Motherboard
September 22, 2005 3:06:24 AM

Systems I've tested wouldn't even power on the CPU unless the ATX 12v line was connected. Really! Everything EXCEPT the CPU powers on, and the system sits with the fans running and nothing happening, hung at CPU initialization.

So I'm not going to insult the tech, I'm just going to give you the straight scoop. BTW, I've overclocked my 530 to 3.8GHz+ at 1.52v using dual video cards on an Antec 500W, and it didn't even get to full stress (going by the heat regulated fan).

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 22, 2005 3:08:48 AM

uuuum, i see what you mean now. you said that you overclocked your cpu to 3.8ghz with antec 500w, exactly which antec to you own? thank you.
a b V Motherboard
September 22, 2005 3:16:47 AM

You can read the review at <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/features/cases/" target="_new">Sysopt</A>. Both my power supplies are reviewed there. Same equipment, except I didn't get the SLI P4 board until last week, so I had to use my AGP+PCIe AMD board for those reviews.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 22, 2005 3:20:15 AM

i know you have the vantec, so you also have the phantom 500, i mean i would buy that, but that thing is freaking expensive, it's around the 100s. But it's pretty good, i'm guessing thats what you used to overclock your processor.
a b V Motherboard
September 22, 2005 5:30:22 AM

Yes, I'm using it because it's 7% more efficient than the Vantec, which means over 20% less wastefull when you base your math around the waste current rather than usefull current. Its efficiency is even more pronounced compared to power supplies that are less efficient than the Vantec.

I'll probably put the Vantec in my own system and leave the Antec for benchmarks. My bench system draws more power, so Antec power savings would be more usefull there. The Vantec removes enough case heat that I can use it in my own system without added exhaust fans.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
September 23, 2005 12:52:05 AM

I really like the Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP500 500watts, One reason would be because it's 500watts, second would be that you just plug in the wires that you need which leaves alot of space in my chass. But my problem is that i'm afriad that it might not power up my computer just like my other 500 watts PSU. do you suggest a way that i can check that this is good enough power for me. you already know my specs from the first post.
a b V Motherboard
September 23, 2005 1:15:23 AM

My experience with power supplies shows that high-quality 450W and larger supplies are nearly impossible to overload under nearly any hardware the typical user would add to his system.

But I don't give garuntees, only suggestions. I think that any of the good quality power supplies of 500W or larger will do, while cheaper supplies won't even at a 600W rating.

BTW, there's always a risk of getting a faulty unit, and sometimes fans do fail.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
!