P55T2P4 rev 2.3 and AMD K6-2: anyone know stuff?

[Guest]

heres my situation: ive got an asus p55t2p4 rev 2.3 and a k6-2 300, and after reading about the oldie tuning have tried to figure out if this combo will work..

1) will this older revision mobo even handle a k6-2?

2) the jumpers for setting the cpu core voltage arent exactly there, but there are the 'positions' for the jumpers-(looks same as later revisions, but without pins)- does anyone know if i would get the desired voltage result if i were to close the appropriate *jumpers* manually?

getting the right clock speed etc is not an issue, in theory it will go beyond 300mhz but i thought i better ask about the above issues before going any further.

have a nice day.

 

[Guest]

OK ive updated the bios and the board now seems to be a pseudo revision 3.x, but still without the imminent voltage jumpers.

hopefully this will help someone help me out.. or is everyone just sick of these P55T2P4 questions

 

[Crashman]

I'm sorry, but in all lieklyhood it can't be done. I beleive your motherboard revision only suports single-voltage processors, which means your core ovltage would be 3.3v This is far too high for the K6-2. Also, there are no proper jumper settings for the 300, the 2x=6x trick won't work with it. so even if you did have a newer revision, you would need a faster processor to take advantage of it (like a 400 at 6x66.6)

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[Guest]

sorry, i should have made it clear which voltage jumpers i was missing.. there is already the 3.3 / 3.5 voltage switch, whatever that ones called. thats fine. but then theres the other 4 or 5 jumpers that control the other cpu voltage, whatever you call that - they are the ones that are missing but not quite, so i was wondering whether installing those jumpers would really help anything.

maybe you already knew this but what the hell, i might as well keep trying to find the answer that im gonna like the most..

 

[Crashman]

Actually I had one in my second system up until a few months ago. And I am familiar with modifying motherboards. Unfortunately, this board does NOT have the resistors in place for the lower core voltages. So your stuck at 3.3v, or worse, 3.5v, core. You could solder in pins for the other jumpers, but that would not make a difference, because the resistors are still missing. Why would they include the resistors if they were not going to use them? When they eliminate one part of the circuit, they always eliminate as many other related parts as they can. So you cannot get 2.2v from this board. You would have to use a voltage converter adapter, which, at $50, cost as much as a more current motherboard.
So if you got a more current motherboard, you could use the 300 on it. As for older boards, the only multiplier you can get on them higher than 3.5x is 6x, using the 2x=6x trick, which means that even if you could modify the board, you would still be stuck using it at 3.5x (too slow), or 6x (too fast for the 300).
What am I saying? Unless you spend more on the motherboard than it's worth, you can't use it with that processor.
Just in case that didn't sink in, let me repeat it a few times:
Unless you spend more on the motherboard than it's worth, you can't use it with that processor.
Unless you spend more on the motherboard than it's worth, you can't use it with that processor.
Unless you spend more on the motherboard than it's worth, you can't use it with that processor.
Unless you spend more on the motherboard than it's worth, you can't use it with that processor.

Sorry to burst your bubble, and I'm not trying to rub your nose in it, just trying to help the facts sink in.

For around $100 you can get an overdrive processor that would work. For the same dough you could get a Duron with a motherboard. Do the math, and give it up before it turns into a obsession and drives you insane.



Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[Crashman]

Oh, I forgot to tell you, you COULD put all the apropriate parts in all the apropriate places, IF you knew what the parts were. Let the obsession begin-how much is your time worth?

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[Guest]

hehe, you certainly do have a way with cynicism. dont take that the wrong way of course, i was only trying to get some more info out of whoever was willing to give it to me. it seems you have done exactly that. i will now sell my old mobo to some freak and put the money towards some REAL parts.

thanks for the help, keep on chuggin'

 

[Crashman]

Just keeping it real.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[pike]

It`s 5 months latter but nonetheless her goes:
I have two P55T2P4 mb. one ver. 2.3 & one ver. 3.1
As previously stated the 2.3 ver. is a dead end, only single voltage and that`s the mb circuits.
However this truly is a legendary mb and also my first love,
(for mb) and for that reason i dished out ~250 $ for a "PowerLeap" cpu upgrade to k6-2 400. With the latest bios it worked fine. "PowerLeap" also have just a voltage regulater for a lot less $$$ Go see powerleap.com
For my version 3.1 i followed Tom's "Oldie Tuning" article with a k6-2 500+ overcloked at 83 FSB and WOW it really does work.
However , sentiments aside, if you still have the P55T2P4 2.3 you also have most certanly EDO ram. I would trade the EDO for pc-133, get a 100FSB mb socket 7 used (AT form) and perhaps you will find a K6-2 or k6-3.
Otherwise go for a ATX barebones sys with duron for a good performance price ratio.
Good luck

