Bad news for gamers.

[confoundicator]

Recently in the state of Washington (U.S., home of Boeing, Microsoft, Nintendo USA headquarters, Starbucks, and grunge for all non-U.S. folks) there was a law passed calling for a $500 fine for any video store clerk who rents (or sells) a video game to a person age 17 or younger that depicts any violence directed toward a public law enforcement officer. The law is scheduled to take effect in July. Free speech advocates have already filed lawsuits against the state to prevent the law from taking effect.

Reactions? Comments?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by confoundicator on 06/10/03 12:01 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[dhlucke]

Whatever. I'm older than 17 and if a 17 year old wants the game they'll have to get their parents to buy it. As long as we're going to have stupid R rated movies and nobody hollers, I don't see what the fuss is over this. A 17 year old is going to download the game off the net anyways. They aren't going to spend $50.

Personally I think they should get rid of all these stupid age restrictions. Sex, Movies, Bars, etc. How can you be old enough to vote and go to war but not old enough to go to a bar?

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<font color=blue>GOD</font color=blue> <font color=red>BLESS</font color=red> <font color=blue>AMERICA</font color=blue>

 

[skligmund]

Well, its like the big 'Parental Advisory' stickers on CD's. FUBAR, and unconstitutional. Weather somebody agrees with it or not, it is unconstitutional to put tha sticker on there if the artist does not want it on there. But now it has been so long since the original dispute, it seem normal and good to have those stickers. It is wrong, always will be wrong, and no matter how much somebody trys to convince me, I will always see it as wrong.

What are we going to do tonight Brain?
The same thing we do every night Pinky; <b>Try to take over the world!</b>
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[Steven21]

I found this article at Adrenaline Vault.com....

"The Interactive Digital Software Association has joined a number of retail and game development groups in filing a lawsuit in the U.S. District Court of Seattle challenging the constitutionality of a recently enacted Washington state statute seeking to ban the sale to minors of certain video games. The Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals earlier this week unanimously ruled that video games are a constitutionally protected form of expression - giving the IDSA hope to believe the Washington statute will be struck down as well. The lawsuit argues that the Washington statute is a content-based restriction on the dissemination of fully protected expression. The lawsuit also points out that the legislation targets only games with depictions of violence to "public law enforcement officers" - yet there's no definition of the term."

 

[confoundicator]

That looks nearly identical to the newspaper article I read (in Seattle). It must have come from one of the wire services.

There's a difference between this law and the rating systems used by the MPAA (movies) and RIAA (music). The difference is that the MPAA and RIAA use their rating systems voluntarily, in cooperation with the government, and there are no laws on the books enforcing them. The movie and music industries are in effect regulating themselves, but ultimately leaving responsiblility for the media that children consume to their parents (where it <i>should</i> be, IMHO). This law would place that responsibility on clerks working in video stores. One would think that the video games rating system currently in place would be enough, as all major software houses are already using it, and it is consistent with the systems used by other mass media (movies and music).

To me this smells like some senator who saw a political scapegoat for the problem of increased youth violence. "Let's demonize video games!" because "Video games are the cause of moral decay in America!" The bottom line is that you can't legislate morality.

But that's just what I think.

 

[skligmund]

Voluntarily? Just ask Dee Snider, John Denver and many bands of the late 80's. Why do you think they went to COURT over the issue? No, there is nothing voluntarily about the whole thing, except maybe inept groups like Metallica or something.

A lot of time and money was spent on trying to NOT have that sticker/rating put on albums, but the wives of the government officals must have denied them good sex if they didn't.

What are we going to do tonight Brain?
The same thing we do every night Pinky; <b>Try to take over the world!</b>
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[confoundicator]

I remember all of the PMRC madness you're talking about. Tipper Gore and a bunch of cabinet and senator's wives actually. People were pissed off about it so they stopped any actual laws from being passed outside of labeling. I think that's fair (at some point I think that labeling is good, just like food ingredients, like medical disclosures, like an R or X rated film, to inform the public on the content of a product is good I think). But they're treating it like alcohol or tobacco and trying to regulate it and that is bullshit. What's going on here won't fly as long as enough people know about it. Because if they know about it some of them (lawyers) are gonna be pissed about it and they'll stop it. So we'll end up with labeling. We already have it. Any rock band from the late eighties will tell you that they sold <i>more</i> records because it said "Parental Advisory: Adult Content" on it. Now all we have to do is sit back and watch.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Confoundicator on 06/10/03 09:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Twitch]

So, your saying it's unconstitutional for a parent to not allow a child to buy an Eminem album?

Or are you saying that the sticker somehow changes the content of the album? How does a sticker restrict free speech--especially if what the sticker says is true?


<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green> :tongue:

 

[daddywags214]

Are you (under-17) guys worried about this? I'm 16 and I've gotten into countless R rated movies, I've PURCHASED dozens of M-rated games without question. They won't enforce this. They don't have the means to enforce a law like this.

Tit for tat, butter for fat, ATi's dog kicks nVidia's cat

(Maximum PC)

 

[daddywags214]

Funny, we B*ITCH about "unconstitutional" laws like this, yet we still download games for free, stiffing the designers and distributors out of money. Hmm, which is worse?

Do any of you guys THINK of paying for your games?

