dantom

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So here’s the situation. I recently helped to build a computer for my dad, with the expertise of my best friend J.M. We had some issues getting it up and running, one problem being with the mobo drivers for the SATA hard drive. It is an ASUS brand model P5S800-VM mobo. As far as I knew ASUS was reliable for making good products. We couldn’t get the SATA drivers to install, which incidentally came on a CD instead of a necessary floppy disk. I called their help line because after extracting the correct drivers from the CD and putting them on a floppy, they still did not work! Their employees passed me around from one department to the next, and eventually hung up on me. I felt loved (not!). So J.M., in his mastery, managed to figure out that the driver files and folders were IMPROPERLY NAMED. The exact name scheme was hard coded (which it should not have been), and ASUS programmers failed to follow the proper name scheme. Thus, their drivers wouldn’t work. Thankfully J.M. managed, and all went well for a while.
More problems arose with my dad’s machine, which upon return to J.M. were undoubtedly fixed, with one exception. The cooling fan to the processor, a P4 3.4 GHz Prescott, was running at around 5,000 rpms even though the temperature was at about 45-50 degrees. We had this problem at one other time and managed to fix it with a Bios update. Here’s where the fun begins. J.M. just couldn’t connect to the ASUS web server so he left that up to my dad. Dad called ASUS for instructions on the Bios update. They simply told him to take the file, unzip it, copy it to a floppy and install the update. He asked the guy on the phone to walk him through it, and the ASUS worker refused. Dad then just repeated the instructions he was told, just to be sure, and the employee said his instructions were correct. The install has destroyed his Bios, and the computer will not start. Thanks to ASUS in their infinite wisdom. Turns out, that my dad found bios update instructions all too late, and was supposed to have RENAMED THE FILES before the install !!! Sounds familiar doesn’t it.
So Dad called ASUS and told them about the problem. This employee said that he would have a new bios chip sent to him, and would e-mail the tracking # to him. Of course, this never happened. Dad called a few days later, and there was no record of a new chip getting sent to my dad. They just lied to him. Every time dad calls ASUS, he gets passed from one person to the next, with no results. Every time he gets to their “bios department” he gets voicemail, and never gets a returned call. Could they be giving him the “run-around”, I think so. Just like when we needed help for the SATA drivers. As you might expect, my dad is thoroughly frustrated with ASUS and their antics. With such a good name, we expect good service.
I originally chose the mobo because it was one of the few 775 chipsets with AGP support on the board. Most of the other mobos use the newer video card slot. I guess I’d like some advice or pointers for the best fix for this computer. In all sincerity, thank you for your time.
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
Ah, well, your first mistake was to try pairing up AGP with 775. Had you gone with any reasonably decent hardware to begin with, you wouldn't have had the driver issue. Going back to Socket 478, 875 and 865 chipsets didn't require a special driver for SATA. Intel's 9x series chipsets (915, 925, 945...955, etc) don't either. Neither do the nForce4 SLI chipsets for Intel. Heck, I even have a bottom of the barrel ATI chipset board (socket 775 with AGP for cripes sake) that doesn't require special Serial ATA drivers to load Windows XP.

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Sorry for your ASUS problems, Wusy will be happy I'm sure, He hates ASUS!

We couldn’t get the SATA drivers to install, which incidentally came on a CD instead of a necessary floppy disk.

All M/B manufactureres send the drivers on the installation CD as far as I know, with it being your responsibility to write them to a Floppy if you need them, but its best to download the most up to date drivers from the website anyway!

Some M/Bs have CMOS settings that allow SATA normal IDE function, with SATA drivers only needed to run a RAID configuration, I'm not sure about your particular M/B.


Here’s where the fun begins. J.M. just couldn’t connect to the ASUS web server so he left that up to my dad. Dad called ASUS for instructions on the Bios update.

And heres where you're not going to like my post!
J.M. should have never left it up to your dad to Flash the M/B BIOS chip!

Flashing a M/B BIOS chip is serious business and should only be done by someone that knows what they're doing period, of course you now know that with a hard learned lesson! Even those of us that know what they're doing get into situations sometimes and have to know how to get out of them, the main point is even a failed BIOS flash is recoverable until you turn off the computer, once you turn off the computer the BIOS chip is toast.

Every M/B manufacturers website has warnings about flashing your BIOS, its the most serious thing you will ever do to your M/B, definitely not something to be taken lightly, and if you flash your BIOS you're taking the responsibility upon yourself to get it right!