 

[Crashman]

For quite a while now, I've been putting K6-2's in systems that only support 2.8v for dual voltage. They work fine. I use oversized coolers to prevent overheating, such as Athlon/Duron/PIII coolers. So even though it's not normally recommended, I haven't seen any customer returns for fried processors. You could have saved a lot of money by simply using the 2.8v (or 2.5v, if you have it) setting and the 2x=6x multiplier conversion WITHOUT the powerleap converter!

Back to you Tom...

 

[pike]

Sometimes we learn the hard way or rather the expensive way ! But i had always been under the impression that you could not put a dual voltage processor in a single voltage mb. I guess that's where you're saying i'm wrong but only if i seriously cool down the cpu because of the extra watts. Well then next time i will post to you techkies out there before throwing my money to the first splashy hitech company i find. thanks for the info

 

[pike]

Sorry, writting before reading properly, not good.
You meant a 2.8 V ((Dual)) voltage mb. Ok.
The P55T2P4 rev. 2.3 is ((Single)) voltage and therefore has a 3.3 V setting for the core which is too much for the dual cpu and cannot be modified other than the aformentionned voltage adapter. I get it now! Das gut!

 

[Crashman]

I was under the impression that your Rev. 3.1 board was DUAL voltage, 3.3v/2.8v., which is what I've been using for upgrading old Pentium MMX systems to K6-2's. 2.8v is officially way to high, but hasn't caused me any problems.

On single voltage boards, such as the revision 2.3, I've been mounting the 2.8v MMX processor, because it's cheaper than the non-MMX, and because it supports 1.5x=3.5x conversion. That's right, I'm using 2.8v processors at 3.3v on old Pentium 100 systems to get them to 233! Again using good cooling.
Remember the old Socket 5 boards that did not have multiplier adjustments, and could only be set to run a P75, P90, or P100? Those WILL WORK with a P-233-MMX, as long as it's well cooled.

So the K6-2 works fine on nearly any dual voltage mobo, even if that voltage is too high (2.8v). Certain mobo's don't like it, most accept it fine.

And the P-MMX processor works on all motherboards, even single voltage units with no multiplier adjustment, using 3.3v instead of 2.8v, and 1.5x=3.5x!

So noone has an excuse to be stuck with anything slower than 233, unless they are using a pre-socket5 system.

Back to you Tom...

 

[pike]

Yes yes the P55T2P4 rev. 3.1 is DUAL voltage and the rev.
2.3 is indeed SINGLE voltage.
I`m using both of these mb at the moment and as mentioned earlier the rev. 3.1 is set up with a K6-2 500+ as per instructed in the "Oldie Tuning" guide. However the rev. 2.3 has only at the moment a P-133. Having had in my posession a P-233 MMX and sold it cheap I am disappointed not having known it could work at 3.3V with proper cooling.
That is to say in a single voltage mb.
Where I am: near Ottawa, Canada, a used P-233 MMX sells, from a pc shop, $55 can or ~1.58 x 55= $32 us. I might still try it if I find a good price on a p-233 MMX. About the cooling I have never had to use thermal paste, but would this be indicated here and how much $ should go towards the fan. A general purpuse fan would be best, being able to be reused in a different socket system as Duron/Athlon, is this not correct ? Lastly: any tips for the use of thermal paste ?

Thanks again for the helpfull input

 

[Crashman]

Why not put the Powerleap adapter in the Rev. 2.3 motherboard and use a standard K6-2 in the Rev. 3.1 motherboard?
<A HREF="http://www.asus.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/pentium/p55t2p4/p55t2p4-jumper.html" target="_new">http://www.asus.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/pentium/p55t2p4/p55t2p4-jumper.html</A>
Shows that you can set core voltage as low as 2.5v. You could EASILY put a K6-2 500 in it and run it at that voltage. The K6-2 EASILY handles 2.5v core, as I said I often use a 2.8v core with them. In fact certain AMD processors have had a 2.3v core or even 2.4v core, using the same core.
So I would put the Powerleap adapter on the earlier motherboard and put a K6-2 500 on the 3.1 board, using 2x multiplier, since it's internally converted to 6x by the CPU. Since 2x=6x, you can get 6x83.3=500! Using an Athlon/Duron/P3 cooler will insure longevity.
I have used several different Athlon/PIII coolers on Socket 7 systems. My personal favorite is the retail Intel large cooler, because it's so quiet. But I've used generic Athlon coolers, Coolermaster units, etc, without problem. All of these are just a little overkill for a Socket 7, which makes them perfect for a Socket 7 overvoltage.
If you still want to simply use the old board with a P-233-MMX at 3.3v, any midsized K6-2/Celeron cooler will do.