Tit for tat, butter for fat, ATi's dog kicks nVidia's cat

(Maximum PC)

 

[jiffy]

Does that include GTA3? There wouldn’t be any violence toward the law enforcement officer if they would just let me joy ride. I can’t help I smear pedestrians some times, ok what if I stop backing up over them?

***************************************
When you feel that reality does not suit you, live a fantasy life.

 

[confoundicator]

LOL right! The law only applies to public law enforcement officers so innocent pedestrians are fair game! Also not included (and therefore fair game!) are bus drivers, soccer moms, religious figures, pets, software company executives, video store managers, prostitutes, and PC enthusiasts. Happy hunting!

Build a foolproof system and they'll build a better fool.

 

[Kronos]

The law is obviously pitched at ONE GAME TYPE!!!! THE GTA SERIES Baby!!!!!Buy em`...rent em` or steal em`...but get em` by any means necessary!!! Is this not America the land of FREE CHOICE????? A people who stand for nothing will fall for anything. I respect law enforcement that respects me first!

I want to die like my Grandfather...in my sleep...not screaming in terror like his passengers.

 

[nach]

I think the international community has their own regulators, such as in some countries they can only go via the net to get some of the more violent games, morally?

Maybe makers need to comply with the other countries game laws and intent more often.

Yes, there is a need to regulate, but only directly from the makers, like fix the packaging, box and intro screens and stick BIG warnings to em.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by nach on 06/19/03 09:15 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Twitch]

That's all well and good, but you didn't actually say anything....


<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green> :tongue:

 

[Kronos]

Very well...how many ways must I say the Political Lawmakers are working for the Police and not "We the people..."? The "We the people..." portion comes from the Constitution. A document drawn up by a few Liberal Farmers that guarateed what government couldn`t do in the first ten amendments or Bill of Rights. When government intercedes in such a ludicrous way as to limit a humans right to purchase video games, we have gone over the edge for responsible government and entered a Police State mentality the Founding Fathers most feared. In a free society, a shallow voter is the most dangerous weapon. That said, I believe a person has a right to be as shallow as they choose. I merely point out the inevitable consequence.

I want to die like my Grandfather...in my sleep...not screaming in terror like his passengers.

 

[HolyShiznit]

They still make rated-R movies, and they will still make mature games. Plus I can still buy them under that system. So no problems there.


<font color=blue>
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Guns kill people just like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
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[mrface]

I think violence is cool.

Regardless this law doesnt affect me but if it did. I could just buy the game off ebay.

no restrictions on that.

--You know, I think Paul Bryant was from the Netherlands.--

-=[ Addicted, Finally. ]=-

 

[kinney]

the ratings are made to satisfy the whiney liberals, something washington state is known for.
though both sides of the fence have been known hate on our industry.

your mega christian conservatives dont like our blood letting heathen games and the child loving bleeding heart liberal doesnt either.
but overall the liberals seem to enjoy trying to rob our businesses (microsoft especially, tobacco is a prime example) and not really helping out anyone but feeding their large coffers.. which they distribute around election time to whatever race, ethic group, interest or age group they think they need support from.

the systems a joke and i say we declare marshall law with me as warchief of the horde


Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[the_Prisoner]

Whiney liberals? Without liberals you would still have child labor, 16 hour work days, no enviromental controls, no health care, no workers rights and I could go on. I dont like ultra right either, they want to control what we read, view, write, personal acts and etc.

You as a Warchief? That would make you a dictator and I wouldnt want to live under your rule!

Pris

I'm not a number, I'm a free man!

 

[kinney]

things couldnt get any worse for you under my rule, you are already the prisoner.. right?

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[Gastrian]

Actually you Americans aren't entitled too free speech, your constitution says the government can't make any laws to prevent it (it's a subtle yet important difference). But even if you were entitled too free speech, washington isn't doing anything to prevent it. They're allowing the games companies too say and show whatever they feel like, they're just restricting the audience that is allowed to listen.

 

[kinney]

I assume your referring to this American institution-

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; <b>or abridging the freedom of speech,</b> or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That line DOES entitle us to free speech. They don't 'allow' anything, because WE are the government, if the elected officials try to stop us we'll vote them out.. and we will.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[Gastrian]

Depends how you read it. But anyway, the fine that washington is imposing isn't conflicting with it.

 

[confoundicator]

Other laws do impinge upon free speech though. Anything can be censored in most states that is considered objectionable by the community. These laws may not say they're censorship, but they restrict access like Gastrian said up there^. A good example is the Anarchist's Cookbook. If you've never heard of it I'm not surprised. It has instructions for making all kinds of dangerous stuff like homemade booby traps and such (one chapter is titled, "How to make LSD in the kitchen"). So of course my old college roommate had to have this book and no stores carried it <i>on their shelves</i>. But he <i>could</i> have the local bookstore special order it, and so he got his precious guide to spreading anarchy throughout the land.

The good news is that ultimately the constitution is honored and one can legally obtain stuff whether the government likes it or not.

The bad news is that access to that kind of stuff is generally restricted. But is it really bad news? There are lots of things that I wouldn't want my kids (if I had any) to be able to pick up at the corner store.

Either way there is no way in <i>hell</i> that any video game falls into this debate.

But that's just what I think.

<font color=blue>Build a foolproof system and they'll build a better fool.</font color=blue>