how many connection can I have?

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I have the Linksys WRK54G. I'm wondering just how many wireless connections
I can make to the router at the same time if I have all the wired LAN ports
filled and being used.

--
kd
7 answers Last reply
More about connection have
  1. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    news wrote:

    > I have the Linksys WRK54G. I'm wondering just how many wireless
    > connections I can make to the router at the same time if I have all the
    > wired LAN ports filled and being used.
    >

    253!
    There can be 254 hosts in a class C subnet and the router is the first them.

    Thomas
  2. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    Thomas Krüger wrote:
    > news wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have the Linksys WRK54G. I'm wondering just how many wireless
    >>connections I can make to the router at the same time if I have all the
    >>wired LAN ports filled and being used.
    >>
    >
    >
    > 253!
    > There can be 254 hosts in a class C subnet and the router is the first them.
    >
    > Thomas

    Have you ever tried to connect 254 wireless devices to a Linksys router?
    I think it fall down and go boom much sooner.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:26:52 -0500, Rôgêr <abuse@your.isp.com> wrote:

    >Thomas Krüger wrote:

    >> news wrote:

    >>>I have the Linksys WRK54G. I'm wondering just how many wireless
    >>>connections I can make to the router at the same time if I have all the
    >>>wired LAN ports filled and being used.

    >> 253!
    >> There can be 254 hosts in a class C subnet and the router is the first them.
    >> Thomas

    >Have you ever tried to connect 254 wireless devices to a Linksys router?
    >I think it fall down and go boom much sooner.

    I have. It can be simulated by randomizing the clients MAC address
    (BSSID) which simulates multiple client connections. Most of the
    older cheapo access points and wireless routers barf at 32 MAC
    addresses total (including the access point itself). One piece of
    junk firmware would only do 8 MAC addresses until it was finally fixed
    just before the product was killed. A few will do about 50 addresses
    for some unknown reason. If you have a limited range of DHCP
    assignable IP addresses, most routers will allocate as many IP
    addresses as available, and then refuse to associate or to issue any
    more IP's until either reset or DHCP times out. Some current access
    points, such as the WRT54G and WAP54G will do 253 clients. The WRK54G
    is a stripped down version of the WRT54G and should have similar
    specs.

    The Proxim, Orinico, Avaya, Wavelan, Agere, Lucent, whatever access
    points will do 1024 or 2048 depending one whether it's a 1 or 2 card
    access point. More important, they seem to have a functional "least
    recently used" algorithm for expiring stale associations and DHCP
    entries. I couldn't hang or kill any of these I tested. However, I
    did manage to screw up the DHCP server and where it would not give out
    any more IP addresses until table entries were available. This seemed
    to be timer based, were nothing would happen for about 10
    minutes(???), and then a huge number of IP addresses were suddenly
    available. This is not a problem as the probability of having 1024
    users simultaneously try to associate is rather limited.

    For reference, the 253 comes from:
    The maximum addresses available is 256 (.0 thru .255). .255 is used
    as the broadcast address. .0 is the entire network and not useable.
    ..1 is usually the access point itself.
    256 - 3 = 253
    Now, if you want some fun, setup the range of DHCP assignable IP
    addresses to cover the entire .0 thru .255 range and start consuming
    DHCP assignable IP addresses. For a while, one vendors firmware would
    merrily pass out .0 .255 and the address of the access point when it
    ran out of IP addresses. This was fixed but only after various hot
    spot operators ran into the problem as they really might have over 253
    potential users in crowded conventions, ball parks, and such.