Back to you Tom...

 

[NickM]

Please, give some reference or more details on what is simpler good enough cooling solution for a severely overcooked P233MMX. Want to try this a-dual-voltage-CPU-on-a-single-voltage-mobo project also. Just to learn how to get the result.

Found at least something to start reading from: <A HREF="http://www.overclockercafe.com/Articles/Home Grown 80mm HSF/home grown 80mm.html" target="_new">http://www.overclockercafe.com/Articles/Home Grown 80mm HSF/home grown 80mm.html</A>

Oh, I see, I've already got the answer. Thanks.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by NickM on 11/11/01 07:01 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

It's really quite simple. I use those cheap K6 coolers for the P-233-MMX at 3.3v. If you want to overclock it really far, you can try the 3.45v "VRE" setting with an Athlon cooler. The should do around 300MHz.

Back to you Tom...

 

[pike]

In fact that is exactly where the PowerLeap K6-2 400 went for it`s first home (the P55T2P4 ver. 2.3 single voltage).
As surprising as it might be, this still good cpu/adapter combo is now in a true dinosaur. It resides in a Digital Dec Celebris xl-133 dual processor socket 5 system with onboard NCR scsi controler. Could not find a bios for the AMD but Win98 SE recognizes the K6 400 and nonetheless the
system boots perfectly and of course is very much faster.
The dilemma is if I return the PowerLeap K6 400 to the p55t2p4 ver 2.3, WHAT DO I DO WITH A DIGITAL DUAL SOCKET 5 SCSI DINOSAUR ? 2.2meg scsi hd, matutisha scsi 4x cd, 300w ps, big case & fan ? Of couse "at" formfactor case.
Thinking of an allonboard with SCSI "at" SS7 mb, 100 mhz FSB. The reason for SS7 rather than the older socket 7 is to benefit from the faster and cheaper pc-100/133 SDRAM compared to my EDO.
Am I barking at the wrong tree or something ??????

 

[Crashman]

OK, so let's see what we have. A DEC Dual Pentium board, a Version 2.3 and a version 3.2 P55T2P4, some slower Pentium chips, only ONE K6-2, and only one voltage adapter.
You could buy two Petium 233 MMX chips for the DEC and run them at 3.3v. Then you could buy another K6-2.
I actually have all the parts you need! I have three unlocked Pentium 200 MMX chips that go easily to 233. I have a bunch of coolers (I buy the midsized coolers bulk, just for that purpose). And I have some large coolers (for the K6-2).
If you want to use a K6-2+ or K6-3+ (low voltage CPU's), you can use that on the powerleap adapter and put it in the single voltage board, then put your standard K6-2 in the dual voltage board at 2.5v (or even 2.7v or 2.8v, as long as it's cooled properly). If your getting a standard K6-2 500, I would put that in the dual-voltage board at 2.5v, because some of these are 2.3v or 2.4v to begin with. Basically, put the lowest voltage K6-x on the adapter, on the single-voltage board, and the higher voltage K6-x on the newer board at 2.5v.
So you can't find the parts locally. I could work out something for you. Usually I can mail things directly to people in Canada and get them through untaxed. After all, I am your cousin, and Chistmas is on the way.


Back to you Tom...

 

[pike]

A few things to consider, I believe.
- How can you install a socket 7 pentium cpu in a socket 5 ?
I must really have to do some more reading if this is
possible !
- With what os would a dualy sys work best, what apps, what
games (opps ).
- Dos anyone know if the chipset of the Dec Celebris Xl 133
supports a dual config of two p-200 MMX since the
documentation mentions 133 as the max ? Remenber it's
socket 5 !
- There's a jumper setting issue for the cpu speed (I
think the Dec mb only goes 2 x 66 = 133
- Would the dual option be as good regarding performance
vs value compared to a SS7 mb with 100mhz FSB and
pc-100 SDRAM rather than EDO and of course a K6-2 400.
Obviously in the present case I already have the mb : Dec
Celebris XL 133.
This Celebris dual sys is from 1994/95 and I beleive was
intended as a server under Win NT.
Lastly, any extra info about a similar dual setup would be greatly appreciated.