You're going to have to RMA the M/B back to ASUS so they can fix the BIOS for you, thats the normal procedure, the more time you waste not following that suggestion, the more time you'll be without a repaired M/B!

For future reference when you talk to anyone at any M/B manufacturer get the employees name you're talking to first, if they know their suggestions can be tracked back to them, you will normally get excellent results.

It appears from your post though that all the blame doesn't fall on ASUS's shoulders! Sorry!
 

pat

Expert
First of all, if it is an upgrade from an older system, I hope that your PSU is at least 400W and good quality.. Anything lower than that will likely cause problem.

Now, I would rather put the blame on you, instead of Asus. I did install a lot of motherboard inmy life, and I always found the information that I was looking for in the manual. To me, it always make sense to fully read (even the pages with the BIOS options) it BEFORE attempting to install it. It seem to me that you rather prefer to rely to your friend JM, which don't seem to know a lot.

But I can understand your frustration. First, I sincerly doubt that you ever need drivers for SATA. It can be the case, but on SIS motherboard, for A64 , SATA drives installed windows right on. Unless the HDD was alreadyt in a RAID system before installation, which once give me some trouble. Fully crearing the drive with utility like Maxblast did the trick. A trip to you HDD motherboard manuf. web site will give you tools to prepare and install your HDD.

Second, Asus provide an utility for this board call: Crash free BIOS. from Asus web sit:

"
ASUS CrashFree BIOS2
"The CrashFree BIOS2 feature now includes the BIOS auto-recovery function in a support CD. Users can reboot their system through the support CD when a bootable disk is not available, and go through the simple BIOS auto-recovery process.
P5S800-VM enables users to enjoy this protection feature without the need to pay for an optional ROM. "
"

My question is, did you try this procedure. It is explained in the manual. Maybe you simply blindly followed friend and tech advices.. Hey, there is so many motherboard on the market that someone pretending knowing them all from A to Z without the need for the manual simply call for catastrophe. You dont simply look at the manual, but READ it. All.

Turns out, that my dad found bios update instructions all too late, and was supposed to have RENAMED THE FILES before the install !!! Sounds familiar doesn’t it.

Yes, it seem familiar that you simply did not read the manual first, but rather using it after problem appears.

Now, for your problem. First, remove any unnecessary component. Leave only CPU, RAM, and use onboard video. Look at the manual for info about how to clear the BIOS. It is supposed to be done with a jumper. You have to unplug the power from the wall for a few minutes and move the jumper, or remove the battery. 3-4 minutes should be ok. Now, plug it back and give it a try. If you still have problem, try the crashfrre recovery for your BIOS.

If you have the system up and running, then update the BIOS(I just went to Asus web site and seen the latest BIOS as well as a nice how to update help),and once done,reset the BIOS again, power off and plug back the HDD, cdrom and floppy drive and try it again. Make sure the floppy cable is not plugged backward. Now, all you devices should be detected at post screen. Start the install, and dont press F6. If you dont see the HDD, then go to your HDD manuf. web site with another computer and download utility for you drive. According to the HDD utility, you may have a boot disk or need one to use the utility. Have the utility run and prepare your drive. And try again to install.

This chipset support natively SATA devices, so no need for any third party for install. If you still run into problem, just bring the system to a local shop, and have it started for you, you may end up paying, but it can be the only solution if nobody have the experience to do it.


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Very good post Pat! But if the BIOS chip has been wiped clean in prep for the new flash and the failure occured during the write, and they powered down the machine it may be a dead issue period, they'll know for sure when they follow your instructions and clear the CMOS. If they cannot get back into the system they won't be able to do anything.




<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by 4ryan6 on 10/27/05 12:10 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

pat

Expert
Asus crash free BIOS is supposed to simply reflash the BIOS with the original one. It is a different part of the BIOS, IIRC, that is not destroyed by Flashing, so ensuring that there will be always a minimal booting option to recover.

Unless Asus screw on that one, but I doubt. I'll never have to use it thou ...

(\__/)
(=<font color=red><b>˚</b></font color=red>.'=)
(")ώ(") This is my bunny..terminator!!!
 

pat

Expert
And by the way, I just installed a new motherboard in an old Intel system. An Asus P4P800. I took the time to read the manual, and learned a lot about how to set up the mobo. I learnt that with older OS, like Win98, when you enable SATA, then one PATA controller wont be working, but will work good with newer OS, like XP. And how to set SATA controller... and...

