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which network u connected

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Anonymous
November 23, 2004 8:27:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Hi jeff,

Actually why I am asking the same thing in different ways bcos I did
not get the answer upto the mark.Most of them are not to the point and
also contradict each other.so now I am asking for the last time with
details about my project.

Basically it is a real time project.the project is of desktop appl
type.
The appl I made can be downloaded by a person(basically for wireless
device users like laptop) through net.Then my database keep the record
of the person by registering him.Then if that person again login then
my appl have to identify him.

The main part of my appl is I have to provide all the near by access
points to the person who logging in to my appl automatically.
Actually my idea is to find out first the access point the person
connected to currently so by taking that location I can get all the
access points with a radius of 200 miles from that location and provide
the information to the user.
For this I have to maintain one access point database also for the
entire world.

So if u have any suggestion in this proj then pls give me the details.

Thanks
jiten


--
jiten dash
brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com/

More about : network connected

Anonymous
November 23, 2004 1:33:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:27:23 GMT, jiten dash
<jiten.dash.1g5s3m@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote:

>Actually why I am asking the same thing in different ways bcos I did
>not get the answer upto the mark.Most of them are not to the point and
>also contradict each other.so now I am asking for the last time with
>details about my project.

Ask an attorney or a doctor a question, and you will NEVER get a
single answer. You will get a range of options and choices. If
pressed, you may also get guesses. Nobody will answer "this is the
only way" unless they are also selling the same solution. It's your
responsibility to decide which answer is best for you. I thought
several of the suggestions (especially mine) were quite good.

Data is free. You have to work for information.
(Me about 1975)

>Basically it is a real time project. the project is of desktop appl
>type.
>The appl I made can be downloaded by a person(basically for wireless
>device users like laptop) through net. Then my database keep the record
>of the person by registering him. Then if that person again login then
>my appl have to identify him.

This is called tracking software. It already exists and comes in many
flavours for several purposes. One is laptop theft control. The
laptop contains a hidden application that calls home when connected to
the internet. If the laptop is stolen and used, the application
records as much information as can be delivered to the central server,
which may be sufficient to locate the stolen laptop.
http://www.ztrace.com
http://www.absolute.com
This may give you some ideas.

Another is a form of spyware that tracks your browsing habits but can
also send a users local IP address, traceroute, etc. If you're
planning such a product, I don't want to have anything to do with it.

>The main part of my appl is I have to provide all the near by access
>points to the person who logging in to my appl automatically.

There is NOTHING that a hot spot user can do to determine their own
location using only a laptop. Try it. With the computer in front of
you, try to determine your own location. You can determine the ISP's
gateway IP address and do a whois lookup to determine the ISP's
location, but that doesn't work very well. For example, my gateway IP
shows up as being in Santa Cruz, while I'm in Ben Lomond, 13 miles
away. Not even close.

Basically, the hot spot, access point, location server, or whatever,
will need to disclose its location to the user using some protocol. I
sent you reference to an RFC that does exactly that via DHCP. All you
need to do is convince all the access point manufacturers to support
the protocol, or find some way to simulate it.

>Actually my idea is to find out first the access point the person
>connected to currently so by taking that location I can get all the
>access points with a radius of 200 miles from that location and provide
>the information to the user.

No problem, as long as you don't push this database into my laptop.
Build a huge database of hotspots, SSID's and lat-long. Let the user
VOLUNTARILY enter their location, and it will disclose a bunch of hot
spots. Getting the database together might be possible using existing
hot spot directories. Indexing might be difficult as half the hot
spots are named Linksys, Default, or something equally useless.

>For this I have to maintain one access point database also for the
>entire world.

There are many hot spot indexes on the web that have a good start.
You can do your own, buy their data, or do some war driving. I've
found many lists to be rather inaccurate. However, this part is
doable with a large staff and a substantial budget.

>So if u have any suggestion in this proj then pls give me the details.

You haven't explained how this thing is suppose to work. Does the
user enter their location or is it deduced somehow? To the best of my
limited imagination, there's no way for the laptop to locate itself
using conventional tools. Therefore, the user must enter their
current location. I like it that way anyways as privacy includes not
following me all over the place, which seems to be what you're
inventing.

Anyway, good luck. You might ask the stolen laptop vendors how they
find the stolen laptops as it's exactly the same problem.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 12:33:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

jiten dash <jiten.dash.1g5s3m@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote:
>so now I am asking for the last time with
>details about my project.

You then detail several things this project is trying to do:

Make a desktop app available to a laptop for downloading.
Register users and allow them to log in.
Determine the physical location of a user.
Tell people the physical location of nearby access points
Maintain an AP location database for the entire world.

Does this sound about right?

Why don't you tell us the reason for this whole exercise, what the
user and company providing this service will each get out of your app,
and why they would want it, so we can get a handle on just what it is
you are trying to accomplish.

Jeff thinks you might be doing stolen laptop recovery or invading the
privacy of unsuspecting users, I think it sounds like the
authorization for a worldwide corporate AP network, someone else might
think you are trying to tie together a global list of open APs, others
might think this is a poorly defined homework assignment.

What is the end result of what you are trying to do?

IMHO, without owning all the APs and knowing their physical location,
and owning the infrastructure and authorization network tying them all
together, there's no way to get physical location the way you want.
!