MY first pc was a vic 20, ha !

 

[Crashman]

-While the K6-2 has an extra pin that fits only Socket 7, the Pentium MMX does not have this pin. The Pentium MMX has the socket 5 arrangement but is called a Socket 7 processor because it is supposed to have dual voltage. You can take me at my word on this, I've been putting Pentium MMX processors in Socket 5 for quite some time now.
-As long as the processors are SMP compatable, they should work.
-1.5x=3.5x with the Pentium MMX, so you would set them at 100MHz to get 233. The number reported in BIOS for speed will vary depending on the CPU table in BIOS.
-I wouldn't bother with SS7, since you could get a duron and ECS K7S5A for the same price as a SS7 and K6-2.
-Information on dual Pentium systems is in short supply!

One last note-your K6-2 400 would work without the adapter on your revision 3.2 motherboard at 2.5v (or even 2.7 or 2.8v). Whatever you end up doing, you should put the Powerleap converter on the single voltage board, since that would be required to operate a K6-2 on it. Remember that for the K6-2, 2x=6x, and for the Pentium MMX, 1.5x=3.5x.
I recommend getting another K6-x series processor for your P55T2P4 motherboards. Whichever has the lowest voltage goes on the older board, since that will have the Powerleap adapter.


What's the frequency, Kenneth?

 

[pike]

Thanks a million, Crashman, for the info and all.
Still would like to keep the Dec server case with the 300W power supply, but it is set up for AT mbs power demands, is'nt that 12V /5V and ATX is different, right ?
I was told you can sometimes "convert" a AT case to accept a ATX mb but is'nt that asking for trouble ?
Has anyone done this ?
Thanks again, getting a better picture of what i can do with my outdated stuff

 

[Crashman]

Several companies such as Gateway used "convertable" cases that had a replacable back pannel. Others used a standard plug. AT/ATX power supplies are the same size. It is possible to chip a hole in the back of a case and use it for ATX as long as the hole doesn't interfere with the power supply and there's otherwise room for it. YOu would have to use spacers to keep the top half of the motherobard for getting grounded, and switch power supplies/switches. What ATX board were you looking at?

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

 

[pike]

I find the fully integrated mbs very interesting pieces of hardware. I Know some people would say "[-peep-]" instead of hardware, but it makes sense in a way to put everything posssible in the circuitry once the board starts to go down the production line. Less handling, less manhours, less packaging etc etc. The down side : less upgradability, but only parly true when you can deactivate the onboard circuits.
It must be nice to say "Whow i got this new board and all i have to do is plug it in, all is onboard and at less than have the price of a similar non integrated sys".
I,m still not sure of the performance HIT you get however!
Anyway, around Ottawa up here, we have the:
-MSI 6378 K7 VIA (TNT 2 shared memory)
-ECS K7VMA (S3 Savage 4 shared memory)
-PcChips M754/758 (TNT 2)
On this forum i was told the MSI is way to slow, even with Athlon 1.4. Hard to undestand ??? Also advised against the PcChips mbs because of quality issues.
Well leaves us with the ECS K7VMA.
The upcoming MSI Nforce is also very attractive, but we might be getting out of the econo class here, right ?
All this is academic, however, if i don't resolve first this mb POS wiring difference between AT and ATX.
AT = 12 wires for 2 sockets vs ATX 10 wires with 1 socket.
The power swithch thing might be easyer to fix up.
Will have to wait and get more info, these things never stop... You buy a car, you don't upgrade it every 6 months, if not 4...There sould be a Law so that next generation harware or software can be put on the market only once every 2 years...just a thought but we are wiser than that, right

 

[Crashman]

When you use an ATX mobo, you need an ATX power supply. They have the same housing as AT power supplies and fit AT cases. But unless you have a convertable case, you'll need to modify it to fit an ATX mobo.
I wouldn't advise anyone to get any kind of integrated video to save money-a cheap $30 video card can go a long way toward making the entire system perform better. Take a look at the ECS K7S5A, and look around for a cheap video card to put in it. I think even the old Riva 128ZX would outperform most onboard video, simply because it has it's own memory. That card should go for around $15.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?