I like those manual...

(\__/)
(=<font color=red><b>˚</b></font color=red>.'=)
(")ώ(") This is my bunny..terminator!!!
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
On top of that, he said something about having to rename the file, which is never the case. I bet he tried to flash the ZIP file.

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pat

Expert
Usually, you dont have, but Asus web site seem to indicate just that. I did not download anything, cause of I'm on dialup, so I cannot say for sure what is the correct stepo to do that.

(\__/)
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(")ώ(") This is my bunny..terminator!!!
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
094/538 Has anyone noticed all the little misteps Asus has been taking have added up to a big blunder for around half of their products?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
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pat

Expert
I don't know what the 094/538 means, but I did notice that Asus has put some problematic piece of motherboard lately, and seem busy by correcting them with multitude of BIOS release.. especially for their A8N serie..

(\__/)
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dantom

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i see that many of you didn't pay attention to my posting when you read it.
1. i know that you shouldn't have to rename the files before the install of the update. THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH THIS MOBO. THIS IS ONE OF THE MANY REASONS I'M TICKED OFF.
2. when you attempt to boot up the machine, you can push the button to go into setup, AND NOTHING HAPPENS. BIOS IS DEAD.
3. Dad followed instructions FROM THE HELP LINE FROM ASUS'S OFFICE. 99.99% of the time, you don't have to rename the files before installing the drivers!! NOBODY COULD HAVE KNOWN THAT!!! It's just a universal standard.
4. To install a SATA drive and install XP, you must first install SATA DRIVERS, BECAUSE XP HAS NO SATA DRIVERS. if you don't know this, then obviously, you've never done a clean install of XP on a SATA drive.
5. Dad has been trying to get ASUS to SIMPLY COOPERATE, AND THEY ARE REFUSING!!!!!! Not difficult to understand. HE CALLS THEM, THEY DO NOTHING!!!!! comprende?????
6. i'd put in more, but i have to go study for my next pharmacy school exams.
7. I was looking for ideas, not idiotic and uneducated comments from people who know a lot less than they think about computers. I don't know squatt about computers, and even i can see that most of you are amatures.
8. thank you and have a nice day.
 

dantom

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No Crashman, he unzipped the file first. Saved it to a floppy. installed update. no more bios. that simple. the files were supposed to be renamed, because ASUS made it that way. yes, it was the case, but has never been before.
 

dantom

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pay attention. It was just a simple bios update. Dad followed instructions directly from ASUS. therfore, they are liable. before that, the system was solid enough to burn a DVD and run 3D-mark 2004 simultaneously without a single error. We know how to build a computer. ASUS's error killed it. would you have known to rename the files before installing the simple bios update? i think not.
 

fishmahn

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* sits in the bleachers and passes out Coors to whoever wants to watch (while drinking Bailey's - anyone want a swig?) *

Mike.

PS: Dantom:
1) I don't know - it doesn't sound right, but I don't know that mobo, so I'll withhold comment.
2) That means the mobo needs to be a) RMA'd and sent back to ASUS; or b) ASUS needs to send you a new BIOS chip to install.
3) It seems to me that your dad got a dolt on the line from ASUS, who didn't know that a compressed file needed to be extracted before flashing.
4) Starting with nForce2/3 and the Intel 915/925 (maybe even 865/875), *NATIVE* SATA (sata ports on the chipset, as opposed to ports on a 3rd party controller like Silicon Image) do NOT need SATA drivers installed when the RAID is not being used. SATA is just an interface for IDE drives, and as such is built-into windows. If you used non-native ports, or have RAID enabled, then you need a driver.
5) We can't do anything about that. I'm sorry for your problems, but ranting at us won't do any good. Can I suggest moving up the ladder at Asus? i.e., if tech support won't help, a letter to the president might.
6) Good, I was getting tired of reading the rant anyways.
7) Good ideas were given (true there's a lot of people here who would rather be childish, but that doesn't mean they aren't trying). Including the only one that will do any good for you: RMA the board. As for your insults... well... I'm standing way back and will enjoy the fireworks soon to appear.
8) Calm down. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Enjoy.

PPS: Numerous stores have tech people who are paid (by you) to listen to your rantings. We try to help for free. I guess no good deed goes unpunished after all.

