VIAKT266 or AMD760

[Guest]

I read an update yesterday previewing VIA's 266bus DDR chipset for socket A boards. I was wondering if anyone know, which is going to be less expensive/better performance.

I do know that i've seen the statement that AMD put out the 760 as a solution until VIA got theirs out, but which will be better and when will VIA's be available?

Excellence isn't acheived overnight!

 

[IntelConvert]

Theoretically, the VIA KT266 chipset should easily outperform the AMD 760 chipset (as well as the ALiMagik1).

We won't know for sure for another few weeks, until the eval. boards show up at Tom's and other sites for review!

 

[yoda271828]

I actually read on quite a few sites (THG and Anandtech come to mind) that they didn't expect very much from the KT266. None of them really gave a reason. I just found it odd that they had such low expectations.

 

[Guest]

Yeah i heard from a friend that they don't expect much from it... What's up with that?

"Byte, Kilobyte, Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terrabyte, Pentabyte, Exabyte, Zettabyte, Yottabyte..."

 

[Guest]

Don't expect much from it?

Well then again I didn't expect much from that ambitious processor company a couple years ago. Wasn't it like "ADM" or something?

Excellence isn't acheived overnight!

 

[Guest]

Yeah... IBM turned out ok...

"Byte, Kilobyte, Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terrabyte, Pentabyte, Exabyte, Zettabyte, Yottabyte..."

 

[mwgorecki]

I am looking to upgrade in a few weeks and the AMD 760 chipset is my current choice. However, I hope the KT266 is out in time.

sz

 

[pvsurfer]

We should know for sure in just a couple of weeks (at the very most). However, you can get an indication of its performance by going <A HREF="http://www.ocworkbench.com" target="_new"> HERE</A>.

They have some preliminary benchmarks of a KT266 board today (3/22/01)!

 

[Guest]

Yeah Tom and several others have hinted that the KT266 isn't going to be the ultimate speed demon that many people hope. In fact Dr. Tom has pretty much said that, unless there are major changes, that the AMD 760 boards are going to hold the performance margins over the Ali or Via DDR boards.

Now I'm willing to bet that some of these guys have seen benchmarks with beta boards but are restricted in what they say by NDA agreements, but there could be other reasons. I can think of two, history and architecture.

History - People may forget, but compared Mhz to Mhz on memory speed (and the same memory technology) Via has always lagged behind Intel and AMD. Really, it is true. The only time Via took the performance crown was when they bumped themselves up to 133 MHZ SDRAM when everyone else was still using 100 MHZ SDRAM (read Intel and AMD). They did it with the processor running asynchronously (at 100 MHZ) and the memory running at the faster speed. Compare the old AMD 750 chipsets to the 100 MHZ based VIA solutions and you will find that AMD was faster. Guess what, this time around VIA isn't going to have the MHZ factor in their favor. Everyone will be running at the same memory speed. Dr. Tom has said repeatedly over the years that the guys that design the CPUs seem to have a better understanding of the memory timing issues with their CPUs than does VIA.

Architecture - it's all about overhead. Though some may crititicize the AMD platforms for only supporting DDR (no SDRAM upgrade path here) that is also why the AMD chipset holds an advantage. The need to support both DDR and SDRAM (as both Ali and Via are doing) complicates the board design and adds overhead to the whole system (makes it less efficient). This has been true every time someone has created a dual memory solution board (anyone remember those dual EDO and SDRAM boards? uggh).

The biggest ace the VIA has in their favor is that faster connection between their north and south bridges (forget their title for it) that is supposed to be introduced with this chipset. It is likely that we will only see it help on benchmarks with streaming media or other things that saturate that pathway, but there should be an advantage there.



A scientist will never show any kindness for a theory which he did not start himself. – Mark Twain

 

[pvsurfer]

While your post is certainly interesting, it is entirely speculative (as all posts re KT266 are at this point). I don't buy that Tom (or anyone else) has had the opportunity to test a KT266 board (yet). While I have not seen that remark by Tom that you aledge he made, I presume it was just speculation and nothing more...

 

[Guest]

Was I speculating? Yes, but it is based on VIAs track record. I didn't throw up any bogus specs or anything so I wasn't trying to be deceptive. Maybe VIA will pull a magic rabbit out the hat and go beyond their track record. Yes, we will have to wait and see.

"I don't buy that Tom (or anyone else) has had the opportunity to test a KT266 board (yet). While I have not seen that remark by Tom that you aledge he made, I presume it was just speculation and nothing more..."

Wrong. It is known that some KT266 beta boards are in the hands of some testers. Viahardware already posted a preview of their beta board: http://www.viahardware.com/kt266.shtm

A quote from page 3 of their article (Sysoft Sandra results): "Memory performance is a bit disappointing. The KT266 performed a tad slower then one of the faster KT133A's using PC133, and a tad faster using PC2100. However, all is not gloomy, as these numbers will surely improve in a final sample, designed by a motherboard company. The Pro266 gained nearly 20% in terms of memory performance somewhere in between beta and final, so there is reason to believe KT266 will, as well."

Admittedly this is a beta board and their comments about a final version being better are almost certainly true.

Here are some of Tom's comments that are pertinent:

From his summary portion of the AMD 760 motherboard review:
"But you might only be able to find the AMD chipset on the market for a short while. The Taiwanese chipset makers ALi and VIA are waiting in the wings to offer cheaper, but slower alternatives to the AMD-760."

From within the article:
"The future of AMD's 760 chipset remains unclear. Other chipset makers like ALi and VIA are ready to supply the market with large production capacities of their (so far inferior looking) DDR-solutions. Unfortunately the quality of Taiwanese chipsets has not reached the standard of AMD chipsets. In one respect, AMD has been unbeatable: Memory performance."



