So, everyone is pumped about the nForce Chipset and rightly so. It is a sweet integrated solution. I just have a few comments and wanted to compare it to the SiS 735 as it seems clear the two will be the top AMD platforms for the majority of performance-minded users (ie no SMP'ers.) This is also my chance to throw out my thoughts about nForce...
nForce's main advantage over every chipset is two-fold:
1) The dual DDR channels. That is some serious memory bandwidth, especially with the crossbar controller effectively making it into one big channel. You'll see why this isn't as big an advantage as it seems, tho...
2) The DASP pre-fetch. An external HW pre-fetch obviously helps Tbirds quite a bit, who knows with A4's and with their own built-in prefetch??
So here is my first "criticism" of nForce or <font color=blue>at least something for everyone to chew on </font color=blue>(related to "advantage" #1):
A GF2MX with 133MHz DDR memory (same mem bus as nForce) has 2.7 GB/s of bandwidth. So, pretend the nForce were to have "static" bandwidth allocation. Then the GPU alone would use 2.7 GB/s of the 4.2 GB/s total available, right? Knowing that the GF2 (even MX) is bandwidth starved and the fact that nForce can "dynamically" alter bandwidth (using crossbar) it sounds more to me like nVidia <font color=red>HAD TO</font color=red> go with dual channel memory or they'd be screwing their GPU on memory bandwidth during 3D apps. Also, this leaves the CPU with less memory bandwidth leftover than 1 standard DDR channel!
Granted, during non-3D intense apps, the CPU alone has all that bandwidth to play with, which is probably what nVidia used when quoting their exceptional performance improvements. Dammit, I want Word to be faster!!!!! j/k, stuff like mpeg-2 and compilers that take minutes or more to complete would benefit greatly; but how many of you use these apps on a regular basis?
Then there's this: how many of you will be happy with a GF2MX vid card in October (or whenever nForce will be avail)?? I bet many of you have a better vid card <font color=red>now</font color=red>. So, put an external vid card in the AGP slot, and WHAM! the AGP 4x interface (~1 GB/s) is all of a sudden your bottleneck. (Or am I just wrong about the AGP bus limiting performance??) And you're paying for the GF2MX regardless (dual monitor would be sweet
The SiS735 enjoys a faster N->S bridge connection, which is more similar to the way an nForce with an AGP card would work. It even has concurrent access for multiple devices, which is what "streamthru" seems to be to me.
Seems to me, given the above video issues, the biggest advantage of nForce is the DASP. Given benchmarks on the following links, this does make a big difference. This just crossed my mind: nVidia probably felt they needed to include DASP due to the above possible bandwidth issue; it may have just turned out to work a lot better than they thought, or they decided to make it into a performance enhancer instead of equalizer.
Hope these are helpful:
<A HREF="http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/sis/735/index.shtml" target="_new">http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/sis/735/index.shtml</A>
<A HREF="http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/nvidia/nforce/" target="_new">http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/nvidia/nforce/</A>
I'm personally in a wait-and-see mode. I was looking at getting a new rig come fall anyway, so I just want to see if the nforce pans out. If it does, great, if not, no big deal. By then the SiS735 will have been out for long enough to iron out any problems anyway.
The ideal solution? The one-chip SiS735 (for faster N->S bridge) with dual crossbar-connected DDR channels and about AGP8x.
P.S. No one mentions OC'ing or BIOS details in any of these reviews. Wouldn't you all be pissed if you had to run your processors at rated speed?? <font color=orange>NOOOOOO</font color=orange>...maybe that's what the "strategic alliance" with AMD is all about...no more oc'ing
Please respond with your thoughts, and if I'm wrong on any details, please point it out
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by jem007 on 06/08/01 02:31 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
nForce's main advantage over every chipset is two-fold:
1) The dual DDR channels. That is some serious memory bandwidth, especially with the crossbar controller effectively making it into one big channel. You'll see why this isn't as big an advantage as it seems, tho...
2) The DASP pre-fetch. An external HW pre-fetch obviously helps Tbirds quite a bit, who knows with A4's and with their own built-in prefetch??
So here is my first "criticism" of nForce or <font color=blue>at least something for everyone to chew on </font color=blue>(related to "advantage" #1):
A GF2MX with 133MHz DDR memory (same mem bus as nForce) has 2.7 GB/s of bandwidth. So, pretend the nForce were to have "static" bandwidth allocation. Then the GPU alone would use 2.7 GB/s of the 4.2 GB/s total available, right? Knowing that the GF2 (even MX) is bandwidth starved and the fact that nForce can "dynamically" alter bandwidth (using crossbar) it sounds more to me like nVidia <font color=red>HAD TO</font color=red> go with dual channel memory or they'd be screwing their GPU on memory bandwidth during 3D apps. Also, this leaves the CPU with less memory bandwidth leftover than 1 standard DDR channel!
Granted, during non-3D intense apps, the CPU alone has all that bandwidth to play with, which is probably what nVidia used when quoting their exceptional performance improvements. Dammit, I want Word to be faster!!!!! j/k, stuff like mpeg-2 and compilers that take minutes or more to complete would benefit greatly; but how many of you use these apps on a regular basis?
Then there's this: how many of you will be happy with a GF2MX vid card in October (or whenever nForce will be avail)?? I bet many of you have a better vid card <font color=red>now</font color=red>. So, put an external vid card in the AGP slot, and WHAM! the AGP 4x interface (~1 GB/s) is all of a sudden your bottleneck. (Or am I just wrong about the AGP bus limiting performance??) And you're paying for the GF2MX regardless (dual monitor would be sweet
The SiS735 enjoys a faster N->S bridge connection, which is more similar to the way an nForce with an AGP card would work. It even has concurrent access for multiple devices, which is what "streamthru" seems to be to me.
Seems to me, given the above video issues, the biggest advantage of nForce is the DASP. Given benchmarks on the following links, this does make a big difference. This just crossed my mind: nVidia probably felt they needed to include DASP due to the above possible bandwidth issue; it may have just turned out to work a lot better than they thought, or they decided to make it into a performance enhancer instead of equalizer.
Hope these are helpful:
<A HREF="http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/sis/735/index.shtml" target="_new">http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/sis/735/index.shtml</A>
<A HREF="http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/nvidia/nforce/" target="_new">http://www.socketa.com/reviews/chipsets/nvidia/nforce/</A>
I'm personally in a wait-and-see mode. I was looking at getting a new rig come fall anyway, so I just want to see if the nforce pans out. If it does, great, if not, no big deal. By then the SiS735 will have been out for long enough to iron out any problems anyway.
The ideal solution? The one-chip SiS735 (for faster N->S bridge) with dual crossbar-connected DDR channels and about AGP8x.
P.S. No one mentions OC'ing or BIOS details in any of these reviews. Wouldn't you all be pissed if you had to run your processors at rated speed?? <font color=orange>NOOOOOO</font color=orange>...maybe that's what the "strategic alliance" with AMD is all about...no more oc'ing
Please respond with your thoughts, and if I'm wrong on any details, please point it out
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by jem007 on 06/08/01 02:31 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
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