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dantom

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first of all, it was a brand new computer, with all new parts. the original power supply was cheap and was replaced with a 400W Antec. there are no power issues. too little power = dead power supply.

Flashing bios is normally a very simple process, which in this case was made stupid by ASUS.

J.M. is the Head Product Manager for a software company which sells an excess of $100 million annually (that would be programing). he's been tinkering with computers for fun for years, and i know he's more knowledgeable than 95% of computer gurus. but that's not the issue.

I think we'll try the crash-free bios (Which sounds like an oxy-moron) Thank you much for this usefull idea. I'll let you know if it works or not.

we already tried the jumper method, it did not work.

My whole issue is the treatment from ASUS, they just don't care. A business like them should take better care of its customers. with this particular mobo, they screwed up big time. If they followed the common standard, which they do on most other mobo's, this would not have happened.
 

dantom

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Thank you Fishmahn,

1. we had to use SATA drivers because we were using the newer SATA cable instead of IDE. it required 3rd party drivers.
2. i appreciate your advice on the ranting, but it's not their comments, but more their IGNORANT comments.
3. yes, the file was unzipped. but the files weren't renamed, which is a stupid process created by the programmer(s). that was the fatal mistake. most experienced people would agree with that at least. having the file names hard coded in the programming, and then failing to name them properly when making the software is just plain stupid. How could such a company do something that dumb? I know nothing about programming, and even i know it's retarted.

Be well fishmahn, and keep enjoying your ethanol laced drinks!!
 

dantom

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Update,

All is now well.
New bios chip was installed. Computer runs fine. ASUS just didn't keep good records of the chip being sent .
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
Tell Asus to piss off and never do business with them again.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 
IRT SATA, what Fish was trying to explain is that there can be multiple sources for the SATA ports. Your particular board uses the SiS 661FX chipset and that chipset is providing the SATA ports - these are the native SATA ports that Fish was talking about. Motherboard mfrs can install additional SATA ports on their motherboards by using additional chips that they install on the motherboard - these would the non-native ports that Fish talked about. Your board doesn't have any non-native SATA ports, therefore you should not have needed to install drivers. An interesting note from your manual - page 37 -
Install the Windows 2000 service Pack 4 or the Windows XP Service Pack 1 or later before using Serial ATA.
[shrug]

*Steam rising*
|<font color=red>(\__/)</font color=red>|
|<font color=red>(='.'=)</font color=red>|
|<font color=red>(")_(")</font color=red>|
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BUNNY STEW FOR DINNER!!
 

pat

Expert
Sorry to dissapoint you, but yes, I would have renamed the BIOS file as indicated on Asus web site. I worked with so many different brand to know that no one use the same technique and better read the update procedure before attempting any flashing than after. And most of the time, I download the latest revision of the manual on the web site. Often, well before getting the board. Maybe I,m too picky about procedure, but dealing with so many hardware pieces, without any level care would make me poor if I had to pay for devices I destroyed by mistake.

So, while I don't like Asus particularly, I cannot really blame them for the fact that you r dad did kill his BIOS. Because it is clearly written in the instructions. Yes I know it is hard for ego, but your dad have to take the blame on this case.

(\__/)
(=<font color=red><b>˚</b></font color=red>.'=)
(")ώ(") This is my bunny..terminator!!!
 
*takes Coors from Fish*
Can I get a shot of the Bailey's? Or better yet, do you have any Jamesons?

*Steam rising*
|<font color=red>(\__/)</font color=red>|
|<font color=red>(='.'=)</font color=red>|
|<font color=red>(")_(")</font color=red>|
~~~~~
BUNNY STEW FOR DINNER!!
 

pat

Expert
I just read the manual for an Asus motherboard, and the bios renaming thing is only if you want to use the ez-flash feature, that allow to flash without a boot floppy. The ez-flash utility seems to be in the BIOS and look for a specific files on the floppy. So, if you download the latest bios, you have to rename it to the standard filename for the utility to use it. But, if you use the dos falsh utility, then it can be any name.. Clearly written in the manual... I guess that he renamed the zip file to the bios name and flashed it...

(\__/)
(=<b>˚</b>.'=)That was my bunny..terminator!!! Now terminated...
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
Any board that low-end shouldn't be carrying the Asus name anyway...that's what Asrock was invented for!

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