A scientist will never show any kindness for a theory which he did not start himself. – Mark Twain

 

[Kelledin]

Part of the reason people don't expect much from the VIA chipset is their track record, like you said. VIA has not been a great performer memory-wise.

Also, the AMD760 chipset gives an Athlon a synchronous DDR memory bus with very little getting between the memory and CPU; this is the best possible arrangement performance-wise. This is why the 440BX chipset has been such a solid performer for so long--because all the clocking is simple, with locked multipliers and purely synchronous memory. The arrangement's almost unbeatable for performance but rather inflexible for mix-and-match parts.

VIA is probably going to go with a memory subsystem running ansynchronous to the FSB, which will invariably introduce at least slight lag between the memory and the CPU. The VIA solution will have the advantage of being more flexible though.

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://kelledin.tripod.com/scovsms.jpg" target="_new">http://kelledin.tripod.com/scovsms.jpg</A>

 

[Booky]

Maybe I need to go back and read the info about the Via KT266 chip set. I was under the impression that it only supported DDR, not both DDR and SD like Ali. Ill go check it out. But if it does support only DD then it could verywell compete with AMD chip. But hey Im just doing what everyone else is doing, waiting to see what happenes.

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[Guest]

"I was under the impression that it only supported DDR"

Well the beta board reviewed by ViaHardware supported both DDR and SDRAM. They do make the case that some manufacturers will make DDR only boards with this chipset (4 banks of DDR) so that people can max out on DDR memory. Now whether this gets rid of the performance penalty of supporting the two types of memory, I'm not so sure. Since the dual memory support will already be built into the chipset, I don't know if the MB manufacturers can milk any extra performance by sticking with only one type on their boards.

I definitely agree with the post talking about synchronous memory and its advantages (Kelledin). That's something I missed in my post, but I was already long-winded and you stated it very well.

One other thing that may go in VIA's favor is that boards based on their chipset may be better for overclocking? So far most of the AMD 760 boards have had some limits on overclocking (though that may be fixed in future revisions). Guess we will see.

Just want to state that I'm not at war with VIA. They make a good product. Heck, all of the AMD 760 motherboards shipping in retail are using a VIA south bridge. If VIA is able to come out with a DDR solution that is the fastest, well then more power to them. Until then, I'll remain skeptical for the reasons already discussed.


A scientist will never show any kindness for a theory which he did not start himself. – Mark Twain<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DesertCat on 03/24/01 01:28 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Booky]

Do you have a link to that review? I just looked at the
www.viatech.com website and looked at the KT266. This is the manufacture web site right? And it only stated supporting DDR SDRAM, said nothing of standard SDRAM. But I would be more than willing to look at that review if you can get me a link. I tried to find it and couldn't.



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[Booky]

Anyone know other language? Looked like German but I couldn't tell. Anyway on aceshardware.com under the review of the Palemino, there is a link zdnet.de. It is a review of Gigabyte's new KT266 chip board the GA-7VXT. Well I couldn't understand it but it didn't look so good for the KT266. Please if someone knows that language, please let me know what exactly it says, ie. problems might be bios related. I really hope there BIOS related, that way they can be fixed still.

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[Guest]

Heheh. Well I did put the link to the viahardware site article in my previous post, but I guess it was a little deeply buried in text. Here ya go.

http://www.viahardware.com/kt266.shtm

BTW it is an independent site not associated with VIA.




A scientist will never show any kindness for a theory which he did not start himself. – Mark Twain

 

[lrmv]

Well it looks as if the KT266 has memory bandwidth problems. Not sure if this is bios related though...


<i><font color=purple>Running within specs is the key to a stable computer!</font color=purple></i>
<font color=red>LRMV</font color=red>

 

[noko]

The benchmarks and game test doesn't reflect SiSoft Saundra results. Could be an issue with SiSoft Sandra and the KT266 chipset, it wouldn't be the first time that Sisoft Saundra had a problem with a given chipset.

 

[Crashman]

Faced with a CHOICE, anyone who goes VIA is either STUPID or MASOCHISTIC! Look at all the problems they've had!
Now you actually have a choice. The AMD is a VERY high performance chipset, I don not think there is much more performance to be had with the T-Bird than the 760 can offer! Surely, since the AMD760 is already at the edge of performace perfection, a lowley company such as VIA will not beet it! Furthermore, VIA has little reguard for the end user as far as stability/ease of configuration goes, they have proven this time and time agian.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Booky]

OK Crashman im sold on the 760 chipset, now tell me where to get the MSI K7 Master! I will not buy the A7M266, for it had a very rough start and im not sure if it has all been worked out. Also if the K7 Master is good enough for toms power box then it is good enough for me. But where is the dam thing.

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[Crashman]

If you want the MSI k7 Master, you'll have to wait until it's available! Several venders claim it's on it's way...you could keep checking with Toms reviews, I think the bugs have been worked out of the A7M266. Then there's always the Biostar M7MIA.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Booky]

What about gigabyte GA-7DX? or the DFI board? I don't know how big of a difference the brand is other than name. I found one useing 761 for $144, I think it was DFI.

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[Crashman]

Be careful if you plan on overclocking, as many manufacturers do not use an adjustable clock multiplier, limiting your ability to overclock.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Booky]

No overclocking here, I just want a fast stable system, the way it was meant to be. No overstressing the stuff, hehe. Plus my wife would kill me if I accidently broke it. That the real reason hehe. Im putting another post up with my planned spec if you could look at it and see if you have see any issues that may arise. And maybe suggest weather I should wait for that K7 Master or go with something else.

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