    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    # jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    # 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
  4. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:26:52 -0500, Rôgêr <abuse@your.isp.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Thomas Krüger wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>news wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>>I have the Linksys WRK54G. I'm wondering just how many wireless
    >>>>connections I can make to the router at the same time if I have all the
    >>>>wired LAN ports filled and being used.
    >
    >
    >>>253!
    >>>There can be 254 hosts in a class C subnet and the router is the first them.
    >>>Thomas
    >
    >
    >>Have you ever tried to connect 254 wireless devices to a Linksys router?
    >>I think it fall down and go boom much sooner.
    >
    >
    > I have. It can be simulated by randomizing the clients MAC address
    > (BSSID) which simulates multiple client connections. Most of the
    > older cheapo access points and wireless routers barf at 32 MAC
    > addresses total (including the access point itself). One piece of
    > junk firmware would only do 8 MAC addresses until it was finally fixed
    > just before the product was killed. A few will do about 50 addresses
    > for some unknown reason. If you have a limited range of DHCP
    > assignable IP addresses, most routers will allocate as many IP
    > addresses as available, and then refuse to associate or to issue any
    > more IP's until either reset or DHCP times out. Some current access
    > points, such as the WRT54G and WAP54G will do 253 clients. The WRK54G
    > is a stripped down version of the WRT54G and should have similar
    > specs.
    >
    > The Proxim, Orinico, Avaya, Wavelan, Agere, Lucent, whatever access
    > points will do 1024 or 2048 depending one whether it's a 1 or 2 card
    > access point. More important, they seem to have a functional "least
    > recently used" algorithm for expiring stale associations and DHCP
    > entries. I couldn't hang or kill any of these I tested. However, I
    > did manage to screw up the DHCP server and where it would not give out
    > any more IP addresses until table entries were available. This seemed
    > to be timer based, were nothing would happen for about 10
    > minutes(???), and then a huge number of IP addresses were suddenly
    > available. This is not a problem as the probability of having 1024
    > users simultaneously try to associate is rather limited.
    >
    > For reference, the 253 comes from:
    > The maximum addresses available is 256 (.0 thru .255). .255 is used
    > as the broadcast address. .0 is the entire network and not useable.
    > .1 is usually the access point itself.
    > 256 - 3 = 253
    > Now, if you want some fun, setup the range of DHCP assignable IP
    > addresses to cover the entire .0 thru .255 range and start consuming
    > DHCP assignable IP addresses. For a while, one vendors firmware would
    > merrily pass out .0 .255 and the address of the access point when it
    > ran out of IP addresses. This was fixed but only after various hot
    > spot operators ran into the problem as they really might have over 253
    > potential users in crowded conventions, ball parks, and such.
    >
    Correct me if I'm wrong (no big leap in logic there) but it seems as
    though you are discussing more theoretical connections, even if you
    actually were generating connections. I mean, 253 real world users
    actually attempting to use the net at the same time? No hidden node
    problems? No extremely high collisions? All this without polling software?
  5. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:03:27 -0500, Rôgêr <abuse@your.isp.com> wrote:

    >Correct me if I'm wrong (no big leap in logic there) but it seems as
    >though you are discussing more theoretical connections, even if you
    >actually were generating connections. I mean, 253 real world users
    >actually attempting to use the net at the same time? No hidden node
    >problems? No extremely high collisions? All this without polling software?

    I was generating 253 simulated connections (associations) with
    corresponding DHCP delivered IP addresses. However, there was only
    traffic from one IP address at a time. That's not a very realistic
    test for real world conditions. Conventional wisdom and rule of thumb
    is that the average WISP access point can handle per channel:
    100 casual users checking email and light web browsing.
    10 business users doing whatever business users do.
    1 teenage Napster/Kazaa/Bearshare/Morpheus/whatever user.
    As you may notice, it's not the number of connections, but what
    they're doing (i.e. traffic pattern).

    I've done traffic load tests in a laboratory environment using about
    40 computahs. It was quite a mess and I spent much of my time dealing
    with issues that had nothing to do with wireless loading. The plan
    was to optimize some timing, flow control, and retrans algorithms. I
    spent the first hour dealing with two of the machines that apparently
    had a worm and were generating lots of junk traffic. The next hour
    was spent changing the SSID to something that wasn't duplicated
    elsewhere in the lab. Another 30 minutes or so was spend disarming
    the screen blankers and power save features that kept shutting down
    the laptops and PC's at inconvenient times. This type on nonsense
    went on all afternoon. I finally got about 2 hours of testing done.
    Not enough to do a decent job, but enough to check for obvious
    problems. No real problems. Bandwidth distributed itself equally
    between active computahs as expected.

    I also got the chance to test the effectiveness of CTS/RTS flow
    control. Didn't make any difference in aggregate thruput since there
    were no hidden nodes in the lab. Everyone could hear everyone else so
    there were no collisions. So much for that test.

    I once did some modeling to see at what point polling (i.e. Karlnet
    TurboCell, 802.11e (draft spec), 802.11 PCF (point coordination
    function, etc) schemes were beneficial. My seat of the pants
    guess(tm) is that about when about 20% of the active clients qualify
    as hidden nodes, polling is highly beneficial. It doesn't take many
    collisions to screw things up. Probably somewhat beneficial at
    smaller number of hidden nodes. In general, outdoor networks should
    use polling (or flow control) while indoor networks can get away with
    CSMA/CA. For point to multipoint, where the clients all have
    directional antennas, flow control is manditory and polling is highly
    benificial, since none of the clients can hear any of the other
    clients.


    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    # jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    # 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
  6. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:26:00 -0500, in alt.internet.wireless , "news"
    <news@usenet.net> wrote:

    >I have the Linksys WRK54G. I'm wondering just how many wireless connections
    >I can make to the router at the same time if I have all the wired LAN ports
    >filled and being used.

    The router can NAT 253 addresses, so theoretically ~249 or so.

    Practically tho, most consumer wireless units fall over WAY before that and
    remember each one gets 1/Nth of the total wireless bandwidth.
    --
    Mark McIntyre
    CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
    CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

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  7. I know that this post is really old, but I just thought I would put my two cents in. We are using a Linksys WRK54G at my work to get around the fire wall. We kill it almost every day and we only have 11 people connecting to it so I wouldn't count on pushing it much past that.

    Anonymous said:
    Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    I have the Linksys WRK54G. I'm wondering just how many wireless connections
    I can make to the router at the same time if I have all the wired LAN ports
    filled and being used.

    --
    kd
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